THE 4......THREAD

[Mighty_Tiger]

Apples and oranges.

Farah was pivotal in punting a few.

The top 4 want to know who the coach will be before committing their future. It's clear they want to stay but if JT or someone else joins it makes sense to know who will be leading the group.

Inhaven't heard or seen anything about JT staying being a negative, it's been the opposite. Previously with Farah that was far from the case. In saying that Incouldn't see them staying if we went another rookie coach as the players want to develope thier games which is natural. It would be JT or someone like Des/Bellamy/Robinson etc if they stay.

At the end of the day if JT can step up and get the team to perform now he will be safe, the big 4… will stay. If he doesn't then he shouldn't stay, we need to recruit a new coach and I doubt the big 4 will be consulted in that process...

so it's ok for them to threaten to go if they don't agree on a coach
How selective is that
Actually there hasn't been anything to say that they do or don't support Jt.
They just want it their way whatever that is.
What happens next time if they aren't satisfied with who's here.
Hypocrisy is alive right here.

Lol.
What are you basing your hypocrisy on?

You come across as one of those who spends all their time looking between the sand grains that turn out the reading of life direction.

How very deep :unamused: the hypocrisy is what you just read, but as you didn't understand it, Il try and simplify it.
Why is it OK to vilify one player for supposedly wanting to get rid of a coach that he thought couldn't Coach ( by the way, despite many here asking at times for some concrete evidence for this, I've never seen anyone reply with any at all) but think it's completely ok for 4 Players to try to force a decision on whose coaching next year, and by tying that together with a refusal to sign without getting a coach that suits them ( which is made pretty obvious by saying that they won't sign until they know) that's the hypocrisy
One thing I've never heard about the previous scapegoat was that he'l leave if he didn't get his own way, that's what our so called big four have implied

Good to know… where are these said quotes for the "big 4" that implies they will leave if they don't get the coach they want?

 

[Glennb]

I think you are answering yourself here TT. As you say…"many times we have seen glimpses of their ability". They HAVE the ability. Inparticular talking about Brooks and Moses here. There are whole games where they look rep level halves followed by multiple poor games. Surely it is the role of a good coach, to develop a player such that they consistently perform at their best? Particularly when that coach is a former first grade half? Whose job is it to develop these guys and get them to perform consistently?

I was aginst the idea of Taylor coming to the Tigers but tried to give him a fair go. To be honest I think he has done some good things, particularly with regards to the club/team culture and weeding out some problems. He has made some very tough decisions and I give him a LOT of credit for that. My estimation of a him as a man has gone up over this time. However, my opinion of him as a coach remains about the same. I think what we are seeing from the team is about his limitations. This is as far as he can bring this team and whilst we dont have a roster of the Roosters or the other big clubs, this team is underperforming as are 2 of the "big 4".

For mine, Cleary would continue the hard nosed "no nonsense approach that Taylor has introduced to the club but with better actual football coaching ability. I look to what he did at the Warriors as form of what he can do with an underperforming team full of young talent. But to get back to the point of this thread, I look for what form a potential coach would have in developing young halves to assist Moses & Brooks and as evidence to make my case I present......................Nathan Cleary.

If that is the case, there are a number of poor coaches out there. Blokes that could not turn Chris Sandow (showed glimpses of ability) into a consistently performing star. JT, John Lang, Stephen Kearney, Brad Arthur and Ricky Stuart all had their go.

Sometimes it is not the coach, it is the player.

Agree with you Harvey **_sometimes_** it is the player. Sometimes a player has the talent to be a rep player but has other personal flaws that prevent them from realising that potential. Your example of Sandow is a classic case, you can take your pick of personal flaws with that guy but I'd add that he never really had the talent to make to to rep level and when they banned the shoulder charge which was his little party piece and token effort at "defence" he was washed up, his personal flaws were icing on the cake. Also even though I agree with you in th epoint you are making, there are some dubious coaching examples you give in Sandows case (JT, Kearney, Lang…Sticky(?))

So as we both say, **_sometimes_** it is the player and not the coach, but in a situation where you have TWO young talented halves that are **both** not consistently realising their potential, I think the proportion of blame gets tipped firmly on the coaching side.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

No one has Said that " they will leave" but the implication that unless they get the coach they want , they won't resign, there's been plenty of articles in the last week and a half and a direct quote from Woods that he won't sign until he knows
You'll find it if you want to.
Il repeat , I don't have a problem with what they are doing. It's just showing up the hypocrites who lambasted Farah at every opportunity for the same thing.
Supposedly wanting to have a say in the running of the club.
Sorry this was a reply to Mighty Tiger.

