Transfer Market: Tigers’ shock bid to snare DWZ

[JC99]

are we able to use some of this year's salary cap to bump up Mbye so we pay less the next 2 years ?

Why arn't we doing this for say Brooks? or Twal or Tamou or Daine Laurie?

I don't understand why we don't frontload our cap a lot more. Were probably not going to make the 8, what we have to give up on signing DWZ for 400k this year...woopie.

Frontload our spare coin on players we are going to keep. I hate that we have signed Mbye, but I have to admit putting him at 5/8 has worked and he has played his heart out. The fact that he stayed in first grade when Reynolds and Packer dropped all comes down to attitude. I would frontload anyone else but Mbye though.
Look, honestly Mbye was an 750K investment that never worked out. Sure he has sometimes played at the 200k level, sometimes at the 450k level.. But if I had to pick our backline it is:
Daine Laurie
Cini/Nofo
Doueini/James - jet-Roberts, plus we have Oliver coming from the UK.
Hastings + Brooks in the halves.

Mbye at best is NR14. OR Mbye starts at 6 and Hastings forces his way into the starting squad.

We probably won't be signing Mbye on less then 450k. No way we should be frontloading HIM, and why spend so much on NR14 when we could put up a junior. I don't see where Mbye fits, why front load?

Because this year is technically a write off in terms of recruitment so if we front-load Mbye's contract he would be on say 500k next year. If he goes to crap and someone picks him up next year, we will only be contributing around 200k as opposed to 500k.


Because we will have paid the rest this year, how does that save money?

Doesn't save any money ...Does re-arrange when the money is paid...creates more Cap space in 2022


Agree with that, but IMO it doesnt make sense to front load a player if you looking to get another club to take him off your books, you will pay a larger percentage of the salary.

Makes sense to front load a Brooks because he will definitely be here for another year.

Front loading a player you are looking to get rid of doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't either...But no doubt I don't see us signing 2 quality players in the next month..so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year..you don't carry over...

You can front load... not to the extent you use to be able ..if it was me..I would spread the excess over 5 or 6 players like Nofoaluma, Garner, Utoikamanu, Douiehi..offer Luciano a bit of sweetener to extend all from money still left from 2021..when it's all added up and deducted from 2022 or 23 even you create space..Also not 1 player is taking a big swing in salary from year to year...

Is it the money (cap) or the numbers (squad of 30) or both that the NRL want done?

Both. Need 30 players signed by the deadline and there is a minimum % of the cap money that needs be spent (90% from memory).

So, if we have no one in mind to sign, we will bring 2 development players up and distribute the cap balance out where they think it required?

Yes that is the most likely outcome.

Hopefully next year there's only one spot open and it's filled relatively early into the year. We are at a disadvantage only using 28 out of our 30 spots, lack depth in certain positions and are struggling to fill them.

To be honest I don't think it is that critical and would prefer the club to keep a couple of spots open. It wasn't that long ago we had a top 25 players. We now have 30 plus development players and this year we can now even play players on second tier contracts.

One spot is plenty, when we are lacking depth in multiple positions and have multiple spots open in our roster it shows an issue in our recruitment. It's nothing major but hopefully it's improved next year, happy to keep one spot open just in case but we are over halfway through the season now the spots need to be filled

Be interesting to see who they would promote. I'm assuming Tuilagi would be one

Tuilagi will be upgraded i would think. I don't think it shows an issue with recruitment at all, I think it was planned all along. Keep those spots if a player becomes available then you take them, if not you upgrade a development player. We tried to get Hastings across and that would have filled a spot. Imagine the uproar if a couple of world class players became available and we couldn't fit them in.

Problem is we don't have a winger and we've got spots open in the roster, that shows we've failed to sign someone for that position/spot.

Happy to keep spots open but not over halfway through a season that's all

That is because we went into season banking on Kepaoa filling that wing position, that is why we have actively been trying to negotiate a swap for a winger in recent weeks.


Hopefully we sign a winger ASAP. Roberts will be targeted this week I feel Sivo will be a big test

How good would it be to see Jimmy just burn him all game. I reckon that would be so good for the Jets confidence (which looks like it’s slowly building)

In attack he will do well, sivo jams in off his wing and jimmy should be able to get around him, it's defensively that he might struggle.

 

[GCfan]

are we able to use some of this year's salary cap to bump up Mbye so we pay less the next 2 years ?

Why arn't we doing this for say Brooks? or Twal or Tamou or Daine Laurie?

I don't understand why we don't frontload our cap a lot more. Were probably not going to make the 8, what we have to give up on signing DWZ for 400k this year...woopie.

Frontload our spare coin on players we are going to keep. I hate that we have signed Mbye, but I have to admit putting him at 5/8 has worked and he has played his heart out. The fact that he stayed in first grade when Reynolds and Packer dropped all comes down to attitude. I would frontload anyone else but Mbye though.
Look, honestly Mbye was an 750K investment that never worked out. Sure he has sometimes played at the 200k level, sometimes at the 450k level.. But if I had to pick our backline it is:
Daine Laurie
Cini/Nofo
Doueini/James - jet-Roberts, plus we have Oliver coming from the UK.
Hastings + Brooks in the halves.

