Tallyn Da Silva #270

[Telltails]

Yes but we were/are suppose to build our future from local talent. You know five year plan blah blah. This looks like our best way out of this mess

And how can we afford to buy players, we have to pay overs, no one of note will come to the joint except for very good money.

TDS is a litmus test, if we lose him, it’s a very bad outcome.

The aim of all clubs that invest in juniors is to build future sides around them that goes without saying - we are no different and the challenge is always in keeping them.
The difference for us is the focus on it in the media because of the consistent failure of the FG side.
The profile of any of our juniors appears to be far more elevated than other clubs - sometimes to their advantage sometimes not - and losing them generates news. A lost junior in a lower club is far more concerning for its fans - and every one knows that any story from this club is news.

 

[Moh]

Has Benji expressed the same conviction at any point to retain TDS? Haven’t even heard him say he wants to retain TDS and then to have some kind of transition plan. To Benji, it’s just “Api Api Api”. And the moral of that story is that TDS is the bad guy for wanting to explore his options? Come on.

Benji's love for Api is for a reason.

That guy is a soldier, and he has single handedly won us games on many occasions. We're slowly building a team to support him, and I'm sure Benji thinks he deserves and should be a big part of that team.

If, and it's a big if, no one has had discussions with TDS about the plan around him and Api - only then it's a big mistake from Benji or the club.

To me, it seems mad that neither him or Richo would have been very clear with the long term plan for him. I have no doubt those conversations have taken place.

TDS just isn't happy with it - and that's fine. But don't blame it on Benji/the club.

Api is our starter for the rest of this season, and IMO the next depending on how he's traveling. No one will be starting TDS ahead of Api right now, and not many would be starting TDS ahead of Api next season - increased minutes for sure; and if he has a deal better than that, I can see why he might want to take it - though disappointed he doesn't want to be part of our future.

 

[Red88_Tiger]

If we win more games this sort of player negotiations disappear

 

[Furious1]

"chances are Tallyn will have to go", hardly an ultimatum.

Obviously there are other things playing out in the background as alluded to by another poster. If my memory serves me correctly, I think it was Wayne Bennett, used to to have the philosophy of it's better to let a player go a year early then keep them a year too long. Hope this doesn't end up being the case with Api.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

"chances are Tallyn will have to go", hardly an ultimatum.

Obviously there are other things playing out in the background as alluded to by another poster. If my memory serves me correctly, I think it was Wayne Bennett, used to to have the philosophy of it's better to let a player go a year early then keep them a year too long. Hope this doesn't end up being the case with Api.

if Api stays

 

[GNR4LIFE]

It isn't an ego stroking contest where all players need to receive the public admiration from the coach.... He said API will be here.. woopty doo... Tallyn wants to leave if API is here . The choice is out of Benji's hands if he wants API to stay in any shape or form..

It’s not about public admiration and ego stroking. You’re going out on a limb defending Benji when you don’t even know if Benji rates him. It’s been said that Richo wants him but Benji doesn’t. And given how quiet Benji has been about TDS, how could you argue that isn’t true. If a coach truly values a player, do you really think his response to a question regarding if the player will be at the club in another week would be “I don’t know”?

Tartak didn't mix his words. He said if API is here Tallyn wont be.. pretty aggressive thing to say to kick the captain out of the club as a 20 year old (via his manager)

It’s only aggressive if you perceive it that way. Iongi left the Panthers because he had Edwards in front of him. Was he wrong for doing that? Players leave clubs for better opportunities all the time. And if Benji isn’t a fan, what’s TDS supposed to do?

His management came out with its him or me spiel and attempted to distance themselves from Galvin. He is also under contract until end of 26 well knowing at the time he had one of the best hookers in the NRL in front of him. It is his management team who also mentioned Galvin, not me. Koroisau is not blocking his pathway to the NRL because at this time Da Silva is a good young player but cannot displace Koroisau.

What I said above pretty much covers this as well. My only question, before his management alerted the club, did Benji express ANY desire to keep him? All he has done is lather Api. That’s his prerogative, but it’s also the players prerogative to leave if he’s obviously not wanted. All of this defence of Benji and there isn’t even any evidence he wants him.

 

[Furious1]

if Api stays

Well......yeah, isn't that what the whole thing is about? He didn't say if Api stays Tallyn won't did he? That would be an ultimatum.

 

[Bus 2 Terrigal]

Benji's love for Api is for a reason.

