Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

WestsTigers4VR said:
Naturally. Regardless of who he puts in we still have the worst squad in the comp. Hardly Benji’s fault given it’s his first year.

Not saying this in a rude way but just as a sort of “look for your self”. I encourage everyone to go through our first grade team and then our reserve team and tell me who you’d swap who for and an actual reason. I guarantee you there’d be no standout swaps available.

Richo has said they have been working on creating better depth cause in order to have a good first grade squad you need reserve graders keeping them on their toes. No one can say we are a worse team then last year, personally I think this teams wipes the floor with last years and a lot of that is contributed to a lack of giving up. These boys have fought regardless and only a few times have there been a genuine lack of trying for a whole 80.

There are so many factors attributing to this side going to the wooden spoon and I’ll happily list a few:

- Injuries (worse then most)
- youngest squad in the comp by far
- Inexperienced coaching staff
- poor depth/poor cup performances
- In game brain explosions I.e missing a kick to touch
- suspensions (more then most)

Now if Benji had been here for multiple years and these were going on I’d be worried but it’s his first year. These are not all the coaches fault, like is Benji missing that kick to touch? Is Benji giving away a high tackle? Is Benji hip dropping our own players to an injury? The rest can be attributed to poor club management which is on the turn around thanks to Richo. Just my opinion though.
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Good post highlighting some factors that frequently get overlooked and we are on the same page in most respects.

If I may offer some respectful counterpoints in the spirit that reasonable people can disagree.

I hear what you say with regards to exculpating Benji but my own view, at this time, is that it’s his job is to reign in the Ill-discipline and he’s proven that he’s simply not up to the task.

Its not the same player getting into trouble, it’s a veritable conga line of miscreants waiting for the next fellow to grab the waist in front.

I imagine that he’s spent a disproportionate amount of the season in passionate refrain of such uncouth behaviour, only for his earnest representations to fall on deaf ears.

Therefore, I conclude that his communication skills and indeed his consequences for such unsavoury behaviour need serious revision and upgrade.

At the moment there seems to be a rush to get the impugned player back into the side asap and I think it’s because Benji is desperate for results to beat last year’s horrifying season that (thankfully) brought down an entire clubs heirachy.

He was “anointed” as coach and didn’t face a competitive process, eagerly grasping the poisoned chalice with both hands. I don’t buy this “rookie coach” excuse for a second and I don’t think it serves him well. Every NRL coach is a rookie at one point and most of them don’t come last in their first year or use their inexperience to conjure up sympathy. It’s a brutal sport, a sporting monstrosity, only the tough succeed.

Another failure is the general decline or lack of enthusiasm from some of the senior players. It worries me because when the kids get older and talent arrives, I don’t want to see the same decay.

Now obviously, we share a similar high view of Richo, but I think if that platform is laid, there is no harm in questioning some of his decisions. I think it’s healthy if the respect is there, especially as a member.

He’s at our service he says. He’s right.

Thanks again for your insights, both enigmatic and well argued.
 
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Our first signing should be a new head of Strength and conditioning. We aren’t fit enough and definitely not strong enough. Our second signing should be any player that can get a kickoff to make the in goal. We give up sometimes 20m just on the kickoff. If we don’t get the S & C right it won’t matter who we sign. Blore was under done according to Bellamy when he arrived. The blokes who joined Panthers have said how much harder the conditioning is Penrith. Our physio department needs a massive overhaul. Our players seem to remain injured for longer periods then most.
 
TSP said:
Good post highlighting some factors that frequently get overlooked and we are on the same page in most respects.

If I may offer some respectful counterpoints in the spirit that reasonable people can disagree.

I hear what you say with regards to exculpating Benji but my own view, at this time, is that it’s his job is to reign in the Ill-discipline and he’s proven that he’s simply not up to the task.

Its not the same player getting into trouble, it’s a veritable conga line of miscreants waiting for the next fellow to grab the waist in front.

