Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[weststigers]

Who is the better player now is irrelevant to who will be the better player in 2027… Api is contracted here in the meantime and if his form dictates that he continues to be the best hooker in the club until then, keep picking in the NRL in the meantime …However, Tallyn is 20 years old , played less than 20 games and you would think still has some ( if not a lot) of upside ahead of him…

What is the upside in keeping Api past 2027 when he will be 34 ?

How many more years do you expect him to keep playing at a starting hooker level?

There's a bit of assumption involved when we try to predict where Tallyn (or other juniors) will be in a couple of years. Everyone hopes he develops into a top-tier hooker, but that's not something we can bank on just yet. The point is, we don't need to rush a decision based on what might happen. What is the rush to dump Api when you don't have a crystal ball? 2 years is a long time in rugby league.

All I’m saying is we don't need to force a decision on Api just because Tallyn’s coming through. If Api is clearly on the decline and Tallyn overtakes him, then great, the decision sorts itself out.

What I’m cautious about is making a call now based solely on age or the assumption that young players improve in a straight, predictable line. Footy development isn’t always linear, and Api is still performing at a high level. Can't we let the form do the talking? Is Tallyn Da Silva the only hooker in the game? At 20 years old, they are still developing. I don't understand this rush to get them into full-time first grade at 19/20.

Also, just on a club culture thing, Api has earned the absolute right, through his loyalty, his actions on and off the field and ultimately his form to be re-signed. You don't dog a legend for some impatient upstart. Tallyn has done nothing in the game. An extra contract for a guy that makes a huge difference to our team is the least we can do. Let Api go on his own terms like the good clubs do it. As long as he's not letting us down in games.

 

[weststigers]

First it was Liddle, then he was expendable cos we had Simpkin coming through. Then he was expendable cos we had TDS. Now TDS is expendable cos of Haywood. There’s a pattern here. We haven’t developed a quality 9 since Farah.

And the players you mention...they went onto to play Origin or for their country did they?

Sounds like we made the right call on every single one of them.

 

[weststigers]

It was not deliberate, however he was probably more focussed on his post try celebration as a nod to his high school mentor now at the dogs and not securing the bloody ball. It was a pretty fitting end to his time with us, almost Shakespearean.

Long-term it's better we are out of the media. He was bringing way too much attention to us. If we won a game it was because of Galvin. If we lost, Galvin was unsettled and could ask for a release. It was too much.

 

[Lestronge]

Did you forget about Mania Cherrington? He was first. Then it was a stop gap Godinet/McWrillwick after picking Liddle over Cherrington then it was Simpkin over Liddle then yeah the rest is correct.
Though, did we develop Farah to be a quality 9 or was he just a quality 9 to begin with and the best of the bunch?

Nah we have a pipeline with 9s . Mescia- senter , Isaac de gois , cherrington , and on and on … we develop first grade 9s . Even Grant when he came here , talks about how much he learned . It’s the one position we actually can hold our heads high on .

 

[Tucker]

No way. TDS is more like Brandon Smith. Haywood is the one, keep Api till then

TDS is far better and we have put a lot of effort into him. He is next up.
Good on this other kid for playing decent footy in the juniors…maybe that will transform to senior footy and then top level one day.

 

[Chunk]

Let’s Clear a Few Things Up

Firstly, To'a came from Newcastle. He is not a Tigers junior.

Yeah I know, I put Toa in the retention category.

Right now, keeping Api and bringing Tallyn along slowly makes the most sense because, let’s be honest, Api is still the better player.

Really, is Api the better player now? I said 2027. If TDS is still showing improvement and by the the time 2027 comes around, he definitely should be our number 9. And APi paid what he's worth, as a back up. This is a symbol if you like on where we are supposed to be, the Tigers path for success, juniors. TDS is a test

So if we can't keep TDS or he doesn't develop, its a very bad look. Sorry Api, Tigers future first.

About Retention - Let’s Not Rewrite the Story

There’s this narrative going around that we can't hold onto juniors. Let’s take a step back:

Retained Juniors:

Bula
Makasini
Mason
Laulii bros
Pole
Tapau-Moors
Phoenix Godinet

Lost:
Rat boy Galvin

Picked up from other clubs:
Fainu bros
Turuva
To'a

That’s just off the top of my head, and I’m sure there are more in each category.

We’re doing better than people think. Let’s just focus on making the right decisions for the team, not ones driven by outside noise or hypothetical future projections.

Is this a gee up? Are you serious?

Our retention and recruitment has been and still is, one of the worst in the comp.

