Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

batboy said:
Warbrick will have eclipsed him by mid next year...
Not just Physically.
(Has already IMO)

To'o is a one trick pony - Can make dirty yards....
Limited Speed Wise, Limited in the Air.
I'd rather have a Winger that doesn't make quite as many yards - but is faster, bigger and better with the high ball.
He just doesn't get challenged in the air as much at Penrith as he would elsewhere simply because most teams that play Penrith are kicking from well inside their own half.

Overall,
The Panthers game makes him look much better than he is,
And he costs too much. Anyone talking about buying a Winger for 900k is on Crack.
- We'd be buying a contract the panthers could do without.
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To’o a significantly better defensive winger than Warbrick and I get that it’s your opinion but there’s simply no way he is better than Brian.

If he was so limited in the air, it would be spoken about a lot during this time of the season as these teams actually do spend time in Penriths 20 and it’s basically a non factor. Also why would you want a winger that’s better under the high ball when that’s evidently not our style of play ? The only 2 teams that come to mind that consistently put the ball up for their wingers are Storm and Roosters.

Only player in origin history to average 200 metres a series for 3 straight series. The shouts of system based and just a winger are factually wrong. Not to mention the signing would be a cultural shift for the club. None of these jokers we currently employ have the right to complain about any player of his calibre making that much money
 
hodgo said:
A couple of things

If the To'o info is accurate ( thanks for the info anyway Odessa) he wont be saying anything until the finals are done.
Added to that I actually am starting to believe forwards arent as important as they used to be. The good teams generate most of their yardage from their back 5. the main purpose of the forwards is defence and compressing defensive lines to create space.

The top 30ish in runs per game and meters per game are mainly backs.

I personally think that's where your money needs to be heavily invested. A back 5 of bula, turuva, skelton too and other centre is pretty dynamic.
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I think forwards are as important as ever. As you say their main purpose is defence. That defence then forces long kicks which allows the wingers and fullbacks easy carries. To'o may be the best in the game at what he does, but even he goes nowhere on the odd occasion an opposition team managers to pin the Panthers in the corner.
Case in point, everyone (with the possible exception of Staines) that has played in the back 3 for Penrith the last 4 years has made huge running metres. That list includes Daine Laurie regularly running 250m+ at fullback, Caleb Aikens topping 300m in a game at fullback as well as May and Turuva on the wing in their rookie years.

Canadian Club said:
Some interesting stats around run metres for wingers as opposed to props and how it translates to winning

Top 5 Wingers for Metres 2024:

Jacob Kiraz (Bulldogs) - Finals
Brian To’o (Panthers) - Finals
Greg Marzhew (Knights) - Finals
Kyle Feldt (Cowboys) - Finals
Daniel Tupou (Roosters) - Finals

Top 5 Props for Metres 2024:
Addin Fonua-Blake (Warriors) - Missed Finals
Joseph Tapine (Raiders) - Missed Finals
Mitchell Barnett (Warriors) - Missed Finals
Jack De Belin (Dragons) - Missed Finals
Corey Jensen/RCG (Broncos/Eels) - both missed finals
Click to expand...
Instead of comparing running metres of the top props and top wingers and their correlation with success. I'd like to see the correlation of average set distance conceded, average metres gained from back 3 and success.

Of course there is the reverse argument that the forwards can only defend as well as they do as they are fresher due to the yardage work of the backs. It is kind of chicken and egg. I think it shows you need strength across the park and can't rely on just good backs or just good forwards.
 
batboy said:
Warbrick will have eclipsed him by mid next year...
Not just Physically.
(Has already IMO)

To'o is a one trick pony - Can make dirty yards....
Limited Speed Wise, Limited in the Air.
I'd rather have a Winger that doesn't make quite as many yards - but is faster, bigger and better with the high ball.
He just doesn't get challenged in the air as much at Penrith as he would elsewhere simply because most teams that play Penrith are kicking from well inside their own half.

Overall,
The Panthers game makes him look much better than he is,
And he costs too much. Anyone talking about buying a Winger for 900k is on Crack.
- We'd be buying a contract the panthers could do without.
Click to expand...
I know what you’re saying but he has been invaluable for Penrith and the Blues. My worry signing him would be more about the pounding his body has taken playing a very physical style of football and maybe he will start to decline.

