So who is better than Sheens, available and why?

[AmericanHistoryX]

no not really - souths would hold onto him if they could get their fingers onto him.

 

[alexaki]

yes, but he's not playing in the same position with the same number on his back. thats the point i think that person was trying to make i think.

Absolutely correct mate. He was doing different things with the 7 on his back. People need to go back and have a second look at the difference in Marshalls game. Dont believe Sheens when he says Marshall plays the same whether he wears the 6 or the 7\. Thats Sheens covering his own butt. Marshalls game differs greatly with the 6 on his back. Go have another look guys!!!

Agree…Marshall with the 7 on his back played close to the ruck and overplayed his hand...with 6 on his back he plays wider and chimes in and plays his hand when needed and it makes a difference.!

 

[southerntiger]

This stuff makes me laugh. You guys think the Sheens bashers are annoying, however the Sheens chest beaters after 1 win are equally as nauseating.

Sheens seems to be building us up nicely again similar to what he did in 2004\. However how is anyone to know that no coach could of done a better job between 2006 and 2009?? Fittler, Nathan Brown, Folkes, Hagan, Taylor, Cleary, Stuart and 1000 others all made finals series during this period. Some clubs are more paitent then others. If Sheens was at another club he would of been out the door by now.

Perhaps but all I can say is thank god we dont have Stuart, Fittler, Brown, Hagan, Folkes or Cleary as our coach. Any of those would be a backward step.

 

[Spartan117]

Folkes is the only reasonable option, and Folkes' first move should be a new defensive coach!!!

Very logical transition… I wonder if Steve folks would be interested.

A lot more work as a Head coach....

 

[southerntiger]

Marshall at 7 for sooooo long also springs to mind.

He's playing the same position now with a different number on his back…

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

It kills me how many people think that Benji is playing so well because he is no longer our halfback. FMD do people watch the games???

This gets me as well.

 

[southerntiger]

Sheens can coach,but geez he can't pick a team,we had Fitzy in the halves for so long,Morris in there for 2 and half seasons,Bronson playing prop,Moltzen at fullback,Galea at prop,Farah at half(cost him the Dally M),a winger on the bench most weeks I could go on but it is too painfull,he can't or won't admit he gets it wrong sometimes.

How long was Fitzy in the halves for? It didnt seem that long to me?

 

[Footy_Head_Goodness]

This gets me as well.

It wont GET you when you go back and watch a few games from Marshall attempting to be a 7\. He is playing a very different game now.

 

[southerntiger]

FHG,

I generally re-watch a lot of our games. Marshall may be playing differently now but this has nothing to do with the number on his back but rather his confidence. It took him time to find his feet as an organiser but now it is working.

He is still 90% of the time getting the ball as first receiver, playing halfback from the scrum and, with Farah, is our go to man for general play kicking. Hasnt changed much from what I can see.

 

[pacey]

i dont mind if he goes just aslong we have a quality coach, i think if he goes folkes will become coach

 

[Geo]

Ummm…have Wests Tigers changed the way they play.....missed it!

 

[southerntiger]

Sheens seems to be building us up nicely again similar to what he did in 2004\. However how is anyone to know that no coach could of done a better job between 2006 and 2009??

This is what I dont understand. When should, in the eyes of the Sheens critics, Tim have been sacked?

Obviously, I assume, not in 2006, the year after we won the premiership. After 2006 we lost some of our most senior players and needed to rebuild around our young team, so I would similarly assume not in 2007\. In 2008, Sheens gave his young team (that he had been building) a chance to shine. They didnt step up and hence at the end of 2008 and 2009 Sheens decided it was time for cut the losses and rebuild with a new team. He started doing this and in 2009 we received an initial taste of how good this new brigade would be.

There have effectively been four eras in Sheens time at the club. His 2003-2004 era where he started building a young team with the $2 the club gave him - how anybody can criticise Tim for not making the finals with the squad he had at the time bemuses me. That we didnt win the spoon during this time was an achievement in itself. He brought Farah, Gibbs, Marshall, Fulton, Collis, Harrison, Heighno etc into the team. The 2005-2006 era where Sheens had assembled a good, but not great, squad that won us a premiership. The 2007-2008 era was when Sheens sought to rebuild after the loss of senior players from the premiership team. This rebuilding failed and Tim moved to cleanout the squad very quickly as promised. In 2009, we unearthed some great new young players and at the back end of the season were one of the top 3 teams in the comp on form.

