The much fabled structure
- Thread starter Eddie
- Start date
851
Well-known member
The honeymoon is well and truly over for JT,and he needs to stamp his authority,whether we have better players or not in the lower grades is irrelevant,players have to be dropped.
Players need to know that what their putting up each week is not cutting it,not even close,but if they keep getting picked each week there is no consequences for their poor form or effort,so why will they change.
Players need to know that what their putting up each week is not cutting it,not even close,but if they keep getting picked each week there is no consequences for their poor form or effort,so why will they change.
The structure is very clear. We look good when we attack in their 20-30 which is the positive.
We are very limited in how we move the ball up the field, I d like to see us ask a few more questions with some expansive plays. The obvious options would be a left side shift where Siro can be either a runner or ball player (or decoy) with a sweep working around that structure, that would make a lot of yards, a few breaks and the occasional opportunity. But even a shift would do at this stage. If we work that on the 4th we can still set up for a kick on the 5th if need be.
I hope that the end plan is to be more expansive between the 30's
We are very limited in how we move the ball up the field, I d like to see us ask a few more questions with some expansive plays. The obvious options would be a left side shift where Siro can be either a runner or ball player (or decoy) with a sweep working around that structure, that would make a lot of yards, a few breaks and the occasional opportunity. But even a shift would do at this stage. If we work that on the 4th we can still set up for a kick on the 5th if need be.
I hope that the end plan is to be more expansive between the 30's
Black_n_White
New member
Unfortunately, these kinds of threads pop their head up when we lose. Our mixed form has everyone pulling their hair out.
I dont know how much is just venting, or if the masses truly dont understand what Taylor is trying to implement, but honestly, we all need to take a deep breath and get a grip of what he is trying to put together.
There are calls for the razzle dazzle of old to come back, completely understandable as it was entertaining to watch, but the same low percentage football that made us exciting was also responsible for the low percentage of finals appearances and titles.
If you want to understand what JT is trying to instill on the playing group at present, you need to look no further than the teams we envy with consistent success. There is a brand of football that the top teams turn to when the chips are down, momentum against them, in order to contain blow outs and grind back into a turn of tide. Now, we have been watching all season, and clearly we can all see how effective the system has been in many of the games we have played, even in some of our losses, though the ability of the team to implement the system for a full 80 mins is a very different story. While it isnt an exciting brand of football by any stretch of the means, it also isnt the final destination of Taylors grand plan either.
Since inception this team the Wests Tigers has has been mentally fragile. For most of our existence it was a story of extremes, the passes stick and we would set the world on fire, get behind and we would bleed out like an anemic emo, more often than not we couldnt pull it back together behind the sticks. Why? We have never had a default system in pace we had confidence in… our whole game revolved around a flick pass.
Now we have a coach who is trying to set a baseline of play for when the chips are down, but we are stuck treading water because our players are obviously a bit thicker than most, still to yet kick off the training wheels, and obviously not ready move on to the next lesson. None of the top teams who revert to our current style of play do it as poorly as we do, nor are they restrained from enterprising play either. Taylors plan isnt to restrict our young halves, at present it is supposed to be about reducing the pressure on our two apprentice halves by setting a basic yet effective style of play to ease them in. We are just unfortunately suffering because supposed professionals cannot even grasp the basics of modern day football. Taylor isnt trying to re-invent the wheel, the poor guy has to teach our team what a freaken wheel is.
I dont know how much is just venting, or if the masses truly dont understand what Taylor is trying to implement, but honestly, we all need to take a deep breath and get a grip of what he is trying to put together.
There are calls for the razzle dazzle of old to come back, completely understandable as it was entertaining to watch, but the same low percentage football that made us exciting was also responsible for the low percentage of finals appearances and titles.
If you want to understand what JT is trying to instill on the playing group at present, you need to look no further than the teams we envy with consistent success. There is a brand of football that the top teams turn to when the chips are down, momentum against them, in order to contain blow outs and grind back into a turn of tide. Now, we have been watching all season, and clearly we can all see how effective the system has been in many of the games we have played, even in some of our losses, though the ability of the team to implement the system for a full 80 mins is a very different story. While it isnt an exciting brand of football by any stretch of the means, it also isnt the final destination of Taylors grand plan either.
