Save Our Sides Protest Rally - SUN 05FEB11

[galahs]

Name change in order

Sydney Basin Cat Birds :slight_smile:

With a new homeground to be build at the midway point from Leichhardt to Campbelltown?

we'll call it the "Oasis" and get Liverpool Council on board

 

[galahs]

All I was demonstrating is the multiple reasons why people from Wests feel disenchanted over the Joint Venture.

If you are not from the Macarthur, or not a long term Magpie supporter, I don't expect you to understand how certain people feel.
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As for not being called Balmain… Wests and Balmain BOTH agreed to that in 1999

As for the 2 Magpies on the shoulders... Wests and balmain BOTH agreed to that in 1999

As for the Tiger logo on the Chest... Wests and Balmain BOTH agreed to that in 1999

As for having two seperate NSW Cup teams... Wests and Balmain BOTH agreed to that in 1999

They also agreed that Leichhardt and Campbelltown should receive the same amount of games right?

yep. Mate if it was 6 at LO and 6 at CSS I think everyone would be happy with that.

 

[galahs]

WT jersey designs and location of the magpie is not mentioned in your OP, and you mention nothing about the plight of the juniors in the Macarthur first post. It's quite obvious that the region doesn't want to lose their identity as the Magpies, but as per your OP, that's not the root cause of this rally.

Make up your mind on what you want, and clearly dictate what your demands are because it's quite obvious there are other motives at hand for this rally other than what you originally stated. The cynicism you're receiving here is due to the fact that you're not being forthright. Enough of the smoke & mirrors…

YOU ARE 1 MILLION PERCENT CORRECT!!!!!

It isn't part of the rally. But it is part of the reason people are not fully embracing this joint venture.
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I don't know what smoke and mirrors you are accusing me of mate. I have clearly stated what I would like to see. A return to a 50:50 fair go. That's all. :sign:

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Name change in order

Sydney Basin Cat Birds :slight_smile:

I imagine our mascot would look a little something like this:


 

[underdog]

Why we feel let down in pictures…..

8 games in the inner city, 4 in the South West

The proud Magpies on the Shoulders....

became the vanishing Magpie on the cuff of the sleeve...

the main jersey has a distinct Balmain feel yet the alternative jersey is a nothing design

Why do Magpies have to play for Balmain to get a chance at making the Wests Tigers teams...

Maybe if the Wests side felt like they were being treated fairly, there would be greater support for a joint venture Wests Tigers team in the NSW Cup.

Maybe the Wests Tigers should have done a better job at selling it to us... not dictating terms.

To quote the famous Magpie legend Noel Kelly... "time and time again the Wests side gets the rough end of the stick"

Wow… That post is in stark contrast to the following:

**OUR FAIR DEMANDS INCLUDE**
>
- Wests Tigers need a greater presense in the area. Plans need to be in place for a full time relocation of their HQ to the region as was the original plan back when the joint venture was formed.
>
- We need a fully funded NSW Cup side to provide a stepping stone for our kids to NRL
>
- We need professionally run District Competition for the Wests Junior district area
>
- Teams need to be able to train and play on grounds of their own choosing
>
- More than 4 NRL games a year at Campbelltown Stadium
>
- More junior development programs for our kids

WT jersey designs and location of the magpie is not mentioned in your OP, and you mention nothing about the plight of the juniors in the Macarthur first post. It's quite obvious that the region doesn't want to lose their identity as the Magpies, but as per your OP, that's not the root cause of this rally.

Make up your mind on what you want, and clearly dictate what your demands are because it's quite obvious there are other motives at hand for this rally other than what you originally stated. The cynicism you're receiving here is due to the fact that you're not being forthright. Enough of the smoke & mirrors...

:master:

BURN.

