THE 4......THREAD

[Bird is the Word]

Wests Tigers' chances of retaining 'big four' plummet after mystery mentor's departure

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/wests-tigers-chances-of-retaining-big-four-plummet-after-mystery-mentors-departure-20170318-gv12nb.html

Wests Tigers' chances of retaining their "big four" off-contract stars have plummeted after negotiations to bring their mystery mentor to the club broke down.

Tigers powerbrokers were in talks to find a role for Joe Wehbe, known in football circles as the "football whisperer". Wehbe has been a sounding board for free agents Luke Brooks, Mitchell Moses, James Tedesco and Aaron Woods, who are among a legion of NRL stars secretly seeking his counsel. Knowing of the bond between Wehbe and the quartet, Tigers officials realised his presence at the joint-venture outfit could be an inducement for them to re-sign.

Wehbe spent time with the entire Tigers squad some weeks ago on a trial basis in a pointer towards an ongoing role at Concord. It is understood that Woods, Tedesco, Moses and Brooks welcomed the move, to the point they were poised to put pen to paper and commit to the Tigers long term. However, there was some resistance to Wehbe's presence from some staffers, resulting in the property developer walking away from the club.

Wehbe's departure has angered the quartet and is a major setback in contract negotiations. It is one of several hiccups in signing discussions with Isaac Moses, a friend of Wehbe's and the manager of all four players.

The Tigers stars continue to consult with Wehbe, a peak performance coach during Stephen Kearney's stint with the New Zealand Test team, on their own time. Wehbe is an intensely private person and the players respect his wish to keep their sessions confidential. Kearney, while an assistant at the Broncos last year, brought Wehbe to Red Hill for a series of training sessions. However, any media queries about the man described as a "touch footy guru" were quickly shot down.

The Wehbe situation is one of several stumbling blocks the Tigers face in retaining their most valuable players. Coach Jason Taylor is also off contract and the players would prefer to know who they'll be playing under before deciding whether to recommit. The club has also been rocked by revelations from disgraced former centre Tim Simona, who claimed he took cocaine with teammates during mad Monday celebrations several years ago.

Rival clubs are prepared to make big-money approaches to the Tigers quarter, but the club is still hopeful of retaining them all. The players' preference is to remain together, but it remains to be seen whether that will eventuate.

The signatures of the quartet remain the priority, but the Tigers can't afford to be idle in the player market. Former Maroons forward Chris McQueen has met with club officials and is a strong chance of making the shift from the Titans back to Sydney.

"Mystery Mentor", "Football Whisperer", "Angered the quartet"… I am sure Ted, Woods, Moses and Brooks are sitting around feeling angry about this revelation... Please, what a ridiculous article... Who is this Adrian Proszenko joker? Guess when you have KPIs to meet, you don't have the time to wait around for an actual story...

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I'm over it. We should have had at least one or two of them locked up before Christmas. To let it draw this long into the season is a joke. They stay great, they leave, so be it.

 

[matchball]

I came here to laugh about this football whisper guy.
Get the hell out of here with that rubbish.
This is nothing but a ploy to squeeze the club for coin.
Issac Moses represents all 4 of them and is great mates with whisper head.

I'm done with these unscrupulous player managers.
The halves better start showing their worth or he'll be mad that his commission will see a deduction.

 

[jadtiger]

Doesnt the old saying say that , Coaches should Coach . Administrators should Administrate. And Players should play? Gues that'll soon be coming out of the cupboard..
I wonder who will be the first player to be the recipient.
Imagine a player/ players, Manager, telling the club who should be the Coach , or any other employee.where did we put that Noose????

Agree with your comments but it's obvious a decision Taylor or another coach has to do made soon. I don't think WT will have the luxury of seeeing how the season goes. TBH after Raiders, Storm, Cowboys games the outcome should be rubber stamped either way.

If JT is not the way forward for once a new coach should have a good roster, heaps of cap room and a new centre of excellence next year. They have to go hard on a coach of some stature though, no more bargain basement appointments.

The tigers are not exactly known for the massive spending on the football department. If we spend to much on the coach, we may end up with a centre of mediocrity.

We already have a "centre of mediocrity" Harvey his name is Kev and every week he is consistently mediocre

 

[Harvey]

Don't worry, according to buzz it is not Wehbe that is the problem, they all want Payten as coach. This was always going to be a circus letting so many players (especially big names) come off contract at the same time.

Look at how Penrith have already tied down most their young stars on long term contracts. Is there a reason Pascoe does not work there anymore?

