Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[Tom Shines]

That dumbs down the argument, but playing your way, yes.

Reverse- you want to remove the player arguably the best at the club on the off chance that the guy who hasn't proven himself might one day be better?

It doesn’t “dumb down” the argument at all …that is what it comes down too…

Api is the best at the club now …he might have fallen off a cliff come 2027 …I’ve seen that happen a lot with 34 yr olds …particularly hookers that rely on a bit of zip over that first 10 yards as one of their main weapons….ill take the kid every time

 

[Oldman]

My genuine question to the ultra pro tds's out there is what makes you as sure as you are that he is a first grade hooker? Genuine question.

I see the odd flash of decent ball running, but I find his defense very poor in regards to first contact (I know that's a lot of our team) he misses a lot of tackles, and his options in attack aren't there IMO. This doesn't mean he won't be a great player, but in my eyes, he hasn't progressed beyond an apprentice yet. I think he needs a season or two to develop but like a lot of youngsters wants his time now.

Hodge
I agree TDS is still learning his trade and isn’t ready yet for long minutes on the field in NRL.
I also must say API’s attacking game is still top notch but his defence is a bit of a worry at times
especially now it looks like benji is leaving him on for 80 min again and not putting TDS in the 17.

By reports I have read said TDS stood out in NSW Cup last week but that doesn’t tell us anything other than he’s to good for that grade, IMO he needs to be in our 17 each week getting 20 minutes getting his game up to scratch for when he is required if API goes down and has to miss games.

 

[weststigers]

Interesting …I’ve asked the question 3-4 times now how much longer they think Api will last past 2027 as the No 1 hooker …and no one wants to answer …. 2 more years most likely would be my guess … even that might be pushing it

I’ll be the first to say that Api has been a very rare fine purchase by the club…one of the best in its 25 yr history …. he has even outplayed in monetary terms the contract he was paid …I couldn’t be more respectful about his performance here ..

Having said that, I’m also a realist …. A dumb sounding cliche …but Father Time remains undefeated… Api is headed towards his mid thirties and we should expect a decline at any time …but certainly within 4 years max … Making an assumption “solely on age “ can also be interpreted as playing the percentages … players in their early /mid thirties tend to decline …

TDS has been one of our highly touted juniors ( another one) for a while now… unlike a lot of others ….he has shown some ability already at 20 at the NRL level …

It’s a tough call to make … and blame the dumb rules for forcing them to make it now … I want them to make the call based on which player come 2027 has the best upside… not on sentimentality about what a well paid player has previously given you, or trying to give some young cocky upstart a crack just because of what we have just gone through with Galvin …

I think Api finishes his contract with us in 2026. Next season.

Another 2 years is probably the limit, but I don't want to go into 2027 with a young guy who's not quite there yet and an even younger guy as the backup. It's specifically this small time period that I worry about.

Overall, you are right. You can't keep extending him forever. His time will come, but the time period we are talking about is the razors edge of that decison. It's not as clear as say, the Klemmer decision.

I think we both understand where we are coming from and perhaps would make different calls. Heck, I'm not even saying going your way wouldn't be the right call to make. I think the difference is in how much risk I'm willing to take vs another and you compromise for Tallyn would be an extra year in waiting. Not much to ask in my opinion, and he'd be getting game time all the same. Players are consistently playing beyond 30. Particularly hookers, halves and props. You're not holding the kid back.

2028, I see Api being the 14 while Tallyn gets his fitness up or vice versa.

Depends how we run in those years. Tallyns issue now is he is a specialist 9, so teams will look for utility value at 14 rather than carry a 9 rotation. This contributes to his lack of game time or else he'd be the 14 for sure. Even Cam Smith could cover halfback in a crisis.

More broadly, most of our players are off contract by 2027 aren't they? We don't really know what the team makeup will be.

 

[The Chad]

It doesn’t “dumb down” the argument at all …that is what it comes down too…

Api is the best at the club now …he might have fallen off a cliff come 2027 …I’ve seen that happen a lot with 34 yr olds …particularly hookers that rely on a bit of zip over that first 10 yards as one of their main weapons….ill take the kid every time

It does dumb it down.

I've already said I'd rather keep him if we can. I'm hardly advocating 'throwing away' a player the way you put it.

But, if it comes down to Api vs TDS & I had to choose- I take Api.

Even your argument against is based on as much conjecture as the argument for letting TDS go.

"He MIGHT have fallen off a cliff come 2027....I've seen it happen a lot with 34 year olds" (quite specific on the age though. 😀

I'd suggest there is as much evidence for 20 year old players not fulfilling potential & exceeding the output of incumbent players to counter it.

I don't WANT to lose TDS. I just don't WANT to lose Api more.

 

[Tom Shines]

I think Api finishes his contract with us in 2026. Next season.