I imagine that he’s spent a disproportionate amount of the season in passionate refrain of such uncouth behaviour, only for his earnest representations to fall on deaf ears.

Therefore, I conclude that his communication skills and indeed his consequences for such unsavoury behaviour need serious revision and upgrade.

At the moment there seems to be a rush to get the impugned player back into the side asap and I think it’s because Benji is desperate for results to beat last year’s horrifying season that (thankfully) brought down an entire clubs heirachy.

He was “anointed” as coach and didn’t face a competitive process, eagerly grasping the poisoned chalice with both hands. I don’t buy this “rookie coach” excuse for a second and I don’t think it serves him well. Every NRL coach is a rookie at one point and most of them don’t come last in their first year or use their inexperience to conjure up sympathy. It’s a brutal sport, a sporting monstrosity, only the tough succeed.

Another failure is the general decline or lack of enthusiasm from some of the senior players. It worries me because when the kids get older and talent arrives, I don’t want to see the same decay.

Now obviously, we share a similar high view of Richo, but I think if that platform is laid, there is no harm in questioning some of his decisions. I think it’s healthy if the respect is there, especially as a member.

He’s at our service he says. He’s right.

Thanks again for your insights, both enigmatic and well argued.
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I slight flaw in your argument about coaches all being rookies at one point. While that is true, these coaches usually earned their stripes through the grades and were hired based on results and recommendations.

Through no fault of his own, Benji was not able to serve his apprenticeship, however he hadn't so much as coached a juniors team, let alone an adult team.

I agree we should stick it out, but if, for some reason, the holy grail of coaches becomes available, I'd support a decision to demote Benji and allow him to finish his apprenticeship.
 
Ok, so 5 players to build our squad & cover as many holes as possible.

That wing position is weak. So is centre. Unless we are signing a second rower that plays centre as well, I'm starting to think our new winger also has to cover centre- giving more depth.

Izaac Thompson from the Rabbits is a bigger body that can play both. And would be a budget option. Obviously, the name that fits & has some jazz to it is Val Holmes. His defence is weird, but he certainly an upgrade on the wing in attack. We have the money for him- that's the key. You could overspend (slightly) on a 2-3 year deal without crippling the club and get a genuine superstar.

Faataape needs to be re-signed to become the #3/4 option in the centre ranks & I'd keep Naden simply because of depth purposes. If Naden is centre/winger #4/5 in the squad- we are ok. Luke Lualili'i obviously covers some wing depth as well. At some point Makasini will feature- I suspect he might be the one to push Olam or Doueihi off the roster in time.


The forwards- I'm thinking 1 back row & 3 middles.

Seyfarth is versatile enough to cover 2nd row & actually contributes to my "Bash Brothers" ideal anyway.

That said- watching good teams these days- those wide forwards are really the metre makers. Kleese Haas is young & dynamic & could excel running off Luia. If rumours of Harrison Hassett are true though- he becomes that backrow edge runner. This is why I mention Seyfarth- who might be needed to start until Hassett transitions into a starter. Rueben Porter & Johannssen offer the depth in the backrow, but I think the club needs to look at Fa'agutu & Kit Lualili'i getting some experience there too while numbers are thin.

Our middles are where everyone will have different takes. I've made my ideas pretty clear- I'd sacrifice the explosive runners in place of hard tackling, hard working types & produce that 'hard' edge we are simply not known for. Klemmer will start- he's our best defensive middle despite the critics. Pole & Sione Fainu offer attack (think the way the Roosters use Leniu & Tupouniua) off the bench. Our #13 options are young & untested (Fa'agutu & Kit Lualili'i) and need to earn the starting spot. Twal is a steady player that holds value, but COULD be the guy that floats between 1st grade & 2nd grade.

