cqtiger
Well-known member
Timmy, Timmy, Timmy
Sheens future Safe at Wests Tigers
- Thread starter Buckets_of_blood
- Start date
I think many people must consider one of Sheens best achievements has been keeping the club out of the bottom consistently. We have never had a shocking season under him. I think we are only one of 3 clubs to have never finished in the bottom 5 in since 2003, which is quite remarkable when you think about it. A stat some Balmain and Wests fans of the 1990's would point to alot i suppose. Even a poor year under Sheens and we still finish with 10-11 wins and in the mixer until the bitter end.
It's not really a view I go along with. I think its accepting mediocrity when we have a playing squad capable of better. However many fans and obviously the people that matter seem relatively content to have these competative seasons with an attractive brand of football. A few coin flips over the last few years go our way and we could of had 3 or 4 successful seasons.
No one could of matched Sheens efforts at WT over his first 4 seasons. However I think he has lost his way over the last 3 seasons in many departments. The thing I can't deal with is his stubborn attitude and his ego. We could have far worse coaches, but I don't believe he deserves another new deal, I think he should be a little embarrassed about it to be honest. Go out and do well in 2010 and earn it.
Anyway he seems to be part of the furniture here now, like Marshall, Farah and co. So it is probably best just to get on with it and accept it. I think some of his comments lately have made alot more sense. We seem to be finally applying momentum towards something that can be sustained. However then he goes out and signs Fitzhenry and plays him on the wing. One step forward, two back.
It's not really a view I go along with. I think its accepting mediocrity when we have a playing squad capable of better. However many fans and obviously the people that matter seem relatively content to have these competative seasons with an attractive brand of football. A few coin flips over the last few years go our way and we could of had 3 or 4 successful seasons.
No one could of matched Sheens efforts at WT over his first 4 seasons. However I think he has lost his way over the last 3 seasons in many departments. The thing I can't deal with is his stubborn attitude and his ego. We could have far worse coaches, but I don't believe he deserves another new deal, I think he should be a little embarrassed about it to be honest. Go out and do well in 2010 and earn it.
Anyway he seems to be part of the furniture here now, like Marshall, Farah and co. So it is probably best just to get on with it and accept it. I think some of his comments lately have made alot more sense. We seem to be finally applying momentum towards something that can be sustained. However then he goes out and signs Fitzhenry and plays him on the wing. One step forward, two back.
supercoach
Well-known member
2010 is the year of no excuses, okay Sheens probably has the roster he wants minus one class front rower so the ball is in his court. The tigers have had the majority of the preseason press, lots of media grabs on various subjects, so expectations are higher than usual (rightly or wrongly). Benji has had the get of jail card removed from his contract, that is Sheens goes he goes so either he knows Sheens has resigned or confident the club will resign him.
I would take Sheens over most Nrl coaches, but if you keep falling short of a 50% pass mark every year you must start looking at other candidates. Anyway Iam confident that the board have set Tim a bench mark to achieve before they extend his contract into the next decade.
So lets hope Sheens has some luck from the injury gods and the ref gods and gets a fair crack at 2010 and their are no excuses
I would take Sheens over most Nrl coaches, but if you keep falling short of a 50% pass mark every year you must start looking at other candidates. Anyway Iam confident that the board have set Tim a bench mark to achieve before they extend his contract into the next decade.
So lets hope Sheens has some luck from the injury gods and the ref gods and gets a fair crack at 2010 and their are no excuses
AmericanHistoryX
Well-known member
Russell Crowe is not silly. Imagine the impact Sheens would have on Souths with that big pack and including one of the best players in the world with Sam Burgess. Sheens would simply buy a couple of backs and i dare say would win souths a premiership. Better to keep Sheens at Wests me thinks.
@supercoach said:
Huh…so if the injury God's aren't kind and the Ref's give us the raw end of the Pineapple like always...then there is no excuses.....
What I want to know is?.......... if injuries, Ref's obvious bias towards us and the bounce of the ball at times goes against us...Does Sheens have the ability to Coach a team to Overcome such adversity and still qualify for the 8?....
Do people think he has that ability...If Yes...resign him...If no ......find someone who CAN.....
Balmain_Bug
New member
All I can say is I want to come and work for some of you people. I can give back less than average results and i will continue to have a job for years to come. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
On Ya Fonzie !!!!
On Ya Fonzie !!!!
AmericanHistoryX
Well-known member
@Balmain Bug said:
All i can say is that Sheens is building a club and Rome wasnt built in a day. :deadhorse:
Eddie Comment above ….. I think its accepting mediocrity when we have a playing squad capable of better.
