OFFICIAL SG Ball Cup

Another interesting observation was Siotame Havea Jr played the first 25-30 mins of the 1st half at hooker before moving into lock.

1. He is much better defensively & in contact than Brooklyn Milford, so this may be part of the reason, but ...

2. I wonder whether this is a directive from the Wests Tigers to start adding to his versatility as a future lock/hooker option (as future relief for Jared Haywood as the planned successor to Api).

@jrtiger @poopy_diaper be keen to hear your thoughts on the pod this week about this?
 
Another interesting observation was Siotame Havea Jr played the first 25-30 mins of the 1st half at hooker before moving into lock.

1. He is much better defensively & in contact than Brooklyn Milford, so this may be part of the reason, but ...

2. I wonder whether this is a directive from the Wests Tigers to start adding to his versatility as a future lock/hooker option (as future relief for Jared Haywood as the planned successor to Api).

@jrtiger @poopy_diaper be keen to hear your thoughts on the pod this week about this?
we might know more around 5pm when these SG Ball teamlists come out mate, but from my perspective I think it was to do with Lakeman wanting to get his best pack on the field and assigning positions later. for mine Taai is a middle, not a backrower, and therefore you had to get him into that centre corridor any way he could.

the Koroisau succession plan for mine would involve starting Haywood and running with Josese Lanyon off the bench in a Brandon Smith @ Melbourne-style role with Havea either starting at 13 or on the pine. naturally a lot to play out between now and then so no point making teamlists in prediction.
 
we might know more around 5pm when these SG Ball teamlists come out mate, but from my perspective I think it was to do with Lakeman wanting to get his best pack on the field and assigning positions later. for mine Taai is a middle, not a backrower, and therefore you had to get him into that centre corridor any way he could.

the Koroisau succession plan for mine would involve starting Haywood and running with Josese Lanyon off the bench in a Brandon Smith @ Melbourne-style role with Havea either starting at 13 or on the pine. naturally a lot to play out between now and then so no point making teamlists in prediction.
Yeah you're probably right there.

It's a tough call when you have a premium lock in Havea Jr at your disposal and also a very good lock with plenty of upside in Peter Ta'ai, both whom can play long minutes.

Ideally Josese Lanyon does keep progressing to be that person but jeez Havea Jr is some talent, ideal lock for us moving forward but can play dummy half, small middle or in the halves at a pinch.
 
Yeah you're probably right there.

It's a tough call when you have a premium lock in Havea Jr at your disposal and also a very good lock with plenty of upside in Peter Ta'ai, both whom can play long minutes.

Ideally Josese Lanyon does keep progressing to be that person but jeez Havea Jr is some talent, ideal lock for us moving forward but can play dummy half, small middle or in the halves at a pinch.
yeah I think Siotame's more of a 6 than he is a 9. he could develop in both positions as a utility of sorts but he's far and away a better lock than he is any of those options, including as a utility.

I'd be grooming Lanyon for that 9 / 13 hybrid role for mine.
 
yeah I think Siotame's more of a 6 than he is a 9. he could develop in both positions as a utility of sorts but he's far and away a better lock than he is any of those options, including as a utility.

I'd be grooming Lanyon for that 9 / 13 hybrid role for mine.
110% Jrtiger with your assesment of Siotame, very good footballer.
 
Another interesting observation was Siotame Havea Jr played the first 25-30 mins of the 1st half at hooker before moving into lock.

1. He is much better defensively & in contact than Brooklyn Milford, so this may be part of the reason, but ...

2. I wonder whether this is a directive from the Wests Tigers to start adding to his versatility as a future lock/hooker option (as future relief for Jared Haywood as the planned successor to Api).

@jrtiger @poopy_diaper be keen to hear your thoughts on the pod this week about this?
Has an excellent skill set for a lock, however he needs a lot of growing to be a viable option at NRL level (even in the days of smaller mobile forwards)
 
Yeah I think that has been a big issue for the side across the first few rounds. I've had a busy week so have only watched the game fully focused on it up until halftime, hopefully the rest tonight.

But my observations from the first few rounds of Wests ...

- Discipline (both penalties & handling errors) has been very poor and once the opposition team has momentum, it is hard to stem (especially in the heat faced in Sydney the past few week, very sapping when retreating constantly).

- Yes left side as you have summarised B2TL, very poor defensively.

- They don't seem connected as a group on the field (hard to put finger on it watching on Bar TV).

