Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[Russell]

So let’s see?
Playing in the GF
Or the bottom 3 ?
Not bad
Would walk straight into our so called top 30

Mate - this is a "Signing, suggestions and Rumours" thread.

Don't think we are signing Marshall again or there are any rumours to that effect.

There is a Marshall thread or you could use the "Lament" thread"

 

[Russell]

Please
What’s AD done so far
That’s why South’s let him go…. Great call

Would give you a negative - however we are talking about this decade.

 

[jirskyr]

I’ve said this before , but we are one of the only elite competitions in the world , without a draft to go with the salary cap . Either don’t have a salary cap , and have all salaries public knowledge , or have a draft to help with the cap .

The NSWRL introduced a draft in 1991. Some players and coaches challenged it in the courts and the High Court upheld the challenge and the draft was thrown out. It lasted a year.

Fast forward to today. Imagine, say, Easts and other glamour clubs being denied the opportunity to pick the eyes out of the best juniors. How long before Polites challenged it in the courts ?

The only reason a draft works in the AFL is because everybody is prepared to accept it. It wouldn't survive if it were challenged in the courts.

That is not necessarily true, restraints of trade can win court challenges if they can be proven to be fair and reasonable. Examples of arguments for fair and reasonable restraints of trade include that they are important for the viability of the organisation and thus actually protect wages. It is why the salary cap would likely survive a legal challenge. If a sporting organisation could argue that the competition is more viable because of a draft than it could possibly survive a legal challenge.

It will never carry unless the RLPA supports a draft, and it's not in their interests to do so.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

You know who the real winners of this GF are?
The Dogs and the Broncos.

Who said we needed a draft?

We do. And the AFL system , still works both with academies and the draft .

The best players nominate themselves , for financial and top 30 reasons . Say a 3 round draft ? That’s 51 players .
The rest remain in their currrent academies , or sign contracts if not taken .
You have protections , like the father son rule to protect legacy names .
And if a team wants to keep their academy player , they trade their draft picks to whoever picks them etc .
If say the next Benji gets picked at 1, and he’s ours , then there’s predetermined trades that allow us to retain our asset, if he’s a generational player. Say 3 years of 1st round picks, obviously forfeiting the right to retain for those 3 years .
Or something of that ilk . It’s complicated , but scratches all backs.
And if a player won’t leave , then the team who retains his rights say , the next Benji , as an example , then we’d have to trade assets to retain etc .
I think you’d find , for most kids , the lure of big dollars , and a guaranteed top 30 contract , plus the prestige of getting picked , would negate any of the “I’m not going “ chat .
Plus don’t pick that player . Pick another one who is willing .
This happens ALLL THE TIME in the MLB draft , which contracts
Predetermined for that draft slot.

No we don’t. Potentially a rookie draft for any player not signed to a dev contract or a top 30 contract.
Penrith have proven that you don’t need to recuit Marquess for success, they are only doing what Melbourne figured out all those years ago in 2002.

Melbourne paid Hoffman , a then 16 year old , 170k to go to their system . Same for Inglis and Folau . That was unheard of , until the sharks paid Karl Filiga 200k , I believe ad a 17 year old. So no , they didn’t sign nobodies , they invested in the right juniors , and they should be commended , but a lot of the time that meant actual dollars for the family not just the systems. Sheesh the roosters just paid that kid from south’s close to a mil , and he hadn t played a game yet of u20s .

The current system is broken, and only benefits the few .

If they are signing onto first grade contracts. That is fair game. If they are paying a Ronald Volkman $50k to stick around in the 20s that’s a different story.

Were the above mentioned kids signed onto first grade contracts?


I personally wouldn’t care if I knew the roosters were paying 13 mil for thier team and we were paying 9.5. I would know , and adjust my expectations accordingly .

So because you know what we’re paying Vs the opposition it’s makes you feel better that we’d get belted forever? I agree, the salary cap is flawed but we need something to try to even the playing field.

