Tigers’ carefree attitude with the ball is killing them

[Masterton]

WHETHER the Wests Tigers have it in them to see what coach Jason Taylor really meant is now the thing.

Their future might depend on it, though.

There are mixed messages coming out of Camp Tiger right now.

After their bright start to the season Taylor and his Tigers were applauded for their approach.

Assistant coach Craig Sandercock arrived in town, so the narrative went, and one of his first decisions as the incoming attacking coach was to ask his chief playmakers how they wanted to play their football.

Beautiful.

Everybody knew the potential of James Tedesco, Luke Brooks and Mitchell Moses, guided by the experienced hand of Robbie Farah, and given the chance to do things their way bright days were tipped.

Many lauded Taylor for his ego strength. Not every coach has the ability to put his ego in his back pocket and let the playmakers shape their attack.

That all said, the Tigers went on and beat the Warriors 34-26 in round one and Manly 36-22 the following week.

Plenty of points. Plenty of plaudits.

Taylor has now squashed that after Sunday’s loss to Newcastle.

“That’s all been reported fairly inaccurately,” he said.

Suddenly, he sounded like the Grinch.

Taylor sat at the Tigers’ press conference and seemed to be in no mood for cheap excuses after yet another awful afternoon.

The Tigers had just lost their fourth straight after their early good start and all that easy applause was long gone.

It was not reported inaccurately, though.

Well before the season, on February 18, Taylor told The Australian: “I make no excuses for the fact that we started really structured last year but the plan was to always loosen that once the boys understood what their roles were and once we got to know them as players.

“There’s a lot of talent there and it’s important to get it to a point where everybody feels that they can play a part.”

At the same time Farah said of Sandercock: “He’s introduced a lot of stuff back into our structure that we enjoy and we think works best for us individually.”

James Tedesco said similar on Fox Sports. Mitchell Moses has also been quoted pushing the same message.

So what is Taylor’s problem?

The same as it is for every coach.

Losses.

While it worked for the first fortnight the Tigers’ carefree attitude with the ball is now killing them. They are showing you really can have too much of a good thing.

The Tigers are learning the downside of their free and easy style, if through their results and not their actions.

With every action in the NRL there is a cost. Somewhere, somebody is accountable.

Soon, the playmakers are going to need to take a look at the men playing inside them and ask themselves whether they want to keep putting them through it.

The pressure his playmakers are putting on their middle men is tremendous.

They seem to be forgetting that when they play their razzle dazzle football and it ends prematurely, because a ball is passed over the sideline or a chip kick that goes carelessly astray, that while they go back to defending on their edges and getting their energy back for the next attacking set the middle men are left to do the heavy lifting.

The forwards are paying for their lack of discipline. Taylor watched them all Sunday afternoon try to make up for the sins of their teammates and finally had enough.

So when he was asked about their freestyle attack he was quick to shut it down and put the emphasis on where it belonged.

“At the moment we don’t make strong decisions,” he said.

“We make soft decisions which put the whole team under pressure.

“I just want us to be tougher. We need to be tougher. That’s the simplest way of putting it.

“We need to train tougher. We need to be harder on each other at training and we need to be tougher on the field.”

You know what that says.

It says the coach is back in control.
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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/footy-form/tigers-carefree-attitude-with-the-ball-is-killing-them-writes-paul-kent/news-story/7a077a401a3ee36485e8615d020b3e7b

 

[Eddie]

I was a supporter of a a more attacking style of play.

However after 4 loss on the trots its clear the young halves have got the balance wrong.

The key players at hooker and in the halves, plus the leadership in the team need to take a look at themselves.

I said its all about winning and 4 losses mean changes are needed. To personal and to the style to an extent.

Taylor deserves to give them a whack because they have lost control of games. They have taken their licence to play more football and abused it really.

The first 2 games we were making really strong carries and getting over the advantage line. We were laying a platform. The backs were getting the ball off the back of good play the balls. The hype obviously went to their head and the last month we have not been prepared to do the hard yards first.

We were pretty brave at times yesterday to hang in there. Same as against parra, we are justing putting ourselves under too much pressure. Its not like were not trying or dogging it.

However its a fine line, if Taylor bags the players too often in public the Players there will only be 1 winner. They will stop putting in, and his messages will get lost.

The players do need to look at themselves in this instance.

