Two myths the club seems happy to perpetuate...

[ElleryHanley]

Just a few comments on a couple of things that have been peddled out by the club the past few weeks that, when you look closely, simply are not true...

1.**Sacking coaches:** We have not sacked a coach for five years. A longer streak than most clubs. In fact, Pascoe has not sacked a single coach. The last coach we did sack, Taylor, led to a vastly better coach, Cleary, being employed. **So, it is a myth to say we sack coaches all the time and question what is the point of doing it.** No, we don't sack coaches often. Yes, the point is to hire someone better.

2. **Rebuilds take time**...under a salary cap system, no they don't. They take great leaders at the very top combined with people with very high footy nous.


Cronulla have rebuilt a 2016 premiership team...whilst staying around the eight most years...in 2022 they will have the highest rated young coach in the game, really strong assistant coaches and three rep level recruits. They have done all this whilst 'rebuilding' and the club in turmoil (CEO gone, coach gone, multiple senior players broken down or gone). They have had a million excuses, yet used none of them...

Until we stop making excuses, we won't get out of this rut we are in. It is 'concerning' when management keeps mumbling reasons why we are not winning games...and why the coach can stay...rather than aggressively demanding success and making sure people are accountable.

 

[Guest]

Exactly.

 

[sheer64]

Biggest myth is that the players are not the fault. Not sure who is out there wearing the jersey then.

 

[ElleryHanley]

Biggest myth is that the players are not the fault. Not sure who is out there wearing the jersey then.

Madge and Pascoe recruited nearly all the squad...and Madge has picked the same core players no matter what...

Yet it is 'not' his fault?

He is paid to coach / improve them.

He is paid to make them accountable.

He has had three years...but let's give him a free pass? I respect your views, but please don't complain when nothing changes.

 

[gregjm87]

Point one is fair, but, who is this mythical better coach that we could sign. So often i hear supposed experts on podcasts/radio/tv saying the Tigers need a Bellamey/Bennett/Robinson type. They aren't available or aren't willing, nor would many well credentialed rookie coaches be willing to stake their whole future career on turning the club around.

As for point 2, well, some rebuilds do take time. For instance it takes time to get cap space to sign players when you are waiting for players on large contracts to leave. It takes longer still when you cant attract elite talent to take their place (be that due to the club, coach or current roster). Literally the only option remaining is to try to sign elite juniors and wait patiently for them to develop into elite players. Panthers took 5 years, Knights about the same and still not quite there.
If you know another way please enlighten us.

 

[Snake]

The club needs to employ a leader that drives success .. the current CEO brags about being laid back well this philosophy has intrenched itself right through the organisation the first person to be shown the door has to be the CEO … time for a change and someone that’s a winner!

 

[Wildcat777]

As well all know from every GF in Memory!!!! It Is about the players and their will to win, play as a team to do so. They have to be good enough and believe it so. All the other ppl involved help and facilitate in this belief.

 

[GCfan]

Just a few comments on a couple of things that have
Until we stop making excuses, we won't get out of this rut we are in. It is 'concerning' when management keeps mumbling reasons why we are not winning games...and why the coach can stay...rather than aggressively demanding success and making sure people are accountable.

Accountability is a myth in the NRL.
It starts and ends with the coach. Players rarely get dropped and if some do in an attempt to look like there’s accountability they quickly return because there’s never adequate depth. The reality is, if you’ve got an average squad like ours, dogs etc, to make players accountable you’d have to almost drop the entire squad-and for a decent amount of time. No clubs going to do that as firstly, you can’t play that many reserve graders at the same time in first grade and secondly, you saw what happens when you have too many reserve graders in a first grade team.

 

[ElleryHanley]

Point one is fair, but, who is this mythical better coach that we could sign. So often i hear supposed experts on podcasts/radio/tv saying the Tigers need a Bellamey/Bennett/Robinson type. They aren't available or aren't willing, nor would many well credentialed rookie coaches be willing to stake their whole future career on turning the club around.

As for point 2, well, some rebuilds do take time. For instance it takes time to get cap space to sign players when you are waiting for players on large contracts to leave. It takes longer still when you cant attract elite talent to take their place (be that due to the club, coach or current roster). Literally the only option remaining is to try to sign elite juniors and wait patiently for them to develop into elite players. Panthers took 5 years, Knights about the same and still not quite there.
If you know another way please enlighten us.

**Panthers and Knight both made semis whilst 'rebuilding**'...yes, they take time but they don't require a team to go a decade without making it. Not even close.

The mythical coach? There are a lot of good, young coaches. We could have been proactive six weeks ago and tried for a Ciraldo with guys like Morris and Kimorley as assistants.

Again, if you want a 4th year of Madge that is fine... but "hey, there is no one better" is not really going to get us far.

 

[GCfan]

Biggest myth is that the players are not the fault. Not sure who is out there wearing the jersey then.

Madge and Pascoe recruited nearly all the squad...and Madge has picked the same core players no matter what...

Yet it is 'not' his fault?

He is paid to coach / improve them.

He is paid to make them accountable.

He has had three years...but let's give him a free pass? I respect your views, but please don't complain when nothing changes.