We only want a level playing field because we can't compete. There's a salary cap and the NRL cover that. It's not a level playing field because we're at terribly run. How do the NRL stop that?

Agreed, if we had of kept ‘the big four’ we would prob be a consistent top eight side

Absolutely!! If we had great juniors coming through and were in the top 4 , no one here would be asking for a draft and wanting a level playing field. We just want the governing body to help us out. It's pathetic.

Sorry man , I ? disagree . I’ve been on the side of the draft for longer periods than the Benji era , and this last 10 years . I hate how it’s turned into the premier league .
If you mess up , or hire the wrong person in the NRL, you’ve killed your franchise . It’s ridiculous . And there’s no Avenue out , unless you win the geographical lottery , with some amazing talent .
Even then the best kids are fed at a very early age , from managers and hangers on to go to the big clubs .
It’s a never ending cycle of mediocrity .
Name a team that’s pulled themselves out of the sewer ? the knights right ? after all their spending , they managed 7th , and Pongas contract is up soon . They literally tanked for 5 years to move up to 7th . And if ponga leaves , then it’s straight back to the bottom .
Taking your tigers hat off for a second , fans are checking out ,because of this , The premier league even offers relegation and promotion , 2 cups , and European honours , for 2 leagues . So there’s consolation prizes ,and reasons for fans to be invested .
There’s nothing in the NRL, and basically having every team compete for the best talent , means the best talent goes to the best team .
People around my age group aren’t talking about footy anymore . Not really . I remember it just being talked about everywhere all the time . You can say it’s the rule changes , sure , but no one wants to see Melbourne vs whoever every year . Or the roosters , or south’s , and now Penrith have taken advantage of the regional pride that’s always existed there .
That pride doesn’t exist in Ctown . People have either moved their , or , they grew up and are looking for greener pastures . It’s not a judgement , but it’s the same reason the magpies , and now us , the tigers have failed to get a foothold . It’s the reason MacArthur won’t don’t much etc .
What about Gold Coast ? Canberra ? bulldogs ? St George ? Cronulla and manly , are geographically blessed , and cursed at the time . They will always attract talent because of geography , but their resources are finite because of geography .
There’s a rot in this competition. There’s no parity .
S

 

[Demps]

I cannot understand how anybody can watch what Madge says and the product we put out on the field, and think he's a good coach. The fact he hasn't dropped Brooks once in his 3 years here says it all. Worst player in first grade can play like an absolute donkey and yet is guaranteed to be in the 17 the next week.

Sheens with someone like John Morris as assistant should've been the go. Let Sheens put the systems in place and oversee things like Bennett, and have Morris run the day to day. Kind of like how Souths are doing now with Bennett and Demetriou. Seems to be working pretty well for them. We obviously don't have the luxury of the rep players they have, but at least having some direction and a coach who doesn't discourage players from wanting to play at a club would help.

Ivan brought in Mbye

Madge brought in Tamou


Two guys who are not captain material and left their hearts at their previous clubs.

Why is it so hard to identify a real leader ?

Like honestly... even @GNR4LIFE s favourite player David Nofoaluma is more captain material than those two frauds.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

No I’d give Sheens a little more time. I think it will take more than 1 season to undo all the damage Maguire has done. Sheens got us to a grand final victory year 3, **Madge got us to a 38-0 loss against the wooden spooners**. Ouch.

If we’re winning I’d be happy for them to extend him, but he’d probably want to go into a role where he has some influence and is an actual coach rather than a puppet.

That’s true, but you didn’t mention we had half the FG squad out, (Laurie, Talau, Doueihi, Mbye, Seyfarth, Tamou, Garner, Musgrove, did I miss anyone else?) and the young blokes showed they weren’t up to the task?

But that is the problem with you anti Madge blokes (take your blinkers off) you are prepared to let someone else come in just as the hard is nearly done and take the glory, (similar to what Cleary is doing) you think Sheens is the messiah, he failed here and by all accounts in most footy roles he’s had.
If the club really thought he was, he would have been given the job.