 

[sideline_eye]

It's quite simple really. In the NRL you have to make metres up the middle. If your organisers then throw that work away on outrageous plays, as the article says, the forwards have to do it all again and eventually they can't keep doing it. Respect possession and complete your sets, then when the opposition is on the back foot, start attacking in a structured and clinical way, not by kicking the ball over the winger's head into touch on early tackles.

 

[innsaneink]

It's quite simple really. In the NRL you have to make metres up the middle. If your organisers then throw that work away on outrageous plays, as the article says, the forwards have to do it all again and eventually they can't keep doing it. Respect possession and complete your sets, then when the opposition is on the back foot, start attacking in a structured and clinical way, not by kicking the ball over the winger's head into touch on early tackles.

Correct.
But I think though theyre scared of seven tackle sets, theyre not confident in their defence and being able hold a team down their end once the forwards have laid that platform, hence trying to score off most plays, not working for repeat sets and to create pressure.

We were doing better last year at this stage

 

[Geo]

A Daily Telecrap article that is bang on…Must have been written by Kent I'm guessing...

Ive read a lot on here and Social Media how Taylor has lost the dressing room..players wont play for him blaaaaah...

Where is the pride in your own performances as a playing group...Where is the PRIDE in pulling on a Wests Tigers jersey and giving it your all for the Club and the fans...

Where is this I love playing with my mates..nah we would rather see the Coach gone....pathetic. Pffft...

 

[happy_tiger]

I'm starting to wonder if Taylor gave them 6 weeks to prove that their way was right

 

[Pawsandclaws]

It's quite simple really. In the NRL you have to make metres up the middle. If your organisers then throw that work away on outrageous plays, as the article says, the forwards have to do it all again and eventually they can't keep doing it. Respect possession and complete your sets, then when the opposition is on the back foot, start attacking in a structured and clinical way, not by kicking the ball over the winger's head into touch on early tackles.

Correct.
But I think though theyre scared of seven tackle sets, theyre not confident in their defence and being able hold a team down their end once the forwards have laid that platform, hence trying to score off most plays, not working for repeat sets and to create pressure.

We were doing better last year at this stage

So simple really isn't it ink. Why don't you get out there and demonstrate how it is done! Pffff.

 

[stevetiger]

We need to play a more attacking style compared to the Taylor ball of last season. That style of play loses games more often than it wins games. You need to score points and you need the opposition to work when we have the ball. The problem is that our halves have to make good decisions with the ball, the whole team need to be disciplined and the execution needs to improve significantly. That hasn't been occurring but it's been 90% Brooks with the poor decisions and mistakes. Moses is nowhere near the same level as Brooks. Against Newcastle for instance there were 3 or 4 chances that Brooks had to set-up a try with a good play but he couldn't execute. A top line halfback makes those plays. The article tries to blame some carefree attitude but that is really simplifying the issue.

Taylor is right into this as well. We look poorly coached. The same thing happened last year and Taylor has to shoulder a bunch of the blame.

Also I don't think that there is any conspiracy theory with regards to the players deliberately losing to get rid of the coach or anything like that. Maybe some of the players aren't up to it. Maybe they need time in State cup.

Something has to give but the coach should be on notice and the idea that Brooks and Moses are our future needs to be reassessed. I'm not even stating that we need to get rid of one or both of them but a lot of work is required on these two.

 

[happy_tiger]

We need to play a more attacking style compared to the Taylor ball of last season. That style of play loses games more often than it wins games. You need to score points and you need the opposition to work when we have the ball. The problem is that our halves have to make good decisions with the ball, the whole team need to be disciplined and the execution needs to improve significantly. That hasn't been occurring but it's been 90% Brooks with the poor decisions and mistakes. Moses is nowhere near the same level as Brooks. Against Newcastle for instance there were 3 or 4 chances that Brooks had to set-up a try with a good play but he couldn't execute. A top line halfback makes those plays. The article tries to blame some carefree attitude but that is really simplifying the issue.

Taylor is right into this as well. We look poorly coached. The same thing happened last year and Taylor has to shoulder a bunch of the blame.

Also I don't think that there is any conspiracy theory with regards to the players deliberately losing to get rid of the coach or anything like that. Maybe some of the players aren't up to it. Maybe they need time in State cup.

Something has to give but the coach should be on notice and the idea that Brooks and Moses are our future needs to be reassessed. I'm not even stating that we need to get rid of one or both of them but a lot of work is required on these two.