Another 2 years is probably the limit, but I don't want to go into 2027 with a young guy who's not quite there yet and an even younger guy as the backup. It's specifically this small time period that I worry about.

Overall, you are right. You can't keep extending him forever. His time will come, but the time period we are talking about is the razors edge of that decison. It's not as clear as say, the Klemmer decision.

I think we both understand where we are coming from and perhaps would make different calls. Heck, I'm not even saying going your way wouldn't be the right call to make. I think the difference is in how much risk I'm willing to take vs another and you compromise for Tallyn would be an extra year in waiting. Not much to ask in my opinion, and he'd be getting game time all the same. Players are consistently playing beyond 30. Particularly hookers, halves and props. You're not holding the kid back.

2028, I see Api being the 14 while Tallyn gets his fitness up or vice versa.

Depends how we run in those years. Tallyns issue now is he is a specialist 9, so teams will look for utility value at 14 rather than carry a 9 rotation. This contributes to his lack of game time or else he'd be the 14 for sure. Even Cam Smith could cover halfback in a crisis.

More broadly, most of our players are off contract by 2027 aren't they? We don't really know what the team makeup will be.

Api is here until end of 2026..

We’ll agree to disagree…I wish a compromise could be worked out …reading the tea leaves in what has been said publicly , I think the decision has been made and TDS is gone …the way these things tend to unfold ..he will probably be elsewhere next season..

 

[Tom Shines]

It does dumb it down.

I've already said I'd rather keep him if we can. I'm hardly advocating 'throwing away' a player the way you put it.

But, if it comes down to Api vs TDS & I had to choose- I take Api.

Even your argument against is based on as much conjecture as the argument for letting TDS go.

"He MIGHT have fallen off a cliff come 2027....I've seen it happen a lot with 34 year olds" (quite specific on the age though. 😀

I'd suggest there is as much evidence for 20 year old players not fulfilling potential & exceeding the output of incumbent players to counter it.

I don't WANT to lose TDS. I just don't WANT to lose Api more.

You don’t like it to be that specific … but thats what it appears to be coming down to ,..

I’m specific on the age because that’s how old he will be come 2027 🤪…

Who would have thought that arguing about something in 2027 is based on conjecture ? I wish I knew for sure what was going to happen in 2027 …probably wouldn’t be chewing the fat here as often I suspect

 

[The Chad]

Is it Jonah Pezet in Melbourne who has the clause in his contract that if Hughes & Munster stay on that he can get out of his contract? That's smart.

Re-sign Api & TDS, put a clause in TDS that if Api plays on beyond 2027 that TDS can move on if he gets an offer. Gives Api 2 more years, secures TDS & if Api plays until he's 43, TDS can go play for the Eels instead.

 

[TigerNeddyK]

TDS is far better and we have put a lot of effort into him. He is next up.
Good on this other kid for playing decent footy in the juniors…maybe that will transform to senior footy and then top level one day.

Heywood is a real footy player that could end up playing anywhere , similar to Bailey Hayward and the dogs . We really should be able to keep TDS here as he wants to be here, loves the club and will be able to negotiate a career with a hand off from API

 

[rihannafan1]

Farah was the best option at #9 when the time came to make a decision.

They didn't let Darren Senter go because they had Farah in the pipeline for 2 years time.


This is where we are now.

TDS is not better than Api.

I agree. The game sure has changed. Farah was loyal and i dont think he would have been asking for much. TDS hasn't done much for his agent to pout, imo.

 

[clontarfkid]

Heywood is a real footy player that could end up playing anywhere , similar to Bailey Hayward and the dogs . We really should be able to keep TDS here as he wants to be here, loves the club and will be able to negotiate a career with a hand off from API

Im very ok for them both to stay until end 27 ...TDS longer ...with a guaranteed starting spot for TDS in 27...and if that doesnt happen he has a get out clause.
Pay them both accordingly ie generously in the case of TDS..weve wasted $$ on lesser
If he hasnt leapfrogged Api by then.he never will

 

[Winston Churchill]

Interesting …I’ve asked the question 3-4 times now how much longer they think Api will last past 2027 as the No 1 hooker …and no one wants to answer …. 2 more years most likely would be my guess … even that might be pushing it

I’ll be the first to say that Api has been a very rare fine purchase by the club…one of the best in its 25 yr history …. he has even outplayed in monetary terms the contract he was paid …I couldn’t be more respectful about his performance here ..

Having said that, I’m also a realist …. A dumb sounding cliche …but Father Time remains undefeated… Api is headed towards his mid thirties and we should expect a decline at any time …but certainly within 4 years max … Making an assumption “solely on age “ can also be interpreted as playing the percentages … players in their early /mid thirties tend to decline …

TDS has been one of our highly touted juniors ( another one) for a while now… unlike a lot of others ….he has shown some ability already at 20 at the NRL level …

It’s a tough call to make … and blame the dumb rules for forcing them to make it now … I want them to make the call based on which player come 2027 has the best upside… not on sentimentality about what a well paid player has previously given you, or trying to give some young cocky upstart a crack just because of what we have just gone through with Galvin …

Winston already correctly answered it in post #529 of the TDS thread.