This week against Balmain, I really want them to show hunger & intensity as a group, a way to open up the right side in attack with weapons Godinet & Glassie and a much much much better discipline.
I’ve been watching Glassie for a few years now, and it only occurred to me on the weekend - as a footballer, the blokes a dead set clone of Jesse Ramien 🤷‍♂️
 
Finished off watching the Magpies loss to the Rabbits in SG Ball last night.

Two things ... discipline both in penalties & errors and dubious ref calls cost us in the end!

Just after half-time, we hit the lead when Havea Jr showed strength & determination to go over. This was not long after we were on the attack and the ref called a forward pass (which looked flat at worst).

Then the turning point, Araon Paea produced a team-lifting try-saving cover tackle into touch on the Souths winger a few metres out. Unfortunately what looked like only Josh Vella pulling a Souths player out of the ensuing pack, he was penalised and next set Souths score on that same wing when Vella went in on a player Glassie had already covered leaving his man open.

In the next 10 mins, we gifted them yardage with penalties (some again very dubious). a sin bin for Glassie & handling errors and it was all over red rover.

My best were ...

3 Havea Jr
2 Lakeman
1 Taai
1 Taupau-Moors
1 Paea

No player was immune from errors in this game but Havea Jr imo provided impact & effort on both sides of the ball. Lakeman produced a couple of try saving tackles and was his usual self as the 'general', lacks zip in his running game which could hold him back. CTM produced some big plays in both attack & defence but also conceded an important penalty & error in the 1st set after a try so was very rocks'n diamonds. For his 1st game of the season, Paea was safe under the high ball, added spark in attack when he got involved, backed up well for a try and produced a great cover tackle.

I see this week both wingers Vella & Richards have been demoted for Lanyon and newcomer Cortez Kirkpatrick who is on board with the club I believe on a WT pathways contract (an elusive fullback) and Lele back to 5/8 in place of Tiberti who has just made too many errors. Leviticus Tovia is back on the bench for Cruz Tauaifaiga who also has been guilt of too many handling errors & poor misses in defence in his first few games. Tovia will add size & impact in the rotation with CTM & Futialo.
 
'These failures' aren't indicative of anything.

Hold your fire until the season is well underway and the squads are settled.

There is a myriad of factors around who we can field and why, especially during 1st grade trial periods, with squad members all over the shop.

Additionally, the NSW Cup and First Grade setup look good thus far, of which a generous make up is kids still Flegg and below eligible, which is promising in and of itself. We are a very young club, mainly due to having years of underperforming mature-aged players, meaning, that our best and brightest prospects have had to, out of necessity in some ways, play up. We are still seeing that play out; it takes years to unwind.

Even a terrible season is not indicative of systemic failures, just as a successful season is not always indicative of systemic successes.

The bottom line is this - the club is spending increasingly more on pathways year on year after a renewed focus on this part of the club after a decade-plus of neglecting it.

And throwing the toys out of the cot because the results aren't there during the first few weeks of the year, is laughable.

It's not that serious... relax.
Who says we're spending more money on pathways? I've heard we've been screaming out for funds, well below every other club in the comps.

Every club has the same issues, promoting youngsters for trials, some players getting pinched by other clubs, injuries etc. Some things you can't control, others you can.

The culture at Wests absolutely stinks. But just this year, but over the past decade the teams have under performed, not played as a team, just been a bunch of individuals - aside from a couple of highly talented squads.

More recently recruitment and retention has been poor. Yes the matts team from a few years ago had success, but the players we hoped would kick on, haven't. The one that did, left.

We've lost some handy players in recent years, and not replaced then at all. How many external recruits do Wests have? Maybe 1-2 per squad. If the locals are good enough, sure of course load up on local kids. If that year is a bit weaker then target strong juniors from other clubs. This we don't do.

None of our sides have the finals last year, none will this year. Over the past decade both Balmain and Wests would be bottom 4 in an accumulated ladder.
Wests should be top 5 every year. They're not. Why not.

Wins and losses don't ultimately determine success, but it plays a large part. Create a winning atmosphere and players will want to stay. They can't wait to leave as the south west is not a desirable location, and Wests Tigers have not been a professionally run club, ever. And our Juniors have largely struggled as a result. At present this rests largely on HBG. If stay have asked for funding and been rejected, then that's on HBG for bit supporting our pathways, other than doing the bare minimum.

We are bare minimum complacency football club. That should be our name.