That guy is a soldier, and he has single handedly won us games on many occasions. We're slowly building a team to support him, and I'm sure Benji thinks he deserves and should be a big part of that team.

If, and it's a big if, no one has had discussions with TDS about the plan around him and Api - only then it's a big mistake from Benji or the club.

To me, it seems mad that neither him or Richo would have been very clear with the long term plan for him. I have no doubt those conversations have taken place.

TDS just isn't happy with it - and that's fine. But don't blame it on Benji/the club.

Api is our starter for the rest of this season, and IMO the next depending on how he's traveling. No one will be starting TDS ahead of Api right now, and not many would be starting TDS ahead of Api next season - increased minutes for sure; and if he has a deal better than that, I can see why he might want to take it - though disappointed he doesn't want to be part of our future.

During the last offseason Jason Ryles received a ton of criticism when he made the difficult decision to push the heart and soul of his club out the door in favour of a bloke who’d played one NRL game.

A few months on and no one at Parramatta is complaining about the coaches choice 🤔

 

[NT_Tiger]

"chances are Tallyn will have to go", hardly an ultimatum.

Obviously there are other things playing out in the background as alluded to by another poster. If my memory serves me correctly, I think it was Wayne Bennett, used to to have the philosophy of it's better to let a player go a year early then keep them a year too long. Hope this doesn't end up being the case with Api.

The media and this forum are focussed on the notion that the 'it's him or me' element of this decision, thus making appear to be perhaps a bigger issue than it is. If the 'background issues', mentioned by phil 1986, are truly the camel straws then it appears impossible for Richo to find a middle ground with TDS which to me is the most desireable.

 

[Telltails]

It isn't an ego stroking contest where all players need to receive the public admiration from the coach.... He said API will be here.. woopty doo... Tallyn wants to leave if API is here . The choice is out of Benji's hands if he wants API to stay in any shape or form..

Tartak didn't mix his words. He said if API is here Tallyn wont be.. pretty aggressive thing to say to kick the captain out of the club as a 20 year old (via his manager)

And if that is the path the club takes look at the media shit storm around the club for dumping API.
Wouldnt matter what Benji's involvement is in this decision those that don't back him will bag him, and those that support him will give reason and the media will find away to make a negative about it no matter which way it goes.

 

[Red88_Tiger]

During the last offseason Jason Ryles received a ton of criticism when he made the difficult decision to push the heart and soul of his club out the door in favour of a bloke who’d played one NRL game.

A few months on and no one at Parramatta is complaining about the coaches choice 🤔

They haven’t forgotten just have other things to whine about. They will whinge when they play the dragons no doubt
Laughed my head off with Galvin duping them

 

[Kelce68]

Katoa and Iongi are not good comparisons because they had their path blocked by Australian representatives in their 20s.

The saying “Can’t keep them all” only works if a couple slip through the net.

We’ve lost Galvin, Large x 2, and now very likely TDS in the space of 6 months. These 4 along with Makasini formed our top 5 juniors. That is not good enough.

No we haven't.

We let Onitoni and Ashton go nearly a year ago.

Hardly anyone had heard of Ashton, who is also a hooker (for those who weren't aware), was 15 at the time, had (at least) Haywood, TDS, Hope, Api, etc, ahead of him, we really going to count him?

What about the fact the Onitoni left because, at the time, we had Latu, Galvin and Luai all contracted, for several years at least, at the club. This time last year, 5/8th was possibly our most stacked position, at least as far as prospects go.

TDS hasn't gone anywhere yet and is contracted for the next 18 months. It's now, currently, as above was when Large left, probably our most stacked position. Api is a lock and Haywood is nipping at Tallyn's (who I want to retain) heels.

So, not only have you shortened the time period to make your argument sound stronger, it's not telling the entire story.

In the same period of time, we've retained Heamasi, Haywood, Taupau-Moors, Godinet, Mason, et al. All highly-rated juniors, some more than others, all recently retained, despite heavy interest, especially in the case of Makasini and to a lesser extent Haywood, Taupau-Moors and Godinet at the least. I have no knowledge of any interest in Heath before his small extension. You can add the likes of Pole as well, a junior who recently spurned interest from Melbourne, despite being Victorian and having family in Melbourne, to re-sign.

This BS about us losing more gun juniors than anyone else, poor management, is simply not accurate anymore, like it was through the 2010s. We're also out poaching young, gun juniors from other systems and are more than happy to put them into our long-term plans in the 13; the Fainus (Manly), Tito (Penrith), etc.