You’re kidding yourself if you think anyone, never mind one of the best coaches in the country, would coach under those circumstances especially to someone who hasn’t been involved in the Australian game for a decade?

Hint: look at our roster and tell me why we aren’t being more successful?

I’m not sure why you’re being so over sensitive. It should be about what’s best for the club. If Sheens and the assistants can improve the performances isn’t that what we should be looking for? Madge clearly has failed but it’s not the end of the world.

As for Sheens, we won a premiership and made the finals three times under him. That’s three more than any other coach and I’m excited to have him back in control of coaching matters.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

Wonder if we'll sign anyone or just talk about people we didn't sign in the past

That would be good!

 

[Russell]

All this discussion is useless if the players have no heart and continues to give up in games.

This is a culture issue.

Maguire is the leader and should be driving cultural change. I guess it's only been 3 years and according to many the culture is still garbage. What does that tell you?

It tells you it takes a long time to fix a rotten culture and you need the support of everyone to do it.

Or, that there is nothing wrong with the culture in the joint and it is being used as an excuse.


I would think only making the playoffs 3 times since the merger over 20 years ago would put that many holes in your theory even a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter would find it hard to believe it especially considering 50% of the teams make it every year

We're a merge of two clubs that always had to fight hard to field competitive teams. Making the playoffs 3 times in 20 years is perhaps indicative of that fact. It doesn't lesson my support for WTs, Balmain or Wests.

We were on the verge of a being highly competitive a few years ago with the emergence of highly talents juniors. I am glad we are revisiting that strategy.

To blame it on our culture is a furphy.

So being a retirement destination and taking payments and not putting in is not a culture issue. Ok.

The word culture gets tossed about so frequently on this forum that it eventually becomes a truth.

The desertion of Australian troops was the reason for the fall of Singapore in Feb 42 if you believed folklore. It was repeated so often it became a fact to many but it was not the truth.

The club has brought in a coaching director and is hiring two new assistants. Actions v words.

Culture:
The ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

Wests Tigers culture has been crap for over a decade, even longer. The current coach is trying to change that. It takes time to overcome a decade+ of rubbish.

Why did he bring in Bj and Jimmy the jet then. Not sure they are the blokes you want to change the culture within your club.

Low cost risk.

Whats cost got to do with culture. Surely its about getting the right blokes in your squad. What they get payed is irrelevant.

Tell the NRL on Cap situations that "cost is irrelevant"

BJ, JTJ and Joffa were the best we could afford. Unfortunately it didn't work out.

 

[yeahcaz]

Wonder if we'll sign anyone or just talk about people we didn't sign in the past

Like Arsenal without the historic success

 

[Russell]

See the difference…
Benji has done and still doing everything in Rugby League at his age.
Let’s see if AD is still running around in 15 years
And even with this club,as at the moment we have no chance playing in the Semifinals let alone Grand Finals

??

Plays off the bench for a team that rarely misses the finals.

Put Moltzen in that 14 jersey and he'd look satisfactory too.

Benji #1 fan over here.

Benji was and still remains one of the greats at WTs and in the NRL. A generation of kids grew up trying to imitate that fantastic step. He will always remain a WTs' great no matter how many supporters on this Forum attempt to rewrite history. And Moltzen was a really good footballer. Try playing with a metal plate in your skull. That young man has a lot of guts. He also is a favourite of mine.

Agree. We talk about building culture here but we continually under value our players. The disgusting way Robbie Farah was treated in the past & how Benj was let go last year is the problem. If young up & coming kids see how our club greats are disrespected, why would they want to play here? Although Benji was past his best, what he could teach our development players was worth his contract price alone, not to mention instilling his passion for the Tigers as well. Instead, Bennett & Souths have got that value, and they did not put one cent into developing Benji as a junior. Until we realize the true value of all our players , both past ,present & juniors coming through, we will be in this situation for years to come.

Downvote - just so you know who it is.

 

[batboy]

All this discussion is useless if the players have no heart and continues to give up in games.