Mbye at best is NR14. OR Mbye starts at 6 and Hastings forces his way into the starting squad.

We probably won't be signing Mbye on less then 450k. No way we should be frontloading HIM, and why spend so much on NR14 when we could put up a junior. I don't see where Mbye fits, why front load?

Because this year is technically a write off in terms of recruitment so if we front-load Mbye's contract he would be on say 500k next year. If he goes to crap and someone picks him up next year, we will only be contributing around 200k as opposed to 500k.


Because we will have paid the rest this year, how does that save money?

Doesn't save any money ...Does re-arrange when the money is paid...creates more Cap space in 2022


Agree with that, but IMO it doesnt make sense to front load a player if you looking to get another club to take him off your books, you will pay a larger percentage of the salary.

Makes sense to front load a Brooks because he will definitely be here for another year.

Front loading a player you are looking to get rid of doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't either...But no doubt I don't see us signing 2 quality players in the next month..so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year..you don't carry over...

You can front load... not to the extent you use to be able ..if it was me..I would spread the excess over 5 or 6 players like Nofoaluma, Garner, Utoikamanu, Douiehi..offer Luciano a bit of sweetener to extend all from money still left from 2021..when it's all added up and deducted from 2022 or 23 even you create space..Also not 1 player is taking a big swing in salary from year to year...

Is it the money (cap) or the numbers (squad of 30) or both that the NRL want done?

Both. Need 30 players signed by the deadline and there is a minimum % of the cap money that needs be spent (90% from memory).

So, if we have no one in mind to sign, we will bring 2 development players up and distribute the cap balance out where they think it required?

Yes that is the most likely outcome.

Hopefully next year there's only one spot open and it's filled relatively early into the year. We are at a disadvantage only using 28 out of our 30 spots, lack depth in certain positions and are struggling to fill them.

To be honest I don't think it is that critical and would prefer the club to keep a couple of spots open. It wasn't that long ago we had a top 25 players. We now have 30 plus development players and this year we can now even play players on second tier contracts.

One spot is plenty, when we are lacking depth in multiple positions and have multiple spots open in our roster it shows an issue in our recruitment. It's nothing major but hopefully it's improved next year, happy to keep one spot open just in case but we are over halfway through the season now the spots need to be filled

Be interesting to see who they would promote. I'm assuming Tuilagi would be one

Tuilagi will be upgraded i would think. I don't think it shows an issue with recruitment at all, I think it was planned all along. Keep those spots if a player becomes available then you take them, if not you upgrade a development player. We tried to get Hastings across and that would have filled a spot. Imagine the uproar if a couple of world class players became available and we couldn't fit them in.

Problem is we don't have a winger and we've got spots open in the roster, that shows we've failed to sign someone for that position/spot.

Happy to keep spots open but not over halfway through a season that's all

That is because we went into season banking on Kepaoa filling that wing position, that is why we have actively been trying to negotiate a swap for a winger in recent weeks.


Hopefully we sign a winger ASAP. Roberts will be targeted this week I feel Sivo will be a big test

How good would it be to see Jimmy just burn him all game. I reckon that would be so good for the Jets confidence (which looks like it’s slowly building)

In attack he will do well, sivo jams in off his wing and jimmy should be able to get around him, it's defensively that he might struggle.

Fingers crossed Jet can scramble enough to bring down the huge unit. (And not turn into a speed bump)

 

[Demps]

are we able to use some of this year's salary cap to bump up Mbye so we pay less the next 2 years ?

Why arn't we doing this for say Brooks? or Twal or Tamou or Daine Laurie?

I don't understand why we don't frontload our cap a lot more. Were probably not going to make the 8, what we have to give up on signing DWZ for 400k this year...woopie.

Frontload our spare coin on players we are going to keep. I hate that we have signed Mbye, but I have to admit putting him at 5/8 has worked and he has played his heart out. The fact that he stayed in first grade when Reynolds and Packer dropped all comes down to attitude. I would frontload anyone else but Mbye though.
Look, honestly Mbye was an 750K investment that never worked out. Sure he has sometimes played at the 200k level, sometimes at the 450k level.. But if I had to pick our backline it is:
Daine Laurie
Cini/Nofo
Doueini/James - jet-Roberts, plus we have Oliver coming from the UK.
Hastings + Brooks in the halves.

Mbye at best is NR14. OR Mbye starts at 6 and Hastings forces his way into the starting squad.

We probably won't be signing Mbye on less then 450k. No way we should be frontloading HIM, and why spend so much on NR14 when we could put up a junior. I don't see where Mbye fits, why front load?