I don't understand what people want. Genuinely. Do people want to lose no juniors at all? It's a fantasy.

This isn't negligence that has cost us some good young players in positions of need. The big outs of late have mostly (bar the anomaly that is Lachlan Galvin), been because of tricky and difficult logjams in positions we're relatively strong in, hooker, five-eighth, etc.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

No we haven't.

We let Onitoni and Ashton go nearly a year ago.

Hardly anyone had heard of Ashton, who is also a hooker (for those who weren't aware), was 15 at the time, had (at least) Haywood, TDS, Hope, Api, etc, ahead of him, we really going to count him?

What about the fact the Onitoni left because, at the time, we had Latu, Galvin and Luai all contracted, for several years at least, at the club. This time last year, 5/8th was possibly our most stacked position, at least as far as prospects go.

TDS hasn't gone anywhere yet and is contracted for the next 18 months. It's now, currently, as above was when Large left, probably our most stacked position. Api is a lock and Haywood is nipping at Tallyn's (who I want to retain) heels.

So, not only have you shortened the time period to make your argument sound stronger, it's not telling the entire story.

In the same period of time, we've retained Heamasi, Haywood, Taupau-Moors, Godinet, Mason, et al. All highly-rated juniors, some more than others, all recently retained, despite heavy interest, especially in the case of Makasini and to a lesser extent Haywood, Taupau-Moors and Godinet at the least. I have no knowledge of any interest in Heath before his small extension. You can add the likes of Pole as well, a junior who recently spurned interest from Melbourne, despite being Victorian and having family in Melbourne, to re-sign.

This BS about us losing more gun juniors than anyone else, poor management, is simply not accurate anymore, like it was through the 2010s. We're also out poaching young, gun juniors from other systems and are more than happy to put them into our long-term plans in the 13; the Fainus (Manly), Tito (Penrith), etc.

I don't understand what people want. Genuinely. Do people want to lose no juniors at all? It's a fantasy.

This isn't negligence that has cost us some good young players in positions of need. The big outs of late have mostly (bar the anomaly that is Lachlan Galvin), been because of tricky and difficult logjams in positions we're relatively strong in, hooker, five-eighth, etc.

Excellent response.

 

[Tucker]

So hard this one. I think we should do everything we can to keep them both tbh but if no matter what that isn’t possible, i think we neee to keep Api.

Api has three good years left in him IMO and if he can captain us back to the top 8 and retire a Tiger, he is a proper Tiger legend. He also has a great relationship with Benji and Jarome. Not easy call but that’s the way I’d be going

3 is a lot man, are you counting this year in that?

 

[Chunk]

No we haven't.

We let Onitoni and Ashton go nearly a year ago.

Hardly anyone had heard of Ashton, who is also a hooker (for those who weren't aware), was 15 at the time, had (at least) Haywood, TDS, Hope, Api, etc, ahead of him, we really going to count him?

What about the fact the Onitoni left because, at the time, we had Latu, Galvin and Luai all contracted, for several years at least, at the club. This time last year, 5/8th was possibly our most stacked position, at least as far as prospects go.

TDS hasn't gone anywhere yet and is contracted for the next 18 months. It's now, currently, as above was when Large left, probably our most stacked position. Api is a lock and Haywood is nipping at Tallyn's (who I want to retain) heels.

So, not only have you shortened the time period to make your argument sound stronger, it's not telling the entire story.

In the same period of time, we've retained Heamasi, Haywood, Taupau-Moors, Godinet, Mason, et al. All highly-rated juniors, some more than others, all recently retained, despite heavy interest, especially in the case of Makasini and to a lesser extent Haywood, Taupau-Moors and Godinet at the least. I have no knowledge of any interest in Heath before his small extension. You can add the likes of Pole as well, a junior who recently spurned interest from Melbourne, despite being Victorian and having family in Melbourne, to re-sign.

This BS about us losing more gun juniors than anyone else, poor management, is simply not accurate anymore, like it was through the 2010s. We're also out poaching young, gun juniors from other systems and are more than happy to put them into our long-term plans in the 13; the Fainus (Manly), Tito (Penrith), etc.

I don't understand what people want. Genuinely. Do people want to lose no juniors at all? It's a fantasy.

This isn't negligence that has cost us some good young players in positions of need. The big outs of late have mostly (bar the anomaly that is Lachlan Galvin), been because of tricky and difficult logjams in positions we're relatively strong in, hooker, five-eighth, etc.