By what your saying , you are blaming Taylor for teaching the players to throw no look passes , not hitting that targets as far as passes go , low completion rates , arm grabs , stupid penalties and salary cap issues

I have one thing that Taylor needs to look at

Loyalty , throw it out the window with the dirty bath water and see where that takes us

If they aren't performing , their is NSW Cup , their is RMC , their is the door , don't let it hit you on the way out

 

[dimitri]

The Tigers have scored the same amount of tries as both the Sharks and Knights and got beaten. Also conceded the only try against the Eels and got beaten. The Titans was the only game we were out of its because of the 5 day debacle and the midnight kick-off.

It ain't the defense that is the issue considering.

The thing that is killing us is the lop sided penalty counts against us. Gifting opposition teams an easy escape route from their end, which provides them with good field position and enables them to put us under pressure down our end.

The other thing is poor options on 4th and 5th tackles. Running the ball, flick passes, cross-field kicks etc.

Take the tackle and/or kick the damn ball into the corners and put them under pressure to get out from their end.

Seems like each individual who gets the ball on the 4th or 5th play is trying to be the hero.

Taylor is right. Toughen up. Play smart. Wait for opportunities.

 

[innsaneink]

It's quite simple really. In the NRL you have to make metres up the middle. If your organisers then throw that work away on outrageous plays, as the article says, the forwards have to do it all again and eventually they can't keep doing it. Respect possession and complete your sets, then when the opposition is on the back foot, start attacking in a structured and clinical way, not by kicking the ball over the winger's head into touch on early tackles.

Correct.
But I think though theyre scared of seven tackle sets, theyre not confident in their defence and being able hold a team down their end once the forwards have laid that platform, hence trying to score off most plays, not working for repeat sets and to create pressure.

We were doing better last year at this stage

So simple really isn't it ink. Why don't you get out there and demonstrate how it is done! Pffff.

LOL
I hit a nerve I see.
:roll

 

[stevetiger]

The Tigers have scored the same amount of tries as both the Sharks and Knights and got beaten. Also conceded the only try against the Eels and got beaten. The Titans was the only game we were out of its because of the 5 day debacle and the midnight kick-off.

It ain't the defense that is the issue considering.

The thing that is killing us is the lop sided penalty counts against us. Gifting opposition teams an easy escape route from their end, which provides them with good field position and enables them to put us under pressure down our end.

The other thing is poor options on 4th and 5th tackles. Running the ball, flick passes, cross-field kicks etc.

Take the tackle and/or kick the damn ball into the corners and put them under pressure to get out from their end.

Seems like each individual who gets the ball on the 4th or 5th play is trying to be the hero.

Taylor is right. Toughen up. Play smart. Wait for opportunities.

Lots of good points here.

 

[stevetiger]

We need to play a more attacking style compared to the Taylor ball of last season. That style of play loses games more often than it wins games. You need to score points and you need the opposition to work when we have the ball. The problem is that our halves have to make good decisions with the ball, the whole team need to be disciplined and the execution needs to improve significantly. That hasn't been occurring but it's been 90% Brooks with the poor decisions and mistakes. Moses is nowhere near the same level as Brooks. Against Newcastle for instance there were 3 or 4 chances that Brooks had to set-up a try with a good play but he couldn't execute. A top line halfback makes those plays. The article tries to blame some carefree attitude but that is really simplifying the issue.

Taylor is right into this as well. We look poorly coached. The same thing happened last year and Taylor has to shoulder a bunch of the blame.

Also I don't think that there is any conspiracy theory with regards to the players deliberately losing to get rid of the coach or anything like that. Maybe some of the players aren't up to it. Maybe they need time in State cup.

Something has to give but the coach should be on notice and the idea that Brooks and Moses are our future needs to be reassessed. I'm not even stating that we need to get rid of one or both of them but a lot of work is required on these two.

By what your saying , you are blaming Taylor for teaching the players to throw no look passes , not hitting that targets as far as passes go , low completion rates , arm grabs , stupid penalties and salary cap issues

I have one thing that Taylor needs to look at

Loyalty , throw it out the window with the dirty bath water and see where that takes us

If they aren't performing , their is NSW Cup , their is RMC , their is the door , don't let it hit you on the way out

The coach has to take some responsibility. He just has too. Your problem is that he isn't to blame for anything but he is. It's his job to get the best out of the players that he has at his disposal and he isn't doing that.

I don't think that this is all doom and gloom. Taylor though needs to do something to try and turn our season around.