When I break it down, I cant believe how quickly people have turned on Tim and the inability to see what he has been trying to do in terms of rebuilding. Like everyone, I dont always agree with Tim's selections at times, but geez he is not too bad at development.

 

[AndTheKungFoSing]

FHG,

I generally re-watch a lot of our games. Marshall may be playing differently now but this has nothing to do with the number on his back but rather his confidence. It took him time to find his feet as an organiser but not it is working.

He is still 90% of the time getting the ball as first receiver, playing halfback from the scrum and, with Farah, is our go to man for general play kicking. Hasnt changed much from what I can see.

Thanks Southern… saved me the post... and spot on.

 

[Balmain_Bug]

Any coach that has gotten a team to the Semi Finals more than once in 15 years would be better wouldn't they?

 

[southerntiger]

Any coach that has gotten a team to the Semi Finals more than once in 15 years would be better wouldn't they?

Really?

 

[REHAB]

Folkes - i feel he has taken the job at the club to take a look at how things are in the club, the transitional time is already in progess i think. I think its time for sheens to move on, he has been here for too long. When you take a quality player out of a team and play him under another team/coach they tend to shine. What would happen if you take a quality roster and play it under a new coach?

 

[Properossi]

This is what I dont understand. When should, in the eyes of the Sheens critics, Tim have been sacked?

Obviously, I assume, not in 2006, the year after we won the premiership. After 2006 we lost some of our most senior players and needed to rebuild around our young team, so I would similarly assume not in 2007\. In 2008, Sheens gave his young team (that he had been building) a chance to shine. They didnt step up and hence at the end of 2008 and 2009 Sheens decided it was time for cut the losses and rebuild with a new team. He started doing this and in 2009 we received an initial taste of how good this new brigade would be.

There have effectively been four eras in Sheens time at the club. His 2003-2004 era where he started building a young team with the $2 the club gave him - how anybody can criticise Tim for not making the finals with the squad he had at the time bemuses me. That we didnt win the spoon during this time was an achievement in itself. He brought Farah, Gibbs, Marshall, Fulton, Collis, Harrison, Heighno etc into the team. The 2005-2006 era where Sheens had assembled a good, but not great, squad that won us a premiership. The 2007-2008 era was when Sheens sought to rebuild after the loss of senior players from the premiership team. This rebuilding failed and Tim moved to cleanout the squad very quickly as promised. In 2009, we unearthed some great new young players and at the back end of the season were one of the top 3 teams in the comp on form.

When I break it down, I cant believe how quickly people have turned on Tim and the inability to see what he has been trying to do in terms of rebuilding. Like everyone, I dont always agree with Tim's selections at times, but geez he is not too bad at development.

Finally someone talks some sense!

 

[hybrid_tiger]

This is what I dont understand. When should, in the eyes of the Sheens critics, Tim have been sacked?

IMO straight after that debacle of a game against Newcastle in Round 26, 2007.

However we persisted and have been very patient with Sheens, for reasons even I can see. Ultimately though I think everyone who has voiced a concern about Sheens over the last few years has had the right to question some of his decisions, particularly in regards to recruitment and team selection.

As for now, we seem to be heading in the right direction, but there should be no excuses anymore.

 

[Eddie]

Sheens seems to be building us up nicely again similar to what he did in 2004\. However how is anyone to know that no coach could of done a better job between 2006 and 2009??

This is what I dont understand. When should, in the eyes of the Sheens critics, Tim have been sacked?

Obviously, I assume, not in 2006, the year after we won the premiership. After 2006 we lost some of our most senior players and needed to rebuild around our young team, so I would similarly assume not in 2007\. In 2008, Sheens gave his young team (that he had been building) a chance to shine. They didnt step up and hence at the end of 2008 and 2009 Sheens decided it was time for cut the losses and rebuild with a new team. He started doing this and in 2009 we received an initial taste of how good this new brigade would be.

There have effectively been four eras in Sheens time at the club. His 2003-2004 era where he started building a young team with the $2 the club gave him - how anybody can criticise Tim for not making the finals with the squad he had at the time bemuses me. That we didnt win the spoon during this time was an achievement in itself. He brought Farah, Gibbs, Marshall, Fulton, Collis, Harrison, Heighno etc into the team. The 2005-2006 era where Sheens had assembled a good, but not great, squad that won us a premiership. The 2007-2008 era was when Sheens sought to rebuild after the loss of senior players from the premiership team. This rebuilding failed and Tim moved to cleanout the squad very quickly as promised. In 2009, we unearthed some great new young players and at the back end of the season were one of the top 3 teams in the comp on form.