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How do you define mediocrity ? Is it when we lose that you walk out of the ground happy ? Or when we are not in the semi finals that one is happy to support other teams ?
If that is the definition of mediocrity, I am yet to meet a Wests Tigers supporter that fits this definition.
\
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How do you define mediocrity ? Is it when we lose that you walk out of the ground happy ? Or when we are not in the semi finals that one is happy to support other teams ?
If that is the definition of mediocrity, I am yet to meet a Wests Tigers supporter that fits this definition.
clontarfkid
Well-known member
@Eddie said:
I think Eddie has got it spot on.
Many Wests & balmain supporters are more than familiar with years,even decades ,of poor results,& anything around the middle of the table is seen by some of us as a stunning success,particularly in context with a premiership 5 years ago.
IWhats really changed from the bad old days is the salary cap which puts all teams theoretically on a level playing field,so Wests Tigers can & should expect the same results as a Parra,or manly or even the Storm.
In some cases (eg Storm)the competency of their coaching staff gives them a competitive advantage,in other cases (eg Brisbane)the one team town & lower cost of living allows them to pay a little less sometimes,but realistically there are no excuses for ongoing & repetitive failure,& thats what Sheens is managing the Tigers through presently.Everyone has injuries,every team has bad luck,but when it continues year after year its just plain bad management.
Coming 9th or 10th every year simply isnt good enough.
Heaven forbid that we re-sign him at all before the season starts,let alone align his contract term with Benjis.
The latter wouldnt force me to choose another team,but simply lose confidence in the management,& lose interest in the team Ive followed for many yrs
@Knuckles said:
Exactly. Very few games we have lost I have walked out feeling happy even tho we lost. You know the ones I mean - the games when you know they gave it their all and you know they had the best dig they possibly could. I've spoken with many Wests and Balmain fans that have talked about games in the old days where they had their butts kicked but still left the ground proud of the effort put in because those boys played like it was war. Those sort of games don't happen often enough. Win or lose you want to see that every possible effort was made by everyone involved with the team to make sure we go out there and play like it was life or death. That's what makes me proud. Win or lose I can still leave the ground happy as long as I can see that effort was there.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/time-hasnt-dulled-sheens-steely-edge-20100226-p904.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
**Time hasn't dulled Sheens' steely edge**
February 27, 2010
The veteran coach still firmly believes near enough is not good enough - so much so he's prepared to walk away if success doesn't come to the Tigers soon, writes Greg Prichard.
>
Tim Sheens has been around for a long time, but to call him a survivor would be to suggest he has merely found a way to cling on, rather than achieve.
>
He has won four premierships. Had he not already won three of those with Canberra between 1989 and 1994, his career might have fizzled out after a four-year stint at North Queensland ended badly in 2001, but Wests Tigers clearly thought him capable of leading them somewhere special.
>
The club's faith seemed to have been vindicated when Sheens advanced them from 13th in 2003 to ninth in 2004 and, dramatically, a premiership in 2005\. They haven't made the finals in the four years since, but are set to extend his contract, which runs out at the end of this season. That suggests both an acceptance by the club that circumstances beyond the coach's control have contributed to that recent record and, more importantly, a belief in his near-enough-is-not-good-enough philosophy.
>
**Indeed, Sheens revealed to the Herald that he has pushed for only a short-term contract extension - possibly only one year - reasoning that failure to challenge seriously for honours either this season or next will signify that it is time for him to move on.**
>
''You can play safe and maybe make the semis, but I wouldn't give up the grand final for four semi-final appearances,'' Sheens says. **''I like to take risks to try to establish a winning team. I don't think just making the semis is as big as people think it is.** There are quite a few clubs that would give up a few semi-final appearances to win one premiership.
>
''I'm not giving myself an excuse, but unless you make the play-offs with a chance to win it, it's a waste of time. I don't say the only time we want to get there is when we're a chance to win it, but if we get there and go straight out, I mean, finishing ninth or finishing eighth and going straight out is not much different, really. It's just something on paper.''
>
It's no secret the Tigers have had big issues with money. The club has taken many games away from Leichhardt Oval and Campbelltown Sports Ground, giving up crucial home-ground advantage, in order to receive financial guarantees to play elsewhere. For a couple of years, they even took home games against the Warriors to Christchurch.
>
''When I took over, three years after they started, they had blown all of their money and owed the league a million dollars,'' Sheens says.
>
The Tigers have remained competitive, but in recent years have teased their fans rather than fulfilled their desires, losing games narrowly and finishing just outside the top eight.
>
Last year, but for a tight game late in the season in which Parramatta narrowly eclipsed them, it could have been Wests Tigers instead of the Eels who burst into the finals as the competition's loose cannon. But, even then, a heavy injury toll might have stopped them advancing much further.
