Viking Warrior
Well-known member
Hopefully our new Juniors and pathway systems will give us a good foundation and blokes that have pride in the jersey. Glad we are going down that path rather then mercenaries and hasbeens
Titans capitulation...opposed to WTs ...
- Thread starter TrueTiger
- Start date
You just see it how you want to see it...
Would you argue that Liddle or Simpkin are the player that Robbie was in his last year?
- Even now, 3 years later.... Don't worry, I know the answer.
We replaced Robbie With Harry in 20... Very good replacement.
But neither have been replaced until next year now...
Ryan Matterson played 24 Games in 2019, None in 2020 - Just because he left, There was no replacement for him - Or time for forward planning
Aloiai played almost full seasons in 19-20... Then left under contract - no replacement or time for planning...
Our squad has been getting progressively worse over the years of Madges tenure, Weather we see it, admit it or not.
He's also been cap strung until this year (Even though we're still paying Mbye) - I see no coincidence in the first year he's had decent money to spend - He's signed 2 (Very) decent players.
Some say there's been no improvement
Kelma Tuilagi was a reserve grader in Q cup - And now signed to Manly on a substantial contract.
Luchi came here as a 300k Bench player has now turned into a player someone is willing to pay 700k for, And constant talk of the media.
Luke Garner was plying ressies at his 3rd club with us - Now signed by the Premiers.
Same above for Matt Eisenhuth - Someone called him a starting prop at the premiers the other day... He didn't learn that there.
Matterson went from off the Bench at the Chooks to 18th man in Origin - Then regressed for 2 years in a "Successful team" Only now is showing his Tigers form
Not seeing improvement, And choosing not to see it - Are too very different things!!
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trentrunciman
Well-known member
💯
Coming on 11 years for us, how is it even possible?
C
Cobarcats
Guest
No worries CFK.
He soon will be copping it...Punt him 🤣
magpies forever
Well-known member
Isnt it also an expectation of the first grade NRL coach to have an awareness of the reserve grade State Cup side and its players strengths and weaknesses for possible use throughout the season to cover injuries, suspensions and even in an alternate universe SOO and Kangaroo call up?
Yes, the lower down competition squads are coached by a different coach and have differing attack ad defence assistants but:
- the main NRL squad has 30 spots in it, so quite a few of that squad would be playing in the reserve comp on a regular basis so the NRL coach would need to be aware of their work and progress and ability to slot into the main 17 as needed.
- the other reserve grade squad members would be those that have showed most promise from the clubs competitions and/or been brought in on lower grade contracts from elsewhere to fill gaps. Yes, they would primarily be of concern, and under the care of the reserve grade coach, but they too must have some visibility to the NRL coach even solely as back up tot he main 30 when needed for opportunity and possible promotion.
- for example when these reserve grade players contracts are up for renewal does the main NRL coach have a consultation role in this or is it solely the reserve grade coach? I'd have thought both input would be required, as the main reserve grade coach deals with them in most circumstances but surely the NRL coach should have input if he is to see progression or continued gap filling needed by that particular player.
I think our team last year beating Penrith last year 26-6 in same equivalent game was fantastic compared to dogs losing last night 30-18 considering all dogs points a direct result of two expensive recruits Burton and Adds Carr
Last year we faced a stronger Penrith team as they had Burton playing for them! .Cudos to our team Last year . Dont think this years team as good
Going backwards
Last year we faced a stronger Penrith team as they had Burton playing for them! .Cudos to our team Last year . Dont think this years team as good
Going backwards
twentyforty
Well-known member
You have to work on it. These things don’t happen by chance. I wonder if sacking the coach again will make the players improve 🤔
innsaneink
Well-known member
I've been waiting for this comparison... Knew it was coming
ElleryHanley
Well-known member
Titans have been terrible and their coach has been very poor IMO.
They looked poor last two years also, but caught fire for about six weeks at the end of 21 and made it.
It is that simple...making the finals buys people time. Holbrook probably won't be fired until the end of 2023 when Fifita bolts and their 27th attempt at finding a spine combination fails.
