Tevita Pangai Junior

[happy_tiger]

TPJ’s management have been informed we are no longer in the mix. Door firmly closed.

Not a good start to the day for us Tigers fans again...
I understand them not paying overs but surely they know we are NOT a desired club ATM and will keep getting this outcome until something changes or a player has no other options. @THE_POM
Fingers crossed they are at least looking at Dale finucane as its pointless having all this money and not getting a player we desperately need like him - Experienced campaigner

Appreciate the update and if there is others we are looking at we would love to know.

Be careful ...your starting to sound reactionary again .....

Starting to sound? It's nothing but reactionary. To paraphrase "I understand not paying overs but we need to sign someone". The concept is contradictory - you don't understand not paying overs if your priority is making "a signing".

The type of recruitment drive that some fans are asking for June 2021 ("please please sign a big name, please") is exactly what Ivan did in 2017 and has put a bullet in our roster efforts for the past 4 seasons. Packer and Mbye and Reynolds and Matulino - the forum was fine with the decisions, the size of the decisions, the length of the decisions, the "feel good" factor of doing some shopping and buying, and not one of those players turned out good value for money, driven by the coach who (we didn't know) had one eye on the door.

Well eventually ...as i said in the next post ...we have to spend approximately 94% of our cap for 2022 ....or we get fined ......and based on our season I wouldn't be rushing to upgrade anyone in our Top 30 ....as far as supply and demand go .....things get grimmer by the day ...people should be worried ...we finally have a war chest at the worst possible time recruitment wise and form wise .....

No doubt you will disagree and refuse to see that point .....

You don't ever have to pay overs for anyone.

If you do, OK, then at what risk? Of course nobody will argue that some players aren't worth taking the risk of paying overs. Top tier players I think fall into that category. Question is - is TPJ worth taking a risk on paying overs? Is TPJ a top-tier player? IMO no.

I don't want TPJ either .....but we have ended up having a war chest at exactly the wrong time to have a war chest ..especially when we look like bottom 4 material ......

Never a wrong time for a war chest mate. It's like saying it's the wrong time to have a million dollars.

And spend it on who exactly ..overpay juniors ....buy players at basically the same standard we already have .........

If we can't sign a Top 15-20 with this war chest ...something is seriously wrong ....true ??

Spend it on the existing contracts. You don't seem to be getting what I mean - if you have left-over money, you forward-pay existing players (your obligation) and hold on to the reserve. So pay Luke Brooks double for 2022 and half for 2023, which means the warchest survives over multiple seasons.

"If we can't sign a Top 15-20" - well we can sign them. I'm sure if you offered TPJ a million bucks he'd take it. I'm sure if I went to the bank and put my house down as collateral, they'd give me a loan to buy a Ferrari. It's about wise spending of the war chest.

I'll reiterate - war chest spending of the past has been HORRENDOUS. Terry Hill / Hopoate / Owen Craigie / Jarrod McCracken... Reynolds / Packer / Mbye / Matulino.

Why didn't you mention upgrades .....because you know many on here will shoot you down

Name 5 players that deserve upgrading ......which in real terms is paying overs to .....which is exactly what you have said not to do to external signings ......

5 years to fix us ...or bury us ......do us all a favour ...we don't deserve it

You said nobody deserves an upgrade. I said "ok what about forward payments?". I agree there isn't much point upgrading anyone right now, noting of course I have no idea what anyone is actually being paid.

If you have to spend a certain % of money, and there isn't an obvious candidate who deserves a bonus or a pay rise, you pay out the existing obligations and look again when the market is better.

So create a bigger war chest to attract players who don't want to come here at market value .....and finish even further down the ladder ....how appealing ......

Five years ...live and win or die

 

[happy_tiger]

I know I'll probably get shot down ...but I reckon Taumalolo might still have his nose out of joint

But is he still worth 1 million a year .....

 

[happy_tiger]

Absolute nonsense to think we had 'doubts' about him at this stage. Everyone knows who he is.

Reality is the Dogs are sitting there with that offer the Pom mentioned and they have snuck in yet again to take one off us whilst we jogged on the spot.

Burton
JAC
TPJ

They invariably get their man, we don't...