With Hassett added in the backrow- we need experience in the middle. Horsburgh is still my #1 guy & could play prop or #13 effectively. He adds that starch that makes teams look up before running into the line. WE NEED THAT INTIMIDATION. Currently, teams enjoy running at our middles- that has to stop. Nelson Asofa-Solomona has some value as an enormous human that doesn't get overpowered. He's not the player he used to be, but he does give the forward pack someone teams 'fear'. Good news is- we can afford both. If Nelson isn't available, there are options but none hold that immediate respect he would bring. Jack Hetherington is a big body with a reckless edge & the demeanour I'd want in our forwards- make the opposition wear a few hits running through our middle. I know he has a few of you worried about his discipline, I'm ok with it. Assuming Nelson ISN'T available, Hetherington is my target.

That last spot in my middle three recruits is down to 3/4 options, with 2 playing the same role. Dylan Walker & Jazz Tevaga offer that versatile #13/#9 option that is very valuable. But you only need 1 of the 2. I prefer Tevaga for personality, but Walker might be the more available. The other 2 options- Mat Croker from the Knights who is kind of another Twal, or........Josh Schuster. Before you choke on your tea- Schuster on a decent contract value is by far the most talented option & could revolusionize our attack from #13. But, he is a lazy player & doesn't quite fit my ideal. Of that lot- I think I'd go Tevaga, but suspect Dylan Walker.

So, my 5 new additions would likely be Val Holmes, Corey Horsburgh, Jack Hetherington, Harrison Hassett & Dylan Walker.
 
Tiger_claws said:
Our first signing should be a new head of Strength and conditioning. We aren’t fit enough and definitely not strong enough. Our second signing should be any player that can get a kickoff to make the in goal. We give up sometimes 20m just on the kickoff. If we don’t get the S & C right it won’t matter who we sign. Blore was under done according to Bellamy when he arrived. The blokes who joined Panthers have said how much harder the conditioning is Penrith. Our physio department needs a massive overhaul. Our players seem to remain injured for longer periods then most.
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Tony Grimaldi
 
The Chad said:
Ok, so 5 players to build our squad & cover as many holes as possible.

That wing position is weak. So is centre. Unless we are signing a second rower that plays centre as well, I'm starting to think our new winger also has to cover centre- giving more depth.

Izaac Thompson from the Rabbits is a bigger body that can play both. And would be a budget option. Obviously, the name that fits & has some jazz to it is Val Holmes. His defence is weird, but he certainly an upgrade on the wing in attack. We have the money for him- that's the key. You could overspend (slightly) on a 2-3 year deal without crippling the club and get a genuine superstar.

Faataape needs to be re-signed to become the #3/4 option in the centre ranks & I'd keep Naden simply because of depth purposes. If Naden is centre/winger #4/5 in the squad- we are ok. Luke Lualili'i obviously covers some wing depth as well. At some point Makasini will feature- I suspect he might be the one to push Olam or Doueihi off the roster in time.


The forwards- I'm thinking 1 back row & 3 middles.

Seyfarth is versatile enough to cover 2nd row & actually contributes to my "Bash Brothers" ideal anyway.

That said- watching good teams these days- those wide forwards are really the metre makers. Kleese Haas is young & dynamic & could excel running off Luia. If rumours of Harrison Hassett are true though- he becomes that backrow edge runner. This is why I mention Seyfarth- who might be needed to start until Hassett transitions into a starter. Rueben Porter & Johannssen offer the depth in the backrow, but I think the club needs to look at Fa'agutu & Kit Lualili'i getting some experience there too while numbers are thin.

Our middles are where everyone will have different takes. I've made my ideas pretty clear- I'd sacrifice the explosive runners in place of hard tackling, hard working types & produce that 'hard' edge we are simply not known for. Klemmer will start- he's our best defensive middle despite the critics. Pole & Sione Fainu offer attack (think the way the Roosters use Leniu & Tupouniua) off the bench. Our #13 options are young & untested (Fa'agutu & Kit Lualili'i) and need to earn the starting spot. Twal is a steady player that holds value, but COULD be the guy that floats between 1st grade & 2nd grade.