Also - you should re-read what I posted. I'm stating that there are a bunch of issues. I really think if Brooks was playing anywhere near to his current pay rate we score at least another 2 tries against Newcastle. Brooks is a big concern for the team at the moment.

 

[hobbo]

We need to play a more attacking style compared to the Taylor ball of last season. That style of play loses games more often than it wins games. You need to score points and you need the opposition to work when we have the ball. The problem is that our halves have to make good decisions with the ball, the whole team need to be disciplined and the execution needs to improve significantly. That hasn't been occurring but it's been 90% Brooks with the poor decisions and mistakes. Moses is nowhere near the same level as Brooks. Against Newcastle for instance there were 3 or 4 chances that Brooks had to set-up a try with a good play but he couldn't execute. A top line halfback makes those plays. The article tries to blame some carefree attitude but that is really simplifying the issue.

Taylor is right into this as well. We look poorly coached. The same thing happened last year and Taylor has to shoulder a bunch of the blame.

Also I don't think that there is any conspiracy theory with regards to the players deliberately losing to get rid of the coach or anything like that. Maybe some of the players aren't up to it. Maybe they need time in State cup.

Something has to give but the coach should be on notice and the idea that Brooks and Moses are our future needs to be reassessed. I'm not even stating that we need to get rid of one or both of them but a lot of work is required on these two.

By what your saying , you are blaming Taylor for teaching the players to throw no look passes , not hitting that targets as far as passes go , low completion rates , arm grabs , stupid penalties and salary cap issues

I have one thing that Taylor needs to look at

Loyalty , throw it out the window with the dirty bath water and see where that takes us

If they aren't performing , their is NSW Cup , their is RMC , their is the door , don't let it hit you on the way out

C'mon happy you should know better by know , it's not about winning or losing , it's about playing with your mates …even Benji said so !
:roll

 

[jirskyr]

I was a supporter of a a more attacking style of play.

However after 4 loss on the trots its clear the young halves have got the balance wrong.

The key players at hooker and in the halves, plus the leadership in the team need to take a look at themselves.

I said its all about winning and 4 losses mean changes are needed. To personal and to the style to an extent.

I think Eddie it's less about an attacking-style or focus, and more about who makes the plan for how we attack.

My take-home message from 2015 was that we had a young side, especially the spine, and that the coach was trying to drill into them the basic framework of disciplined and smart footy. The great irony is that some fans who continually talk about "Taylorball" take the big wins from 2015 as evidence of how we should "really" play.

In other words, every dull and boring match was apparently the fault of the coach and his dull and boring gameplan, and every big win was because those young footballers were finally able to spread their wings.

It totally ignores the fact that the wins were few and far between, spread across the season. We only strung together consecutive wins twice and never more than 2 in a row. That 34-6 demolition of Souths, the premiers, in Rd 14 was preceded by 4 straight losses and followed by 5 more straight losses.

One cannot seriously argue that the coach instills "Taylorball" as the gameplan for 3/4 weeks, but then lets them have a week of winning "Brosesball".

The reality as Eddie notes is that these are kids, inexperienced and rash. Brosesball can beat any team by 40 if the conditions are just right, or lose to the bottom side 3 times in 2 years. Over time it is shown that Brosesball does not produce enough wins to trouble the Top 8.

So yeah 5 hitups and a bomb sucks, but it's something to fall back on when your team is under pressure. At the moment our side refuses to play smart footy when the chips are down. Those big wins Rd 1 and 2 are just sugar-coating the fact that even though many of the attacking plays came off, many did not and allowed the oppositions to run on a lot of points in quick time.

But continually chancing your hand in attack is like betting on underdogs - sure you'll jag a few big wins, but over time it is a losing strategy (just ask the bookies).

Brooks 21 and has played 50 games. Moses is also 21 and has clocked 40\. They are not Darren Lockyer or Andrew Johns and should not be calling the shots. Anyone who thinks that the coach should let these boys play more their natural style is kidding themselves, because their natural style is to dominate junior defences. It all becomes so much harder playing against seasoned men in first grade.

But the other side of the problem is that Broses are not inexperienced enough for us to just shrug this off. They are approaching Sheensie's fabled "50 game" club, where boys become men, or where wunderkinds become reliable footballers. They both cannot be fully trusted to formulate game plans, but also not free from criticism for taking bad options.

Broncos and Cowboys are the blueprint for modern successful sides. Sure they have plenty of talent, but it's not as if a single footballer wins the match each week. What they instead do is fall back on smart footballing options in tight games.

