UTAI - I NEED HELP TO UNDERSTAND

I want to know who it was that saw a 5 foot tall 100kg bloke and said "yeah, I'll put him on the wing". That guy must be pretty funny.

Having said that he doesn't go too bad. I prefer him in the centres though. His whole ducking and weaving thing works best in the middle of the pitch - and that's kind of what he's for. Move Ayshford to the wing - he'll be this season's Beau Ryan.

Speaking of Ayshford - would it kill him to hit the leg press once in a while? Maybe he can pull his socks up while he's at it. I mean literally
 
Utai is passed it. Granted he had a few strong games for the Tigers last year and it always great to see a short guy, with his legs pumping break out of tackles. The truth is his time of being a top class winger ended when he was at the dogs. Nofo needs opportunity in first grade. I don't buy this talk about how young and inexperienced the back three will be (Tedesco would be my fullback aswell) - they are the best three available in those individual positions and they will only get better
 
@Nate DAWG said:
Utai is passed it. Granted he had a few strong games for the Tigers last year and it always great to see a short guy, with his legs pumping break out of tackles. The truth is his time of being a top class winger ended when he was at the dogs. Nofo needs opportunity in first grade. I don't buy this talk about how young and inexperienced the back three will be (Tedesco would be my fullback aswell) - they are the best three available in those individual positions and they will only get better
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Pretty much.

I mean what's the worse a young back line can do? We loose by 52?

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_
 
Utai's game was one of the worst he has played for us, but in saying that I also believe he is past his use-by date. Yes he does hit up well usually from our own end - but I also feel this actually gives the forwards too much excuse not to do the dirty work themselves!

He might go alright as a benchy but I think we have better options there too.

Time to bring some young dynamic speed onto the wing, and get the forward to lift their workrate out of the red zone.
 
That was by far Utai's worst game for Tigers, saying "why do we pick him" as if its been a continuing trend is just stupid.

If I were coach he would be dropped this week though.
 
@snowleopard said:
Well it seems the consensus is that no one really questions his ball running value, especially kick returns and one off the ruck when the side is under pressure but :-

Due his physical limitation (height) in taking high balls
Poor positional play
Habit of getting crunched and dropping the ball on kick returns
Suspect one on one defence

It's hard to justify holding a wing position in the NRL these days, especially when wingers are targets for high/cross field bombs and the trend is for wingers to be taller rather than shorter to both minimise the chances of another player out jumping them and to represent a threat in the air when their team hoists a bomb.

Valid comments were also made about poor defence leading to poor field position and therefore increasing the potential number of bombs that can be hoisted.

IMO the only way to defend Utai on the wing against bombs is for another player to swap positions when we are under attack in our 20-30 zone but think this will cause more problems than it solves.

Solution, use Utai off the bench for his power running late in each half and have him also there as a backup in case one of the backs gets injured, although what you gain in running might be negated by his defensive capabilities. Identify a winger who is either tall or safe in the air (preferably both) , has pace and/or ability to break tackles and has good positional sense.

Any ideas on the best qualified replacement would be from current players?
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Do we need another defender in the middle of the ruck who has deficencies ??
 
@happy tiger said:
@snowleopard said:
Well it seems the consensus is that no one really questions his ball running value, especially kick returns and one off the ruck when the side is under pressure but :-

Due his physical limitation (height) in taking high balls
Poor positional play
Habit of getting crunched and dropping the ball on kick returns
Suspect one on one defence

It's hard to justify holding a wing position in the NRL these days, especially when wingers are targets for high/cross field bombs and the trend is for wingers to be taller rather than shorter to both minimise the chances of another player out jumping them and to represent a threat in the air when their team hoists a bomb.

Valid comments were also made about poor defence leading to poor field position and therefore increasing the potential number of bombs that can be hoisted.

IMO the only way to defend Utai on the wing against bombs is for another player to swap positions when we are under attack in our 20-30 zone but think this will cause more problems than it solves.

Solution, use Utai off the bench for his power running late in each half and have him also there as a backup in case one of the backs gets injured, although what you gain in running might be negated by his defensive capabilities. Identify a winger who is either tall or safe in the air (preferably both) , has pace and/or ability to break tackles and has good positional sense.

Any ideas on the best qualified replacement would be from current players?

Do we need another defender in the middle of the ruck who has deficencies ??
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Solution, use Utai off the bench for his power running late in each half and have him also there as a backup in case one of the backs gets injured, **although what you gain in running might be negated by his defensive capabilities.** Identify a winger who is either tall or safe in the air (preferably both) , has pace and/or ability to break tackles and has good positional sense.

Not sure if the bold/underline works Happy
 
Many of us are still Sheensified (myself included), we want to play everyone out of position

Lets just pick the best player in each position and if they're not the best stick in NSW Cup to improve or get rid of them

The time is now to move forward in a positive ,confident manner with no questions marks hanging over us
 
@LaT said:
That was by far Utai's worst game for Tigers, saying "why do we pick him" as if its been a continuing trend is just stupid.

If I were coach he would be dropped this week though.
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Good question. Why keep picking him ?
Trouble is Moltzen and Utai might fluke a reasonable game this week and that will give them another 5 weeks in the team.