With Hassett added in the backrow- we need experience in the middle. Horsburgh is still my #1 guy & could play prop or #13 effectively. He adds that starch that makes teams look up before running into the line. WE NEED THAT INTIMIDATION. Currently, teams enjoy running at our middles- that has to stop. Nelson Asofa-Solomona has some value as an enormous human that doesn't get overpowered. He's not the player he used to be, but he does give the forward pack someone teams 'fear'. Good news is- we can afford both. If Nelson isn't available, there are options but none hold that immediate respect he would bring. Jack Hetherington is a big body with a reckless edge & the demeanour I'd want in our forwards- make the opposition wear a few hits running through our middle. I know he has a few of you worried about his discipline, I'm ok with it. Assuming Nelson ISN'T available, Hetherington is my target.

That last spot in my middle three recruits is down to 3/4 options, with 2 playing the same role. Dylan Walker & Jazz Tevaga offer that versatile #13/#9 option that is very valuable. But you only need 1 of the 2. I prefer Tevaga for personality, but Walker might be the more available. The other 2 options- Mat Croker from the Knights who is kind of another Twal, or........Josh Schuster. Before you choke on your tea- Schuster on a decent contract value is by far the most talented option & could revolusionize our attack from #13. But, he is a lazy player & doesn't quite fit my ideal. Of that lot- I think I'd go Tevaga, but suspect Dylan Walker.

So, my 5 new additions would likely be Val Holmes, Corey Horsburgh, Jack Hetherington, Harrison Hassett & Dylan Walker.
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Horsburgh, Hetherington and Schuster will definitely bolster NSW Cup. The Magpies could have a decent season.

Moving onto NRL, apart from his defence, Holmes has another major drawback which we desperately need to address and that is running metres from our wingers. Holmes might be slick in space, but he's not making 200m a game. Everything else aside, does he really fill the gap we need filled? Or is he just a big name that may be available? I personally think it's the latter and we shouldn't blow our load on the next big name that comes along if it's not going to address the issues we've had this year.
 
Wiz said:
Why do you say this? Out of interest, not having a go at you.
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If you were him, what at wests takes your game to the next level ? The coaching ? Results ? Culture ? Kid knocked back Wayne bennett at the fins, has a top 30 at the pennies … he’s only 20.
 
The Chad said:
Ok, so 5 players to build our squad & cover as many holes as possible.

That wing position is weak. So is centre. Unless we are signing a second rower that plays centre as well, I'm starting to think our new winger also has to cover centre- giving more depth.

Izaac Thompson from the Rabbits is a bigger body that can play both. And would be a budget option. Obviously, the name that fits & has some jazz to it is Val Holmes. His defence is weird, but he certainly an upgrade on the wing in attack. We have the money for him- that's the key. You could overspend (slightly) on a 2-3 year deal without crippling the club and get a genuine superstar.

Faataape needs to be re-signed to become the #3/4 option in the centre ranks & I'd keep Naden simply because of depth purposes. If Naden is centre/winger #4/5 in the squad- we are ok. Luke Lualili'i obviously covers some wing depth as well. At some point Makasini will feature- I suspect he might be the one to push Olam or Doueihi off the roster in time.


The forwards- I'm thinking 1 back row & 3 middles.

Seyfarth is versatile enough to cover 2nd row & actually contributes to my "Bash Brothers" ideal anyway.

That said- watching good teams these days- those wide forwards are really the metre makers. Kleese Haas is young & dynamic & could excel running off Luia. If rumours of Harrison Hassett are true though- he becomes that backrow edge runner. This is why I mention Seyfarth- who might be needed to start until Hassett transitions into a starter. Rueben Porter & Johannssen offer the depth in the backrow, but I think the club needs to look at Fa'agutu & Kit Lualili'i getting some experience there too while numbers are thin.