Because this year is technically a write off in terms of recruitment so if we front-load Mbye's contract he would be on say 500k next year. If he goes to crap and someone picks him up next year, we will only be contributing around 200k as opposed to 500k.


Because we will have paid the rest this year, how does that save money?

Doesn't save any money ...Does re-arrange when the money is paid...creates more Cap space in 2022


Agree with that, but IMO it doesnt make sense to front load a player if you looking to get another club to take him off your books, you will pay a larger percentage of the salary.

Makes sense to front load a Brooks because he will definitely be here for another year.

Front loading a player you are looking to get rid of doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't either...But no doubt I don't see us signing 2 quality players in the next month..so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year..you don't carry over...

You can front load... not to the extent you use to be able ..if it was me..I would spread the excess over 5 or 6 players like Nofoaluma, Garner, Utoikamanu, Douiehi..offer Luciano a bit of sweetener to extend all from money still left from 2021..when it's all added up and deducted from 2022 or 23 even you create space..Also not 1 player is taking a big swing in salary from year to year...

Is it the money (cap) or the numbers (squad of 30) or both that the NRL want done?

Both. Need 30 players signed by the deadline and there is a minimum % of the cap money that needs be spent (90% from memory).

So, if we have no one in mind to sign, we will bring 2 development players up and distribute the cap balance out where they think it required?

Yes that is the most likely outcome.

Hopefully next year there's only one spot open and it's filled relatively early into the year. We are at a disadvantage only using 28 out of our 30 spots, lack depth in certain positions and are struggling to fill them.

To be honest I don't think it is that critical and would prefer the club to keep a couple of spots open. It wasn't that long ago we had a top 25 players. We now have 30 plus development players and this year we can now even play players on second tier contracts.

One spot is plenty, when we are lacking depth in multiple positions and have multiple spots open in our roster it shows an issue in our recruitment. It's nothing major but hopefully it's improved next year, happy to keep one spot open just in case but we are over halfway through the season now the spots need to be filled

Be interesting to see who they would promote. I'm assuming Tuilagi would be one

Tuilagi will be upgraded i would think. I don't think it shows an issue with recruitment at all, I think it was planned all along. Keep those spots if a player becomes available then you take them, if not you upgrade a development player. We tried to get Hastings across and that would have filled a spot. Imagine the uproar if a couple of world class players became available and we couldn't fit them in.

Problem is we don't have a winger and we've got spots open in the roster, that shows we've failed to sign someone for that position/spot.

Happy to keep spots open but not over halfway through a season that's all

That is because we went into season banking on Kepaoa filling that wing position, that is why we have actively been trying to negotiate a swap for a winger in recent weeks.


Hopefully we sign a winger ASAP. Roberts will be targeted this week I feel Sivo will be a big test

How good would it be to see Jimmy just burn him all game. I reckon that would be so good for the Jets confidence (which looks like it’s slowly building)

In attack he will do well, sivo jams in off his wing and jimmy should be able to get around him, it's defensively that he might struggle.

Fingers crossed Jet can scramble enough to bring down the huge unit. (And not turn into a speed bump)

Game of the round, this one.
Cannot wait.

 

[twentyforty]

are we able to use some of this year's salary cap to bump up Mbye so we pay less the next 2 years ?

Why arn't we doing this for say Brooks? or Twal or Tamou or Daine Laurie?

I don't understand why we don't frontload our cap a lot more. Were probably not going to make the 8, what we have to give up on signing DWZ for 400k this year...woopie.

Frontload our spare coin on players we are going to keep. I hate that we have signed Mbye, but I have to admit putting him at 5/8 has worked and he has played his heart out. The fact that he stayed in first grade when Reynolds and Packer dropped all comes down to attitude. I would frontload anyone else but Mbye though.
Look, honestly Mbye was an 750K investment that never worked out. Sure he has sometimes played at the 200k level, sometimes at the 450k level.. But if I had to pick our backline it is:
Daine Laurie
Cini/Nofo
Doueini/James - jet-Roberts, plus we have Oliver coming from the UK.
Hastings + Brooks in the halves.

Mbye at best is NR14. OR Mbye starts at 6 and Hastings forces his way into the starting squad.

We probably won't be signing Mbye on less then 450k. No way we should be frontloading HIM, and why spend so much on NR14 when we could put up a junior. I don't see where Mbye fits, why front load?

Because this year is technically a write off in terms of recruitment so if we front-load Mbye's contract he would be on say 500k next year. If he goes to crap and someone picks him up next year, we will only be contributing around 200k as opposed to 500k.


Because we will have paid the rest this year, how does that save money?

Doesn't save any money ...Does re-arrange when the money is paid...creates more Cap space in 2022


Agree with that, but IMO it doesnt make sense to front load a player if you looking to get another club to take him off your books, you will pay a larger percentage of the salary.

Makes sense to front load a Brooks because he will definitely be here for another year.