This is a culture issue.

Maguire is the leader and should be driving cultural change. I guess it's only been 3 years and according to many the culture is still garbage. What does that tell you?

It tells you it takes a long time to fix a rotten culture and you need the support of everyone to do it.

Or, that there is nothing wrong with the culture in the joint and it is being used as an excuse.


I would think only making the playoffs 3 times since the merger over 20 years ago would put that many holes in your theory even a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter would find it hard to believe it especially considering 50% of the teams make it every year

We're a merge of two clubs that always had to fight hard to field competitive teams. Making the playoffs 3 times in 20 years is perhaps indicative of that fact. It doesn't lesson my support for WTs, Balmain or Wests.

We were on the verge of a being highly competitive a few years ago with the emergence of highly talents juniors. I am glad we are revisiting that strategy.

To blame it on our culture is a furphy.

So being a retirement destination and taking payments and not putting in is not a culture issue. Ok.

The word culture gets tossed about so frequently on this forum that it eventually becomes a truth.

The desertion of Australian troops was the reason for the fall of Singapore in Feb 42 if you believed folklore. It was repeated so often it became a fact to many but it was not the truth.

The club has brought in a coaching director and is hiring two new assistants. Actions v words.

Culture:
The ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

Wests Tigers culture has been crap for over a decade, even longer. The current coach is trying to change that. It takes time to overcome a decade+ of rubbish.

Why did he bring in Bj and Jimmy the jet then. Not sure they are the blokes you want to change the culture within your club.

Low cost risk.

Whats cost got to do with culture. Surely its about getting the right blokes in your squad. What they get payed is irrelevant.

Tell the NRL on Cap situations that "cost is irrelevant"

BJ, JTJ and Joffa were the best we could afford. Unfortunately it didn't work out.

Point...
Not BJ so much - But James Roberts was worth the punt for the deal we got.
(May still be if he sorts himself)

 

[TYGA]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

No I’d give Sheens a little more time. I think it will take more than 1 season to undo all the damage Maguire has done. Sheens got us to a grand final victory year 3, Madge got us to a 38-0 loss against the wooden spooners. Ouch.

If we’re winning I’d be happy for them to extend him, but he’d probably want to go into a role where he has some influence and is an actual coach rather than a puppet.

I don’t think you understand the problem. Tigers lost al their best juniors and haven’t developed players in years. We don’t have the players to bring through. Sheens has to fix pathways whether it’s Madge or anyone else he can only play who is signed. Coaching is not the issue it’s a cop out or agenda based narrative.

The loss of our best players started under the Go administration and then continued under Pascoe with the panic buying and short term approach.
The problem people in charge with no idea about rugby league.

I would have sacked Pascoe and appointed someone who has run footy clubs ie Richardson, Ribot, John Quayle. Enough of the corporate stuff the club is financially viable it will be crippled if we continue to run bottom 4.

 

[Russell]

I don't know how any coach or team can recruit or prepare for next year after watching this week's semis.
What will the rules be?
Because this weekend was a different set of rules to most of the comp.
So what set of rules will apply next year?

More to the point....

You said "a different set of rules to most of the comp"

I say, this weekend, it was also a different set of rules for one team than the other in each game.

The NRL need to put the cleaners through the referees and the idiots in the box.

If Vlandys thinks that Sutton and Klein are the best of the referees - the NRL have a MAJOR PROBLEM.

 

[Russell]

Just read in the tele that Eels are in negotiations for Nick Cotric. Lets hope we are too. Would be a big improvement in the centres for us.

Let's hope the Eels get him.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

No I’d give Sheens a little more time. I think it will take more than 1 season to undo all the damage Maguire has done. Sheens got us to a grand final victory year 3, Madge got us to a 38-0 loss against the wooden spooners. Ouch.

If we’re winning I’d be happy for them to extend him, but he’d probably want to go into a role where he has some influence and is an actual coach rather than a puppet.