At least someone will win this weekend. While Wests have the stronger roster, especially after finally cutting their very poor outside backs and finally bringing up Lanyon, I still reckon Balmain will win, through effort plays and heart. If Wests click in SG Ball they could win by 40,I have my doubts that they will.
 
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Who says we're spending more money on pathways? I've heard we've been screaming out for funds, well below every other club in the comps.

Every club has the same issues, promoting youngsters for trials, some players getting pinched by other clubs, injuries etc. Some things you can't control, others you can.

The culture at Wests absolutely stinks. But just this year, but over the past decade the teams have under performed, not played as a team, just been a bunch of individuals - aside from a couple of highly talented squads.

More recently recruitment and retention has been poor. Yes the matts team from a few years ago had success, but the players we hoped would kick on, haven't. The one that did, left.

We've lost some handy players in recent years, and not replaced then at all. How many external recruits do Wests have? Maybe 1-2 per squad. If the locals are good enough, sure of course load up on local kids. If that year is a bit weaker then target strong juniors from other clubs. This we don't do.

None of our sides have the finals last year, none will this year. Over the past decade both Balmain and Wests would be bottom 4 in an accumulated ladder.
Wests should be top 5 every year. They're not. Why not.

Wins and losses don't ultimately determine success, but it plays a large part. Create a winning atmosphere and possess will want to stay. They can't wait to leave as the south west is not a desirable location, and Wests Tigers have not been a professionally run club, ever. And our Juniors have largely struggled as a result. At present this rests largely on HBG. If stay have asked for funding and been rejected, then that's on HBG for bit supporting our pathways, other than doing the bare minimum.

We are bare minimum complacency football club. That should be our name.

At least someone will win this weekend. While Wests have the stronger roster, especially after finally cutting their very poor outside backs and finally bringing up Lanyon, I still reckon Balmain will win, through effort plays and heart. If Wests click in SG Ball they could win by 40,I have my doubts that they will.
I know you watch a lot of juniors, so I won't discount your opinion, but it is not a perspective I share.

In fact, I think you have a very outdated and over-simplistic way of viewing juniors, both as individuals and as teams/squads. You talk often about concepts such as 'size' generically, rarely discussing exactly where and when 'size' makes a difference or the nuance that would contextualise why 'size' is a key missing ingredient. I think you ignore context. I think you lump past failures in with modern, attempted solutions and I think you undersell the time it takes to regenerate and fix, correctly, a long-broken and neglected pathways system.

You made a lot of points here, some I agree with, many I don't; but short of an hour-long podcast where we can flesh out ideas together and come to common ground, sitting here attempting to reply and rebuke each, individual point, when there are dozens of assertions made that deserve discussion, is ineffective and laborious, so I won't bother.

I agree with you on one point, we should be stronger across the board. I'm optimistic that we're heading in that direction.

The difference is, I'm looking at improvement in the system and the trajectory henceforth, whereas I think you're, understandably, still burned from years and years of subpar allocation of resources across all facets of our juniors program.

I'll happily keep the discussion going, but I don't think we'll reach any genuine point where what's being discussed can be done so properly.
 
I've never seen such a sharp turnaround. That one dropped ball from Fotu and we didn't touch it again that half. A sucker punch that knocked us out. We had no energy, gave them 66% possession from that point on, our defensive line was in tatters, players walking and turning the back on the ball. Every single player dropped their head. Literally A 50 point turnaround.

Parra are an excellent side. Their backs are far superior to ours. Our entire back 5 were terrible today. No real prospects there. They're all too small, and not fast or skillful enough to compensate. The halves can't do much when you can barely make 20m a set.

Parra ran harder and sadly our boys gave up.

They're still a decent side and could maybe squeeze into the finals, but we as a club need to get so much better at overcoming adversity.
I watched the Balmain v Parra game fully last night. We were on top for the first 25 mins & should have gone up 18-6 if Fotu had not dropped the ball with the line open.

After that, it was a complete turnaround. The 4 tries in 10 mins before half-time broke their spirit. Then the Balmain team in the 2nd half was woeful, just looked flat, spiritless & tired.

Even though he wouldn't have changed the result, this Balmain team look so different when Blake Van Drie is playing as he provides energy, line speed, leadership & ball playing at lock.

Both Ocean Vaivela & Zane Farr-McKay struggle in defence as big guys when the opposition is on a roll and Zac Khattar was too passive for a big bloke on an edge.

Hard to provide POY points but the best of the bunch I'd say were ... (no player worthy of 3 points)

2 Azzi
2 Perkins
1 Kanaan
1 Karnib
1 Fotu
 
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