The Tim Sheens Saga

[GNR4LIFE]

We've been over this 1000 times there is not a coach out there available or unavailable that could replace Sheens without sacking half the team and trying to build the team from ground zero again & that of course will take up to 5 years to complete. It was a Benji Marshall brain explosion that we didn't make the grand final last year, nothing to do with Tim Sheens.

On last year's effort and current form, we have absolutely nothing to complain about.

Some would disagree and say Marshall's brain explosion had a lot to do with Sheens. He's coached him for almost 10 yrs and still hasn't coached those mistakes out of his game and it couldn't have happened at a more crucial time. It even cost us another game this yr against Souths.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

We've been over this 1000 times there is not a coach out there available or unavailable that could replace Sheens without sacking half the team and trying to build the team from ground zero again & that of course will take up to 5 years to complete. It was a Benji Marshall brain explosion that we didn't make the grand final last year, nothing to do with Tim Sheens.

On last year's effort and current form, we have absolutely nothing to complain about.

Some would disagree and say Marshall's brain explosion had a lot to do with Sheens. He's coached him for almost 10 yrs and still hasn't coached those mistakes out of his game and it couldn't have happened at a more crucial time. It even cost us another game this yr against Souths.

Sheens could tell Benji until he is blue in the face not to do some of the impulsive (and often stupid) things that he does. But in the heat of the moment it is up to Benji himself to decide what is the right option….nothing to do with Sheens IMO.

 

[innsaneink]

**We've been over this 1000 times there is not a coach out there available or unavailable that could replace Sheens without sacking half the team and trying to build the team from ground zero again & that of course will take up to 5 years to complete.** It was a Benji Marshall brain explosion that we didn't make the grand final last year, nothing to do with Tim Sheens.

On last year's effort and current form, we have absolutely nothing to complain about.

Well thats just garbage and there is **nothing** to suggest a mass walkout would occur should Sheens go.

 

[georgebeema]

When has sheens been criticized ? Let's have a look at this year for example.
- gave away two props in a package deal to sharks which left us weakened up front
- played and persisted with groat even though was obvious he was not up to NRL standard
- played with two backs on bench and usually would play just one of them ( ie meaney)
- as a result our pack got dominated and we lost consecutive matches

The criticism came out which was justified. Then we bought cashmere, and groat got injured. Our pack started dominating and we started winning.

I have stated in a previous thread, sheens IMO is the best coach in the NRL for tactics but the worst for player selection. If we don't have injuries nobody can beat us.

As for the critics, it was totally justified at the time
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[tig_prmz]

5 straight losses can turn into 7 straight wins….it can reverse just as quick.

We always have to hit rock bottom in a season to get going...thats a concern.

My opinion hasnt changed, Ive never called for a sacking, its unrealistic and too costly - just a change.

THAT THAT THAT.. a coach's job is to train the athletes into better players and make em play together as a team.

for 6-7 years, he's had this almost the same squad with probably the same spine (apart from the 7, which HE keeps changing), still came up with no premiership. im a greedy supporter, i dont give a rat's ass about what he is doing outside of COACHING.

i see the squad and on paper, for the last 4 years at least, i've seen a premiership winning team. and after 8 years, if he still can't bring out the "best" in benji, robbie and lawrence consistently then i want him moved. these players don't come very often and i wanna see them play at their best.

 

[900large]

I love reading these sack sheens threads, because he just proves those doubters wrong, and of all the threads this issue polarises the most.
Personally i think sheens' job is to coach a winning team, develop juniors cut dead wood and bring in better players. Currently thats exactly what he is doing.
Why he should go while he is succeeding eludes me it makes no sense. If he left tomorrow, he would be coaching another team very soon, (he would do wonders with the roosters or canberra, for example) which could be very bad for us. I'm all for Sheens retiring as long as he doesn't coach anyone else.
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[tig_prmz]

I love reading these sack sheens threads, because he just proves those doubters wrong, and of all the threads this issue polarises the most.
Personally i think sheens' job is to coach a **winning** team, develop juniors cut dead wood and bring in better players. Currently thats exactly what he is doing.
Why he should go while he is succeeding eludes me it makes no sense. If he left tomorrow, he would be coaching another team very soon, (he would do wonders with the roosters or canberra, for example) which could be very bad for us. I'm all for Sheens retiring as long as he doesn't coach anyone else.
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look at the past records, and dont give me rubbish about winning the last 7 or top 4 in 2 years. if u wanna look, look from 2003.