It's exactly what i have thought about this ordeal for the whole time I have heard of it, and done my research into it - A thinly veiled "Why doesn't anybody think of the children!" argument when its becoming clearer that its really a "HEY MAGPIES BRO!" MAGPIES!" argument. The people closer to the argument than I that I have spoken to have not been able to sufficiently indulge me with a straight answer either.

simple question - if the show was on the other foot - e.g we were called the "Wests Magpies" would their still be a protest?

The answer is of course no - the juniors wouldn't come into it then - It looks like a plight for sympathy to me.

The answer here guys is simple:

ONE ADMINISTRATION.
ONE TEAM.
ONE NAME.
ONE FUTURE.

Acknowledge the past, but **don't** live in it.

FORGE a future as ONE team, not two.
:sign: :sign: :sign:

 

[galahs]

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Eaxactly! :laughing:

 

[galahs]

simple question - if the show was on the other foot - e.g we were called the "Wests Magpies" would their still be a protest?

The answer is of course no - the juniors wouldn't come into it then - It looks like a plight for sympathy to me.

have we ever, ever stated the cause is to get the Magpies back in the NRL????

No

have we ever ever said we are against making the the Joint Venture work?

No

Have we ever said the Wests Tigers is not the way of the future?

No

So what are you arguing again? :wtf

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Why we feel let down in pictures…..

8 games in the inner city, 4 in the South West

The proud Magpies on the Shoulders....

became the vanishing Magpie on the cuff of the sleeve...

the main jersey has a distinct Balmain feel yet the alternative jersey is a nothing design

Why do Magpies have to play for Balmain to get a chance at making the Wests Tigers teams...

Maybe if the Wests side felt like they were being treated fairly, there would be greater support for a joint venture Wests Tigers team in the NSW Cup.

Maybe the Wests Tigers should have done a better job at selling it to us... not dictating terms.

To quote the famous Magpie legend Noel Kelly... "time and time again the Wests side gets the rough end of the stick"

Wow… That post is in stark contrast to the following:

**OUR FAIR DEMANDS INCLUDE**
>
- Wests Tigers need a greater presense in the area. Plans need to be in place for a full time relocation of their HQ to the region as was the original plan back when the joint venture was formed.
>
- We need a fully funded NSW Cup side to provide a stepping stone for our kids to NRL
>
- We need professionally run District Competition for the Wests Junior district area
>
- Teams need to be able to train and play on grounds of their own choosing
>
- More than 4 NRL games a year at Campbelltown Stadium
>
- More junior development programs for our kids

WT jersey designs and location of the magpie is not mentioned in your OP, and you mention nothing about the plight of the juniors in the Macarthur first post. It's quite obvious that the region doesn't want to lose their identity as the Magpies, but as per your OP, that's not the root cause of this rally.

Make up your mind on what you want, and clearly dictate what your demands are because it's quite obvious there are other motives at hand for this rally other than what you originally stated. The cynicism you're receiving here is due to the fact that you're not being forthright. Enough of the smoke & mirrors...

:master:

BURN.

It's exactly what i have thought about this ordeal for the whole time I have heard of it, and done my research into it - A thinly veiled "Why doesn't anybody think of the children!" argument when its becoming clearer that its really a "HEY MAGPIES BRO!" MAGPIES!" argument. The people closer to the argument than I that I have spoken to have not been able to sufficiently indulge me with a straight answer either.

simple question - if the show was on the other foot - e.g we were called the "Wests Magpies" would their still be a protest?

The answer is of course no - the juniors wouldn't come into it then - It looks like a plight for sympathy to me.

The answer here guys is simple:

ONE ADMINISTRATION.
ONE TEAM.
ONE NAME.
ONE FUTURE.

Acknowledge the past, but **don't** live in it.

FORGE a future as ONE team, not two.
:sign: :sign: :sign:

imo the juniors issue is the only thing that matters out of all of this

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

As long as that remains the message GNR… This thread is degenerating into other issues that aren't valid and named in particular by the person whom started the thread, which is giving the impression that there are other root issues that are at hand, veiled under the guise of the classic Helen Lovejoy manoeuvre.