Front loading a player you are looking to get rid of doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't either...But no doubt I don't see us signing 2 quality players in the next month..so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year..you don't carry over...

You can front load... not to the extent you use to be able ..if it was me..I would spread the excess over 5 or 6 players like Nofoaluma, Garner, Utoikamanu, Douiehi..offer Luciano a bit of sweetener to extend all from money still left from 2021..when it's all added up and deducted from 2022 or 23 even you create space..Also not 1 player is taking a big swing in salary from year to year...

Is it the money (cap) or the numbers (squad of 30) or both that the NRL want done?

Both. Need 30 players signed by the deadline and there is a minimum % of the cap money that needs be spent (90% from memory).

So, if we have no one in mind to sign, we will bring 2 development players up and distribute the cap balance out where they think it required?

Yes that is the most likely outcome.

Hopefully next year there's only one spot open and it's filled relatively early into the year. We are at a disadvantage only using 28 out of our 30 spots, lack depth in certain positions and are struggling to fill them.

To be honest I don't think it is that critical and would prefer the club to keep a couple of spots open. It wasn't that long ago we had a top 25 players. We now have 30 plus development players and this year we can now even play players on second tier contracts.

One spot is plenty, when we are lacking depth in multiple positions and have multiple spots open in our roster it shows an issue in our recruitment. It's nothing major but hopefully it's improved next year, happy to keep one spot open just in case but we are over halfway through the season now the spots need to be filled

Be interesting to see who they would promote. I'm assuming Tuilagi would be one

Tuilagi will be upgraded i would think. I don't think it shows an issue with recruitment at all, I think it was planned all along. Keep those spots if a player becomes available then you take them, if not you upgrade a development player. We tried to get Hastings across and that would have filled a spot. Imagine the uproar if a couple of world class players became available and we couldn't fit them in.

It shows an issue for mine. In an age where clubs use sports science, high performance staff and the like to get every little edge, playing a collision sport with less players to pick from than your opposition is a disadvantage, we’ve had a pretty good run with injuries which maybe hasn’t emphasised the problem - But it’s a clear issue that we can’t attract top notch players.

I honestly think roster sizes of 30 are too big.

Perhaps but when you look at our roster compared to the top sides, I’d say we’d take a couple of good defenders if we could attract them.

Of course we would, but no players have become available during the season this year. We have tried to get some players from other clubs to fill needs but other clubs haven't released them. So in that situation you upgrade some of your youngsters, it is actually good recruitment.

Might be sensible and future focussed but it’s a strategy that’s forced on us because good players aren’t knocking on our door. You’ve said it yourself, until we start winning we have a recruitment problem.

We definitely have an issue attracting high profile players but this is a different situation to that, I have no problem with us holding 2 spots open at the start of the season for any players that may become available, if none do then upgrade youngsters.

Those 2 spots aren't there because we missed out a high profile player, they were planned to be open spots.


I think they’re related. If we didn’t have a red hot crack at Xavier Coates I’d be disappointed.

What does that have to do with open spots for this year? He signed with the Storm for next year.

Yeah but we know Broncos are looking to rework their salary cap, so he was technically on the market. Other big names that have been on the market this year include Reece Walsh, Toby Rudolph, Schuster and Brimson. All good players that I’m sure we could have used if they were keen on coming to Wests Tigers. But I dare say they weren’t.

We are not an attractive club for high profile players, 10 years without finals does that to a club and it is not something that you can wave a magic wand and fix. We are building nicely through our youth signings, that and smart decisions around the experience players we sign needs to be our strategy until we become more attractive.

So we agree, your first sentence is exactly my point. Where we differ in opinion is that I would have liked us to fill one of those spots with a ‘good first grader’ earlier in the year. With the benefit of hindsight Isiah Papalii from the Warriors would have been good.

We have tried to get multiple players from other clubs but they have fallen through.

We’re goin in circles a little now, I call that a recruitment issue. I think our recruitment has improved with the Laurie, AD, Simpkin, Stef signings a clear indication of that, but until we can land some match winners to blend in there with them I believe we continue to tread water (win every second or third week). The young brigade need to see what it takes to win before they will win. And the winning needs to start to resolve the recruitment issue. Vicious cycle.

Bags , it can take a short time for a club to trash it’s brand, but a painstakingly long time to rebuild it. We needed to sign those players you mention and we need their careers to blossom before we can be that club. We need to be seen as a club which improves the reputation of its players.That’s the challenge. Coates signed on at Storm for less because of this dominant motivator. While the club has that single goal of improving the reputation of its player the future will remain bright.

 

[cochise]

are we able to use some of this year's salary cap to bump up Mbye so we pay less the next 2 years ?

Why arn't we doing this for say Brooks? or Twal or Tamou or Daine Laurie?

I don't understand why we don't frontload our cap a lot more. Were probably not going to make the 8, what we have to give up on signing DWZ for 400k this year...woopie.