 

[redemption]

I love reading these sack sheens threads, because he just proves those doubters wrong, and of all the threads this issue polarises the most.
Personally i think sheens' job is to coach a **winning** team, develop juniors cut dead wood and bring in better players. Currently thats exactly what he is doing.
Why he should go while he is succeeding eludes me it makes no sense. If he left tomorrow, he would be coaching another team very soon, (he would do wonders with the roosters or canberra, for example) which could be very bad for us. I'm all for Sheens retiring as long as he doesn't coach anyone else.
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look at the past records, and dont give me rubbish about winning the last 7 or top 4 in 2 years. if u wanna look, look from 2003.

Grow the F up!!!

You've watched the game for all of 7 years in total!

The sum total of your experience is nil - the sum total of your knowledge about the structures and vagaries of the game and the art of coaching at the professional level is less than nil!!

All you're preaching (along with the others) is change for changes sake!!!

That never gets you far in life junior - so stop spreading your vacuous, ignorant & juvenile crap because all you want is your team to win so you can be the big man at school with your GPS mates in boaters, ties and blazers!!

Most of us want to see enduring success - and if we get top 4 again this year - that is what Tim has delivered us for three straight years!!!

Try watching your team lose two successive GFs before being an antagonist for change at a well-run club!!

 

[Knuckles]

My issue is the sack/change Sheens lobby never put up a credible alternative.

 

[innsaneink]

Whats credible to one is never credible to another on here.
It doesnt matter who's suggested….its never acceptable.
Previously only Bellamy & Bennett were worthy as replacing ....now Bennett is out of favour as a worthy replacement...only Bellamy and God remain, the pro sheensers opinions change as frequently as the weather.

Bennetts problems show you need the cattle to get results, no matter how good a coach you are....sometimes that takes a new coach time.....some here put forward an imaginary argument a mass walkout would occur should Sheens be relieved of his duties...rubbish.

Our key players are that good I believe they can adapt, evolve and grow as players under new ideas...I believe the potential is still somewhat untapped and I always believe a coach has a shelf life

The seasons half over.

 

[hellman]

I have no problem with getting a different coach. I just don't want a complete muppet like Stuart.

Sheens does have to go at some point however change for change's sake is pretty stupid. Sheens has been real good for us and we have performed really well as well. To me there is no need for a change but when it happens I'd like to see someone like Gentle get the job. Basically someone who is a proven coach (not necessarily first grade), a decent people person and who represents us well in front of the media.

 

[Joel Helmes]

My perspective on it is this.

Last year after we had a shaky start to the year and there was talk of Tim moving to Penrith I felt that perhaps that was a good idea. The Penrith talk coincided with Tim's 10 years here and even he would admit that's a long time for a coach in one place.

It seemed to me that we needed some new ideas.

However as others have said just when the team looks shaky and you start thinking perhaps it's time for a change he seems to bring us together and gets on the tracks again and really that's only something you can do when you have experience.

I think any calls for Tim's departure at this point are ridiculous given how well the team is going, hey if he can keep getting the results then why would we need to make a change?

 

[Stripes96]

My perspective on it is this.

Last year after we had a shaky start to the year and there was talk of Tim moving to Penrith I felt that perhaps that was a good idea. The Penrith talk coincided with Tim's 10 years here and even he would admit that's a long time for a coach in one place.

It seemed to me that we needed some new ideas.

However as others have said just when the team looks shaky and you start thinking perhaps it's time for a change he seems to bring us together and gets on the tracks again and really that's only something you can do when you have experience.

I think any calls for Tim's departure at this point are ridiculous given how well the team is going, hey if he can keep getting the results then why would we need to make a change?

My thoughts exactly. Why are people calling for Sheens to be sacked or "a change", when we are seven in a row, are the ONLY team to make the top four in the past two years, and are in the top four now? Who cares about 2006-09? We are winning and winning well now. Are we going to sack him based on how we went three years ago?

Don't fix something that isn't broken…
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[alexaki]

Look at Bennett, look at his stupid press conferences after a loss, look at what a fool he makes himself out to be… Never rated Bennett and Newcastle are showing what a fraud he has been all these years..now with sheens if it ain't broke don't fix it.. Whilst he had the respect of the players he can stay as long as he wants!
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[Tigersmurf]

So is the strength of a coach based purely on how many premierships they have won - maybe it is. But maybe it has more to do with building a club and giving the juniors a pathway to make first grade. When will someone present the stats as to how many juniors we have brought into first grade since 2003?