 

[galahs]

If you don't think the issues of being a 50:50 joint venture are not one and the same, you miss the whole point of the Rally.

We want a fair go.

Why is that so hard to understand?

its like talking to a brick wall :brick:

 

[system]

The issue of the satate of the Junior RL in the Macarthur is not ited to the issue of more games and a Magpies State Cup team.

The issue of the juniors is about the total and utter failure that is the Western Suburbs Junior Rugby League. They have had 25 years to establish a clear devlopment avenue, strong competition and community connection and have done none of that.

2012 marks the first year of the Wests Tigers being directly linked administrating some of the junior system in the Macarthur and before a ball has been kicked the complaints start.

This rally should have occured two years + ago.

The main issue of the rally seems to be wanting a State Cup team named the Magpies with WT players and wanting more games at CSS.

If this rally were really about junior football I would be there with zero hesitation

 

[galahs]

Mate where do local kids go who play for the Wests Magpies in SG Ball when they turn 19 if they don't get a Wests Tigers contract…..........
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Tell me how our argument is not about the juniors.
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our argument is also about the state of the game in the South West.

the junior league...
the train and play rule...
the lack of games at Campbelltown
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Did I not state all that in the first post?

 

[system]

Play in a WT branded Bundy Cup side based out of CSS as I have previously suggested should be the answer to this issue.

Instead of looking at the big picture and suggesting this as a compromise position to having a WT branded State Cup side based out of Concord the board of Wests decided it was a wiser move to publicly court Canberra and St George and try to slap WT around publicly by soing so.

Now we will have a Bundy Cup team of players not quite there in the Concord Burwood Wolves which is a silly situation and one that could have been easliy manouvered to the favour of the Macarthur region but was thrown away by the all or nothing gamble of the football club still stuck in the raffle ticket/sausage sizzle fund raising mentality

 

[Knuckles]

Selfish rusted on Magpie supporters hey !!!
I think thats a bit harsh.

For those of us that went through the dark years 1983 - 1985 …. it looked for all money that the end of the road had come then. It was only through having Rick Wayde in charge that Wests were able to get through those years. Plus the fact if Campbelltown wasn't in need of a Rugby League we would have been gone back then as well. In addition to that, how we survived through the Super League years I don't know either. We were the worst in almost all facets on the Leagues criteria to remain in the competition. If it wasn't for Balmain, we would have next to no identity as Canterbury would have taken us over and done everything to favour the Bulldogs.

So for those now claiming about the identity of the Magpies and considering where we have been in the last 30 years, I am more than happy and indeed very grateful to see a team named Wests still in the big time albeit known as Wests Tigers. There is enough "Wests" in the Wests Tigers to keep me happy ..... ie name, magpie on the sleeve, colours etc.

My belief was always that the Magpies died when they agreed to merge in July 1999\. Seeing them in a competition with the likes of Wentworthville, Windsor etc was very demeaning to a once great club. You could argue they weren't dead as they were still playing but the reality is they were merely on a life support system ....... that life support system being Wests Ashfield Leagues Club.

The only part about the march I agree with is getting a better deal for the Macarthur region in terms of a better junior league and more input from Wests Tigers. There is no doubt in my mind 4 NRL games is not enough if they really want to embrace the region and for the people to embrace them. The junior league has not been managed well by Wests Magpies in the 25 years they have been up there. They seemed to have got everyone offside. That needs to be fixed. Hopefully having new people on the new board will help fix those old animosties that have gone on for too long.

The threat posed by GWS and Aussie Rules is not something to be taken lightly. As we have not claimed the Macarthur heartland, it is still very much open to whoever wants to move in on it. I don't think it will be another NRL club but the Aussie Rules threat is very real. I think this is the real reason why Ashfield has decided to move. Hopefully Wests Tigers will see this and move quickly to improve relationships and address the real issues of the Macarthur Region. When its all said and done, the future of the Wests Tigers is the Macarthur Region not the inner west.