They looked poor last two years also, but caught fire for about six weeks at the end of 21 and made it.
It is that simple...making the finals buys people time. Holbrook probably won't be fired until the end of 2023 when Fifita bolts and their 27th attempt at finding a spine combination fails.
pawsandclaws1
Well-known member
So how do you explain what we've read about WTs' overtures to Ciraldo?
Mighty_Tiger
Well-known member
People see things differently.
He isn’t cap strung this year we aren’t spending the full amount so thats a myth. We tried to signed JAC, LM and others for this year and failed. We had money to spend but those players didn’t want to come.
Explain how Madge with the Cleary roster actually performed better than he is with 100% of players he has signed ?
Release of players is a cop out.
For every player we released early from their contract that was our decision to release them instead players got what they wanted each time. Things got so bad that both players didn’t want to play under Madge & we allowed them to run. Madge also allowed the situation to get to that point. It didn’t happen overnight, there was build up before it exploded. Josh, Matto and Momo all didn’t want to be here but all good enough for top 8 teams everyday of the week.
Madge job is to deal with multiple personalities not just yes people and get the team to gel and play together. He struggles big time with players who don’t agree with him. It happened at Souths and here. Not many coaches in the NRL have the same issues of players leaving that be does.
As to development. Kelma came from the Storm and was chucked into the deep end this year because we had no one to cover back row and has been found out bigtime. He is not even close to being a NRL starter but we have zero to cover backrow depth that is NRL quality.
Lucy was signed as a starter for us, yes he has improved but it costed us alot. BJ joined & left and so did Lucy. Madge also moved Garner who was starting to fire with his combo with Brooks to have Lucy play next to his brother due to how bad things were going. Can credit Madge for Lucy becoming an 70min backrower sure but can also credit Madge for consequences of being too nice and playing favorites as well.
I find it interesting that you mentioned players who have left but didn’t mention a player who is staying & wants to be here which says alot.
I watch every minute of every NRL game and Wests Tigers have had only 3 credible games this year
Game1 vs Storm,Game 6 vs Parramatta and Game 7 vs Souths
We beat dogs but so can anybody , we defended ok against warriors and titans but attack i those 2 games dreadful . The teams we fielded in games
1, 6 and 7 were good now Laurie back and newcomers Naden and Brown and in my opinion Madden can make better
The rest of the games hopeless
Game1 vs Storm,Game 6 vs Parramatta and Game 7 vs Souths
We beat dogs but so can anybody , we defended ok against warriors and titans but attack i those 2 games dreadful . The teams we fielded in games
1, 6 and 7 were good now Laurie back and newcomers Naden and Brown and in my opinion Madden can make better
The rest of the games hopeless
Bro - You're just twisting it to suit your emotion on it.
I notice you didn't acknowledge we're still paying Mbye (Affecting the cap) That's OK, I don't need to hold that against you.
100% of the players Madge signed, With the money he had. You refusing to acknowledge that most of those players were signed when we had limited cap space due to overpaying underperforming players NOT signed by Madge.
Moms didn't leave, He was traded (under contract) - Twice... And we got the lions share of the trade - Both times.
He also re-signed with us before he went to Melbourne (Hated the coach so much, he signed on for a couple years on his way out) He's also played Ressies since he left.... So not every day of the week is he good enough for a top 8 side - Most maybe, but not all.
"Things" got "So Bad" That Aloiai and Matto left on much more inflated contracts than they had - And that's Madges' fault how?
Blaming the club or coach gave them out - They left for Money... Both of them.
End of story.
Matterson was interviewed on the news and said he'd consider a return to the club - (Hates the coach so much he'd consider a return)
When the players are winning games on their own, The can disagree with the coach all they like - Comparing our squad and the champions of the game he had at Souths is chalk and cheese.
When Wingers stop letting in 4-5 trys a game, They can tell the coach they don't think he's doing it right.
Which players you want me to mention that want to stay - Stefano? In the Origin squad last year, Bought by and bought on by Madge... Extended contract recently under Madge.
