The halves problem

[Tom Shines]

If AD has trained there all pre season then he deserves more then two games. On paper he seems to have all the attributes to be a good half but thats on paper.

If not give Madden a go, he is an out and out halfback but I can't be as confindent as others because of two trial games against reserve grade teams. He also will need to of improved a fair bit from when he was here last time, we hope so.

He may well have but he is obviously the second string halfback, he would be starting now if he wasn't

We’ll know soon ,.. but I’d be betting AD is out this week still,..

 

[innsaneink]

Crikey the trust in Jock has certainly shifted on here compared to when he was signed. I maintain few teams have their attack working atm with plenty of talented combos not clicking and the fatigue factor taking it's toll. And while Jock is a solid replacement any expectation that he will provide some significant improvement is premature imo

He looked good in the trials but that was mainly against reserve grade level oppositions...i hope he goes well, im confident the forwards can give him the time and space all.halves need

 

[Flippedy]

A bit harsh there.

He's not your typical halfback, but we have close to $3m invested in our 1,6 and 9. We are paying our back up half $500k a year, for what he's probably getting paid, he's providing enough so far.

Every team needs to adapt to the squad they have. AD has a good kicking game, can execute 3 on 2s and defends reasonably well. Are we going to win the comp with him there, probably not, but he's the best halfback at this club right now.

Luai and Api need to be the ones organising the team around and getting AD in a good kicking position. Yes, it's up to AD to put himself there, but getting the support runners, blockers etc ready should be Api and Luai's job as much as it's AD.

Is that the ideal way to do it? No. But based on the squad we have, that's what we need. Luai and Api have the runs and the brains on the board to carry out 4th and 5th tackle options whereas AD has the skill.

I would have agreed with you at the start of last year that AD has selfish plays in him, but off late, he has actually walked the talk and gotten rid of risky cut out balls or hospital passes. If he's doing the big play, it's usually at a time when we need something to happen, not in the first 20-30 minutes of each half.

If it wasn’t for Doueihi we hardly win any games last season.

 

[king_sirro]

If AD has trained there all pre season then he deserves more then two games. On paper he seems to have all the attributes to be a good half but thats on paper.

If not give Madden a go, he is an out and out halfback but I can't be as confindent as others because of two trial games against reserve grade teams. He also will need to of improved a fair bit from when he was here last time, we hope so.

He may well have but he is obviously the second string halfback, he would be starting now if he wasn't

He doesn't seem to have the key ingredients on paper, thats the thing. They key ingredients for a 7 are the ones he is lacking in

 

[king_sirro]

If it wasn’t for Doueihi we hardly win any games last season.

Playing centre and an odd cameo at 7, yes.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Just glad to see an actual halfback in Madden there this weekend.

 

[TIGERS]

What do you mean we got beat by Sullivan ? I’m confused by that ? Because he did noting . It’s like saying Alex Seyfarth beat the cowboys ../ actually Seyfarth has a way better case for that to be true .

Point is you can win games without having immortals in the halves - so long as you have a balanced side. Of course he didn’t do much… but souths could make things happen not just out of set plays and block moves from their halves.

We are going to need Taylan back and Makasini / Bula to fire otherwise we are just gonna see more usual WT frustrations in the opponenrs 20. Our halves aren’t going to call in 4 / 5 tries a game in opponents 20 week in week out, esp with Bula being read like the daily telegraph as of late.

 

[crazycat]

No thanks, Farah could start a fight in an empty room. Love the guy but he's too antagonistic for his own good and the good of our club.

Keeps a photo on his desk of him drinking alone up on the grandstand after a game we lost that he didn't even play in. I just find that weird to take pride in that when all that drama around that time did so much damage to our club that we still feel the effects of today.

Bit of a strange person and I am really happy he's out of the picture. Getting physical with with David Furner was where I drew the line with him as a coach or a leader.

Yea, look it is weird.

But I get the vibe that "game we lost that he didn't even play in" was due to Jason Taylor and the whole trying to push Farah out. So he may have reasons...

Or he may just be a psycho...


I still reckon he could teach an upcoming hooker a thing or two. Yet you may have a very good point that Farah and Api might not sync.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Just glad to see an actual halfback in Madden there this weekend.

Madden is the 5/8-----------but it is Tuesday.

 

[SeanT]

I see just fine. Your points are wrong. Just because I highlight one thing to make a point doesn't mean I completely ignore another. You're making a really boring and pointless straw man argument. Maybe you can pitch an NRL Lowlights package to Fox and you can make clips of Mitchell Moses subtly milking penalties and playing short balls to his front rowers coming out of possession.

AD can absolutely play halfback. To say he wasn't under pressure taking kicks against the Rabbitohs is really strange. We dominated possession and field position from AD's kicking. Lost count of how many times we kept possession after knock ons from his kicks. We were losing and going nowhere in the 1st half. His kick changed the game out of nowhere. He and Api got sh1t going individually for us and you can't ask for much more than that from your senior pros. Ideally if Bula was as good as his writeups on here he'd have contributed couple of legit moments too and then we wouldn't even be having this argument.

Besides, why the hell would you say that AD should play 6 when we have an all time great in Luai to play in that position. It's the classic WT Forum fetish of eternal, banal ruminating over what is or isn't a 6 or 7, and blaming our halves for everything while we are turning up to games completely outclassed by our opponents outside backs. Without strike we are just going to be way, way too easy to read and easy to stop.

Did you notice that we got beat by Bud Sullivan, who IS a 16th place halfback. Why? Because their outside backs outgunned ours in and out of possession.