Us saying "have doubts, we are out" is saving face. Nothing else.

Why can't it be genuine? You don't sign people until you do your due diligence, which includes interviews and research.

So what happens, Tigers meet Pangai, tell them their plan for him, he seems indifferent or seems interested mostly in the money. You walk away and think about what has just happened. Maybe Tigers asked for references and they weren't good. Maybe he's got a bit of injury history they didn't know about.

The Bulldogs 2021/2022 are nothing but the Tigers circa 2017, throwing money about because they are desperate and they have money to throw. Their roster is shallow as a pond and they are spending in all the wrong places. Already their 2021 big signings are horrible failures, not even 12 weeks into the year - Cotric, Flanagan, Hetherington, Corey Allan. Joe Stimson was a bad purchase from Storm. Luke Thompson hasn't worked out yet. Corey Waddell from Manly is a plodder.

If you walk into a house auction and some lunatic is throwing their chequebook around, that isn't "sneaking under your guard" that is madness and you are better to save your money.

I don't think the Dogs recruitment for next year can be compared to ours previously. Yes, their recruitment up to now has been bad...but Burton is a legit star and we all know how good JAC is.

Re TPJ...there is 5 solid years of evidence as to 'who' he is. I really don't think our recruitment team only worked it out at the last min. The Pom said we tabled an offer...so they must have been very convinced to do so. They would have got all those references you mention 'before' putting the offer on the table, surely?

I reckon the Dogs finish further up the table than we do in 2022 .....based on current recruitment

 

[WT46]

Absolute nonsense to think we had 'doubts' about him at this stage. Everyone knows who he is.

Reality is the Dogs are sitting there with that offer the Pom mentioned and they have snuck in yet again to take one off us whilst we jogged on the spot.

Burton
JAC
TPJ

They invariably get their man, we don't...

Us saying "have doubts, we are out" is saving face. Nothing else.

Watch the dogs pay overs for him. They're bloody stupid with their cap management. No wonder why they're atrociously rubbish. I guess TPJ wants to retire early if he goes there.

 

[Tiger5150]

Eventually we have to buy someone ....we can't have more than a 6% variance in what we are given cap wise and what we spend

And before some one starts spruiking upgrades on the current roster .....I'm not sure I'd be upgrading anyone at the moment

Easy fix - you front-load an existing contract, so long as you have the required # players contracted.

YOu need to be as careful front loading as backloading.

Front loading could result in a few wanting to get out of their last year.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

We've the framework in place to attract indigenous talent. I hope we are scouring indigenous communities via Ron Griffiths to unearth the next JAC, Amos Roberts, Inglis or Mitchell. Rugby league owes a great debt to our indigenous communities.

 

[TheDaBoss]

I know I'll probably get shot down ...but I reckon Taumalolo might still have his nose out of joint

But is he still worth 1 million a year .....

I would throw that 700k plus more at him

 

[jirskyr]

Absolute nonsense to think we had 'doubts' about him at this stage. Everyone knows who he is.

Reality is the Dogs are sitting there with that offer the Pom mentioned and they have snuck in yet again to take one off us whilst we jogged on the spot.

Burton
JAC
TPJ

They invariably get their man, we don't...

Us saying "have doubts, we are out" is saving face. Nothing else.

Why can't it be genuine? You don't sign people until you do your due diligence, which includes interviews and research.

So what happens, Tigers meet Pangai, tell them their plan for him, he seems indifferent or seems interested mostly in the money. You walk away and think about what has just happened. Maybe Tigers asked for references and they weren't good. Maybe he's got a bit of injury history they didn't know about.

The Bulldogs 2021/2022 are nothing but the Tigers circa 2017, throwing money about because they are desperate and they have money to throw. Their roster is shallow as a pond and they are spending in all the wrong places. Already their 2021 big signings are horrible failures, not even 12 weeks into the year - Cotric, Flanagan, Hetherington, Corey Allan. Joe Stimson was a bad purchase from Storm. Luke Thompson hasn't worked out yet. Corey Waddell from Manly is a plodder.

If you walk into a house auction and some lunatic is throwing their chequebook around, that isn't "sneaking under your guard" that is madness and you are better to save your money.

