Two issues - goalkicking and kick returns

H

hybrid_tiger

Well-known member
Goalkicking is still an issue and I suspect its going to cost us some games again this season. We just can't afford to be missing so many kicks. We need an 80% kicker at least. What are the other options? Lawrence? Can Lote kick goals?

The second is our kick returns. Moltzen was diabolical fielding kicks and our kick returns were disgraceful for most of the night. We lose 20 metres everytime.

Look, I think Lui went well at 7, but I'm not sure what the long term solution is. Lui is solid, but is he that good that we should play others out of position? I like how Moltzen chimes into the line from fullback, but purely as a fullback catching bombs and making kick returns he is just not the answer.

Moltzen at 7, Lazarus at 1? I don't know. Moltzen is not an organiser but neither is Lui and I don't think they need to be in the current structure.

Thoughts?
 
The kick return thing, all teams now go for the big jamb play, kick to the corners and put a ring round the no1, Stewart one of the best no1's in the game didnt fair any better than Moltzen in that department. The tigers usually try and break that ploy down with the no1 throwing a big big pass to the opposite winger to make a mid field charge.

Goal kicking,well we love to score in the corners so Benji dosnt have a easy gig. I would keep with him till a better option is discovered and back our ability to score lots more trys. Its amazing how forgiving Iam when we win!!!
 
I agree with the Moltzen part HybridTiger.

Every kick return had him signalling to the winger to wrap around him for the pass. He is a good fullback but not a great one. No direct running alla stewart,slater and hayne from the kick return. Will he stay there im not to sure. Every other part of Moltzens fullback game was spot on. defensively he held his own (tackling not bombs), his support play was great and his ability to break the line and sum up the situation with the correct pass was brilliant.

Goalkicking, im up and down on this. Benji does ok but because he is generally so involved in the tryscoring play he often kicks for goal half out of breath. Does anyone agree?
 
Moltzen is an absolute powder puff on kick returns, you aren't wrong. Crowd around me kept firing up when he'd gesture for his wingers to come around him for a hit up.

He is fast enough to do much better. Beau Ryan is the same size with half the talent, but at least Ryan has a real dig when he takes his hit ups and manages to break a few tackles with footwork.

In space Moltzen is an absolute gem. If he gets a glove on him, he capitulates as badly as Fitzy has ever.

If Moltzen improves then ok, but I am seeing Tuqiri at 1 and Moltzen at 14 in a few weeks.
 
Yeah smart thread hybrid…

I was watching Marshall kick... he strikes the ball well but he angles it to close the near post despite his kick having quite abit of turn in it. Hopefully Taylor can sort out his stance or how positions the ball soon because I think that's all it will take.

With that said.. we cannot afford to miss those 2pts... I have heard Lawrence can kick..

Concerning Moltz at FB... his kick returns are the worst in the comp.. he strolls back and runs sideways and doesn't look confident. His support play last night in the second half was great! First half he was non-existent.... I think he should stay at fullback... but just get Lote to drop back for the returns. I also like it when Marshall drops back for an overlap....

I disagree with you on Lui... he looked like a long term fit last night. Some of his passes would be envied by some of the most seasoned halfbacks. I think having Farah / Lui on the right side and Marshall / Moltz on the right works well.

For the time being... leave the side as is... but definitely sort out our kick returns.
 
With Moltzen he also seems to still be carrying a psychological deal with his elbow. When he gets tackled he winces and almost always examines or shakes out that arm in the minutes after.
 
Yep we are definately missing out on kick returns, we always have, Moltzen just crabs across field looking to link up and by the time he does that the defence is right up in his face, one time there last night he got absolutely smashed by Matai who just lined him up while he was skipping and daydreaming along sideways…

Its not new though, we always used to lose a lot of yardage with Hodgo as well, as brilliant as Hodgo was he was never one to run it back hard.

Moltzen was superb last night, but for god's sake send him to the Karmichael Hunt school of kick returns! HARD, STRAIGHT, METRES.
 
I don't expect Moltzen to run as hard as Hunt did, but at the very least he should not be walking sideways when he picks up the ball! jirskyr was exactly right, crowd was getting very frustrated everytime Moltzen picked up the ball from fullback.

Kaiser I think Lui went well, I just don't think he's THAT good that we should sacrifice a decent kick return to accommodate him. I would leave the team the way it is now (except for the bench) but this is a long term concern and we need to sort it out. I suspect things will change when Tuiaki returns.
 
I have been a Lui critic but i did not see too much wrong with his game last night. I actually enjoyed his performance.

This team will click in to gear very shortly. There is a lot to be excited about.

For now, I say leave Lui as half, with each game his confidence will grow and he will become better and better.

MOLTZEN.. run straight. The pass for Ayshfords try he set up was brilliant.
 
