Struggling in every grade - what's going on?

[851]

Haven't bothered reading all the posts, but without research to back it up, I don't really care if the lower grades are not as strong. The problem has been the strong from lower grades has not transferred to the top grade. Usually if the lower grades have weakened it's because players have transitioned into firsts and most times that translates to strength in the top grade and not so strong in lower grades.
It occurred on JTs watch so I hold him responsible. Things are about to change though. Club has opened up outside the circle for recruitment.

Taylor had no money/cap space and little say in recruitment as he was watched over, so can't place much blame at his feet. Your anger should be aimed more so at O'Neil and McDonnell for mine.

JT moved Brown, Farah and Sironen on while under contract, we are paying 1 million for players to play against us, those players are better than what Cleary has to use now, so JT made a bad situation way worse

Where has it been said we're paying Brown or Siro anything?

It is common knowledge, any one who has been on this forum for more than 6 months would know, you are just poking at me again, and you reckon I keep belting JT

 

[bp_tiger]

the answer is very simple, we are paying for failed recruitment. why do we always sign small under sized players. most of the NYC sides are much bigger than ours, and are ISP team is full of crap players. we need to recruit larger bodied players. if u have a look at our pack in the NRL game when they were packing a scrum there forwards had so much more bulk on them than we had, hard to compete against that sort of size.

 

[RobbieFarah05]

In my opinion the decline began with the new vision, that is the implemention of the likes of Go and JT. It morphed into the steroid version after we won a few games last season hence the status quo. They kept on harping on about culture, and in that process they got rid of existing processes and persons

Yes Tigers have done well in lower grades, stable and consistent. Now we are living off the vision. It's a disaster. It's one thing trying to rebuild first grade, though ripping out the foundations of the club all together?

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Taylor had no money/cap space and little say in recruitment as he was watched over, so can't place much blame at his feet. Your anger should be aimed more so at O'Neil and McDonnell for mine.

JT moved Brown, Farah and Sironen on while under contract, we are paying 1 million for players to play against us, those players are better than what Cleary has to use now, so JT made a bad situation way worse

Where has it been said we're paying Brown or Siro anything?

It is common knowledge, any one who has been on this forum for more than 6 months would know, you are just poking at me again, and you reckon I keep belting JT

It hasn't been proven anywhere that we're paying Siro, let alone Brown.

 

[Club_Sandwich]

JT moved Brown, Farah and Sironen on while under contract, we are paying 1 million for players to play against us, those players are better than what Cleary has to use now, so JT made a bad situation way worse

Where has it been said we're paying Brown or Siro anything?

It is common knowledge, any one who has been on this forum for more than 6 months would know, you are just poking at me again, and you reckon I keep belting JT

It hasn't been proven anywhere that we're paying Siro, let alone Brown.

Heres an article that says we are paying for Sironen this year:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/ben-ikin-wests-tigers-should-have-made-kieran-foran-not-josh-reynolds-a-massive-offer/news-story/28e6ef54e61d3a72a549e30b635d5bf1

Particularly this part:

_"Farah and Manly’s Curtis Sironen will be off the books next year and with the cap getting a significant increase, it stands to reason that the Tigers open their chequebook to attract at least one massive name, if not more_"

 

[ricksen]

In my opinion the decline began with the new vision, that is the implemention of the likes of Go and JT. It morphed into the steroid version after we won a few games last season hence the status quo. They kept on harping on about culture, and in that process they got rid of existing processes and persons

Yes Tigers have done well in lower grades, stable and consistent. Now we are living off the vision. It's a disaster. It's one thing trying to rebuild first grade, though ripping out the foundations of the club all together?

JT was not a good coach and the jury is out on Go, but this is complete nonsense. What 'vision' are you referencing?
The club was a complete shambles on and off the field long before both walked in back in late 2014, and we all know who to blame for that.
We're still ailing on the field (but at least we are finally rebuilding), but off-field the club is in it's best position for many years.