Our middles are where everyone will have different takes. I've made my ideas pretty clear- I'd sacrifice the explosive runners in place of hard tackling, hard working types & produce that 'hard' edge we are simply not known for. Klemmer will start- he's our best defensive middle despite the critics. Pole & Sione Fainu offer attack (think the way the Roosters use Leniu & Tupouniua) off the bench. Our #13 options are young & untested (Fa'agutu & Kit Lualili'i) and need to earn the starting spot. Twal is a steady player that holds value, but COULD be the guy that floats between 1st grade & 2nd grade.

With Hassett added in the backrow- we need experience in the middle. Horsburgh is still my #1 guy & could play prop or #13 effectively. He adds that starch that makes teams look up before running into the line. WE NEED THAT INTIMIDATION. Currently, teams enjoy running at our middles- that has to stop. Nelson Asofa-Solomona has some value as an enormous human that doesn't get overpowered. He's not the player he used to be, but he does give the forward pack someone teams 'fear'. Good news is- we can afford both. If Nelson isn't available, there are options but none hold that immediate respect he would bring. Jack Hetherington is a big body with a reckless edge & the demeanour I'd want in our forwards- make the opposition wear a few hits running through our middle. I know he has a few of you worried about his discipline, I'm ok with it. Assuming Nelson ISN'T available, Hetherington is my target.

That last spot in my middle three recruits is down to 3/4 options, with 2 playing the same role. Dylan Walker & Jazz Tevaga offer that versatile #13/#9 option that is very valuable. But you only need 1 of the 2. I prefer Tevaga for personality, but Walker might be the more available. The other 2 options- Mat Croker from the Knights who is kind of another Twal, or........Josh Schuster. Before you choke on your tea- Schuster on a decent contract value is by far the most talented option & could revolusionize our attack from #13. But, he is a lazy player & doesn't quite fit my ideal. Of that lot- I think I'd go Tevaga, but suspect Dylan Walker.

So, my 5 new additions would likely be Val Holmes, Corey Horsburgh, Jack Hetherington, Harrison Hassett & Dylan Walker.
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I like you rationale ,but your ok with big jacky boy gets the sin bin and suspensions ? You might be, his team mates won’t be … deep down you won’t be either if his bin or recklessness costs a few games… buts it’s because he’s an angry hot head?
 
Tiger_claws said:
Our first signing should be a new head of Strength and conditioning. We aren’t fit enough and definitely not strong enough. Our second signing should be any player that can get a kickoff to make the in goal. We give up sometimes 20m just on the kickoff. If we don’t get the S & C right it won’t matter who we sign. Blore was under done according to Bellamy when he arrived. The blokes who joined Panthers have said how much harder the conditioning is Penrith. Our physio department needs a massive overhaul. Our players seem to remain injured for longer periods then most.
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I don't know about this. For me, this is the first year where we do look fit. The strength part may come down to having players who are simply incapable of getting as strong as others, for me that's a roster issue. But in regards to fitness, we don't seem to tire this year like previous ones. We have multiple forwards capable of playing 80 minutes. Fainu and Porter do it on their ear, Api does it with a huge workload, Klemmer and Stef can play long minutes, Stef could play 80 at a pinch. Seyfarth, Twal can play 80, Bateman can, Pole plays long minutes.

The only forward who looks like they get gassed is Papali'i.

Fitness looks the best it has in years IMO. It's our intensity that's the issue.
 
king_sirro said:
I don't know about this. For me, this is the first year where we do look fit. The strength part may come down to having players who are simply incapable of getting as strong as others, for me that's a roster issue. But in regards to fitness, we don't seem to tire this year like previous ones. We have multiple forwards capable of playing 80 minutes. Fainu and Porter do it on their ear, Api does it with a huge workload, Klemmer and Stef can play long minutes, Stef could play 80 at a pinch. Seyfarth, Twal can play 80, Bateman can, Pole plays long minutes.