Great post Bob…yes I agree....it is demeaning in a way

They had Tommy on 2KYs Sports Sunday yesterday morning...he said he played from 69 and coached up til 99...and in all the time he was there it was such a proud terrific club but with an admin that had absolutely no idea, no clue..were useless....something my dad would mutter to himself whenever we'd drive past the club when I was a kid.

I knew you would be able to relate Ink as we both lived through the same era. You're old man and my old man both said the same thing. Club secretary's like Gary Russell, Ray Berlusconi and Martin Bullock were all well intentioned but just didn't have what it takes to make a club successful. I don't think any Rugby League fan should have to go through what we went through. The heartbreak of having your team kicked out, all your players leaving for other clubs, seeing them run last every year. I reckon if the JV didn't come along and we were still in first grade, we'd be still running last or close to it. Remember we had our own version of todays protest with the fetes in Burwood Park, the Save the Magpies concert at Lidcombe Oval with Dragon, The Radiators etc and the dinner with Neville Wran at Ashfield and the Hawke in the Magpies nest dinner with Bob Hawke. All those things helped to save the club and we were part of that.

I think the boys who are marching have two separate issues that shouldnt be confused. The Wests Magpies identity being one and the Rugby League issue in the Macarthur region being the other. I don't believe the Macarthur region has ever been able to relate to Wests Magpies hence haven't embraced the club like say the fans up at Newcastle do with the Knights. They'd be better off calling it Macarthur Magpies with a pathway to Wests Tigers. A new area needs a new beginning and thats where Wests Magpies fell down when they arrived in 1987 because they didn't want to conform to the needs of the locals …..... they wanted to run things the way they were when the boundaries were from Ashfield to Granville. Thats why I believe Wests Tigers should be in there running the junior league in conjunction with the locals. I don't think WT have done enough and that maybe because of the hold that Ashfield has had on it for all these years. The unfortunate thing for the region is they have no money ..... sure they have the juniors but its the money that counts which is where WT come in. If they had the corporate backing, they could have their own version of a Newcastle Knights and have 12 matches every year and embrace the whole area ........ but they can't do that unless a Nathan Tinkler comes along.

So I wish the boys goodluck in their march and its good to see passionate rugby league people getting off
their backsides and speaking up for what they believe. If the upshot is a greater WT presence or an improved local league, then I think you will have contributed to the long term success of Rugby League in the Macarthur Region and the Wests Tigers.

 

[Yossarian]

Mate where do local kids go who play for the Wests Magpies in SG Ball when they turn 19 if they don't get a Wests Tigers contract…..........
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Tell me how our argument is not about the juniors.
\
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our argument is also about the state of the game in the South West.

the junior league...
the train and play rule...
the lack of games at Campbelltown
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Did I not state all that in the first post?

A page ago you were talking about the size of the magpie on the WT sleeve and the colour of the jumpers.

 

[galahs]

Play in a WT branded Bundy Cup side based out of CSS as I have previously suggested should be the answer to this issue.

Instead of looking at the big picture and suggesting this as a compromise position to having a WT branded State Cup side based out of Concord the board of Wests decided it was a wiser move to publicly court Canberra and St George and try to slap WT around publicly by soing so.

Now we will have a Bundy Cup team of players not quite there in the Concord Burwood Wolves which is a silly situation and one that could have been easliy manouvered to the favour of the Macarthur region but was thrown away by the all or nothing gamble of the football club still stuck in the raffle ticket/sausage sizzle fund raising mentality

if we are unabe to field a NSW Cup side, a Bundy Cup side whilst not ideal should be considered as a potential option. It would fullfill the need for a senior rep side in the area.

It still doesn't fix the lack of games at Campbelltown and the junior League issues though.

 

[galahs]

Mate where do local kids go who play for the Wests Magpies in SG Ball when they turn 19 if they don't get a Wests Tigers contract…..........
\
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Tell me how our argument is not about the juniors.
\
\
our argument is also about the state of the game in the South West.

the junior league...
the train and play rule...
the lack of games at Campbelltown
\
\
Did I not state all that in the first post?