What about the fact that in 2003 we had spent all our money! I have never been the coaches biggest fan but he has built us a club both on and off the field. There are lots of clubs who have rosters that should win the comp but don't manage to.

His selections can be peculiar but he is developing the talent we need to be a consistent club in a very even competition.

 

[innsaneink]

My thoughts exactly. Why are people calling for Sheens to be sacked or "a change", when we are seven in a row, are the ONLY team to make the top four in the past two years, and are in the top four now? Who cares about 2006-09? We are winning and winning well now. Are we going to sack him based on how we went three years ago?
>
Don't fix something that isn't broken…

My opinion was formed from 07 to 09...and while it lessened during the last two years, that period (06-09) while now gone, was quite a drought.
So opinions do change, but according to some thats a sign of weakness, or chopping/changing, not staying ''true''...whatever the hell that means.
The landscape changes, the screnarios change, the footy changes, the players change, the opposition change...its always changing and evolving...yet some look at others who see change as an opportunity as being somehow unloyal, not a true supporter. Some very smug attitudes suddenly surface.
Its a load of crap.

Fact is it was broken, has been broken several times only to be fixed....yet its made out like its always been OK.

 

[Knuckles]

Can't recall any of the players grizzling about him since he's been here …. Except Dane Laurie that is.

It's nothing to do with loyalty etc for me ... It's more the devil you know.
I agree the mass walk out theory is rubbish but you only need to get one or two senior noses out of the joint and things can fall apart real quick.

 

[tig_prmz]

Grow the F up!!!
>
You've watched the game for all of 7 years in total!

my age has no impact on my opinions. 7 years.. never knew that's not a long enough time and my opinions are also influence by what i read on here.

The sum total of your experience is nil - the sum total of your knowledge about the structures and vagaries of the game and the art of coaching at the professional level is less than nil!!

never knew you were my footy teacher

All you're preaching (along with the others) is change for changes sake!!!

uh no, here have a read of this thread and READ why im asking for changes. i cbf repeating again and again.
http://www.weststigersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12765&time=1339379330

That never gets you far in life junior - so stop spreading your vacuous, ignorant & juvenile crap because **all you want is your team to win** so you can be the big man at school with your GPS mates in boaters, ties and blazers!!

:laughing: this is my favourite part, SOMEONE PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND IF THEY DON'T WANT THEIR TEAM TO WIN.
PS i go uni now. also, im not sure what vacuous means and again i cbf looking that up. also who are my GPS mates? global positioning system mates? 😕

**Most of us want to see enduring success** - and if we get top 4 again this year - that is what Tim has delivered us for three straight years!!!

glad you cleared that up and as i said, im a selfish supporter, every week i watch my team, i want them to win and to hit bottom low EVERY YEAR then starting to find form is something i consider mediocre and frustrating, and it's the COACH'S job to make sure they turn up with the attitude and work ethic to try 100% in every game.

Try watching your team lose two successive GFs before being an antagonist for change at a well-run club!!

yee.. probs referring to magpies or balmain. well-run ? not so sure about that, im not the one sitting inside boardroom, i just look from the outside and make opinions from there. if you do sit inside the boardroom, can you please tell me if they wear suits? if they do, damn it must be well run !
PS i have never made opinions regarding the operation of the club, im only looking at the coach.

 

[tig_prmz]

Fact is it was broken, has been broken several times only to be fixed….yet its made out like its always been OK.

i dont get 100% what you're saying there, but i find that "if it aint broken dont fix it" as an absolute garbage. just coz you're "happy" (happiness is relative in this case) with what's happening doesn't mean it cannot be improved.

true story: i used to get 50% in my chem tests in yr 11, ofc i didnt like it so i started working harder, i got to 70% and everyone including me was happy. then i stopped working for a while and stayed on 70%. then during final yr 12 exams, i knew there was a lot of room for improvement and ended up getting band6 in chem (<90+). imagine if i stopped at 70%

 

[tiger4ever]

Look at Bennett, look at his stupid press conferences after a loss, look at what a fool he makes himself out to be… Never rated Bennett and Newcastle are showing what a fraud he has been all these years..now with sheens if it ain't broke don't fix it.. Whilst he had the respect of the players he can stay as long as he wants!
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Agree with that 100%…Bennett will sack players at seasons end and raid hes old teams like he usually does.