I would be saving that roster position for one of the kids who will be ready in two years
 
Flippedy said:
Great post! I think wingers are worth a lot more than people give them credit for, for all the reasons you posted above. I’d pay a million bucks for To’o. How long has it been since we had a winger of his class? It was the short lived career of Tuiaki, since then we have floundered with defensively inept mediocre wingers.

I don’t know if there is any truth to him actually coming here, but geez what a coup if we could land him and Luai in the same season. We would definitely be a changed team if this were to happen.
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We don’t win a premiership without Patty in 05’

The right wingers can be much more valuable than they get credit for.
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
Enjoy your insights @jrtiger what you say does make me wonder about Latu Fainu as a new generation lock!

His ball-playing & link work would be without question. He is actually remarkably strong for his age & size particularly in the legs so he could add acceleration & tackle busting through the middle. And I have heard he is one of the better wrestlers in our squad and a few more pre-seasons to add a bit of size.

Latu has good tackling technique around the waist & legs so he could be our 'low tackling' middle with the 2nd/3rd man up high engaging in the wrestle.

He's not dissimilar in style to Karl Oloapu of the Bulldogs who Gus has wanted to evolve into a lock & some do rate Gus as a good judge lol
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But can he hit ? Something the best forwards do as well as the above is consistently win the contact and hurt in defence. When teams play us, there’s no one in the pack where they’ll think “don’t run at him” and that’s sorely missed
 
BlackWhiteGold said:
Enjoy your insights @jrtiger what you say does make me wonder about Latu Fainu as a new generation lock!

His ball-playing & link work would be without question. He is actually remarkably strong for his age & size particularly in the legs so he could add acceleration & tackle busting through the middle. And I have heard he is one of the better wrestlers in our squad and a few more pre-seasons to add a bit of size.

Latu has good tackling technique around the waist & legs so he could be our 'low tackling' middle with the 2nd/3rd man up high engaging in the wrestle.

He's not dissimilar in style to Karl Oloapu of the Bulldogs who Gus has wanted to evolve into a lock & some do rate Gus as a good judge lol
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I see where you’re coming from with Latu but I don’t think it’s a transition he could make in a preseason.

he got thru 80 minutes just twice this year, and once was in reserve grade.

I’d have him starting in the halves in Cup for at least the first half of the year before looking to transition him to the middle and building his motor up to 65 minutes by the end of the year.

from there I’d be pushing for him to start at 13 by 2026 in grade, providing he’s put on enough weight to cope with being in the washing machine.

this is all purely hypothetical of course and the club may well have other plans. Havea will come into calculations down the line but Latu might be perfect for that role in the medium term.
 
batboy said:
Warbrick will have eclipsed him by mid next year...
Not just Physically.
(Has already IMO)

To'o is a one trick pony - Can make dirty yards....
Limited Speed Wise, Limited in the Air.
I'd rather have a Winger that doesn't make quite as many yards - but is faster, bigger and better with the high ball.
He just doesn't get challenged in the air as much at Penrith as he would elsewhere simply because most teams that play Penrith are kicking from well inside their own half.

Overall,
The Panthers game makes him look much better than he is,
And he costs too much. Anyone talking about buying a Winger for 900k is on Crack.
- We'd be buying a contract the panthers could do without.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t sound like you have actually watched much of To’o.

When that one trick is running through tacklers it makes you a pretty valuable rugby league player.

I will add that it’s potentially not a sustainable way to play the game into your 30’s. Josh Mansour aged quickly.
 
yeahcaz said:
Only player in origin history to average 200 metres a series for 3 straight series. The shouts of system based and just a winger are factually wrong. Not to mention the signing would be a cultural shift for the club. None of these jokers we currently employ have the right to complain about any player of his calibre making that much money
Click to expand...
I've never said he doesn't make yards....
Odd you mention origin,
the only Origin Winger I heard about this year was Lomax.
And he's only been a Winger for a few months
- And just signed for less that To'o is on.