 

[ricksen]

JT moved Brown, Farah and Sironen on while under contract, we are paying 1 million for players to play against us, those players are better than what Cleary has to use now, so JT made a bad situation way worse

Where has it been said we're paying Brown or Siro anything?

It is common knowledge, any one who has been on this forum for more than 6 months would know, you are just poking at me again, and you reckon I keep belting JT

It hasn't been proven anywhere that we're paying Siro, let alone Brown.

I'm fairly certain we're paying a portion of Sirro's contract this year - but zero chance we're paying Brown, given his old Tigers contract would have expired last year.

 

[Club_Sandwich]

We've had some great success with our junior development. Suli, Marsters, Liddle, and Felise are the more recent graduates. Tatola must be close to a debut in the NRL as well.

Yeah great success:
Woods
Tedesco
Korobiete
Nathan Brown
Fifita
Sironen
Paseka
Papenhuyzen
Heighington

To name just a few.

All great juniors and all playing or soon to be playing for other vastly more successful clubs (with the exception of Koro who now plays RU).

Swings in roundabouts though, especially with us signing players like Twal, Tui, Maane, Reynolds etc.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

We've had some great success with our junior development. Suli, Marsters, Liddle, and Felise are the more recent graduates. Tatola must be close to a debut in the NRL as well.

Yeah great success:
Woods
Tedesco
Korobiete
Nathan Brown
Fifita
Sironen
Paseka
Papenhuyzen
Heighington

To name just a few.

All great juniors and all playing or soon to be playing for other vastly more successful clubs (with the exception of Koro who now plays RU).

Swings in roundabouts though, especially with us signing players like Twal, Tui, Maane, Reynolds etc.

It really hurts to look back at the quality of our juniors that have or are about to leave us. I have a confidence now that Cleary is a good manager of players and talent.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

Some years ago and mainly due to salary cap constraints they decided to build a team around 4 juniors. Basically put 13 average footballers around these kids and in time we will be just like Melbourne. In the process we let Austen,TMM,Tapau,Koro,JAC,Farah and Siro all walk so we could have enough cap space to keep the 4.

Well it is history now, three have them have bolted or about to bolt, they were not half as good as we were led to believe they were and now its back to square one with a completely different approach

Exactly what happened in 4 simple lines. Well said!

Yeah bang on! Hope history never repeats itself.

 

[WestsBenTigers]

the answer is very simple, we are paying for failed recruitment. why do we always sign small under sized players. most of the NYC sides are much bigger than ours, and are ISP team is full of crap players. we need to recruit larger bodied players. if u have a look at our pack in the NRL game when they were packing a scrum there forwards had so much more bulk on them than we had, hard to compete against that sort of size.

And we let Paseka go :brick:

 

[RobbieFarah05]

In my opinion the decline began with the new vision, that is the implemention of the likes of Go and JT. It morphed into the steroid version after we won a few games last season hence the status quo. They kept on harping on about culture, and in that process they got rid of existing processes and persons

Yes Tigers have done well in lower grades, stable and consistent. Now we are living off the vision. It's a disaster. It's one thing trying to rebuild first grade, though ripping out the foundations of the club all together?

JT was not a good coach and the jury is out on Go, but this is complete nonsense. What 'vision' are you referencing?
The club was a complete shambles on and off the field long before both walked in back in late 2014, and we all know who to blame for that.
We're still ailing on the field (but at least we are finally rebuilding), but off-field the club is in it's best position for many years.

Firstly I believe in Ivan. Im confident he will get us back to a competitive level in first grade.

In the context of this thread, our lower grades have been rather strong up until now. This can only be the fault of the relevant board and affiliates. The vison I'm referring to is that of the board and their decisions. Please feel free to elaborate.

As for the term rebuilding, for the love of god can the admins bar this word from this forum permanently. I'm frigging traumatised from the rebuilding process, we've been rebuilding all forever now.

