Spine or Pack?

[fibrodreaming]

We need someone who can control and close out a game. And therein lies our big problem…

I don't agree Willow.

Take the Panthers and Eels matches. We led in both matches but had only 40% of the ball in the second half (the Panthers received 9 penalties in the second half alone). In both matches we spent most of our time defending inside our own half and when we were in possession we were running the ball off our own line.

What are our playmakers supposed to do under those circumstances ? People seem to think that a "game manager" can pull a rabbit out of the hat and conjure up a victory from nothing.

Our problems are more fundamental than lacking "game managers". Our discipline and execution are poor. If we give our halves decent front-foot ball and field position we are capable of scoring points. We have proved that.

 

[twentyforty]

Dragons (2019-20) and Bulldogs (2017-20) are good case studies to show what happens when a good or decent forward pack is led around by numpties. They have the forwards to go up against any team, yet they suck.

You need to have two dominant player makers in your spine, with a third decent option. It doesn't matter whether it is your 1, 6, 7 or 9. Newcastle show why you need balance. Pinning everything on Pearce allows defenders to gang up on him. Kurt Mann is good if they have a dominant 9, but with the fill-ins they've had, he doesn't offer enough to take attention from Pearce. Ponga is always going to be your third play maker.

Some food for thought. Apply it to us how you see fit. I think Doueihi fits in well as a third play maker. Grant has been posing threats all season at 9. The problem seems to be that we have games where both the 6 and 7 clock off.

Very good post Kazoo. When a team has a no nonsense, go forward pack then it should attract good quality halves. The example you gave is a good one because it highlights the fact that quality halves are in short supply.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Dragons (2019-20) and Bulldogs (2017-20) are good case studies to show what happens when a good or decent forward pack is led around by numpties. They have the forwards to go up against any team, yet they suck.

You need to have two dominant player makers in your spine, with a third decent option. It doesn't matter whether it is your 1, 6, 7 or 9. Newcastle show why you need balance. Pinning everything on Pearce allows defenders to gang up on him. Kurt Mann is good if they have a dominant 9, but with the fill-ins they've had, he doesn't offer enough to take attention from Pearce. Ponga is always going to be your third play maker.

Some food for thought. Apply it to us how you see fit. I think Doueihi fits in well as a third play maker. Grant has been posing threats all season at 9. The problem seems to be that we have games where both the 6 and 7 clock off.

And yet the Bulldogs have been among it in a few games, despite their lacking quality in the spine. They beat Newcastle, and went close with the Eels. They dropped the Dragons game through an intercept pass IIRC.

They would be Broncos level garbage without a decent pack.

That's not to say you don't make a good point about your spine players, you do need a reasonable spine to be threatening. But without a decent engine room, they don't even get into the game.

 

[earl]

We need someone who can control and close out a game. And therein lies our big problem…

I don't agree Willow.

Take the Panthers and Eels matches. We led in both matches but had only 40% of the ball in the second half (the Panthers received 9 penalties in the second half alone). In both matches we spent most of our time defending inside our own half and when we were in possession we were running the ball off our own line.

What are our playmakers supposed to do under those circumstances ? People seem to think that a "game manager" can pull a rabbit out of the hat and conjure up a victory from nothing.

Our problems are more fundamental than lacking "game managers". Our discipline and execution are poor. If we give our halves decent front-foot ball and field position we are capable of scoring points. We have proved that.

The problem is that our halves aren't creating that much or coming up with good quality last play options. They need to improve.

 

[Geo]

We need someone who can control and close out a game. And therein lies our big problem…

I don't agree Willow.

Take the Panthers and Eels matches. We led in both matches but had only 40% of the ball in the second half (the Panthers received 9 penalties in the second half alone). In both matches we spent most of our time defending inside our own half and when we were in possession we were running the ball off our own line.

What are our playmakers supposed to do under those circumstances ? People seem to think that a "game manager" can pull a rabbit out of the hat and conjure up a victory from nothing.

Our problems are more fundamental than lacking "game managers". Our discipline and execution are poor. If we give our halves decent front-foot ball and field position we are capable of scoring points. We have proved that.

Yep..

 

[bathursttiger1]

We've got most of the pack right, when players are fit. The spine is the issue, with Benji at the back end of his career, Brooks struggling to assert any type of authority and control on the game, Doueihi playing on 1 leg and Harry heading back to Melbourne next season. We're well served at 9 with Liddle and Simpkin, I'm not worried about that. It will be interesting to see if Brooks plays any better at 6 or whether his role remains exactly the same. We need someone who can control and close out a game. And therein lies our big problem...

We also need a pack that can get us close to their red zone, so we aren't kicking on the 5 tackle inside our own half.

 

[Needaname]

Take the roosters for example. More of their salary cap is spent on the forwards than their backs.
I think the key to any team is if you are going to pay Marquee money for anyone you would want them to be on the top 5 of their position at the least.

The Bulldogs May have a good pack as far as effort goes, but there is a lack of creativity in their forwards. Take the 2012 Bulldogs team for example and that was a different beast. Then even apply that same method to their 2014 team.
Spine
Lichaa
Hodkinson
Reynolds
Perret

 

[The-moP]

Going forward, our spine is a mess. Our forward pack is shaping nicely. I’m interested in people’s thoughts: what’s more important in building a squad - getting the spine right or getting the forwards right? Madge seems to be focusing on getting a tough pack set but is this to the detriment of an effective spine?

We are 1 dominate forward away from have a great pack for 2021 .. but seriously we need to look at fixing our spine ..

At 9 - if we keep Grant (??) or go with Simpkins at 9, from all reports Simpkins will be ok. Liddle, is he injury cursed .. or will he be ok .. ??