Yeah maybe this is true but let’s focus on TDS. It’s clear, he is quality and has huge potential, certainly above the average local junior.

So for the sake of the future of the club, we need to keep him. Can we please finally keep a high quality junior. It’s been a very long time since we have (Brooks maybe)

He will attract players and we can finally build a team around him and others. He’s got 12 more years left in him….12

And if don’t, it’ll just be the same old thing.

 

[Tucker]

Api is our starter for the rest of this season, and IMO the next depending on how he's traveling. No one will be starting TDS ahead of Api right now, and not many would be starting TDS ahead of Api next season - increased minutes for sure; and if he has a deal better than that, I can see why he might want to take it - though disappointed he doesn't want to be part of our future.

This is the part where either many are being confused or are attempting to confuse others on purpose.
TDS is the backup in 25. He knows this and has acknowledged it
TDS is the backup in 26, unless he proves his worth late in the season. He knows this and has acknowledged it.
TDS considers 27 to be the year he becomes our fulltime No.9. Now if we dont think he will be ready by then by all means re-sign Api as well as him.
However...this decision needs to be managed properly. The kid is making waves saying he is not happy that he will still be considered backup in 27. Quite clearly, other clubs are stroking his ego. Good management talks him into staying. Good management convinces him that his career is better served staying here and learning from Api. Good management also reassures him that he will be no.1 choice sometime in 27 as Api will be busted and likely finished by then - he will be our first choice 9 for the vast majority of his next contract.
If Tallyn is now saying he wants out early and doesnt even want to consider an extension, then I suggest we have not managed the situation properly. The numbers this year clearly outline that we are better than a 50% chance of winnng games with an Api/Tallyn combination. Marshals refusal to use him this past month has resulted in 4 close losses. That is poor management.

 

[weststigerman]

No we haven't.

We let Onitoni and Ashton go nearly a year ago.

Hardly anyone had heard of Ashton, who is also a hooker (for those who weren't aware), was 15 at the time, had (at least) Haywood, TDS, Hope, Api, etc, ahead of him, we really going to count him?

What about the fact the Onitoni left because, at the time, we had Latu, Galvin and Luai all contracted, for several years at least, at the club. This time last year, 5/8th was possibly our most stacked position, at least as far as prospects go.

TDS hasn't gone anywhere yet and is contracted for the next 18 months. It's now, currently, as above was when Large left, probably our most stacked position. Api is a lock and Haywood is nipping at Tallyn's (who I want to retain) heels.

So, not only have you shortened the time period to make your argument sound stronger, it's not telling the entire story.

In the same period of time, we've retained Heamasi, Haywood, Taupau-Moors, Godinet, Mason, et al. All highly-rated juniors, some more than others, all recently retained, despite heavy interest, especially in the case of Makasini and to a lesser extent Haywood, Taupau-Moors and Godinet at the least. I have no knowledge of any interest in Heath before his small extension. You can add the likes of Pole as well, a junior who recently spurned interest from Melbourne, despite being Victorian and having family in Melbourne, to re-sign.

This BS about us losing more gun juniors than anyone else, poor management, is simply not accurate anymore, like it was through the 2010s. We're also out poaching young, gun juniors from other systems and are more than happy to put them into our long-term plans in the 13; the Fainus (Manly), Tito (Penrith), etc.

I don't understand what people want. Genuinely. Do people want to lose no juniors at all? It's a fantasy.

This isn't negligence that has cost us some good young players in positions of need. The big outs of late have mostly (bar the anomaly that is Lachlan Galvin), been because of tricky and difficult logjams in positions we're relatively strong in, hooker, five-eighth, etc.

We lost Large at the end of September, so 8-9 months ago if you want to be pedantic which you've extended to "nearly a year" to make your argument stronger.

Haywood was barely mentioned until Ashton was let go despite being a couple of years younger than Haywood. I also did not say TDS is gone yet, but I think you can see the writing on the wall there. I'm sure you said the same about Paps when we lost him and Tedesco in the same year.

Onitini was without doubt the highest rated player we had in our junior ranks and he left because we refused to put a clause in his contract to allow him to leave if Galvin re-signs, you know, the same clause than Jonah Pezet has who is behind Jahrome Hughes. In about 2 years I have no doubt he will be starring in the NRL unless injured or goes to rugby.

You can bury your head in the sand about WT just as many juniors as other clubs if you like but the facts tell a different story.

You can beat your chest about the Fainus when we re-sign them, same with Makasini and the others you mentioned after they hit first grade.