However, hopefully things seem to be improving

 

[Nonotmeagain]

There are teams in all Leagues I can think of that spend considerable time at or near the bottom ….one i regularly point to are the New York Jets who lurch from one crisis to another and haven’t got near a Championship in over 50 years …and this is in a League with a draft, transparent player wages and an enforced salary cap …the problem is that they have poor owners ( sound familiar ?) ..

Perfect case study

 

[Droppy05]

Perfect case study

Man U another club with poor owners!

 

[pawsandclaws1]

TDS is far better and we have put a lot of effort into him. He is next up.
Good on this other kid for playing decent footy in the juniors…maybe that will transform to senior footy and then top level one day.

Da Silva's manager has made this about Api v his client. Api is one of, if not the best hooker, in the NRL and certainly the best hooker at WTs. The club will make the call. Haywood re-signed with the club until end of 28.

 

[weststigers]

Yeah I know, I put Toa in the retention category.

Really, is Api the better player now? I said 2027. If TDS is still showing improvement and by the the time 2027 comes around, he definitely should be our number 9. And APi paid what he's worth, as a back up.


Is this a gee up? Are you serious?

Our retention and recruitment would has been and still is, one of the worst in the comp.

However, things seem to be improving

Come on mate, I’ve laid out the receipts in black and white. If you’re going to push back, bring something solid to the table.

And yeah, right now Api is clearly the better player. None of us know what 2027 will look like. You’re talking like it’s a guarantee that Tallyn will be the number one hooker by then, but how can anyone say that with certainty? We just don't know yet.

Form, injuries, development. So much can change. Let’s deal with what’s in front of us, not what we hope happens.

 

[clontarfkid]

You're giving him too much credit. It wasn't deliberate, he just f*cked up.

Inexperience + ego

 

[weststigers]

Yes I agree … it’s a joke and works against us most of the time

Actually Tom, I think this is the main issue rather than Api v Tallyn. Whichever side of the coin you are on, you are forced to gamble 18 months out. I think we could agree that both of us would just prefer we could make the call closer to the time.

 

[weststigers]

There are teams in all Leagues I can think of that spend considerable time at or near the bottom ….one i regularly point to are the New York Jets who lurch from one crisis to another and haven’t got near a Championship in over 50 years …and this is in a League with a draft, transparent player wages and an enforced salary cap …the problem is that they have poor owners ( sound familiar ?) ..

I was thinking about this the other day.

Our owners not only argue and embarrass the club perpetually, they don't invest the same as other clubs.

I wonder...a fan led non-profit that sponsored the club - at least we'd have transparency and know where the money went. Then who cares about the owners.

 

[Tom Shines]

There's a bit of assumption involved when we try to predict where Tallyn (or other juniors) will be in a couple of years. Everyone hopes he develops into a top-tier hooker, but that's not something we can bank on just yet. The point is, we don't need to rush a decision based on what might happen. What is the rush to dump Api when you don't have a crystal ball? 2 years is a long time in rugby league.

All I’m saying is we don't need to force a decision on Api just because Tallyn’s coming through. If Api is clearly on the decline and Tallyn overtakes him, then great, the decision sorts itself out.

What I’m cautious about is making a call now based solely on age or the assumption that young players improve in a straight, predictable line. Footy development isn’t always linear, and Api is still performing at a high level. Can't we let the form do the talking? Is Tallyn Da Silva the only hooker in the game? At 20 years old, they are still developing. I don't understand this rush to get them into full-time first grade at 19/20.

Also, just on a club culture thing, Api has earned the absolute right, through his loyalty, his actions on and off the field and ultimately his form to be re-signed. You don't dog a legend for some impatient upstart. Tallyn has done nothing in the game. An extra contract for a guy that makes a huge difference to our team is the least we can do. Let Api go on his own terms like the good clubs do it. As long as he's not letting us down in games.

Interesting …I’ve asked the question 3-4 times now how much longer they think Api will last past 2027 as the No 1 hooker …and no one wants to answer …. 2 more years most likely would be my guess … even that might be pushing it

I’ll be the first to say that Api has been a very rare fine purchase by the club…one of the best in its 25 yr history …. he has even outplayed in monetary terms the contract he was paid …I couldn’t be more respectful about his performance here ..