At 7 - Brooks has had enough rope to hang himself and hasn't been able to kick on as a leader to date .. !! Is Madden the answer .. ??

At 6 - Marshall will probably retire - Reynolds will go to the UK SL, and Douiehi never seen him at 6 .. ?? Tommy Talau some are saying he is a number 6, i havent seen him play there so i cant say.

At 1 - Douiehi, from what i have seen, and as safe as he been for us so far .. unfortunately he is not a number 1 .. !!

So it looks like we need a 7, 6 and 1 for 2021.

 

[Sco77y]

Going forward, our spine is a mess. Our forward pack is shaping nicely. I’m interested in people’s thoughts: what’s more important in building a squad - getting the spine right or getting the forwards right? Madge seems to be focusing on getting a tough pack set but is this to the detriment of an effective spine?

We are 1 dominate forward away from have a great pack for 2021 .. but seriously we need to look at fixing our spine ..

At 9 - if we keep Grant (??) or go with Simpkins at 9, from all reports Simpkins will be ok. Liddle, is he injury cursed .. or will he be ok .. ??

At 7 - Brooks has had enough rope to hang himself and hasn't been able to kick on as a leader to date .. !! Is Madden the answer .. ??

At 6 - Marshall will probably retire - Reynolds will go to the UK SL, and Douiehi never seen him at 6 .. ?? Tommy Talau some are saying he is a number 6, i havent seen him play there so i cant say.

At 1 - Douiehi, from what i have seen, and as safe as he been for us so far .. unfortunately he is not a number 1 .. !!

So it looks like we need a 7, 6 and 1 for 2021.

Well Brooks will be either our 6 or 7, let's see how he goes at 6 this week. I'm sure he's more than capable of filling either or those positions, maybe more so 6 currently unless his game management and direction improves. I agree we're short one half though, and fullback still looks very uncertain unfortunately. We haven't impressed in this position since Tedesco left.

 

[Newtown]

A real goalkicker is our main problem. Kick goals and the team builds confidence. Miss goals especially easy ones like last week and team confidence drops as we all saw.

 

[2005magic]

Reckon establishing a reliable, consistent spine is most important. From those 4 players can build supporting team.

 

[gato]

We have a decent pack shaping up but we need a spine hopefully simpkins and liddle come good for 2021 if we don't get grant.

 

[05TIGZZ]

Our forwards are building up nicely. If Simpkin is as good as the raps on him then he will be a great 9. Our backline of Aj, Talau, BJ, nofa I reckon will also be great. I also think a 100% douhei will be a really good fullback. Our biggest issues are 6 and 7. What do you do? Brooks, Mbye and Reynolds take up over $2 million of our cap. Benji is past it. This is our biggest problem. We are one “good” playmaker away from being a threat next year.

 

[twentyforty]

We've got most of the pack right, when players are fit. The spine is the issue, with Benji at the back end of his career, Brooks struggling to assert any type of authority and control on the game, Doueihi playing on 1 leg and Harry heading back to Melbourne next season. We're well served at 9 with Liddle and Simpkin, I'm not worried about that. It will be interesting to see if Brooks plays any better at 6 or whether his role remains exactly the same. We need someone who can control and close out a game. And therein lies our big problem...

We also need a pack that can get us close to their red zone, so we aren't kicking on the 5 tackle inside our own half.

There have been occasions when I swear the WT forwards appear to be running into a 200kph headwind.

 

[twentyforty]

Our forwards are building up nicely. If Simpkin is as good as the raps on him then he will be a great 9. Our backline of Aj, Talau, BJ, nofa I reckon will also be great. I also think a 100% douhei will be a really good fullback. Our biggest issues are 6 and 7. What do you do? Brooks, Mbye and Reynolds take up over $2 million of our cap. Benji is past it. This is our biggest problem. We are one “good” playmaker away from being a threat next year.

Brooks is playing his 8th season in nrl. He hasn’t played rep footy, he hasn’t even played a finals game. Why is he worth $600k? If Mbye has talent then we aren’t the team to bring it out. And you’re right, Reynolds and Benji are past their best .
Good pivots are hard to find these days.

 

[supercoach]

Our spine bar Harry has been all over the place, but over the past few weeks we have been playing a very basic game plan of basically one out running and kick on the last. No spine is going to look flash with that game plan. We are also getting very little meters out of engine room, so the spine is always on the backfoot

 

[fibrodreaming]

Brooks is playing his 8th season in nrl. He hasn’t played rep footy, he hasn’t even played a finals game.

That's more a reflection of the quality of the teams in which he has been playing. Since Brooks has been playing for us, I have never looked at the squad at the beginning of the year and thought that it was a genuine top 8 squad.

Besides, playing rep footy and finals series is no great personal accolade in my opinion. There have been many very ordinary players play in finals and more than a few ordinary players play Origin.

 

[Strider]

To be unbiased, I would say our pack is 'acceptable' not great not terrible. Average. Guys like Eisenhuth, Tal, love the blokes but I dont think they will ever be thought of a star. We on the forums tend to become big fans of our players 🙂 I dont think we have a pack that is going to be dominating teams, put it that way.

Our spine is also average. I think our whole line up is 'average' which also explains our position on the ladder. Alot of work to do on the entire roster IMO with a few obvious keepers.

 

[rozelle_rudy]

I have to disagree with the praise for the pack. Luciano Leilua, Twal and Aloiai are decent. We need a new bunch around them. Garner, if he learns defence. Mikaele, if he gets his 2019 form back. Musgrave, Blore, McIntyre if they continue to show early promise. Stefano next year, who knows?
But Eisenhuth, Packer, McQueen, Taylor, Lawrence, Packer, Clark, Seyfarth. Hasbeens or probably never will be..
New big young mongrel forwards desperately needed.