I don’t think you understand the problem. Tigers lost al their best juniors and haven’t developed players in years. We don’t have the players to bring through. Sheens has to fix pathways whether it’s Madge or anyone else he can only play who is signed. Coaching is not the issue it’s a cop out or agenda based narrative.

The loss of our best players started under the Go administration and then continued under Pascoe with the panic buying and short term approach.
The problem people in charge with no idea about rugby league.

I would have sacked Pascoe and appointed someone who has run footy clubs ie Richardson, Ribot, John Quayle. Enough of the corporate stuff the club is financially viable it will be crippled if we continue to run bottom 4.

I understand the problem, or I should say problems with the club. I’m not for a minute saying we have a great roster, but they don’t look like they’re coached. He’s been there for 3 years and we’ve seen no improvement in any aspect of the team. There is no evidence of defensive structure and they are clunky in attack. I am happy to get rid of Pascoe too, I think a lot of people are responsible for the mess we’re in, but the way the team plays every week is on Madge imo.

 

[Russell]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

Well if Madge is a puppet and we fail in 2022, then it should be Sheens head on the chopping block.

Can't have it both ways.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

Well time will tell the tale. It’s obvious that Madge has about 8 months to show results.
I agree it’s not going to be easy as everyone has put us in a too hard basket.
But being an optimist perhaps this group with a few tweaks around the roster can get us in better position next year.
Really our defence sucks a and that would be my number one priority.
Win a few early games get confidence up and things could change.
For me a good tough experienced centre 3/4, second row forward and ball playing lock are essential.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

With the new QLD team for 2023 it just made it even harder for us to pickup quality players at the right price (even if we could). We are effectively now stuck on the new mantra of develop from within . Is Madge the coach to motivate and develop youth?

The reality is, we're going to struggle to attract players while Maguire remains as head coach.

Or under any other coach as we have seen previously

More so with Madge unfortunately.

You could be right. I feel it’s more the decision by the club that they won’t pay overs. If we offered huge money to the players we missed they would be here IMO

From what I'm hearing out of the WT camp I'm not wrong. The club doesn't know which way is up and Maguire has only managed to survive because WT couldn't get the coach they wanted.

Well he was the one who signed all the good ones currently filling our roster out . I think he’s the right guy , he just needs to accept he’s moved the “manager” role , that happens when these guys get older. The smart ones surround themselves with guys who are fresh with fresh ideas .
That’s his real issue. He still thinks it’s 2011 and he’s the fresh new coach . That’s 10 years ago. Might as well be 1980 , with the speed of which tactics and the game moves.


Agree 100% . Hope he can change and we can hire some assistants that can move from on from 2011 tactics and also be given the chance to be the next head coach and not smothered by self protection like he has done the past couple of years with Snoop and Millard. Even the KOE coach who people are impressed by came from a prior association with Madge.

Hopefully Madge now realised that self protection mode will more than likely lead to being sacked quicker than being white. Anted

Epiphany? Parting of the sea?


Is that not what he’s being doing the last 3 years? My point is if he gets the right assistants maybe we’ll see some progress.

Our only hope is Sheens and the new assistants.

I agree. With little change in roster the only improvement will come from coaching. It’s critical they sign some excellent assistant coaches in order to help Sheens get the most out of the squad.

You're just cheesed off because your endless posting to remove the coach didn't get anywhere.

Sheens wont be and will never be coach, we all know it, you're just trolling again.

Not trolling at all, if they thought Madge had any semblance of competence they wouldn’t have Sheens sitting above him and have new assistants chosen for him. Willow even said last night we only kept him because we couldn’t get who we wanted. The board has no confidence in him.

He essentially has had all his power taken away from him and he’ll just be a puppet moving forward. A coach in name only. It’s all down to Sheens and the assistants now to see if we can improve the club. If they can somehow dig us out of the hole Madge has created it will be a great achievement.

Looking forward to 2022

If that's what u need to tell yourself

I’m sorry if it upsets you Tony but It’s fairly obvious what the club is doing with the coaching moving forward. They could see having Madge in control was doomed to fail so they’ve made the necessary changes. Hope it works.