 

[Glennb]

No one has Said that " they will leave" but the implication that unless they get the coach they want , they won't resign, there's been plenty of articles in the last week and a half and a direct quote from Woods that he won't sign until he knows
You'll find it if you want to.
Il repeat , I don't have a problem with what they are doing. It's just showing up the hypocrites who lambasted Farah at every opportunity for the same thing.
Supposedly wanting to have a say in the running of the club.
Sorry this was a reply to Mighty Tiger.

Big difference between saying you will wait to see who the coach is before signing and actively working against the coach.

 

[magpiecol]

No one has Said that " they will leave" but the implication that unless they get the coach they want , they won't resign, there's been plenty of articles in the last week and a half and a direct quote from Woods that he won't sign until he knows
You'll find it if you want to.
Il repeat , I don't have a problem with what they are doing. It's just showing up the hypocrites who lambasted Farah at every opportunity for the same thing.
Supposedly wanting to have a say in the running of the club.
Sorry this was a reply to Mighty Tiger.

Big difference between saying you will wait to see who the coach is before signing and actively working against the coach.

:righton: :righton:

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

No one has Said that " they will leave" but the implication that unless they get the coach they want , they won't resign, there's been plenty of articles in the last week and a half and a direct quote from Woods that he won't sign until he knows
You'll find it if you want to.
Il repeat , I don't have a problem with what they are doing. It's just showing up the hypocrites who lambasted Farah at every opportunity for the same thing.
Supposedly wanting to have a say in the running of the club.
Sorry this was a reply to Mighty Tiger.

Big difference between saying you will wait to see who the coach is before signing and actively working against the coach.

That's an opinion and that's fine.
If who is the coach isn't going to influence whether they sign or not, why hold off and sign.
They are inferring that if they don't like the Coach they WONT sign

 

[Glennb]

No one has Said that " they will leave" but the implication that unless they get the coach they want , they won't resign, there's been plenty of articles in the last week and a half and a direct quote from Woods that he won't sign until he knows
You'll find it if you want to.
Il repeat , I don't have a problem with what they are doing. It's just showing up the hypocrites who lambasted Farah at every opportunity for the same thing.
Supposedly wanting to have a say in the running of the club.
Sorry this was a reply to Mighty Tiger.

Big difference between saying you will wait to see who the coach is before signing and actively working against the coach.

That's an opinion and that's fine.
If who is the coach isn't going to influence whether they sign or not, why hold off and sign.
They are inferring that if they don't like the Coach they WONT sign

Not necessarily. They could be saying many things..like "Oh you've re-signed Taylor, good stuff where do we sign?"…or "Oh you've re-signed Taylor, good luck with that, see ya later"..or "Oh re are not going to extend Taylor and signed Cleary, not happy about that we are going to Dogs"...or "Oh you've not extended Taylor and signed coach X, thats awesome where do we sign?"

or...it could be as simple as "This is our first real opprtunity at a contract as an established first grader, we can see potential in the future and would like a long successful career in the NRL. I actually understand that its a team game and my success, career and future earning potential will be impacted by the team I play with and the support staff that will be guiding my development. I would like to make an informed decision on my future by not second guessing these things. Can I have some more information please?"

 

[matchball]

Just throw a huge offer at Tedesco for 1m a season and let the others play for a contract upgrade.
Tedesco has nothing left to prove.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

No one has Said that " they will leave" but the implication that unless they get the coach they want , they won't resign, there's been plenty of articles in the last week and a half and a direct quote from Woods that he won't sign until he knows
You'll find it if you want to.
Il repeat , I don't have a problem with what they are doing. It's just showing up the hypocrites who lambasted Farah at every opportunity for the same thing.
Supposedly wanting to have a say in the running of the club.
Sorry this was a reply to Mighty Tiger.

Big difference between saying you will wait to see who the coach is before signing and actively working against the coach.

That's an opinion and that's fine.
If who is the coach isn't going to influence whether they sign or not, why hold off and sign.
They are inferring that if they don't like the Coach they WONT sign

Not necessarily. They could be saying many things..like "Oh you've re-signed Taylor, good stuff where do we sign?"…or "Oh you've re-signed Taylor, good luck with that, see ya later"..or "Oh re are not going to extend Taylor and signed Cleary, not happy about that we are going to Dogs"...or "Oh you've not extended Taylor and signed coach X, thats awesome where do we sign?"

or...it could be as simple as "This is our first real opprtunity at a contract as an established first grader, we can see potential in the future and would like a long successful career in the NRL. I actually understand that its a team game and my success, career and future earning potential will be impacted by the team I play with and the support staff that will be guiding my development. I would like to make an informed decision on my future by not second guessing these things. Can I have some more information please?"

If they're not inferring that they could walk, why not sign now if that the case, once again the point has been missed, no matter

 

[Eddie]

The Big 4 is more like the big 1.