Doueihi - Madge poached him over to Souths and got him back from Souths.
Hastings - openly declared he wants to play under Madge long term - And "Hopes" it's at the Tigers. Recruited by Madge... Openly admits his chats with Madge got him to the club.
There's 3 of our current best isn't....
Ofahengaue - been one of our best this year, Triggered his option to stay on next year - Under Madge!!
Api played under Madge, Signed by Madge - Top 3 Hooker in the game.
Ice, Played kiwi under Madge, Signed by Madge - Best Back Rower in the game...
How many you want - Or need?
ALL of these players are top line Rep players who have signed to play under Madge after already being coached by him - And ALL have had other coaches,
Surely their opinion on Madges coaching and the fact they've signed on to play under him
far outweighs any argument you could possibly muster for his ability.
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bathursttiger1
Well-known member
Their train wreck is in it’s twenty year.
Mighty_Tiger
Well-known member
I actually don’t have any emotion re Madge if he stays so be it at least we kept to a plan for once & I don’t want yet another review. I like Madge and know it hasn’t been easy for him.
If Madge goes provided we lined someone up then fine, I can’t argue the reason why to keep him as he just hasn’t made a stellar case to be kept on and we move on.
I just don’t want another review in 6mths. As leaders they need to be decisive and lead, make a decision and stick with it.
You raise some valid points but dismissing points you don’t like doesn’t mean Madge isn’t a reason for how badly we are performing. It also however doesn’t mean he isn’t the only one or reason to blame either, Because there are alot of reasons over the 4yrs we have sucked with a bunch totally out of Madges hands.
Re Mbye I did mention before - the reason I dismiss it as the argument is it’s illogical because we clearly had cap space for this year as we tried hard to get JAC & LM + others for this year. We had cap space to use, we didn’t use it. Next year we still have a nice amount of cap space to use also. The year after we have a war chest to spend on selective resignings mixed with youth and bring ins.
As for players not wanting/ wanting to play for him. I never said and would never say no one wanted/wants to play for him. Some players haven’t and left (ones you brought up). Other players have absolutely joined because of Madge (Simpkin great example aside from the ones you mentioned) & still want to play for him.
End of day a review is happening again because we aren’t getting results & our results have been getting worse. Sheens will make recommendations hopefully more than 1 and let’s hope we just stick to the plan regardless of the outcome.
crazycat
Well-known member
Robbo built Easts with Nick's money.
I don't understand Easts, I don't understand the loyality, I don't understand when Mitchell Pearce can get thrown out like old trash as so many of their players have been that people are still loyal!? Hey maybe we should start treating players poorly so we get loyality!?!?
Robbo did build Easts. He made the right hiring and firing decisions. Sure picking Cooper Cronk wasn't an option for many coaches and dumping Pearce who did perform at the club level was huge. It all worked. Robbo knows the juniors and knows who is coming in.
Bennett and Newcastle is a story destroyed by a horrible accident. Year before that Newcastle makes the Quarter finals after a long absence. Wayne perfect? Nope. Yet he clearly gets enough to take teams to the finals, you just have to look at Brisbane to see what happens when you remove Bennett.
aturkey
Well-known member
They were a pass away from a semi last year and we were beaten by 30+ by the dogs last round. The trajectory each club is on has been a little different.
crazycat
Well-known member
100% agreed except to 100% disagree
Madge had 2 years to work out what was needed and brought:
2x premium centers.
Ditched our development hookers and got Api Koroisau.
Realised that we needed a structural half and brought Hastings.
Madge has made far better hiring decisions then Cleary and Sheens.
Madge has failed to coach the team and improve the Wests tigers in our weak areas:
Defense
Grit/staying power
Structured attack (and Madge is an attacking coach).
When the Bulldogs were playing under Dean Pay, they would turn up. They would loose, but they would defend their line and tackle hard. Likewise Cronulla when they were coming 16th. Were not turning up most games!
That's why we should fire Madge. Not because he has hired badly, every coach stuffs hiring occasionally. We should fire Madge because we have not technically improved and still appear to be playing randomball.