A page ago you were talking about the size of the magpie on the WT sleeve and the colour of the jumpers.

As an explanantion why Wests fans feel alienated from the Joint Venture.
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mate if the Magpie on the sleeve was left alone…
the wests tigers at least stated a solid timeline of when we will get 6 games a year back at Campbelltown
Magpies weren't forced to play for balmain whilst the negotiations were going on
and we were offered to play as the Magpies in the Bundy Cup out of Campbelltown
we most likely wouldn't be talking about most of these issues now

 

[Yossarian]

Play in a WT branded Bundy Cup side based out of CSS as I have previously suggested should be the answer to this issue.

Instead of looking at the big picture and suggesting this as a compromise position to having a WT branded State Cup side based out of Concord the board of Wests decided it was a wiser move to publicly court Canberra and St George and try to slap WT around publicly by soing so.

Now we will have a Bundy Cup team of players not quite there in the Concord Burwood Wolves which is a silly situation and one that could have been easliy manouvered to the favour of the Macarthur region but was thrown away by the all or nothing gamble of the football club still stuck in the raffle ticket/sausage sizzle fund raising mentality

if we are unabe to field a NSW Cup side, a Bundy Cup side whilst not ideal should be considered as a potential option. It would fullfill the need for a senior rep side in the area.

It still doesn't fix the lack of games at Campbelltown and the junior League issues though.

Probably because having a senior 'rep' team in Macarthur never had much, if anything, to do with the level of junior particpation in the area.

 

[system]

if we are unabe to field a NSW Cup side, a Bundy Cup side whilst not ideal should be considered as a potential option. It would fullfill the need for a senior rep side in the area.

It still doesn't fix the lack of games at Campbelltown and the junior League issues though.

It should have been considered at the time the joint State Cup team was floated as an idea.

There was leverage and bargaining position which has now been destroyed by the utter incompetence of the previous board of Wests. They took the "my way or the highway" attitude again and lost out AGAIN. I hope new blood to the board will change this terrible attitude but I have severe doubts. Rather than approach the idea of Bundy Cup they publicly courted two ther NRL clubs. If that doesn't say to WT that they are more interested in the Magpies than Wests Tigers than I don't know what does

On the topic of junior leagues I would like to see WT take over the management of both junior leagues so as to build a stronger relationship much earlier in the development process.

As for the games at CSS it is not financially viable at this time as WT needs the guaranteed income of the SCG Trust contract for right now.

The WT admin team gave us an extra game each at the traditional venues and that was a massive step forward. The next step will happen when it is deemed finacially viable and sustainable. Is it the perfect situation? No. It is what we have for right now though

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

WT jersey designs and location of the magpie is not mentioned in your OP, and you mention nothing about the plight of the juniors in the Macarthur first post. It's quite obvious that the region doesn't want to lose their identity as the Magpies, but as per your OP, that's not the root cause of this rally.

Make up your mind on what you want, and clearly dictate what your demands are because it's quite obvious there are other motives at hand for this rally other than what you originally stated. The cynicism you're receiving here is due to the fact that you're not being forthright. Enough of the smoke & mirrors…

YOU ARE 1 MILLION PERCENT CORRECT!!!!!

It isn't part of the rally. But it is part of the reason people are not fully embracing this joint venture.
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I don't know what smoke and mirrors you are accusing me of mate. I have clearly stated what I would like to see. A return to a 50:50 fair go. That's all. :sign:

Those issues are not part of this rally, then why are they being brought up? You're confusing the issues and giving off the impression there is other motives behind this rally.

There's always going to be some who aren't happy with the way things are (this is not a shot at you Galahs, just a generalisation on society itself.) Even if this is all addressed and rectified some still won't be happy. We'll probably end up with arguments about how there should be exactly a 50/50 share between Wests and Balmain juniors in the FG side. Where does it end?