So with your model, if the club fails next season, then it’s Sheen’s fault?
You do realise, that when we are successful next year, they will probably extend Madge’s contract, don’t you?

You lost your crusade, live with it.

Well if Madge is a puppet and we fail in 2022, then it should be Sheens head on the chopping block.

Can't have it both ways.

Why should Sheens get only 1 year when Madge has had 3?

 

[AL The Tiger]

I cannot understand how anybody can watch what Madge says and the product we put out on the field, and think he's a good coach. The fact he hasn't dropped Brooks once in his 3 years here says it all. Worst player in first grade can play like an absolute donkey and yet is guaranteed to be in the 17 the next week.

Sheens with someone like John Morris as assistant should've been the go. Let Sheens put the systems in place and oversee things like Bennett, and have Morris run the day to day. Kind of like how Souths are doing now with Bennett and Demetriou. Seems to be working pretty well for them. We obviously don't have the luxury of the rep players they have, but at least having some direction and a coach who doesn't discourage players from wanting to play at a club would help.

Madge did drop Brooks last season. And he was met with criticism for it with the media saying he was constantly "chopping and changing" his combinations. Seems like the bloke can't win really

 

[Harvey]

You know who the real winners of this GF are?
The Dogs and the Broncos.

Who said we needed a draft?

We do. And the AFL system , still works both with academies and the draft .

The best players nominate themselves , for financial and top 30 reasons . Say a 3 round draft ? That’s 51 players .
The rest remain in their currrent academies , or sign contracts if not taken .
You have protections , like the father son rule to protect legacy names .
And if a team wants to keep their academy player , they trade their draft picks to whoever picks them etc .
If say the next Benji gets picked at 1, and he’s ours , then there’s predetermined trades that allow us to retain our asset, if he’s a generational player. Say 3 years of 1st round picks, obviously forfeiting the right to retain for those 3 years .
Or something of that ilk . It’s complicated , but scratches all backs.
And if a player won’t leave , then the team who retains his rights say , the next Benji , as an example , then we’d have to trade assets to retain etc .
I think you’d find , for most kids , the lure of big dollars , and a guaranteed top 30 contract , plus the prestige of getting picked , would negate any of the “I’m not going “ chat .
Plus don’t pick that player . Pick another one who is willing .
This happens ALLL THE TIME in the MLB draft , which contracts
Predetermined for that draft slot.

No we don’t. Potentially a rookie draft for any player not signed to a dev contract or a top 30 contract.
Penrith have proven that you don’t need to recuit Marquess for success, they are only doing what Melbourne figured out all those years ago in 2002.

Melbourne paid Hoffman , a then 16 year old , 170k to go to their system . Same for Inglis and Folau . That was unheard of , until the sharks paid Karl Filiga 200k , I believe ad a 17 year old. So no , they didn’t sign nobodies , they invested in the right juniors , and they should be commended , but a lot of the time that meant actual dollars for the family not just the systems. Sheesh the roosters just paid that kid from south’s close to a mil , and he hadn t played a game yet of u20s .

The current system is broken, and only benefits the few .

If they are signing onto first grade contracts. That is fair game. If they are paying a Ronald Volkman $50k to stick around in the 20s that’s a different story.

Were the above mentioned kids signed onto first grade contracts?


I personally wouldn’t care if I knew the roosters were paying 13 mil for thier team and we were paying 9.5. I would know , and adjust my expectations accordingly .

So because you know what we’re paying Vs the opposition it’s makes you feel better that we’d get belted forever? I agree, the salary cap is flawed but we need something to try to even the playing field.

We only want a level playing field because we can't compete. There's a salary cap and the NRL cover that. It's not a level playing field because we're at terribly run. How do the NRL stop that?

Agreed, if we had of kept ‘the big four’ we would prob be a consistent top eight side

Would we have been better this year if we had not let Matterson & Aloiai walk out on valid contracts? Who signed off on that decision?