>
''We lost two wingers in that one game against Parra, and one of them, Taniela [Tuiaki], had been the NRL's leading try-scorer all year,'' Sheens said. ''Plus, [prop] Bryce Gibbs got suspended, and when we went in against Canterbury in the last round, I had seven guys take local anaesthetics to play, so it wasn't healthy. We may not have gone into the finals in a condition to win it. But if you go in fit - in '05 we won it with a healthy squad and in '89, '90 and '94 we won with fit squads at the Raiders. In '91, we had players out and others playing hurt, and that contributed to our loss when we had a chance for a 'three-peat'. You look at [Melbourne coach] Craig Bellamy not having Cameron Smith and Ryan Hoffman available a couple of years ago, and last year [Manly coach] Dessie Hasler's nightmare with injury and issues.
>
''Any coach will tell you, you've got to have the right people available at the right time of year. Most of it [at the Tigers] comes down to a lack of budget to acquire depth of players. We've had to rely a lot on kids when we've had senior players out.
>
''Last year, our three [licensed] clubs put in less than $700,000 - between them, not each. Some clubs put in $3-$4 million. People have got to understand we've got limited budgets. This is the first year we've actually had depth of players and been able to reinvest back into the organisation with more equipment and more staff.
>
''The club's ticking along pretty well at the moment. We're producing our own kids, and we're very serious about continuing that, but it's only recently that we've actually gone back to buying some big-name players to support our junior policy. We haven't had the money to do so in the past, nor have we been attractive enough. People wouldn't come to us.''
>
The competition is more even than ever and Wests Tigers - now boasting Lote Tuquiri and the recently re-signed Benji Marshall on their books - give the impression that if everything clicks they could make run at the title this season. It is only a couple of weeks to the premiership kick-off now. The days are long, the preparation is intense and the aim clear.
>
''We're always building to try to get to that point of winning a premiership,'' Sheens says. ''You've got to win enough games along the way to put yourself in a position to play finals football and be a genuine chance, and then you've got to be able to take that extra step.
>
''It's not easy to do, there's a lot of hard work involved and a lot of stepping stones, but it's what you're in business for as a professional coach. If you take a team on, then on behalf of your club and your supporters and your sponsors, it's about trying to win it.''
Wow…Nice Job application Sheensy...
He certainly can play the media to his advantage...
Good read though...
**Time hasn't dulled Sheens' steely edge**
February 27, 2010
The veteran coach still firmly believes near enough is not good enough - so much so he's prepared to walk away if success doesn't come to the Tigers soon, writes Greg Prichard.
>
Tim Sheens has been around for a long time, but to call him a survivor would be to suggest he has merely found a way to cling on, rather than achieve.
>
He has won four premierships. Had he not already won three of those with Canberra between 1989 and 1994, his career might have fizzled out after a four-year stint at North Queensland ended badly in 2001, but Wests Tigers clearly thought him capable of leading them somewhere special.
>
The club's faith seemed to have been vindicated when Sheens advanced them from 13th in 2003 to ninth in 2004 and, dramatically, a premiership in 2005\. They haven't made the finals in the four years since, but are set to extend his contract, which runs out at the end of this season. That suggests both an acceptance by the club that circumstances beyond the coach's control have contributed to that recent record and, more importantly, a belief in his near-enough-is-not-good-enough philosophy.
>
**Indeed, Sheens revealed to the Herald that he has pushed for only a short-term contract extension - possibly only one year - reasoning that failure to challenge seriously for honours either this season or next will signify that it is time for him to move on.**
>
''You can play safe and maybe make the semis, but I wouldn't give up the grand final for four semi-final appearances,'' Sheens says. **''I like to take risks to try to establish a winning team. I don't think just making the semis is as big as people think it is.** There are quite a few clubs that would give up a few semi-final appearances to win one premiership.
>
''I'm not giving myself an excuse, but unless you make the play-offs with a chance to win it, it's a waste of time. I don't say the only time we want to get there is when we're a chance to win it, but if we get there and go straight out, I mean, finishing ninth or finishing eighth and going straight out is not much different, really. It's just something on paper.''
>
It's no secret the Tigers have had big issues with money. The club has taken many games away from Leichhardt Oval and Campbelltown Sports Ground, giving up crucial home-ground advantage, in order to receive financial guarantees to play elsewhere. For a couple of years, they even took home games against the Warriors to Christchurch.
>
''When I took over, three years after they started, they had blown all of their money and owed the league a million dollars,'' Sheens says.