Make the hard call Potter just pick the best player in each position each week.
 
A consistent 2 years of previous footy wasn't a "fluke".

I'm not making excuses for Monday night, he was terrible and may have reached a tipping point of his career.
 
Makes sense Happy. Just hope the STate Cup players can perform to a level that puts pressure on the NRL players positions. Doesn't help losing Bodene for 3 weeks suspended after one game on top of Groat/Gavat/Mosese as its more than half of our back up forward pack
 
@innsaneink said:
@snowleopard said:
@Goose said:
his strength is bringing the ball out of our half, he does this very well, that is why we pick him.

I think his weaknesses outweigh his strengths, but there will be plenty that support him (at least before this game)

Thanks Goose. Understand the bringing the ball back bit **but he seems to drop it a couple of times each game, usually in our 20 and it usually costs us either 1 or 2 more sets of defence and worse case a try.**

So does Manu Vatuvai, but they keep picking him too.

Its a myth it happened all last year….it happened several times, not sure how many, but tell me which winger hasnt been outleapt and scored against.
When the opposition winger has 15m run up and youre plonked in the corner of the touch in-goal and dead ball line...youre on a hiding to nothing
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Your right Ink, I would actually like to see him and Ayshford swap on the last tackle when we are on our line. He's got to be a foot taller and I think it would stop Utai being isolated. If they become aware of it and kicked shorter it would allow Ayshford a running leap. Utai could have the best vertical leap in the world but at his height he will never out jump a winger with a run up.
 
@Gothetigers said:
@innsaneink said:
@snowleopard said:
@Goose said:
his strength is bringing the ball out of our half, he does this very well, that is why we pick him.

I think his weaknesses outweigh his strengths, but there will be plenty that support him (at least before this game)

Thanks Goose. Understand the bringing the ball back bit **but he seems to drop it a couple of times each game, usually in our 20 and it usually costs us either 1 or 2 more sets of defence and worse case a try.**

So does Manu Vatuvai, but they keep picking him too.

Its a myth it happened all last year….it happened several times, not sure how many, but tell me which winger hasnt been outleapt and scored against.
When the opposition winger has 15m run up and youre plonked in the corner of the touch in-goal and dead ball line...youre on a hiding to nothing

Your right Ink, I would actually like to see him and Ayshford swap on the last tackle when we are on our line. He's got to be a foot taller and I think it would stop Utai being isolated. If they become aware of it and kicked shorter it would allow Ayshford a running leap. Utai could have the best vertical leap in the world but at his height he will never out jump a winger with a run up.
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Yeh its been done before….though for some reason its rare, coaches are averse to mid-game positional swapping....fraught with danger I guess unless communication is at its peak, and no one of our blokes were talking last week - or looking each other in the eye.
The Dogs have small wingers and they went all the way to the big one last year...they kept oppositions away from their line better than we did last year
(Dogs, 64 tries conceded - ----95 tries conc WTs)
 
Ink, i understand where you're coming from.. ofc it starts at the ruck.

but just coz we are losing the ruck doesnt mean we ignore all the other issues we have.

utai was woeful on monday, so was the rest of the team.. but utai was absolutely pathetic. he's the incument i will give him a couple more games… but i dont think he will improve much... i've always been skeptical of utai coz of his pace and height. he tries hard, but he isnt good enough.
 
Look moving people during the tackle count is fraught with danger They then start putting up bombs in the middle of the count , or aim the bombs one player in to target the switch

One of the Magpies most famous victories in the 80's targetted Parra switching Paul Taylor and Peter Sterling between fullback and halfback during the tackle count

Wouldn't it just be easier just to get someone better under the high ball

First issues first though , we need to tighten our defence first , we have so may potential targets where the opposition can score points easily that we need to fix also

The other easy solution is to keep teams out of red zone ,better field position when we have the ball , better defence ,better kick chase ,better kicking game,better and faster line speed and more urgency
 
@tig_prmz said:
Ink, i understand where you're coming from.. ofc it starts at the ruck.

but just coz we are losing the ruck doesnt mean we ignore all the other issues we have.

utai was woeful on monday, so was the rest of the team.. but utai was absolutely pathetic. he's the incument i will give him a couple more games… but i dont think he will improve much... i've always been skeptical of utai coz of his pace and height. he tries hard, but he isnt good enough.
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I agree with most of your post…..but as you said - so were the rest.
However
When the teams going good, and Utai's going well.....he **is** good enough.
There were numerous times last year he was one of our standouts if not our best.
Whether thats a reflection on our team as a whole....I tend to think it is...well, thats another debate
 
i dont think he can be the one to finish off long range tries or when we do lose the ruck, he is one of the least capable wingers to be able to diffuse the kicks. his turning around pace is bad as well.. other wingers can easily go around him.

i agree that this is not the time to kick him out, but he will/should be one of the first ones to go.

as for your "When the teams going good, and Utai's going well…..he is good enough." you're right, he's good enough... but it's gonna take a while for the team to get going and if you replace utai early, there is a VERY good chance we can get someone who is better by then
 
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