I don't think the Dogs recruitment for next year can be compared to ours previously. Yes, their recruitment up to now has been bad...but Burton is a legit star and we all know how good JAC is.

Re TPJ...there is 5 solid years of evidence as to 'who' he is. I really don't think our recruitment team only worked it out at the last min. The Pom said we tabled an offer...so they must have been very convinced to do so. They would have got all those references you mention 'before' putting the offer on the table, surely?

I don't claim to know anything about it. I'm not making inferences.

The comment from Nicolusi, not even an official comment from Tigers, is that Tigers "are convinced he's not a good fit". Brent Read used the term "go cold".

You said "having doubts" at this time point is nonsense. But you don't know anything about it. Tigers may have had doubts the entire time and were seeing what the cost would be, to see if the player was genuine and a good fit, to see if the coach liked him.

Is there anyone on the forum that thinks it's actually a good idea to spend 700K on Pangai?

Last time Hartigan talked to our group about recruitment, he talked about the "player fit" part of recruitment, to be the right type of player to bring on board, regardless of his footballing ability. You can't determine the personality and character of a person from a piece of paper. Job interviews exist for a reason. Good recruiters, and I'm not saying Tigers are necessarily good recruiters, but good ones can tell the qualities of a potential employee from speaking to them and asking good questions.

But it may not have anything to do with Pangai as a person, it may simply be that the asking price isn't a good fit for what Tigers are looking for. It may be that Tigers flew up to Brisbane, if true, to meet Pangai because they smelled a potential bargain. And maybe, as happened the last year or two, when the stupid Bulldogs bring themselves to the table, everyone groans and waits for the stupidity money to come out.

 

[WT46]

Another good thing that now he ain't coming here is that it won't blocked the pathway for some of our up and coming back rowers, one of them being Kelma Tuilagi.

 

[tigeress]

Eventually we have to buy someone ....we can't have more than a 6% variance in what we are given cap wise and what we spend

And before some one starts spruiking upgrades on the current roster .....I'm not sure I'd be upgrading anyone at the moment

Easy fix - you front-load an existing contract, so long as you have the required # players contracted.

YOu need to be as careful front loading as backloading.

Front loading could result in a few wanting to get out of their last year.

I don't think it matters if you frontload or backload these days, as contracts of any sort in this game don't seem to mean a thing unfortunately :angry:

 

[tony soprano]

We've the framework in place to attract indigenous talent. I hope we are scouring indigenous communities via Ron Griffiths to unearth the next JAC, Amos Roberts, Inglis or Mitchell. Rugby league owes a great debt to our indigenous communities.

Laurie posted some highlights of a gun cousin of his on Insta looked good

 

[Tiger5150]

Paying overs for inconsistent players is not how you turn a club into being successful

you are 100% correct but you will never win a comp with all juniors in a side because they need the guidance and experience for which we lack.. I personally think we are holding onto the bad decisions of the past E.g Reynolds / Packer and we need to more on. We just need to get the 1st high profile one to start the domino effect but they will not come here for peanuts and I cannot blame them.
As a club we have ample money available and need to take a risk because it doesn't roll over to the next year. I am not saying pay TPJ or Funicane 900k but if we offered Funicane 650k for the 3 years he wants I think he would do wonders to these young guys both on and off the field. Call it an investment into all these young players we brought as they are currently looking up to Packer and Mbye.. let that sink in.

Ask Penrith how they are going with their juniors.

Haven't won a comp yet but they will soon.. They also have some experienced players that help lead the team.

But were the experienced players "Marquee" players when they signed them?

I followed up on this one last night and said they had some quality premiership players like Tamou, Zane Tetevano, Mansour, Malony, API, Capewell, Fisher Harris. Not all classed as Marquee but they had a lot of experience in SOO or Rep level games to assist in there development..
But the biggest thing Panthers have is they have most of the core squad playing juniors together and it shows now as they understand each other. We as a club are trying to do this with the juniors and have done a excellent job the last 2 years but my point was I think we need some experienced players like the Panther had to help them through difficult times - E.g. Panthers 2 years ago started the season off terrible ( i think they were 1-10 or something like that) and the leadership they had helped them through it and look at them now.
Good luck to them as they are looking very good for years to come.