>
The Tigers have remained competitive, but in recent years have teased their fans rather than fulfilled their desires, losing games narrowly and finishing just outside the top eight.
>
Last year, but for a tight game late in the season in which Parramatta narrowly eclipsed them, it could have been Wests Tigers instead of the Eels who burst into the finals as the competition's loose cannon. But, even then, a heavy injury toll might have stopped them advancing much further.
>
''We lost two wingers in that one game against Parra, and one of them, Taniela [Tuiaki], had been the NRL's leading try-scorer all year,'' Sheens said. ''Plus, [prop] Bryce Gibbs got suspended, and when we went in against Canterbury in the last round, I had seven guys take local anaesthetics to play, so it wasn't healthy. We may not have gone into the finals in a condition to win it. But if you go in fit - in '05 we won it with a healthy squad and in '89, '90 and '94 we won with fit squads at the Raiders. In '91, we had players out and others playing hurt, and that contributed to our loss when we had a chance for a 'three-peat'. You look at [Melbourne coach] Craig Bellamy not having Cameron Smith and Ryan Hoffman available a couple of years ago, and last year [Manly coach] Dessie Hasler's nightmare with injury and issues.
>
''Any coach will tell you, you've got to have the right people available at the right time of year. Most of it [at the Tigers] comes down to a lack of budget to acquire depth of players. We've had to rely a lot on kids when we've had senior players out.
>
''Last year, our three [licensed] clubs put in less than $700,000 - between them, not each. Some clubs put in $3-$4 million. People have got to understand we've got limited budgets. This is the first year we've actually had depth of players and been able to reinvest back into the organisation with more equipment and more staff.
>
''The club's ticking along pretty well at the moment. We're producing our own kids, and we're very serious about continuing that, but it's only recently that we've actually gone back to buying some big-name players to support our junior policy. We haven't had the money to do so in the past, nor have we been attractive enough. People wouldn't come to us.''
>
The competition is more even than ever and Wests Tigers - now boasting Lote Tuquiri and the recently re-signed Benji Marshall on their books - give the impression that if everything clicks they could make run at the title this season. It is only a couple of weeks to the premiership kick-off now. The days are long, the preparation is intense and the aim clear.
>
''We're always building to try to get to that point of winning a premiership,'' Sheens says. ''You've got to win enough games along the way to put yourself in a position to play finals football and be a genuine chance, and then you've got to be able to take that extra step.
>
''It's not easy to do, there's a lot of hard work involved and a lot of stepping stones, but it's what you're in business for as a professional coach. If you take a team on, then on behalf of your club and your supporters and your sponsors, it's about trying to win it.''
Wow…Nice Job application Sheensy...
He certainly can play the media to his advantage...
Good read though...
clontarfkid
Well-known member
Hope u read all the way to the bottom Rusty!
A
alien
Guest
I wonder if the Wests Tigers have spoken to Kearney about coaching Wests Tigers in 2011? There is no point in replacing Sheens with just anyone. Kearney would have learnt alot under Bellamy at the Storm and maybe even a bit from Bennett when Bennett helped coach the Kiwi team. I am sure Kearney would want to be the Head Coach of a NRL team. If there is a clause in Benji's contract about only having to stay if Sheens is here then having the Kiwi coach could help keep him and other Kiwi players here (like Tuiaki) plus maybe increase the chance of signing other Kiwi internationals. If Kearney isn't interested and there isn't a better option then hurry up and sign Sheens before the season starts so he can focus on getting us another premiership instead of focusing on where he will be in 2011, but only sign him for 1 more year at this stage.
@alien said:
Perfect..then in 2012 Sheens can link with Rusty….
Wake up.....Sheens only wants a 1 year deal because that's when Lang is off contract with Souths....
If the Wests Tigers fail he will move on....At least the clause in Benji's contract has been removed...
If Humphrys signs off on the deal then the next move is Chris Lawrence.....come on Lawry Tiger 4 Life...
AmericanHistoryX
Well-known member
Sheens himself siad in another article that he will leave if Wests dont achieve their goals. I think that is a fair statement by the man -
A
alien
Guest
@Geo. said:
So what are you saying the Wests Tigers should do then???
supercoach
Well-known member
In the SMH article he said really whats the difference from coming eight and bowing out in week one of the semi finals and coming ninth and I tend to agree. To me 5th or better is your bench mark, eight is a pretty average season to me.
Anyway it was good to see him say that if certain levels are not achieved over this year and next year at the outside he would walk. I would be happy to give him his extension with that in mind.
Anyway it was good to see him say that if certain levels are not achieved over this year and next year at the outside he would walk. I would be happy to give him his extension with that in mind.