 

[LCA]

Culture? Vision? They're abstract concepts used by people who don't actually agree on what they mean by it. Will it mean it's been achieved if we're winning more consistently? Not really.

The obvious (to me) reflection on the season, thus far, is that most teams are, purely and simply, just too good for us in most of the key spots on the field.

Every one of our boys give their best (ok, ok….not that scum Mitchell Moses) week in and week out.

I think we'll all be praiseworthy of the "culture" of the club when we are competitive each game. I respect the quiet and understated confidence of Ivan Cleary and his approach to importing players who can help us win more consistently.

When that happens (and it wil!) will it mean the culture is better or that the vision has been achieved?

Nope. It will just mean that we had enough talent in enough key positions who come with an open mind to contribute and develop.

 

[earl]

LCA nails it. We need better players.

 

[tig_prmz]

LCA nails it. We need better players.

it's a cycle… better players won't come here until we are successful.

Woods, Tedesco and Moses left coz they didn't think that they could get us to be a succesfful club and the new recruits are coming here to make this club successful.

Different topic and I hope we are never discussing this but what would happen if we fail to make finals in '18 and '19 as well?

 

[earl]

LCA nails it. We need better players.

it's a cycle… better players won't come here until we are successful.

Woods, Tedesco and Moses left coz they didn't think that they could get us to be a succesfful club and the new recruits are coming here to make this club successful.

Different topic and I hope we are never discussing this but what would happen if we fail to make finals in '18 and '19 as well?

Those guys left for money as well as being spoilt petulant brats. Taylor as a coach mismanaged them and probably the clubs hierarchy were also to blame but players like Robbie and Benji who have been much better players than those players stayed with the club.

As for players not coming here they are lining up to come here now that we have the money to pay them. They also came here in the past. Blair was considered one of the best forwards in the comp when he came here. Ellis was a quality player.

I think the club has mismanaged the cap in the past and I think other clubs get a better deal out of TPA's than what we do but I think the main reason we have underperformed recently is betting on those players you mention who aren't as good as they think they are.

I think Cleary is now doing the right thing. Assemble a good squad. See how they gel. Make changes as required. So if we fail to make the finals over the next two seasons all I hope is that the club reassess where they are at with the playing roster and make changes.

If our salary cap though was double every other clubs we would win the comp every year. They would come here and play reserve grade for double the pay.

 

[tig_prmz]

As for players not coming here they are lining up to come here now that we have the money to pay them. They also came here in the past. Blair was considered one of the best forwards in the comp when he came here. Ellis was a quality player.

I think the main reason we have underperformed recently is betting on those players you mention who aren't as good as they think they are.

There are exceptions definitely but we have never attracted top line marquee players; certainly not as much as other clubs for sure.

LOL All three are idiots but they are NOT AT ALL the reason we have failed. MM the worst of the lot was our player of the year last year. Teddy- NSW and Woods- Australia. They have a big head, are selfish, self centred whatever but they are the ones who've kept us off the bottom of the table.

 

[rialto]

Earl –- Teddy is not leaving us for the money (we offered more than the chooks). According to statements he made to the media it was Cleary's ultimatum. If it wasn't for that he may well have decided to stay. Read where Cleary did not exactly make himself available for discussion at the time. Big Mistake.

 

[earl]

Earl –- Teddy is not leaving us for the money (we offered more than the chooks). According to statements he made to the media it was Cleary's ultimatum. If it wasn't for that he may well have decided to stay. Read where Cleary did not exactly make himself available for discussion at the time. Big Mistake.

There is no way that this is true. These are story tales made up by people with no integrity - i.e. Tedesco and his manager.

 

[Club_Sandwich]

Earl –- Teddy is not leaving us for the money (we offered more than the chooks). According to statements he made to the media it was Cleary's ultimatum. If it wasn't for that he may well have decided to stay. Read where Cleary did not exactly make himself available for discussion at the time. Big Mistake.

You are having a giraffe mate if you think the Roosters are paying Teddy less than what we offered. Ever heard of TPAs?