 

[methods]

The sooner JT is gone the better off we will be

 

[TCL]

Can't be too good, this whisperer. Only works half the time, works for teddy and woods but not so much for Moses and brooks.

I must be a tuck shop whisperer. I go to the tuck shop whisper my order, pay my money and whalaa I get results, happens at the coffee shop, Bunnings, bcf and golf mart.

I'm working on being the wife whisperer. But got shouted down by her management, the kids!

 

[earl]

I'd like to see Chris McQueen here so that sounds good. If we lose any of those 4 players excluding Tedesco I'm not fussed.

Sign Tedesco assuming he isn't asking for more money than what he is worth. Offer the other 3 fair wages and they can take it or leave it. If they don't sign immediately start chasing other players to fill those roles. If they refuse to sign or we sign someone else then they have to leave.

 

[TYGA]

Doesnt the old saying say that , Coaches should Coach . Administrators should Administrate. And Players should play? Gues that'll soon be coming out of the cupboard..
I wonder who will be the first player to be the recipient.
Imagine a player/ players, Manager, telling the club who should be the Coach , or any other employee.where did we put that Noose????

Agree with your comments but it's obvious a decision Taylor or another coach has to do made soon. I don't think WT will have the luxury of seeeing how the season goes. TBH after Raiders, Storm, Cowboys games the outcome should be rubber stamped either way.

If JT is not the way forward for once a new coach should have a good roster, heaps of cap room and a new centre of excellence next year. They have to go hard on a coach of some stature though, no more bargain basement appointments.

The tigers are not exactly known for the massive spending on the football department. If we spend to much on the coach, we may end up with a centre of mediocrity.

We already have a "centre of mediocrity" Harvey his name is Kev and every week he is consistently mediocre

Not bad but mediocre is middle of the road, average you are giving him too much credit.

 

[851]

I'm over it. We should have had at least one or two of them locked up before Christmas. To let it draw this long into the season is a joke. They stay great, they leave, so be it.

I tend to agree, other clubs can do it why can't we, not real fussed if 3 leave, but Teddy is a must.

 

[Swordy]

I'm over it. We should have had at least one or two of them locked up before Christmas. To let it draw this long into the season is a joke. They stay great, they leave, so be it.

I tend to agree, other clubs can do it why can't we, not real fussed if 3 leave, but Teddy is a must.

X3
A little part of me wants at least 2 of them to leave and we can just start afresh with plenty of $$$ on offer, and potentially a new coach. Im certainly getting over it all.

 

[TrueTiger]

I'm over it. We should have had at least one or two of them locked up before Christmas. To let it draw this long into the season is a joke. They stay great, they leave, so be it.

I tend to agree, other clubs can do it why can't we, not real fussed if 3 leave, but Teddy is a must.

X3
A little part of me wants at least 2 of them to leave and we can just start afresh with plenty of $$$ on offer, and potentially a new coach. Im certainly getting over it all.

You know what really gets me swordy,if we get beat today,everyone will be on the get rid of Taylor bandwagon,even if Brooks has a poor game that we have become accustom to..Why doesn't everyone realise that these guys are on big money and should know how to play the game,many times people have seen glimpses of their ability (Teddy and Woods not included,they have the writing on the wall) but aren't consistent at this level..it becomes the old" they can play,just not for JT",if they can't play for the coach then go elsewhere and produce the ordinary form they have for us,and see if that club puts up with the garbage….I really don't think Brooks has it,unless he produces a great game today and the rest of the season,then he is only an illusion of an NRL player...

 

[Snake]

I'm over it. We should have had at least one or two of them locked up before Christmas. To let it draw this long into the season is a joke. They stay great, they leave, so be it.

I tend to agree, other clubs can do it why can't we, not real fussed if 3 leave, but Teddy is a must.

X3
A little part of me wants at least 2 of them to leave and we can just start afresh with plenty of $$$ on offer, and potentially a new coach. Im certainly getting over it all.

The longer this goes on the more I am looking at each of players…Brooks for mine is kidding if he thinks he will get the money he is after ,if Moses wants the house well let someone else give him there house he defiantly is worth keeping but not at ridiculous amounts of money ..priority is Teddy and Woods and agree money could be spent elsewhere as there needs a few positions filled with NRL quality players.
The longer this goes on a couple of these players could get burnt as it is not happening on field where it counts.

 

[supercoach]

After today the odds are we will be stone motherless last on the comp and we have four players wanting a truck load of money,,,,doesn't make sense

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Brooks is such a quiet kid. I'd be very surprised if he was holding the club to ransom. That seems more up Moses ally. Moses is a talented kid, but he seems like the type who would have a self inflated opinion of himself, and probably more inclined to try and hold the club over a barrel as a result.