 

[Rock Hopper Steve]

This is the part where either many are being confused or are attempting to confuse others on purpose.
TDS is the backup in 25. He knows this and has acknowledged it
TDS is the backup in 26, unless he proves his worth late in the season. He knows this and has acknowledged it.
TDS considers 27 to be the year he becomes our fulltime No.9. Now if we dont think he will be ready by then by all means re-sign Api as well as him.
However...this decision needs to be managed properly. The kid is making waves saying he is not happy that he will still be considered backup in 27. Quite clearly, other clubs are stroking his ego. Good management talks him into staying. Good management convinces him that his career is better served staying here and learning from Api. Good management also reassures him that he will be no.1 choice sometime in 27 as Api will be busted and likely finished by then - he will be our first choice 9 for the vast majority of his next contract.
If Tallyn is now saying he wants out early and doesnt even want to consider an extension, then I suggest we have not managed the situation properly. The numbers this year clearly outline that we are better than a 50% chance of winnng games with an Api/Tallyn combination. Marshals refusal to use him this past month has resulted in 4 close losses. That is poor management.

It wouldn't matter how good you managed his situation Tuck if he's convinced in his own mind he will be ready sooner than what's a realistic timeframe to become the main man.

As for the probability of more wins with him playing that's opinion and not a winning guarantee.

 

[Kelce68]

Yeah maybe this is true but let’s focus on TDS. It’s clear, he is quality and has huge potential, certainly above the average local junior.

So for the sake of the future of the club, we need to keep him. Can we please finally keep a high quality junior. It’s been a very long time since we have (Brooks maybe)

He will attract players and we can finally build a team around him and others. He’s got 12 more years left in him….12

And if don’t, it’ll just be the same old thing.

I hear you. It's not an easy decision. The club have acknowledged this. It's not negligence and there are legitimate points on both sides.

I'm not pro-Api or pro-TDS here.

I'm still on the side of selling the transition to Tallyn better from the club's perspective. If I'm annoyed at anything it's that they haven't been able to convince him of what seems like a pretty straightforward minutes-share, succession plan. It's not like Api's extension will be long.

But what Api represents and will continue to for this club as a leader and culture-bringer means that his value is far beyond just his role as starting hooker. That's the whole reason why this conversation is difficult. Having Haywood not too far behind Tallyn as well muddies the waters.

 

[Kelce68]

We lost Large at the end of September, so 8-9 months ago if you want to be pedantic which you've extended to "nearly a year" to make your argument stronger.

Yep, sweet. So '9' months ago, not 8/9. How do you look up the story, only to still round down by a month? 😂

Haywood was barely mentioned until Ashton was let go despite being a couple of years younger than Haywood.

Haha, what? Haywood was an Australian Schoolboy last year. Ashton was a 15 year old, unknown kid. Especially to those who aren't interested in following the pathways too closely.

I also did not say TDS is gone yet, but I think you can see the writing on the wall there. I'm sure you said the same about Paps when we lost him and Tedesco in the same year.

Um, what? You're sure of something I said from 10 years ago? Years before I was a contributor to the forum?

Onitini was without doubt the highest rated player we had in our junior ranks

Highly touted, for sure. 'Without doubt'? In a system containing Masi? At the least, 'plenty of doubt'.

and he left because we refused to put a clause in his contract to allow him to leave if Galvin re-signs, you know, the same clause than Jonah Pezet has who is behind Jahrome Hughes.

I know. He felt his pathway was blocked. What's your point?

In about 2 years I have no doubt he will be starring in the NRL unless injured or goes to rugby.

😂 'No doubt; other than these couple of things that do provide some doubt....'

You can bury your head in the sand about WT just as many juniors as other clubs if you like but the facts tell a different story.

Elaborate.

I'm not burying head in anything. Produce these facts. And, in order to do so properly, you must present a list of all the juniors other teams are losing regularly, considering your intention is to indicate that we lose our best and brightest at a rate more obviously higher than other clubs.

I suggest you start with the pathways programs of Brisbane and Penrith.

You can beat your chest about the Fainus when we re-sign them, same with Makasini and the others you mentioned after they hit first grade.

I'm not 'beating my chest' about anything. You wanted to discuss facts, I presented them.

And we are talking about juniors, why can you complain about non-NRL debuted juniors leaving (Larges), but I can't respond with non-NRL debuted juniors staying?

Also, what about juniors we have resigned who are playing NRL? Pole, Mason, etc..