I honestly don't care what happens.

Good news for the club is they are driving their price down by the week (outside of Teddy)

 

[Glennb]

Big difference between saying you will wait to see who the coach is before signing and actively working against the coach.

That's an opinion and that's fine.
If who is the coach isn't going to influence whether they sign or not, why hold off and sign.
They are inferring that if they don't like the Coach they WONT sign

Not necessarily. They could be saying many things..like "Oh you've re-signed Taylor, good stuff where do we sign?"…or "Oh you've re-signed Taylor, good luck with that, see ya later"..or "Oh re are not going to extend Taylor and signed Cleary, not happy about that we are going to Dogs"...or "Oh you've not extended Taylor and signed coach X, thats awesome where do we sign?"

or...it could be as simple as "This is our first real opprtunity at a contract as an established first grader, we can see potential in the future and would like a long successful career in the NRL. I actually understand that its a team game and my success, career and future earning potential will be impacted by the team I play with and the support staff that will be guiding my development. I would like to make an informed decision on my future by not second guessing these things. Can I have some more information please?"

If they're not inferring that they could walk, why not sign now if that the case, once again the point has been missed, no matter

Yes you have missed the point but Ill spell it out a little slower. They have not signed because they want to know who the coach is going to be…..ok stay with me here.... this could be because thye LOVE JT...in which case they would say "Oh you've re-signed Taylor, good stuff where do we sign?",,,,OR (still with me?) they hate JT in which case they may say.... "Oh you've re-signed Taylor, good luck with that, see ya later". Then they may have a preference for a new coach and might want to know who that is....or they may just be responsible and intelligent and think..."This is our first real opprtunity at a contract as an established first grader, we can see potential in the future and would like a long successful career in the NRL. I actually understand that its a team game and my success, career and future earning potential will be impacted by the team I play with and the support staff that will be guiding my development. I would like to make an informed decision on my future by not second guessing these things. Can I have some more information please?"

Let me know if you require more information or have still missed the point.

 

[gallagher]

The Big 4 is more like the big 1.

I honestly don't care what happens.

Good news for the club is they are driving their price down by the week (outside of Teddy)

Thats if you believe that them re-signing is good for the club.
Any offer to brooks needs to be withdrawn.

 

[Eddie]

Interesting what Phil Gould had to say about them…

 

[Eye_Of_Da_Tiger]

Their stock price is tumbling.Tedesco is the only one we should be rushing to sign.

 

[TrueTiger]

The Big 4 is more like the big 1.

I honestly don't care what happens.

Good news for the club is they are driving their price down by the week (outside of Teddy)

Thats if you believe that them re-signing is good for the club.
Any offer to brooks needs to be withdrawn.

I watched Brooks last week and this week,he is scared of getting hurt…...last week he passed a ball to Idris at rocket speed and JI dropped it because he expected Brooks to take the tackle because Jamal had a defender right on top of him...this week he fire one to Rowdy who wasn't expecting it and dropped it because it was a hospital pass...

watch the replays of both games and see if Brooks doesn't offload due to panic..

Ive seen plenty of these players and it could be why he isn't producing the goods....as I have said before..you can be a star against your own age group...different kettle of fish amongst the hardened nrl players...

 

[hobbo]

The Big 4 is more like the big 1.

I honestly don't care what happens.

Good news for the club is they are driving their price down by the week (outside of Teddy)

Thats if you believe that them re-signing is good for the club.
Any offer to brooks needs to be withdrawn.

I watched Brooks last week and this week,he is scared of getting hurt…...last week he passed a ball to Idris at rocket speed and JI dropped it because he expected Brooks to take the tackle because Jamal had a defender right on top of him...this week he fire one to Rowdy who wasn't expecting it and dropped it because it was a hospital pass...

watch the replays of both games and see if Brooks doesn't offload due to panic..

Ive seen plenty of these players and it could be why he isn't producing the goods....as I have said before..you can be a star against your own age group...different kettle of fish amongst the hardened nrl players...

Getting run over by Junior Paulo should toughen the kid up !

 

[jirskyr]

Interesting what Phil Gould had to say about them…

What did he say? I was watching Fox.

 

[Harvey]

Have not seen either of our halves show that they are capable of controlling the team. Moses is flashy and today was awful. No defence and limited in attack.
Neither of the halves seem willing to take the line on and their runners generally do not get themselves in space.

 

[Tigertigertiger]

Brooks should pack his bags if he thinks he is worth 600k+

I blame these filthy player managers who talk these players up that much it's not funny

 

[innsaneink]

Interesting what Phil Gould had to say about them…

Do you mean what Johns said, and Gus agreed?