Since inception this team the Wests Tigers has has been mentally fragile. For most of our existence it was a story of extremes, the passes stick and we would set the world on fire, get behind and we would bleed out like an anemic emo, more often than not we couldnt pull it back together behind the sticks. Why? We have never had a default system in pace we had confidence in… our whole game revolved around a flick pass.
Now we have a coach who is trying to set a baseline of play for when the chips are down, but we are stuck treading water because our players are obviously a bit thicker than most, still to yet kick off the training wheels, and obviously not ready move on to the next lesson. None of the top teams who revert to our current style of play do it as poorly as we do, nor are they restrained from enterprising play either. Taylors plan isnt to restrict our young halves, at present it is supposed to be about reducing the pressure on our two apprentice halves by setting a basic yet effective style of play to ease them in. We are just unfortunately suffering because supposed professionals cannot even grasp the basics of modern day football. Taylor isnt trying to re-invent the wheel, the poor guy has to teach our team what a freaken wheel is.
WE really need to get the offloads happening.
A more effective kicking game, and Please put some pressure on their kickers.
I reckon the defence shows promise but cracks on the outside too much.
A bit more freedom for our runners and ball players…..stuff this one up crap
I reckon we have the players to do it.....with a bit of confidence, some luck, they can turn it around
A more effective kicking game, and Please put some pressure on their kickers.
I reckon the defence shows promise but cracks on the outside too much.
A bit more freedom for our runners and ball players…..stuff this one up crap
I reckon we have the players to do it.....with a bit of confidence, some luck, they can turn it around
I agree with Happy.
If they can't do what JT has asked them to do with the current game plan properly - what chance have they got to do all the things you people want them to do. None!
If they do what he wants properly - then he will move to the next step. Simple really.
Doesn't matter if it is boring - you need to be able to accomplish the task.
I would have been happy if they had turned up to play yesterday. I don't think they did.
In my opinion this was our worst game of the year.
Looked pretty flat to me, the forwards were not running onto the ball again. Even Marty looked out of sorts. So little go forward - no room for the backs, no expanse, no entertaining football.
Lovett and Ave were very ordinary - they really do need a skyrocket. Ave wouldn't get angry at an ant - Galloway, can someone teach him to run onto the ball, taking 2 steps before receiving is not on. Try running for 10 metres before you get it Sauce (or has the bottle got the lid on it). These forwards need to be livened up big time - no use even talking about the backs until this happens.
Taylor has been coach for 10 games - give him a go - he can't go out and play for them.
If they can't do what JT has asked them to do with the current game plan properly - what chance have they got to do all the things you people want them to do. None!
If they do what he wants properly - then he will move to the next step. Simple really.
Doesn't matter if it is boring - you need to be able to accomplish the task.
I would have been happy if they had turned up to play yesterday. I don't think they did.
In my opinion this was our worst game of the year.
Looked pretty flat to me, the forwards were not running onto the ball again. Even Marty looked out of sorts. So little go forward - no room for the backs, no expanse, no entertaining football.
Lovett and Ave were very ordinary - they really do need a skyrocket. Ave wouldn't get angry at an ant - Galloway, can someone teach him to run onto the ball, taking 2 steps before receiving is not on. Try running for 10 metres before you get it Sauce (or has the bottle got the lid on it). These forwards need to be livened up big time - no use even talking about the backs until this happens.
Taylor has been coach for 10 games - give him a go - he can't go out and play for them.
People thinking 5 hit us and a bomb are the teams we envy have got rocks in their head.
The successful sides might play within a structure, however they also have some creativity and second phase.
The way we are playing is dead set one out, one one out. That is not and never has been a formula for winning a comp or being a successful side.
The successful sides might play within a structure, however they also have some creativity and second phase.