When I break it down, I cant believe how quickly people have turned on Tim and the inability to see what he has been trying to do in terms of rebuilding. Like everyone, I dont always agree with Tim's selections at times, but geez he is not too bad at development.

Yout can break down stats any way you want to really. Southern I have said several times that Sheens efforts from 2003 to 2006 were fantastic. Your right when he came in the talent was woeful at best. Signing Prince, Richards, Payten, Hodgson and co and developing Farah, Marshall, Fulton, Gibbs and co.

I believe we are just about to enter a similar cycle. Sheens has got rid of the dead wood, which was long over due. He has also signed 2 marquee players in Ellis and Tuqiri and managed to play a role in re-signing the likes of Marshall, Farah, Galloway, Heightington, and the core majority of our senior players. We are also seeing the likes of Moltzen, Ashford and co add something to the side. We are in the best position we have been for 4 years in terms of our squad and Sheens deserves credit for this.

However this rebuilding should of started 2 or 3 seasons ago. Our captain recently said this as much. He wanted to leave because the club lacked ambition and were going backwards. Making rubbish signings like John Morris and Corey Payne. Playing dead wood players dreadfully out of form for months on end. All im saying is Sheens would not of lasted at some clubs during this period.

Things are looking decent at this stage, however we still have to manage 13 wins this season. There should be no excuses. Given Sheens recent comments that he would walk away if we can't get things to work in the next year, that is comforting.

 

[southerntiger]

Sheens seems to be building us up nicely again similar to what he did in 2004\. However how is anyone to know that no coach could of done a better job between 2006 and 2009??

This is what I dont understand. When should, in the eyes of the Sheens critics, Tim have been sacked?

Obviously, I assume, not in 2006, the year after we won the premiership. After 2006 we lost some of our most senior players and needed to rebuild around our young team, so I would similarly assume not in 2007\. In 2008, Sheens gave his young team (that he had been building) a chance to shine. They didnt step up and hence at the end of 2008 and 2009 Sheens decided it was time for cut the losses and rebuild with a new team. He started doing this and in 2009 we received an initial taste of how good this new brigade would be.

There have effectively been four eras in Sheens time at the club. His 2003-2004 era where he started building a young team with the $2 the club gave him - how anybody can criticise Tim for not making the finals with the squad he had at the time bemuses me. That we didnt win the spoon during this time was an achievement in itself. He brought Farah, Gibbs, Marshall, Fulton, Collis, Harrison, Heighno etc into the team. The 2005-2006 era where Sheens had assembled a good, but not great, squad that won us a premiership. The 2007-2008 era was when Sheens sought to rebuild after the loss of senior players from the premiership team. This rebuilding failed and Tim moved to cleanout the squad very quickly as promised. In 2009, we unearthed some great new young players and at the back end of the season were one of the top 3 teams in the comp on form.

When I break it down, I cant believe how quickly people have turned on Tim and the inability to see what he has been trying to do in terms of rebuilding. Like everyone, I dont always agree with Tim's selections at times, but geez he is not too bad at development.

Yout can break down stats any way you want to really. Southern I have said several times that Sheens efforts from 2003 to 2006 were fantastic.

But Eddie thats my point, most people recognise that Tim's efforts were brilliant in that period. I think we can also recognise that in 2009 the rebuilding by Tim was once again very good. This means that fans have turned on a coach who brought us a premiership, credibility and, in all practicality, saved the club from probable death, for two mediocre seasons.

Hybrid's answer demonstrates my point - he would have sacked the coach who brought us a premiership just two years afterwards. Seems rather harsh to me.

This is not a criticism of a certain view point. I am earnestly trying to pinpoint when Sheens turned from being a hero to a zero for the critics. I took a departure from these types of forums for most of the 2007-2008 seasons (although I still caught every game), mainly because of work and personal commitments. The level of venom towards Sheens amazed me last year when I returned. People who had lauded him in 2005 were after his head in 2009\. The same thing happened with Benji. This is the problem (probably the wrong word) with many fans, and I guess it is a function of the passion, it is always about extremes - there is no middle ground.

I agree with you about walking away. I said a few weeks ago Sheens needed to make the finals this year or he should go. But I would never hate a man who brought us to the promised land.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

why should sheens walk if we dont make the 8 this year - take a look at us now!