Frontload our spare coin on players we are going to keep. I hate that we have signed Mbye, but I have to admit putting him at 5/8 has worked and he has played his heart out. The fact that he stayed in first grade when Reynolds and Packer dropped all comes down to attitude. I would frontload anyone else but Mbye though.
Look, honestly Mbye was an 750K investment that never worked out. Sure he has sometimes played at the 200k level, sometimes at the 450k level.. But if I had to pick our backline it is:
Daine Laurie
Cini/Nofo
Doueini/James - jet-Roberts, plus we have Oliver coming from the UK.
Hastings + Brooks in the halves.

Mbye at best is NR14. OR Mbye starts at 6 and Hastings forces his way into the starting squad.

We probably won't be signing Mbye on less then 450k. No way we should be frontloading HIM, and why spend so much on NR14 when we could put up a junior. I don't see where Mbye fits, why front load?

Because this year is technically a write off in terms of recruitment so if we front-load Mbye's contract he would be on say 500k next year. If he goes to crap and someone picks him up next year, we will only be contributing around 200k as opposed to 500k.


Because we will have paid the rest this year, how does that save money?

Doesn't save any money ...Does re-arrange when the money is paid...creates more Cap space in 2022


Agree with that, but IMO it doesnt make sense to front load a player if you looking to get another club to take him off your books, you will pay a larger percentage of the salary.

Makes sense to front load a Brooks because he will definitely be here for another year.

Front loading a player you are looking to get rid of doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't either...But no doubt I don't see us signing 2 quality players in the next month..so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year..you don't carry over...

You can front load... not to the extent you use to be able ..if it was me..I would spread the excess over 5 or 6 players like Nofoaluma, Garner, Utoikamanu, Douiehi..offer Luciano a bit of sweetener to extend all from money still left from 2021..when it's all added up and deducted from 2022 or 23 even you create space..Also not 1 player is taking a big swing in salary from year to year...

Is it the money (cap) or the numbers (squad of 30) or both that the NRL want done?

Both. Need 30 players signed by the deadline and there is a minimum % of the cap money that needs be spent (90% from memory).

So, if we have no one in mind to sign, we will bring 2 development players up and distribute the cap balance out where they think it required?

Yes that is the most likely outcome.

Hopefully next year there's only one spot open and it's filled relatively early into the year. We are at a disadvantage only using 28 out of our 30 spots, lack depth in certain positions and are struggling to fill them.

To be honest I don't think it is that critical and would prefer the club to keep a couple of spots open. It wasn't that long ago we had a top 25 players. We now have 30 plus development players and this year we can now even play players on second tier contracts.

One spot is plenty, when we are lacking depth in multiple positions and have multiple spots open in our roster it shows an issue in our recruitment. It's nothing major but hopefully it's improved next year, happy to keep one spot open just in case but we are over halfway through the season now the spots need to be filled

Be interesting to see who they would promote. I'm assuming Tuilagi would be one

Tuilagi will be upgraded i would think. I don't think it shows an issue with recruitment at all, I think it was planned all along. Keep those spots if a player becomes available then you take them, if not you upgrade a development player. We tried to get Hastings across and that would have filled a spot. Imagine the uproar if a couple of world class players became available and we couldn't fit them in.

Problem is we don't have a winger and we've got spots open in the roster, that shows we've failed to sign someone for that position/spot.

Happy to keep spots open but not over halfway through a season that's all

That is because we went into season banking on Kepaoa filling that wing position, that is why we have actively been trying to negotiate a swap for a winger in recent weeks.

The bloke who's not a winger - not a great decision. Was moved to centre before being hurt. Realistically we went into the season with only Nofa and AJ to cover wing while having roster spots open

Hopefully we sign a winger ASAP. Roberts will be targeted this week I feel Sivo will be a big test

He seemed to think his best position was winger. He said as much in an interview in the off season.

He’s played a good 60-70 minutes at centre which is not enough for me to believe he’s suddenly going to be able to catch in the centres.

Much like Roberts on the wing for me. Still yet to be proven successful.

I do agree though it was silly to have AJ as a first choice winger. Ignoring Mansour was a crazy decision considering Souths got him for 2 years which IMO was fine.

His problem is catching those high balls under pressure, he's a good ball runner who can score a try. If he can't field kicks he definitely can't be on the wing, shouldn't be as much of an issue at centre hopefully.

We had a glaring lack of depth at wing before the season even started and it was never fixed. Shouldn't be left over halfway through a season

I agree we lack depth at wing, but we lacked that depth prior to the season starting, the issue is we went into the season without a 2nd winger. I agree with that but what I am saying is that moving forward there is no problem saving a couple of spots for mid season player movement. The issue this year was squad balance not the vacant positions.

 

[BAGNF05]

are we able to use some of this year's salary cap to bump up Mbye so we pay less the next 2 years ?

Why arn't we doing this for say Brooks? or Twal or Tamou or Daine Laurie?