The only forward who looks like they get gassed is Papali'i.

Fitness looks the best it has in years IMO. It's our intensity that's the issue.
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There have been multiple games at around 21st to 25th minutes where Stefano hasn’t “shut the gate”. It’s either allowed a try or a linebreak leading to a try. He isn’t alone in this regard. Being on the field for long minutes is completely different to “playing long minutes
 
Tiger_claws said:
There have been multiple games at around 21st to 25th minutes where Stefano hasn’t “shut the gate”. It’s either allowed a try or a linebreak leading to a try. He isn’t alone in this regard. Being on the field for long minutes is completely different to “playing long minutes
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I get that point and agree. I reckon that's more Stefs attitude then fitness though. He has played games where he has done 70 minutes quite well.
 
Vicious said:
It was a bad miss by Porter on Dearden when he scored, but he definitely redeemed himself with some great ball running in the second half.
I cannot remember the last time we had anyone on our right edge running the ball as dangerously as what Porter did. Let’s hope that is the confidence boost he needed to start producing that type of ball running on a regular basis and also eliminate his missed tackles.
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Porter is a keeper upgrade and extend x 2 year even 3 years
 
The Chad said:
In my estimation we need 1 winger, 2 back rowers & 2 middles along with Faataape, Rueben Porter re-signed.

That means we need to find a way to lose Bateman, Matamua & Tumeth.

Could be 1 backrow & 3 middles depending on where Seyfarth is asked to play.
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Agree , Bateman is easy just come out and say how week he is how he is to old , he’s not NRL quality anymore , hel stay in Pommy land , the other 2 just be up front and say your crap and not wanted
 
Buttface said:
I am playing the ball. I didn’t want him to leave for the exact same reasons you just stated and I reckon he has better in him. Really disappointing, and yeah I blame our previous management for a lot of it. But he could have played better while here, he’s had some shockers too.
That has nothing to do with what I was replying to. You seemed to be celebrating and congratulating him and Blore on their successful signing with the storm and wished them luck in their endeavours. I cannot do that. If you’re not with us, you are against us, and bad luck to you and may all the bad karma shine on you through out your football career. I wasn’t having a go at you either, good luck to ya if you can put things aside and cheer on former players. I must be a little more petty than you, but as I said to Merlot, I wish bad luck on him now, but if he comes back and wins us a GF I’d love the Ute again. But for now, no luck for you mighty boy.
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This is how it works. I don’t understand any other way of thinking.
 
king_sirro said:
I don't know about this. For me, this is the first year where we do look fit. The strength part may come down to having players who are simply incapable of getting as strong as others, for me that's a roster issue. But in regards to fitness, we don't seem to tire this year like previous ones. We have multiple forwards capable of playing 80 minutes. Fainu and Porter do it on their ear, Api does it with a huge workload, Klemmer and Stef can play long minutes, Stef could play 80 at a pinch. Seyfarth, Twal can play 80, Bateman can, Pole plays long minutes.

The only forward who looks like they get gassed is Papali'i.

Fitness looks the best it has in years IMO. It's our intensity that's the issue.
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Agree with your assessment KS regarding the fitness piece, however the strength in the wrestle and tackle is below a lot of teams who match up in size with us. We cannot get them to the ground easily and this leads to fast play the balls from them and we get 6 agains or line breaks happen
 
Sully said:
Agree with your assessment KS regarding the fitness piece, however the strength in the wrestle and tackle is below a lot of teams who match up in size with us. We cannot get them to the ground easily and this leads to fast play the balls from them and we get 6 agains or line breaks happen
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I agree with this. Also worth noting is it appears we often relax in the tackle when we think we have the ball carrier covered. This results in late offloads or not getting the runner to the ground. Boy this grinds on me. They just switch off.
 
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