Yeah I think Dougie has done reasonably well. He's too slow for 5/8th but he has the footy smarts and a decent kicking game. We won't be too 4 with him but could definitely snag a finals spot. We need to have a full strength backline to fully judge how he and Luai go. Put Toa and May back in the centres and maraksini on the wing with turuva and it will change the dynamic.

 

[mtd#2]

The attack looked good with latu at first receiver, madden second receiver and douhei running onto it.

 

[old_man_tiger]

The attack looked good with latu at first receiver, madden second receiver and douhei running onto it.

Exactly. I think Luai would have looked great at 6 tonight but take nothing away from AD (wore 7 and played 6)
You can do a lot of things at 6 and 13, but its very hard to find a real 7. The reason madden looked good in the trials was he played deep and he kicked well. That is simple, repeatable stuff that he does better than he used to and why it looked like it would translate. Everyone elses job is easier when the halfback runs at the line anf passes deep, especially us as I think we are consistent one of the.most shallow attacks. If your half plays late like that and you get second phase (which we do) then playing flat becomes a strength.
Im not a coach or analyst but im not surprised our attack looked good because in the trials he showed he was the right guy for the shapes we play with, not a world beater in his own right.

 

[Adam Doobie]

Well that settles that argument. Jock Madden played insane, and Latu Fainu played well at lock. Doueihi was also classy.

 

[The Fresh Oil]

This thread is exactly title sums up my thoughts at halftime. How does Benji choose who gets to run out on the Sunday in early October. Don’t envy that job

 

[Demps]

Well that settles that argument. Jock Madden played insane, and Latu Fainu played well at lock. Doueihi was also classy.

1. Jahream Bula
2. Sunia Turuva
3. Adam Doueihi
4. Taylan May
5. Heamasi Makasini
6. Jerome Luai [C]
7. Jock Madden
8. Alex Twal
9. Apisai Koroisau [C]
10. Terrell May
11. Samuela Fainu
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Latu Fainu

14. Sione Fainu
15. Fonua Pole
16. Royce Hunt
17. Alex Seyfarth

18. Tino Tavana
19. Charlie Murray

Full strength?

 

[old_man_tiger]

1. Jahream Bula
2. Sunia Turuva
3. Adam Doueihi
4. Taylan May
5. Heamasi Makasini
6. Jerome Luai [C]
7. Jock Madden
8. Alex Twal
9. Apisai Koroisau [C]
10. Terrell May
11. Samuela Fainu
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Latu Fainu

14. Sione Fainu
15. Fonua Pole
16. Royce Hunt
17. Alex Seyfarth

18. Tino Tavana
19. Charlie Murray

Full strength?

I think its close mate. You could tweak the starting pack but thats the best way to play out best players.
I might consider a different 17 personally, but let someone earn it!

 

[watersider]

If Madden stays in that form, you pick him first and the rest around him.

A kicking game like that and an organising straight runner is what every club needs and we haven't had since Prince.

It's a choice between luai and doueihi at 5/8 based on that and you don't drop doueihi when he plays like that.

Hard for madden to stay that good though, that was an outstanding halfback performance. Absolute top shelf.

 

[SeanT]

If Madden stays in that form, you pick him first and the rest around him.

A kicking game like that and an organising straight runner is what every club needs and we haven't had since Prince.

It's a choice between luai and doueihi at 5/8 based on that and you don't drop doueihi when he plays like that.

Hard for madden to stay that good though, that was an outstanding halfback performance. Absolute top shelf.

The only issue I had at the end is that the Warriors were onto Madden kicking it every time. Korisou kicked it once but he needed to do it 3-4 times on the 4th to get out of trouble. Not sure how long until Douhie can kick but the best teams will target Jock if he is the only kicker. Needs back up

 

[Moh]

1. Jahream Bula
2. Sunia Turuva
3. Adam Doueihi
4. Taylan May
5. Heamasi Makasini
6. Jerome Luai [C]
7. Jock Madden
8. Alex Twal
9. Apisai Koroisau [C]
10. Terrell May
11. Samuela Fainu
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Latu Fainu

14. Sione Fainu
15. Fonua Pole
16. Royce Hunt
17. Alex Seyfarth

18. Tino Tavana
19. Charlie Murray

Full strength?

I think I like it.

Just really don't know about AD. It feels like he should be a good centre, but he's rarely had a good game there. He's only ever had a positive impact on the game wearing 6 or 7.

I know he's not necessarily a good half, but that's definitely where he has played his best.

Need to fit Jock, Luai, AD and Latu some how though.

 

[mtd#2]

1. Jahream Bula
2. Sunia Turuva
3. Adam Doueihi
4. Taylan May
5. Heamasi Makasini
6. Jerome Luai [C]
7. Jock Madden
8. Alex Twal
9. Apisai Koroisau [C]
10. Terrell May
11. Samuela Fainu
12. Kai Pearce-Paul
13. Latu Fainu

14. Sione Fainu
15. Fonua Pole
16. Royce Hunt
17. Alex Seyfarth

18. Tino Tavana
19. Charlie Murray

Full strength?

A few thoughts...

Douhei should never play centre again unless we are absolutely desperate.

Latu isnt a starting 13, he looks good because he comes on around the 50th minute mark when defences are tiring and are on the back foot. He isnt cut out to do the hard work we require from a 13 in the first half of the match.

I also wouldnt move Twal. He is in the best form of his life. Surprisingly, he has become a pretty good #13 who we can now rotate into the middle as we bring latu off the bench. I am impressed with his ball playing abilities.

Jocks defence is pretty bad. Tackled air for that 2nd warriors try.... but its hard to argue that he controls the game like a 7 should...

I am sure the chances of us having an injury free team is slim to none... which makes decisions alot easier... because at full strength I think there are some serious dilemmas.