 

[Odessa]

Interesting …I’ve asked the question 3-4 times now how much longer they think Api will last past 2027 as the No 1 hooker …and no one wants to answer …. 2 more years most likely would be my guess … even that might be pushing it

I’ll be the first to say that Api has been a very rare fine purchase by the club…one of the best in its 25 yr history …. he has even outplayed in monetary terms the contract he was paid …I couldn’t be more respectful about his performance here ..

Having said that, I’m also a realist …. A dumb sounding cliche …but Father Time remains undefeated… Api is headed towards his mid thirties and we should expect a decline at any time …but certainly within 4 years max … Making an assumption “solely on age “ can also be interpreted as playing the percentages … players in their early /mid thirties tend to decline …

TDS has been one of our highly touted juniors ( another one) for a while now… unlike a lot of others ….he has shown some ability already at 20 at the NRL level …

It’s a tough call to make … and blame the dumb rules for forcing them to make it now … I want them to make the call based on which player come 2027 has the best upside… not on sentimentality about what a well paid player has previously given you, or trying to give some young cocky upstart a crack just because of what we have just gone through with Galvin …

Couldn't you pay api some money from this year's cap give him a contract for 27 and 28 but 28 at a lower rate and tell him that he will be be playing 14 in 28

And see how he feels about it

 

[Needaname]

At this Stage Api has his nose well in front and should be respected for that. But in terms of retention why does the club have to give priority to either of the players that is the coaches job to pick the best 17. I would look at a 1+1y mutual contract for Api and I would look at a 1+2y player option for TDS. If Api is retained mutually then TDS has the option to leave or the take the security of 2 years to follow knowing that he will still end up on top with the extra contracted year.

 

[Needaname]

I guess in saying that Haywood can do the job in the future I don’t think there is anyone behind Haywood that can be brought in in say 4 years time if he end up being the primary hooker we would have to recruit anyway. Unless I’m mistaken and there is another gun hooker in the juniors not quite being spoken about at the moment.

 

[batboy]

True, for all the talk of being a development club atm our development sucks, apart from Talyn, who has come through the Macarthur region that we identified and brought through. Last I can remember who kicked on was Tedesco. There's more than likely others iv forgotten but we don't produce much at all at the moment. We generally would get them young and bring them in. No doubt Richo is working on trying to sort it, so it'll take a few years for the results to show. But really he needs to go to HBG and say your a not for profit start dumping money into our junior development, pathways and scouting networks.

The old Harvey Norman Womens coach mentioned it the other day in a Podcast
Something along the lines of They're bigging up the talent in the South West
- But there's not that much out there.

Made me think, For the size of the area - And it's growth trajectory...
Where's all the kids?

We're here talking about half a dozen of them and a couple that have already gone.

 

[liltiger]

The old Harvey Norman Womens coach mentioned it the other day in a Podcast
Something along the lines of They're bigging up the talent in the South West
- But there's not that much out there.

Made me think, For the size of the area - And it's growth trajectory...
Where's all the kids?

We're here talking about half a dozen of them and a couple that have already gone.

If there isn't much then imo we are either bad at identifying the talent or we are way too slow at identifying it and grabbing it before other clubs do.

 

[Droppy05]

Is it Jonah Pezet in Melbourne who has the clause in his contract that if Hughes & Munster stay on that he can get out of his contract? That's smart.

Re-sign Api & TDS, put a clause in TDS that if Api plays on beyond 2027 that TDS can move on if he gets an offer. Gives Api 2 more years, secures TDS & if Api plays until he's 43, TDS can go play for the Eels instead.

Thats fine if TDS agrees. I doubt that he wants to wait in the wings for 2 years. Especially with new teams coming into the comp.

 

[tigerballs]

In all honesty- this attitude is worse.

Don't want to come across as a nay sayer, but if this is your reason for signing in, it's just making it rubbish for the rest of us.

Yeah, sorry Chad. A bit childish, I know.

 

[mikey]

Da Silva's manager has made this about Api v his client. Api is one of, if not the best hooker, in the NRL and certainly the best hooker at WTs. The club will make the call. Haywood re-signed with the club until end of 28.

The thing that put me TDS is it went public. Telling the club privately is one thing but a gun to the head in the press? He's dead to me if that's the way he wants to go about business.

 

[clontarfkid]

Thats fine if TDS agrees. I doubt that he wants to wait in the wings for 2 years. Especially with new teams coming into the comp.

He needs one more year as an apprentice..he understandably wont wait any longer..ang again we dont have options unless Api does a Benjamin Button.Id keep him as a back up for 27
Cameron Smith played on until he was 100...but a different role and not as Physically involved as Api