I've got my opinion on it, You're welcome to yours....
I just just hope it doesn't cost WT's the best part of a million dollars for the next 4 years to work it out.
 
hodgo said:
A couple of things

If the To'o info is accurate ( thanks for the info anyway Odessa) he wont be saying anything until the finals are done.
Added to that I actually am starting to believe forwards arent as important as they used to be. The good teams generate most of their yardage from their back 5. the main purpose of the forwards is defence and compressing defensive lines to create space.

The top 30ish in runs per game and meters per game are mainly backs.

I personally think that's where your money needs to be heavily invested. A back 5 of bula, turuva, skelton too and other centre is pretty dynamic.
Click to expand...
Good and accurate post. This is how the Panthers dynasty has changed the game. They gave up Kikau when they realised their backs were yardage machines.
 
BAGNF05 said:
Good and accurate post. This is how the Panthers dynasty has changed the game. They gave up Kikau when they realised their backs were yardage machines.
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What a load of rubbish , u ask all 17 coaches who they regard as essential, I bet to a man they say forwards win matches , u ever tried coaching a team with crap forwards and great backs , it doesn’t work 50 years ago and it don’t work today
 
bptiger 0 said:
What a load of rubbish , u ask all 17 coaches who they regard as essential, I bet to a man they say forwards win matches , u ever tried coaching a team with crap forwards and great backs , it doesn’t work 50 years ago and it don’t work today
Click to expand...
You have put words in my mouth there mate. I was referring to the yardage game. Do Penrith have crap forwards?
 
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Odessa said:
To'o is a Tiger was told that this morning so mite not need those guys
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Tell you what.. I’m prepared to stump up $100 with you saying To’o is staying with Penrith… if your info is right, you’ll do the same …we put a deadline of November 1st for the announcement he is a Tiger to be made… no announcement $100 into my PayPal account, any announcemwnt he is a tiger $100 into your account …we spruik on here the result ….. Deal?
 
batboy said:
I've never said he doesn't make yards....
Odd you mention origin,
the only Origin Winger I heard about this year was Lomax.
And he's only been a Winger for a few months
- And just signed for less that To'o is on.

I've got my opinion on it, You're welcome to yours....
I just just hope it doesn't cost WT's the best part of a million dollars for the next 4 years to work it out.
Click to expand...
Because we’re completely desensitised to what To’o brings every single game at any level. Everyone only heard about lomax because he had a public spat about being named on the wing at the start of the season and then he ended up playing for his state in that position 😂 not to discount his series.
 
Tiger_Yoshi said:
Tell you what.. I’m prepared to stump up $100 with you saying To’o is staying with Penrith… if your info is right, you’ll do the same …we put a deadline of November 1st for the announcement he is a Tiger to be made… no announcement $100 into my PayPal account, any announcemwnt he is a tiger $100 into your account …we spruik on here the result ….. Deal?
Click to expand...
Hahaha why November 1st ? The off season is a long time
 
yeahcaz said:
Because we’re completely desensitised to what To’o brings every single game at any level. Everyone only heard about lomax because he had a public spat about being named on the wing at the start of the season and then he ended up playing for his state in that position 😂 not to discount his series.
Click to expand...
Give To’o the ball 10m out and a defensive line that isn’t perfectly set and he’s the best finisher in the world.
 
I
bptiger 0 said:
What a load of rubbish , u ask all 17 coaches who they regard as essential, I bet to a man they say forwards win matches , u ever tried coaching a team with crap forwards and great backs , it doesn’t work 50 years ago and it don’t work today
Click to expand...
I think you are jumping the gun. No one said you don't need ok forwards just that they arent required in the same vein they used to be. i just don't think you need the gun forwards you used to. Good solid forwards are the go.
 
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BAGNF05 said:
Doesn’t sound like you have actually watched much of To’o.

When that one trick is running through tacklers it makes you a pretty valuable rugby league player.

I will add that it’s potentially not a sustainable way to play the game into your 30’s. Josh Mansour aged quickly.
Click to expand...

As did the likes of Nofoaluma and Utai before them....
I've watched plenty of To'o, As much as anyone here I'd safely bet....
Much more than Most.

He does what he does very well, No doubt....
doesn't have enough in his kit bag for me.
That's why anyone banging on about him only refers to his meters, or finishing...

I'm looking for a threat in the air, some size and some speed....
Pretty basic requisites of a modern day Winger you'd think?
He's not real flush with any of that...
 
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