And you can’t expect to repeat their success either, probably the most talented batch of junior to come through at a club together in history.

Well since the Balmain Kids in the 80's, or the Balmain/Campbo kids early 00's

 

[jirskyr]

I don’t think the Dogs recruitment for next year can be compared to ours previously. Yes, their recruitment up to now has been bad…but Burton is a legit star and we all know how good JAC is.

Also specifically to their recruitment 2022 - I would actually be concerned. Yes JAC is a star - who is going to give him the ball? He doesn't score tries all by himself at Melbourne.

Burton - honestly I'm not convinced. I have been thoroughly underwhelmed by his halves matches this year. Couldn't even get his side competitive against Tigers or Sharks. He's done very well playing outside Luai and Cleary, but as Origin has shown, so has everybody.

Burton gets another chance this week against the Eels, but I would be a little bit nervous that he might not produce as a half in 2022. Not saying he's not worth it - absolutely Bulldogs were right to go for it, they have nothing in the halves right now. Who is Burton's partner in 2022? Averillo? Who is doing the organising?

 

[Tiger5150]

You develop Tuki Simpkins to be our Pangai Jnr.. you develop Tuilagi to be our Dale Funicane already here .. at a fraction of the cost

That is the route we have no choice in taking …paying overs for names has failed every time…Getting players already in the system playing over their pay grade is the choice they have made…just means we have to wait unfortunately ..

Fans have been waiting over a decade. Asking them to wait another 5 years for the administration to sort out the mess they created in the first place is asking too much.

Time to give it away then

And in 5 years when they’ve failed again, do we give them another 5 years?

All we get from this club is bullshit excuses. It will wear thin on everyone eventually.

I don't understand how 2021 is the breaking point for some fans. Either Balmain or Wests, it's 30 years of not making a consistent impact. Magpies had a little flutter in the 90s, WT had two good stints, the rest of it sub-optimal.

It's not acceptable but it is normal. Surely the time for "wearing thin" was past many many years ago.

It’s the nature of the losses for me, conceding 60 points in 50 minutes. Why should we care when the people employed by the club don’t appear to. An apology to members would have been appropriate.

Are you serious? You want grown men to apologise to you?

I want my team to have a bit more spine than that.

 

[ElleryHanley]

Absolute nonsense to think we had 'doubts' about him at this stage. Everyone knows who he is.

Reality is the Dogs are sitting there with that offer the Pom mentioned and they have snuck in yet again to take one off us whilst we jogged on the spot.

Burton
JAC
TPJ

They invariably get their man, we don't...

Us saying "have doubts, we are out" is saving face. Nothing else.

Why can't it be genuine? You don't sign people until you do your due diligence, which includes interviews and research.

So what happens, Tigers meet Pangai, tell them their plan for him, he seems indifferent or seems interested mostly in the money. You walk away and think about what has just happened. Maybe Tigers asked for references and they weren't good. Maybe he's got a bit of injury history they didn't know about.

The Bulldogs 2021/2022 are nothing but the Tigers circa 2017, throwing money about because they are desperate and they have money to throw. Their roster is shallow as a pond and they are spending in all the wrong places. Already their 2021 big signings are horrible failures, not even 12 weeks into the year - Cotric, Flanagan, Hetherington, Corey Allan. Joe Stimson was a bad purchase from Storm. Luke Thompson hasn't worked out yet. Corey Waddell from Manly is a plodder.

If you walk into a house auction and some lunatic is throwing their chequebook around, that isn't "sneaking under your guard" that is madness and you are better to save your money.

I don't think the Dogs recruitment for next year can be compared to ours previously. Yes, their recruitment up to now has been bad...but Burton is a legit star and we all know how good JAC is.

Re TPJ...there is 5 solid years of evidence as to 'who' he is. I really don't think our recruitment team only worked it out at the last min. The Pom said we tabled an offer...so they must have been very convinced to do so. They would have got all those references you mention 'before' putting the offer on the table, surely?

I don't claim to know anything about it. I'm not making inferences.