Say we could sign Wayne Bennett, would we have a South’s level squad in your opinion after 3 years( considering he also had a chunk of his cap hamstrung)?

 

[ElleryHanley]

Just a few comments on a couple of things that have
Until we stop making excuses, we won't get out of this rut we are in. It is 'concerning' when management keeps mumbling reasons why we are not winning games...and why the coach can stay...rather than aggressively demanding success and making sure people are accountable.

Accountability is a myth in the NRL.
It starts and ends with the coach. Players rarely get dropped and if some do in an attempt to look like there’s accountability they quickly return because there’s never adequate depth. The reality is, if you’ve got an average squad like ours, dogs etc, to make players accountable you’d have to almost drop the entire squad-and for a decent amount of time. No clubs going to do that as firstly, you can’t play that many reserve graders at the same time in first grade and secondly, you saw what happens when you have too many reserve graders in a first grade team.

So, let's leave LL out there for 80 mins even though he is absolutely out on his feet after 30?

Let's not drop Nofa...despite him having years and years to show improved D, but still making the exact same errors?

Let's leave Brooksy to badly run the team each week?

Bennet left out Origin players this year and played state cup players...so that the senior players knew they were on notice. He dropped Sua and Mansour and picked kids. He made them accountable.

 

[Wildcat777]

Accountability? More chance of seeing a Martion in Tigers colours than seeing that at the Tigers. Good luck with that!

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Absolutely agree on the second point. Penrith were still making the semis while waiting for Cleary and gang to come through juniors.

Not sure what the answer is besides blowing the place up and starting again. Change players and coaches and nothing changes.

I like Madge but he's not getting through to the players. Would have much rathered Cini on the bench than Walters as well with Mbye to shift.

 

[StarswithStripes]

As well all know from every GF in Memory!!!! It Is about the players and their will to win, play as a team to do so. They have to be good enough and believe it so. All the other ppl involved help and facilitate in this belief.

We are told their is a lot of belief and it seems there are people facilitating that. So what appears to be missing is the will to win. I guess they are just not good enough.

 

[sheer64]

Biggest myth is that the players are not the fault. Not sure who is out there wearing the jersey then.

Madge and Pascoe recruited nearly all the squad...and Madge has picked the same core players no matter what...

Yet it is 'not' his fault?

He is paid to coach / improve them.

He is paid to make them accountable.

He has had three years...but let's give him a free pass? I respect your views, but please don't complain when nothing changes.

The joys of being a Wests Tigers supporter, we all have our opinions but have no say in the process and ultimately the result. To me this leads to complacency which I do not see in the coach, do see in the CEO and in the players, but I may be wrong as most are happy to receive their weekly checks without moving from the comfort zone.

 

[TYGA]

I think the biggest myth is the strength of the squad. It’s a bottom 2 roster slightly out playing it’s potential to be brutally honest. I know no one wants to accept that but the most important part of clubs are their heads of football and recruitment.

 

[Guest]

Absolutely agree on the second point. Penrith were still making the semis while waiting for Cleary and gang to come through juniors.

Not sure what the answer is besides blowing the place up and starting again. Change players and coaches and nothing changes.

I like Madge but he's not getting through to the players. Would have much rathered Cini on the bench than Walters as well with Mbye to shift.

That's how I would have rolled. Who out there would do a better job though? Do we give a rookie like Circaldo a shot?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Absolutely agree on the second point. Penrith were still making the semis while waiting for Cleary and gang to come through juniors.

Not sure what the answer is besides blowing the place up and starting again. Change players and coaches and nothing changes.

I like Madge but he's not getting through to the players. Would have much rathered Cini on the bench than Walters as well with Mbye to shift.

That's how I would have rolled. Who out there would do a better job though? Do we give a rookie like Circaldo a shot?

If the club is going to look at another coach, that coach would be nuts to sign on without express permission to move on any player that they don't want into he roster.

MCK, BJ, Brooks, Liddle, Garner, Roberts, Nofoaluma, Tamou are the core I would be moving on. Obviously Mbye would fit into that but he's gone anyway.

At this point I would be willing to entertain the drug cheat even. Something has to change.

 

[ElleryHanley]

I think the biggest myth is the strength of the squad. It’s a bottom 2 roster slightly out playing it’s potential to be brutally honest. I know no one wants to accept that but the most important part of clubs are their heads of football and recruitment.

I agree and disagree....

Yes, on paper it is not a top tier squad...but we have been almost injury free most weeks and some other clubs have been **decimated** with injuries.

Given our roster's health, there is no real excuse for where we are. Cronulla started a DEBUT 6 with a Newton state cup 7 today...

Sharks had 6 senior players out...there is no way we should have conceded 50.

We just can't keep making excuses. Dogs roster is atrocious, yet they got to within 6 of a full strength Knights today.

50 today is just 100% unacceptable.

 

[Alltheway]

#timetogo.
Madge it doesn’t really matter anymore I can’t motivate your team, you can’t improve their defence, you can’t improve the team as a whole.
Buck stops with the leader.
Too old fashioned yelling at players non-stop, going to the sideline with 25 to go and screaming at them, please...
Yet they let another 30 points in, #hasnoidea