Broncos have immaculate defence and a decent forwards platform, with low errors. Their great strength is the running game of their halves, because they are not always putting in razzle dazzle kicks or cut-out passes. Running games are high-percentage, so Hunt+Milford can afford to take as many shots as they like without too much consequence. They are not really destroying any sides (winning margins of 13, 15, 1, 8 until they got 26 on Saints), but they never lose touch with any side either. Anthony Milford is not a better attacking weapon than James Tedesco, except that his team mates regularly put him in the attacking zone with smart footy.

Cowboys on the other hand have tremendous meterage followed by very smart end-play (crunch) options. You can hardly buy the forward pack they have, and although JT is not a physical threat any more, he is even more wily in his later years. They have crushed a few lowly teams at home, but actually have not dominated the rest of their opposition. The difference is that when a game becomes tough, Cowboys fall back on a very smart and simple game plan - run as hard as possible to get the halves into a position where they can take dependable attacking options.

I watched last weekend with such admiration, with the game in the balance against Penrith, how they increased their intensity just like in the Grand Final over the last 10 minutes, and pushed the Panthers back and back. Nobody was making errors, but Cowboys were finding themselves 20 m out and looking for repeat sets, whereas Panthers were taking field goal shots from 40 m. In the end, Cowboys didn't even take the FG until their 3rd or 4th set in the Penrith zone - they did not panic and snap at the first opportunity… they ended up not even giving JT a shot at all and Coote slotted the winner. After this, with Penrith deflated, they still continued to run hard - O'Neill steams onto a cut out and puts Feldt over to seal the game.

Ranting aside, Tigers do none of this. They do not build pressure well, they do not think about footy as an 80 minute game. We don't need to score every 2 or 3 sets, we need to keep the opposition at their end as much as possible. I'm even a fan of this new approach to take the 6th tackle on the opponent's line, rather than risk a 7-tackle restart from 20 m. Broses need to work on their tactical kicking game and everyone needs to focus more on ball control, because we turn over way too much ball and in 2016 that murders you in the last quarter with reduced interchange. We tried hard at the end against Newcastle, but we were too tired and this itself led to more errors (Halatau's was a tragedy).

I know I'm comparing Broses to JT or Milford, but Milford himself is only 21 and 76 games into his career. It's about smart football, high-percentage football. I don't care what it is, if it's last tackle bombs or kicking to the corners, so long as it puts us on the advantage more often than not. We don't need to be ahead by 20 in the first 20, which seems to be some sort of target for our side.

 

[Mac_tiger]

Great post jirskyr. Rugby League is a tough but simple game - metres up the middle, quick play the ball and let your halves run the ball when the defence is on the back foot. This is Taylors message.

 

[stevetiger]

Great post jirskyr. Rugby League is a tough but simple game - metres up the middle, quick play the ball and let your halves run the ball when the defence is on the back foot. This is Taylors message.

Hi Jason. Do you think that maybe you could have chosen a better bench this week.

 

[vlad]

I think we have too many playmakers . They each get a go in the set of six & each are thinking "this is our chance to shine" .
That's fine in u20s where the scores are 40-38 but NRL games aren't like that very often .

Watching them play it's hard to see who is the on field general who is calling the shots . Our best performance of the year was the first half vs the Warriors when Brooks & Farah weren't there .

If we could find a steady half or 5/8 who kicks goals at 90% that might be the way to go . A Hodkinson or Maloney type player . I know Prince was a little more than a steady player but he knew when to kick to the corners .

 

[gallagher]

I think we have too many playmakers . They each get a go in the set of six & each are thinking "this is our chance to shine" .
That's fine in u20s where the scores are 40-38 but NRL games aren't like that very often .

Watching them play it's hard to see who is the on field general who is calling the shots . Our best performance of the year was the first half vs the Warriors when Brooks & Farah weren't there .

If we could find a steady half or 5/8 who kicks goals at 90% that might be the way to go . A Hodkinson or Maloney type player . I know Prince was a little more than a steady player but he knew when to kick to the corners .

Good points
I'm starting to think we are probably better off re-signing Moses and letting Brooks go and replace him with a seasoned half like you've suggested. Farah needs to leave aswell.

 

[Russell]

Excellent post jirskyr - makes total sense, without the emotion, Justa whole hard look at the facts. Many on here should take note of your analysis and suggestions.

I know I have - good read, good on you. Let's hope some of this rubs off on those who need it to rub off on.