The comment from Nicolusi, not even an official comment from Tigers, is that Tigers "are convinced he's not a good fit". Brent Read used the term "go cold".

You said "having doubts" at this time point is nonsense. But you don't know anything about it. Tigers may have had doubts the entire time and were seeing what the cost would be, to see if the player was genuine and a good fit, to see if the coach liked him.

Is there anyone on the forum that thinks it's actually a good idea to spend 700K on Pangai?

Last time Hartigan talked to our group about recruitment, he talked about the "player fit" part of recruitment, to be the right type of player to bring on board, regardless of his footballing ability. You can't determine the personality and character of a person from a piece of paper. Job interviews exist for a reason. Good recruiters, and I'm not saying Tigers are necessarily good recruiters, but good ones can tell the qualities of a potential employee from speaking to them and asking good questions.

But it may not have anything to do with Pangai as a person, it may simply be that the asking price isn't a good fit for what Tigers are looking for. It may be that Tigers flew up to Brisbane, if true, to meet Pangai because they smelled a potential bargain. And maybe, as happened the last year or two, when the stupid Bulldogs bring themselves to the table, everyone groans and waits for the stupidity money to come out.

I can only go on what the Pom said...and he has a long history of being reliable.

We tabled an offer...we have chased him for weeks...we targeted offloading ability...

I don't believe we 'went cold' this late. TPJ's "friends" are well known. I don't believe a professional recruitment team would not have known all this a month ago.

If we are waiting for a bargain price on a big name...well, JTJ and BJ have not exactly worked out. IMO we have to spend 'and' land the right players. Players go to the roosters and storm for lower wages / chance to win comps...no one decent is coming to us cheaply.

 

[jirskyr]

TPJ’s management have been informed we are no longer in the mix. Door firmly closed.

Not a good start to the day for us Tigers fans again...
I understand them not paying overs but surely they know we are NOT a desired club ATM and will keep getting this outcome until something changes or a player has no other options. @THE_POM
Fingers crossed they are at least looking at Dale finucane as its pointless having all this money and not getting a player we desperately need like him - Experienced campaigner

Appreciate the update and if there is others we are looking at we would love to know.

Be careful ...your starting to sound reactionary again .....

Starting to sound? It's nothing but reactionary. To paraphrase "I understand not paying overs but we need to sign someone". The concept is contradictory - you don't understand not paying overs if your priority is making "a signing".

The type of recruitment drive that some fans are asking for June 2021 ("please please sign a big name, please") is exactly what Ivan did in 2017 and has put a bullet in our roster efforts for the past 4 seasons. Packer and Mbye and Reynolds and Matulino - the forum was fine with the decisions, the size of the decisions, the length of the decisions, the "feel good" factor of doing some shopping and buying, and not one of those players turned out good value for money, driven by the coach who (we didn't know) had one eye on the door.

Well eventually ...as i said in the next post ...we have to spend approximately 94% of our cap for 2022 ....or we get fined ......and based on our season I wouldn't be rushing to upgrade anyone in our Top 30 ....as far as supply and demand go .....things get grimmer by the day ...people should be worried ...we finally have a war chest at the worst possible time recruitment wise and form wise .....

No doubt you will disagree and refuse to see that point .....

You don't ever have to pay overs for anyone.

If you do, OK, then at what risk? Of course nobody will argue that some players aren't worth taking the risk of paying overs. Top tier players I think fall into that category. Question is - is TPJ worth taking a risk on paying overs? Is TPJ a top-tier player? IMO no.

I don't want TPJ either .....but we have ended up having a war chest at exactly the wrong time to have a war chest ..especially when we look like bottom 4 material ......

Never a wrong time for a war chest mate. It's like saying it's the wrong time to have a million dollars.

And spend it on who exactly ..overpay juniors ....buy players at basically the same standard we already have .........

If we can't sign a Top 15-20 with this war chest ...something is seriously wrong ....true ??

Spend it on the existing contracts. You don't seem to be getting what I mean - if you have left-over money, you forward-pay existing players (your obligation) and hold on to the reserve. So pay Luke Brooks double for 2022 and half for 2023, which means the warchest survives over multiple seasons.