Agree with everything in the original post.

Our kick returns were puss. Tuquiris were good obviously as well. A few of Moltzens were really bad cause he had so much time he could of made a good 20 metre kick return but insteady he just jogged across field and in one instance made Ryan run about 20metres cross field to get it. Under the bomb he wasnt great either but he was good last yeaer so not sure what the story is. Id rather him in the halves. Lui was ok, still dont think hes the answer.

Goalkicking is a tough one. Benjis our best so we have to stick with him, and we do score all tries outwide we arent good enough in the forwards to get them under the sticks. Thats the only other thing I will be concerned with later on. Our go forward. If Galloway or Ellis misses a few games, I dont think we have a heap of go forward (same as last year).
 
For most of last season the kick returns really annoyed me. I am sick and tired of watching Beau Ryan and Tim Moltzen dance about with the ball, instead of charging up to the line. They give away at least 10 metres every time in my opinion.

I could handle it if Tuiaki was wrapping around and charging onto the ball occassionally.
 
@hybrid_tiger said:
Kaiser I think Lui went well, I just don't think he's THAT good that we should sacrifice a decent kick return to accommodate him. I would leave the team the way it is now (except for the bench) but this is a long term concern and we need to sort it out. I suspect things will change when Tuiaki returns.
Click to expand...

No doubt it will and this is why I am not overly concerned just yet. As long as we have Lote back there with Moltz on kick returns… it should be enough until he gets the gig at FB fulltime I'd imagine. Although after last night I'm unsure on whether I would want him moved from the wing... he'll provide many a headache for alot of players...
 
i really like moltzen but confess i havent taken enough notice of him on kick returns. he has shown in the past he has excellent pace, but i think the elbow thing is a very good point.
its hard not to want big lote hitting it up every return though, isnt it?!!

as for goalkicking, i think benji just had an off night last night. maybe his ankle? i acknowledge he misses more than the better kickers from the sideline and that is where most of our conversions are from unfortunately; the bulldogs without el masri showed how important a great kicker is - particularly in the close games which could account for the tigers near misses in the past.
isnt marshall a 'straight' kicker, like taylor was? taylors kicks were always low trajectory and straight from memory.
 
Kick return aren't great, but I think the problem has been overstated here.

Eventually we should have Tuiaki and Tuqiri on the wings. If Moltzen is linking up with those two blokes and then taking a quick run out of dummy half, I don't think there's a problem.
 
I think we just need to leave it as is for now. These are minor issues that IMO wil resolve themselves as they get more game time. Moltzen and Lui did more than enough good things last night to keep them weher they are and these clearly outweighed the bad. It took a little time for Moltz to get involved but i think that can be said for most of the back line who all swicthe doff after the first 20.
 
http://www.weststigersforum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems didn't affect him at all…normal 3/5....

Alternatives?

Moltzen
Farah
Lawrence
Lortay?
 
Agree with everything else said. Kick returns from Moltzen are embarassing to watch…Who will forget the kick he field in the first half and had at least 20 metres of vacant space in front of him, so instead of putting his head down and running straight, he crabwalks 20 metres sideways only to be smashed by Steve Matai.

Goalkicking...Well if Benji doesn't do it, that leaves Moltzen who is no better, or perhaps Tuqiri. Apparently Mark Flanagan can kick, but he's a bench warmer at best at the moment.
 
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ON THE MONEY: BRING BACK HODGO :slight_smile:
Moltzen is out of position at fullback, always caught out on his returns, and looking to link up ALL THE TIME>>> just RUN FORWARD, Sheens is playing Moltzen out of the tigers' 13 by playing him out of position, obviously prefers Lui

As for the kicks: it's a pity that Benji is our best kicker and a good goalkicker adds probably 6 - 8 points in a season normally, a case in point is the bulldogs. Even though they were rubbish against a rubbish team, they still would have won if El Magic was there. We just don't have an awesome golkicker (maybe we should've kept the slowest winger in the NRL Covell or as i said above, Hodgo)
 
Moltzens strength at the back is his ability to chime in and ball-play. He isn't as a dynamic runner like Slater, Hunt or Hayne. With guys like Tuqiri on the wing I would be passing to him as well. As said, teams kick to box the fullback/winger on one side of the field. A long pass opens the field up that play as well as the rest of the set so you aren't working out of your corner against a jammed defensive line. I don't have a real problem with Moltz in that area though I think he is a little unsure of himself under the high ball at the moment and that can be dangerous.

Goalkicking will continue to be an issue. Unfortunately Marshall isn't as reliable as some other kickers in the league at the moment, though I am sure he is trying his hardest to rectify this. He does seem to be the best option at the club and probably needs a few closer to gain some confidence and needs to make sure he doesn't rush himself.
 
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