I don't understand why we don't frontload our cap a lot more. Were probably not going to make the 8, what we have to give up on signing DWZ for 400k this year...woopie.

Frontload our spare coin on players we are going to keep. I hate that we have signed Mbye, but I have to admit putting him at 5/8 has worked and he has played his heart out. The fact that he stayed in first grade when Reynolds and Packer dropped all comes down to attitude. I would frontload anyone else but Mbye though.
Look, honestly Mbye was an 750K investment that never worked out. Sure he has sometimes played at the 200k level, sometimes at the 450k level.. But if I had to pick our backline it is:
Daine Laurie
Cini/Nofo
Doueini/James - jet-Roberts, plus we have Oliver coming from the UK.
Hastings + Brooks in the halves.

Mbye at best is NR14. OR Mbye starts at 6 and Hastings forces his way into the starting squad.

We probably won't be signing Mbye on less then 450k. No way we should be frontloading HIM, and why spend so much on NR14 when we could put up a junior. I don't see where Mbye fits, why front load?

Because this year is technically a write off in terms of recruitment so if we front-load Mbye's contract he would be on say 500k next year. If he goes to crap and someone picks him up next year, we will only be contributing around 200k as opposed to 500k.


Because we will have paid the rest this year, how does that save money?

Doesn't save any money ...Does re-arrange when the money is paid...creates more Cap space in 2022


Agree with that, but IMO it doesnt make sense to front load a player if you looking to get another club to take him off your books, you will pay a larger percentage of the salary.

Makes sense to front load a Brooks because he will definitely be here for another year.

Front loading a player you are looking to get rid of doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't either...But no doubt I don't see us signing 2 quality players in the next month..so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year..you don't carry over...

You can front load... not to the extent you use to be able ..if it was me..I would spread the excess over 5 or 6 players like Nofoaluma, Garner, Utoikamanu, Douiehi..offer Luciano a bit of sweetener to extend all from money still left from 2021..when it's all added up and deducted from 2022 or 23 even you create space..Also not 1 player is taking a big swing in salary from year to year...

Is it the money (cap) or the numbers (squad of 30) or both that the NRL want done?

Both. Need 30 players signed by the deadline and there is a minimum % of the cap money that needs be spent (90% from memory).

So, if we have no one in mind to sign, we will bring 2 development players up and distribute the cap balance out where they think it required?

Yes that is the most likely outcome.

Hopefully next year there's only one spot open and it's filled relatively early into the year. We are at a disadvantage only using 28 out of our 30 spots, lack depth in certain positions and are struggling to fill them.

To be honest I don't think it is that critical and would prefer the club to keep a couple of spots open. It wasn't that long ago we had a top 25 players. We now have 30 plus development players and this year we can now even play players on second tier contracts.

One spot is plenty, when we are lacking depth in multiple positions and have multiple spots open in our roster it shows an issue in our recruitment. It's nothing major but hopefully it's improved next year, happy to keep one spot open just in case but we are over halfway through the season now the spots need to be filled

Be interesting to see who they would promote. I'm assuming Tuilagi would be one

Tuilagi will be upgraded i would think. I don't think it shows an issue with recruitment at all, I think it was planned all along. Keep those spots if a player becomes available then you take them, if not you upgrade a development player. We tried to get Hastings across and that would have filled a spot. Imagine the uproar if a couple of world class players became available and we couldn't fit them in.

It shows an issue for mine. In an age where clubs use sports science, high performance staff and the like to get every little edge, playing a collision sport with less players to pick from than your opposition is a disadvantage, we’ve had a pretty good run with injuries which maybe hasn’t emphasised the problem - But it’s a clear issue that we can’t attract top notch players.

I honestly think roster sizes of 30 are too big.

Perhaps but when you look at our roster compared to the top sides, I’d say we’d take a couple of good defenders if we could attract them.

Of course we would, but no players have become available during the season this year. We have tried to get some players from other clubs to fill needs but other clubs haven't released them. So in that situation you upgrade some of your youngsters, it is actually good recruitment.

Might be sensible and future focussed but it’s a strategy that’s forced on us because good players aren’t knocking on our door. You’ve said it yourself, until we start winning we have a recruitment problem.

We definitely have an issue attracting high profile players but this is a different situation to that, I have no problem with us holding 2 spots open at the start of the season for any players that may become available, if none do then upgrade youngsters.

Those 2 spots aren't there because we missed out a high profile player, they were planned to be open spots.


I think they’re related. If we didn’t have a red hot crack at Xavier Coates I’d be disappointed.


I don’t know if i care now seeing he’s heading to Melbourne but understand the sentiment of wanting to be active for the best players.

My point is you can leave all the roster spots open you want but you need to be prepared for the outcome where you end up promoting from within and you have basically left yourself at a competitive disadvantage. This would be made worse had we had a really bad run of injuries. Anyway, I’m keen to see big Tuilagi he looks a prospect.