"If we can't sign a Top 15-20" - well we can sign them. I'm sure if you offered TPJ a million bucks he'd take it. I'm sure if I went to the bank and put my house down as collateral, they'd give me a loan to buy a Ferrari. It's about wise spending of the war chest.

I'll reiterate - war chest spending of the past has been HORRENDOUS. Terry Hill / Hopoate / Owen Craigie / Jarrod McCracken... Reynolds / Packer / Mbye / Matulino.

Why didn't you mention upgrades .....because you know many on here will shoot you down

Name 5 players that deserve upgrading ......which in real terms is paying overs to .....which is exactly what you have said not to do to external signings ......

5 years to fix us ...or bury us ......do us all a favour ...we don't deserve it

You said nobody deserves an upgrade. I said "ok what about forward payments?". I agree there isn't much point upgrading anyone right now, noting of course I have no idea what anyone is actually being paid.

If you have to spend a certain % of money, and there isn't an obvious candidate who deserves a bonus or a pay rise, you pay out the existing obligations and look again when the market is better.

So create a bigger war chest to attract players who don't want to come here at market value .....and finish even further down the ladder ....how appealing ......

Five years ...live and win or die

That's baloney, no risk to Tigers whatsoever. Financially sound, NRL will not move or remove us forcibly.

 

[BZN]

So if @iofthetigers news is true we can finish this thread here.


I think @iofthetigers was talking about Angus Crichton

Correct, I haven’t heard anything about TPJ


Thanks for confirmation, might calm a few down here I hope

Comprehension isn't a strong point on here.

I blame the school teachers.

:joy: :joy: :joy:

 

[jirskyr]

Absolute nonsense to think we had 'doubts' about him at this stage. Everyone knows who he is.

Reality is the Dogs are sitting there with that offer the Pom mentioned and they have snuck in yet again to take one off us whilst we jogged on the spot.

Burton
JAC
TPJ

They invariably get their man, we don't...

Us saying "have doubts, we are out" is saving face. Nothing else.

Why can't it be genuine? You don't sign people until you do your due diligence, which includes interviews and research.

So what happens, Tigers meet Pangai, tell them their plan for him, he seems indifferent or seems interested mostly in the money. You walk away and think about what has just happened. Maybe Tigers asked for references and they weren't good. Maybe he's got a bit of injury history they didn't know about.

The Bulldogs 2021/2022 are nothing but the Tigers circa 2017, throwing money about because they are desperate and they have money to throw. Their roster is shallow as a pond and they are spending in all the wrong places. Already their 2021 big signings are horrible failures, not even 12 weeks into the year - Cotric, Flanagan, Hetherington, Corey Allan. Joe Stimson was a bad purchase from Storm. Luke Thompson hasn't worked out yet. Corey Waddell from Manly is a plodder.

If you walk into a house auction and some lunatic is throwing their chequebook around, that isn't "sneaking under your guard" that is madness and you are better to save your money.

I don't think the Dogs recruitment for next year can be compared to ours previously. Yes, their recruitment up to now has been bad...but Burton is a legit star and we all know how good JAC is.

Re TPJ...there is 5 solid years of evidence as to 'who' he is. I really don't think our recruitment team only worked it out at the last min. The Pom said we tabled an offer...so they must have been very convinced to do so. They would have got all those references you mention 'before' putting the offer on the table, surely?

I reckon the Dogs finish further up the table than we do in 2022 .....based on current recruitment

It's not the Tigers that the Dogs have to displace in the finals.

 

[BZN]

So if @iofthetigers news is true we can finish this thread here.


I think @iofthetigers was talking about Angus Crichton

Correct, I haven’t heard anything about TPJ


Thanks for confirmation, might calm a few down here I hope

Comprehension isn't a strong point on here.

I blame the school teachers.

Yeah its got bad since I left the profession.

:joy: :joy: :joy:

 

[jirskyr]

I know I'll probably get shot down ...but I reckon Taumalolo might still have his nose out of joint

But is he still worth 1 million a year .....

I would throw that 700k plus more at him

Mate you still fell well short of a million per year for, what, another 6.5 years?