 

[tiga4eva]

Besides the Roosters and Teddy rumor,which he refuted,has there been any solid stories on any of these 4 being courted by other Clubs? They rolled the dice on playing well and enhancing there worth,another display by Moses and Brooks like last Sunday and they're hurting themselves. When forward packs get owned it is hard for halves to shine but Brooks just makes too many howlers way too often. Give them till end of April, otherwise move on.

 

[Harvey]

Rumours of dogs after Moses. Given their halves, I can see why. It is hard to put a value on these players until you know what the cap will be. If Reynolds is after 800k, then both our halves would be looking for the same or more.

Moses reminds me of Benji, you see the highlights and he pops up & you think how good. Then you look at the full game and see missed tackles, bad reads, pushed passes, dropped balls and realise how much he still has to learn.

 

[steve-o]

There's also rumours that the dogs are after Foran. They won't get Foran and Moses considering they have already signed Mbye to a long term deal

 

[Glennb]

You know what really gets me swordy,if we get beat today,everyone will be on the get rid of Taylor bandwagon,even if Brooks has a poor game that we have become accustom to..Why doesn't everyone realise that these guys are on big money and should know how to play the game,many times people have seen glimpses of their ability (Teddy and Woods not included,they have the writing on the wall) but aren't consistent at this level..it becomes the old" they can play,just not for JT",…snip

I think you are answering yourself here TT. As you say…"many times we have seen glimpses of their ability". They HAVE the ability. Inparticular talking about Brooks and Moses here. There are whole games where they look rep level halves followed by multiple poor games. Surely it is the role of a good coach, to develop a player such that they consistently perform at their best? Particularly when that coach is a former first grade half? Whose job is it to develop these guys and get them to perform consistently?

I was aginst the idea of Taylor coming to the Tigers but tried to give him a fair go. To be honest I think he has done some good things, particularly with regards to the club/team culture and weeding out some problems. He has made some very tough decisions and I give him a LOT of credit for that. My estimation of a him as a man has gone up over this time. However, my opinion of him as a coach remains about the same. I think what we are seeing from the team is about his limitations. This is as far as he can bring this team and whilst we dont have a roster of the Roosters or the other big clubs, this team is underperforming as are 2 of the "big 4".

For mine, Cleary would continue the hard nosed "no nonsense approach that Taylor has introduced to the club but with better actual football coaching ability. I look to what he did at the Warriors as form of what he can do with an underperforming team full of young talent. But to get back to the point of this thread, I look for what form a potential coach would have in developing young halves to assist Moses & Brooks and as evidence to make my case I present......................Nathan Cleary.

 

[Harvey]

You know what really gets me swordy,if we get beat today,everyone will be on the get rid of Taylor bandwagon,even if Brooks has a poor game that we have become accustom to..Why doesn't everyone realise that these guys are on big money and should know how to play the game,many times people have seen glimpses of their ability (Teddy and Woods not included,they have the writing on the wall) but aren't consistent at this level..it becomes the old" they can play,just not for JT",…snip

I think you are answering yourself here TT. As you say…"many times we have seen glimpses of their ability". They HAVE the ability. Inparticular talking about Brooks and Moses here. There are whole games where they look rep level halves followed by multiple poor games. Surely it is the role of a good coach, to develop a player such that they consistently perform at their best? Particularly when that coach is a former first grade half? Whose job is it to develop these guys and get them to perform consistently?

I was aginst the idea of Taylor coming to the Tigers but tried to give him a fair go. To be honest I think he has done some good things, particularly with regards to the club/team culture and weeding out some problems. He has made some very tough decisions and I give him a LOT of credit for that. My estimation of a him as a man has gone up over this time. However, my opinion of him as a coach remains about the same. I think what we are seeing from the team is about his limitations. This is as far as he can bring this team and whilst we dont have a roster of the Roosters or the other big clubs, this team is underperforming as are 2 of the "big 4".

For mine, Cleary would continue the hard nosed "no nonsense approach that Taylor has introduced to the club but with better actual football coaching ability. I look to what he did at the Warriors as form of what he can do with an underperforming team full of young talent. But to get back to the point of this thread, I look for what form a potential coach would have in developing young halves to assist Moses & Brooks and as evidence to make my case I present......................Nathan Cleary.

If that is the case, there are a number of poor coaches out there. Blokes that could not turn Chris Sandow (showed glimpses of ability) into a consistently performing star. JT, John Lang, Stephen Kearney, Brad Arthur and Ricky Stuart all had their go.

Sometimes it is not the coach, it is the player.