 

[851]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

 

[851]

are we able to use some of this year's salary cap to bump up Mbye so we pay less the next 2 years ?

Why arn't we doing this for say Brooks? or Twal or Tamou or Daine Laurie?

I don't understand why we don't frontload our cap a lot more. Were probably not going to make the 8, what we have to give up on signing DWZ for 400k this year...woopie.

Frontload our spare coin on players we are going to keep. I hate that we have signed Mbye, but I have to admit putting him at 5/8 has worked and he has played his heart out. The fact that he stayed in first grade when Reynolds and Packer dropped all comes down to attitude. I would frontload anyone else but Mbye though.
Look, honestly Mbye was an 750K investment that never worked out. Sure he has sometimes played at the 200k level, sometimes at the 450k level.. But if I had to pick our backline it is:
Daine Laurie
Cini/Nofo
Doueini/James - jet-Roberts, plus we have Oliver coming from the UK.
Hastings + Brooks in the halves.

Mbye at best is NR14. OR Mbye starts at 6 and Hastings forces his way into the starting squad.

We probably won't be signing Mbye on less then 450k. No way we should be frontloading HIM, and why spend so much on NR14 when we could put up a junior. I don't see where Mbye fits, why front load?

Because this year is technically a write off in terms of recruitment so if we front-load Mbye's contract he would be on say 500k next year. If he goes to crap and someone picks him up next year, we will only be contributing around 200k as opposed to 500k.


Because we will have paid the rest this year, how does that save money?

Doesn't save any money ...Does re-arrange when the money is paid...creates more Cap space in 2022


Agree with that, but IMO it doesnt make sense to front load a player if you looking to get another club to take him off your books, you will pay a larger percentage of the salary.

Makes sense to front load a Brooks because he will definitely be here for another year.

Front loading a player you are looking to get rid of doesn't make sense to me.

I wouldn't either...But no doubt I don't see us signing 2 quality players in the next month..so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year..you don't carry over...

You can front load... not to the extent you use to be able ..if it was me..I would spread the excess over 5 or 6 players like Nofoaluma, Garner, Utoikamanu, Douiehi..offer Luciano a bit of sweetener to extend all from money still left from 2021..when it's all added up and deducted from 2022 or 23 even you create space..Also not 1 player is taking a big swing in salary from year to year...

Is it the money (cap) or the numbers (squad of 30) or both that the NRL want done?

Both. Need 30 players signed by the deadline and there is a minimum % of the cap money that needs be spent (90% from memory).

So, if we have no one in mind to sign, we will bring 2 development players up and distribute the cap balance out where they think it required?

Yes that is the most likely outcome.

Hopefully next year there's only one spot open and it's filled relatively early into the year. We are at a disadvantage only using 28 out of our 30 spots, lack depth in certain positions and are struggling to fill them.

To be honest I don't think it is that critical and would prefer the club to keep a couple of spots open. It wasn't that long ago we had a top 25 players. We now have 30 plus development players and this year we can now even play players on second tier contracts.

One spot is plenty, when we are lacking depth in multiple positions and have multiple spots open in our roster it shows an issue in our recruitment. It's nothing major but hopefully it's improved next year, happy to keep one spot open just in case but we are over halfway through the season now the spots need to be filled

Be interesting to see who they would promote. I'm assuming Tuilagi would be one

Tuilagi will be upgraded i would think. I don't think it shows an issue with recruitment at all, I think it was planned all along. Keep those spots if a player becomes available then you take them, if not you upgrade a development player. We tried to get Hastings across and that would have filled a spot. Imagine the uproar if a couple of world class players became available and we couldn't fit them in.

Problem is we don't have a winger and we've got spots open in the roster, that shows we've failed to sign someone for that position/spot.

Happy to keep spots open but not over halfway through a season that's all

That was my point earlier on, we seem to miss the mark on a lot of occassions in regards to signings

 

[TillLindemann]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

I'd call Joe Offa a pretty high profile signing.

 

[851]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

I'd call Joe Offa a pretty high profile signing.

Some on here said he was a nuffie/plodder, Brisbane wanted him gone, clubs were not lining up for him, we were realistically his only option

 

[851]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

I'd call Joe Offa a pretty high profile signing.

In Madges time we have had had a crack at Latrell, JAC, Arrow, Capewell, Burton, Lomax, DWZ, TPJ, Isaako and Smith, none of those has come to fruition, and these are only the ones reported, there could be more.
It is always the same ending with these type of signings, something has to change

 

[barra]

So we should start paying overs then?

 

[TillLindemann]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

I'd call Joe Offa a pretty high profile signing.

In Madges time we have had had a crack at Latrell, JAC, Arrow, Capewell, Burton, Lomax, DWZ, TPJ, Isaako and Smith, none of those has come to fruition, and these are only the ones reported, there could be more.
It is always the same ending with these type of signings, something has to change

I think cap/team management wise we are on a smarter path - better to build up a team of 'good' players like Doueihi, Lucy, Laurie etc, than a team with a couple of superstars like JAC or Latrell but padded out with the rest of the team being nuffies, in my opinion.