The way we are playing is dead set one out, one one out. That is not and never has been a formula for winning a comp or being a successful side.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
@Black'n'White said:
Taylor's problem is some of our players think wheels are square still
weststigers
Well-known member
@Eddie said:
What's being said is the one out style of football we are playing is not the final plan, it's the foundation.
JT wants the players to get the basics of the structure right and be able to execute it 95-100% every game before adding the extra dimensions that our game plan currently lacks.
I reserve my judgment until the middle of next season when:
1\. The current crop of players has had time to adjust and learn what JT has in place
2\. JT recruits the players he thinks can work within the structure
It's too early to tell whether or not this will work, but we have managed to stay in games against really tough opposition this season. We could also be sitting on 6 wins had we beaten Canberra and the Bulldogs were it not for us falling asleep.
iofthetigers
Well-known member
After watching the game on the weekend what frustrates me(although I am a long way of an NRL coach standard) is if Tapau is to play back row he needs to be running of the edges not like an extra prop. Moses is not a structured 5/8 yet we have one of the most talented back rowers in the comp playing wide. I believe we should be playing a structure like Souths with Sironen playing a 5/8 role(like Stewart) & Moses /Brooks given free reign to pop up anywhere(but lead the team around.
@Black'n'White said:
Great post ..good explanation of what is happening and I see what Taylor is trying to do my only problem with this is it is a fine line for the club as there has to be at least average success to keep fans happy and the $$$ rolling in. It is all well and good for the coach to introduce these things but if it is going to take 3 seasons there will be a problem.
The club has not been setting the world on fire over the last few seasons financially or on the park so the coach HAS to get something out of the team or the whole thing will just be a waste of time.
It is a success based industry if the coach wants to take seasons he will be looking for a new job unfortunately,if the cattle will not learn There will have to be a mass clean out this season ala Penrith no matter who they are.
supercoach
Well-known member
Most teams play to the same basic structure that involves plenty of one out hit ups,but they also have plenty of players in motion on either side of the ball carrier that create some doubt for the defence and are there to support the ball carrier in the event of a break or half break. We send our one out runner into the fray without a support runner in sight. A couple of times Woods got himself halve through the line and was looking for support and their was no one within co-ee. It is a picnic day out for the other sides defence. I can not believe Taylor or any other coach would be coach their team to play to this structure.
Anyway from where I sit,it's just a lack of basic team work,and that may be a confidence thing,but for a club that now has a truck load of coaches and support staff they do not seem to be learning much!!!!
Anyway from where I sit,it's just a lack of basic team work,and that may be a confidence thing,but for a club that now has a truck load of coaches and support staff they do not seem to be learning much!!!!
stevetiger
New member
@Eddie said:
Exactly - JT's structure is non-existent. Structure is about having players hitting holes and creating space. JT just tells them to get to their kick and if you are in the opposition 20 you can pass it out wide or put in a grubber.
Jerry_Seinfeld
New member
@Black'n'White said:
This is the best post on this forum EVER. Too many impatient short sighted types trying to have a go at the one bloke(JT) who is trying to implement the RIGHT change in the fabric and core of this franchise(STRUCTURE).Even when we won the comp in 05 we had structure we dominated the play the ball with surrender tackles which enabled quick play the balls to then show our razzle dazzle. One area JT does need to improve though is implementing a hatred of losing ala Toovey, Hasler and Im sure then you will see a much better effort in the 1%ers that are so important like not losing a scrum feed 10 metres out from the opp line when down by 4 with 5mins left.If a Toovey or Hasler coached team did that they would be running laps for 48 hrs straight.
supercoach
Well-known member
I agree their has to be a structure and I am not calling for razzle dazzle football. I just think within your structure you have to at least have the other side in two minds with plenty of players in motion supporting the ball carrier and of course the odd variation to the one out hit up. At present we are playing a style of football that they used on a very wet field back when they had leather balls.Tuck it under the arm, head down and trundle straight.
I am still willing to give Taylor 18months, but if by than we are still playing like we are it will be duck season for Taylor
I am still willing to give Taylor 18months, but if by than we are still playing like we are it will be duck season for Taylor