Having said that, I’m also a realist …. A dumb sounding cliche …but Father Time remains undefeated… Api is headed towards his mid thirties and we should expect a decline at any time …but certainly within 4 years max … Making an assumption “solely on age “ can also be interpreted as playing the percentages … players in their early /mid thirties tend to decline …

TDS has been one of our highly touted juniors ( another one) for a while now… unlike a lot of others ….he has shown some ability already at 20 at the NRL level …

It’s a tough call to make … and blame the dumb rules for forcing them to make it now … I want them to make the call based on which player come 2027 has the best upside… not on sentimentality about what a well paid player has previously given you, or trying to give some young cocky upstart a crack just because of what we have just gone through with Galvin …

 

[rihannafan1]

Did you forget about Mania Cherrington? He was first. Then it was a stop gap Godinet/McWrillwick after picking Liddle over Cherrington then it was Simpkin over Liddle then yeah the rest is correct.
Though, did we develop Farah to be a quality 9 or was he just a quality 9 to begin with and the best of the bunch?

I think Farah was the rare, talented player who actually wanted to be here.

 

[The Chad]

Interesting …I’ve asked the question 3-4 times now how much longer they think Api will last past 2027 as the No 1 hooker …and no one wants to answer …. 2 more years most likely would be my guess … even that might be pushing it

I’ll be the first to say that Api has been a very rare fine purchase by the club…one of the best in its 25 yr history …. he has even outplayed in monetary terms the contract he was paid …I couldn’t be more respectful about his performance here ..

Having said that, I’m also a realist …. A dumb sounding cliche …but Father Time remains undefeated… Api is headed towards his mid thirties and we should expect a decline at any time …but certainly within 4 years max … Making an assumption “solely on age “ can also be interpreted as playing the percentages … players in their early /mid thirties tend to decline …

TDS has been one of our highly touted juniors ( another one) for a while now… unlike a lot of others ….he has shown some ability already at 20 at the NRL level …

It’s a tough call to make … and blame the dumb rules for forcing them to make it now … I want them to make the call based on which player come 2027 has the best upside… not on sentimentality about what a well paid player has previously given you, or trying to give some young cocky upstart a crack just because of what we have just gone through with Galvin …

How long can Api remain elite?

I'd say 2 years is about it. He might still be serviceable beyond that. Hard to say, and as you point out- tough situation to be in.

Almost, a no-win situation.

Don't get me wrong, I want to hold on to TDS.

Put it this way- TDS is a safer bet than Haywood.

But.

Api is a safer bet than TDS.

And we are talking about the NRL 1st grade success over the next couple of seasons. Not winning the comp in 2030.

Certainly not discounting anyone's reservations about losing Da Silva.

But Api is the known tangible.

The others are not.

It's like dumping Luai in order to keep, say, Galvin because Galvin & Latu might be better.

Play what is in front of you. If we lose TDS, continue developing Haywood, add a player from outside & start the search for the guy that pushes Haywood through the juniors.

 

[The Chad]

I think Farah was the rare, talented player who actually wanted to be here.

Farah was the best option at #9 when the time came to make a decision.

They didn't let Darren Senter go because they had Farah in the pipeline for 2 years time.


This is where we are now.

TDS is not better than Api.

 

[Tom Shines]

How long can Api remain elite?

I'd say 2 years is about it. He might still be serviceable beyond that. Hard to say, and as you point out- tough situation to be in.

Almost, a no-win situation.

Don't get me wrong, I want to hold on to TDS.

Put it this way- TDS is a safer bet than Haywood.

But.

Api is a safer bet than TDS.

And we are talking about the NRL 1st grade success over the next couple of seasons. Not winning the comp in 2030.

Certainly not discounting anyone's reservations about losing Da Silva.

But Api is the known tangible.

The others are not.

It's like dumping Luai in order to keep, say, Galvin because Galvin & Latu might be better.

Play what is in front of you. If we lose TDS, continue developing Haywood, add a player from outside & start the search for the guy that pushes Haywood through the juniors.

So basically you want to throw away a kid ( local junior) you have developed and touted a few years now, who might be here another 10:years …all to get 2 more years out of a 34 yr old

 

[The Chad]

So basically you want to throw away a kid you have developed and touted a few years now, who might be here another 10:years …all to get 2 more years out of a 34 yr old

That dumbs down the argument, but playing your way, yes.

Reverse- you want to remove the player arguably the best at the club on the off chance that the guy who hasn't proven himself might one day be better?

 

[Tom Shines]

That dumbs down the argument, but playing your way, yes.

Reverse- you want to remove the player arguably the best at the club on the off chance that the guy who hasn't proven himself might one day be better?

It doesn’t “dumb down” the argument at all …that is what it comes down too…

Api is the best at the club now …he might have fallen off a cliff come 2027 …I’ve seen that happen a lot with 34 yr olds …particularly hookers that rely on a bit of zip over that first 10 yards as one of their main weapons….ill take the kid every time