 

[supercoach]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

I'd call Joe Offa a pretty high profile signing.

In Madges time we have had had a crack at Latrell, JAC, Arrow, Capewell, Burton, Lomax, DWZ, TPJ, Isaako and Smith, none of those has come to fruition, and these are only the ones reported, there could be more.
It is always the same ending with these type of signings, something has to change

Think that might have been part of the reason Sheens was hired. Sheens seems to have a good relationship with some of the player management groups…but I guess at the end of the day it’s all about money and even that doesn’t always work.

We need to get to the situation where all we need to do is the odd top up signing each year, but to get to that, we need possibly two top notch signings. I think the a lot on the forum are reading way to much into our back to back wins and this week might be a rude shock to where we really are at.

 

[TrueTiger]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

851,you have to remember we were pretty well choked in regards to the cap,Ivan done a number on us and Hartigan and Madge have done really well with what they had at their disposal..We are going in a more junior,youth development and recruitment path atm and until we are much better within our cap and playing group,we will still struggle for a little while to afford higher quality signings...Rome wasnt built in a day and as many on here have said "we still need to be patient and let Hartigan and Madge do their job"..I honestly think success is just around the corner,hang in there mate,all will be better than the last 10 years...

 

[balmain boy]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

I'd call Joe Offa a pretty high profile signing.

In Madges time we have had had a crack at Latrell, JAC, Arrow, Capewell, Burton, Lomax, DWZ, TPJ, Isaako and Smith, none of those has come to fruition, and these are only the ones reported, there could be more.
It is always the same ending with these type of signings, something has to change

I think cap/team management wise we are on a smarter path - better to build up a team of 'good' players like Doueihi, Lucy, Laurie etc, than a team with a couple of superstars like JAC or Latrell but padded out with the rest of the team being nuffies, in my opinion.

That's what the Roosters and Storm do. A number of elite players and 10 on minimum wage.

 

[jrtiger]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

I'd call Joe Offa a pretty high profile signing.

In Madges time we have had had a crack at Latrell, JAC, Arrow, Capewell, Burton, Lomax, DWZ, TPJ, Isaako and Smith, none of those has come to fruition, and these are only the ones reported, there could be more.
It is always the same ending with these type of signings, something has to change

the external perception about the club is that we suck. and for the better part of the last decade, its true. Hartigan and Madge are working to remedy this by strengthening our pathways and signing elite young talent. we've gotta build the club from the ground up. we're probably still 2-3 years away from landing a big fish. making the 8 this year and showing some fight would go a long way towards shortening that timeframe.

 

[Tiger-ferret]

I’m comfortable with our recruitment.

Missing out from the above list means we aren’t paying overs. A lot of those have questionable (perceived) attitudes anyway.

We have our forwards sorted. Once they become consistent we’ll land the big outside back fish.

Strong showing this week, win or lose will prove we’ve turned the corner.

 

[hsvjones]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

851,you have to remember we were pretty well choked in regards to the cap,Ivan done a number on us and Hartigan and Madge have done really well with what they had at their disposal..We are going in a more junior,youth development and recruitment path atm and until we are much better within our cap and playing group,we will still struggle for a little while to afford higher quality signings...Rome wasnt built in a day and as many on here have said "we still need to be patient and let Hartigan and Madge do their job"..I honestly think success is just around the corner,hang in there mate,all will be better than the last 10 years...

Well said mate.. Agree 100%
What Madge and Hartigan have done in the last 18months has been remarkable. Plus add all the work that has been done off the field and people we have added E.g. Kimorley and Sheens... The sleeping giant is waking up slowly

 

[851]

I wouldn’t either…But no doubt I don’t see us signing 2 quality players in the next month…so the Cap needs to be exhausted each year…you don’t carry over…

Where are all these players who ring Madge, why can't we sign a couple of those

Maybe they are the one's we don't want or have better prospects coming through..

Works both ways..

Well in 3 seasons, he hasn't signed a high profile player, they can't all be not right for us

851,you have to remember we were pretty well choked in regards to the cap,Ivan done a number on us and Hartigan and Madge have done really well with what they had at their disposal..We are going in a more junior,youth development and recruitment path atm and until we are much better within our cap and playing group,we will still struggle for a little while to afford higher quality signings...Rome wasnt built in a day and as many on here have said "we still need to be patient and let Hartigan and Madge do their job"..I honestly think success is just around the corner,hang in there mate,all will be better than the last 10 years...

I appreciate that mate, I have given Madge and Hartigan a rap for their junior recruitment, and bargain buys, but at some stage we need to land a real in demand player.
This would be a game changer for us, I really think Madge turns off the really good players, as @supercoach said, maybe Sheens was brought in to try fix this, I really hope that is the case.