We Need To Understand The Quality Of Our Side

[Cultured_Bogan]

@Snake by all means give him a go, we obviously need to look at life after Farah, but if he breaks again?

Thinking about it it might be the time to do it, because if he does break down again, then it's time to think about aggressively chasing another quality hooker.

Liddle made a massive difference when he came on. Our attack suddenly clicked and we made several breaks and half breaks which he set up. His delivery was good, defence was fine. He needs to play more and more each week and we'll then see if we need to sign a starting hooker or a backup one.

Not denying his ability. I have never bagged his ability. I do question his durability though.

 

[Geo]

We need to understand that if we just keep doing the same thing with the same players we will get the same result.

Its time for changes, who cares if we make changes and miss the 8, its better than just going through the motions and missing the 8.

Are you talking about week to week changes or the roster as a whole...?

@jirskyr made a very good post above since 2016 Wests have churned through 29 players in turning over the roster with probably only 3 or 4 of them you would say are big losses for the Club..with the main one being Tedesco. throw in Addo-Carr probably Woods and Slimey..the rest are meh..

They has also been a shift in signing development players from other junior area's with Smith and McIntyre last year and Madden, Talau, Bradley and Cini this year rather than trying to find the next Teddy from within...

It comes down to attitude for me..the team that beat the Bronco's need to turn up every week..not once a month...

 

[851]

need to understand that if we just keep doing the same thing with the same players we will get the same result.
Its time for changes, who cares if we make changes and miss the 8, its better than just going through the motions and missing the 8.

This is what I have been saying for a few years, who cares who comes in if someone is dropped, at least we are making players accountable.
As you say trotting out the same players making the same dumb mistakes every week and expecting improvement is just stupid, and we have proven a failed option

 

[bigsiro]

@851
Couldn't agree more with both of you.

 

[2005magic]

I suspect, without going through the NRL squad selected for each game per match / year, that although we have seen a large turnover in the total 30 man squads, the number of players within the main 17 remains pretty static each year. The coaches seem to settle pretty quickly for say the top 17 or 20 players and there is very little change from those names each year. The turnover churn is with the lesser players. We do seem to stick with the favoured few and no drop too much for poor performance.

Certainly at the moment WT have huge under-performers in the top 17 with Packer, Mbye, Jennings and the big problem with 5/8 and 1/2 and hooker as well.

For my 2 cents worth- promote Liddle since we have to see by halfway through season if he is worth offering extension to contract, drop Mbye and put Thompson at fullback and if Reynolds and Benji still out promote Gamble and put him at half and shift Brooks to 5/8 for a couple of games just to see.

 

[The_Patriot]

We need to understand that if we just keep doing the same thing with the same players we will get the same result.

Its time for changes, who cares if we make changes and miss the 8, its better than just going through the motions and missing the 8.

Are you talking about week to week changes or the roster as a whole...?

@jirskyr made a very good post above since 2016 Wests have churned through 29 players in turning over the roster with probably only 3 or 4 of them you would say are big losses for the Club..with the main one being Tedesco. throw in Addo-Carr probably Woods and Slimey..the rest are meh..

They has also been a shift in signing development players from other junior area's with Smith and McIntyre last year and Madden, Talau, Bradley and Cini this year rather than trying to find the next Teddy from within...

It comes down to attitude for me..the team that beat the Bronco's need to turn up every week..not once a month...

Im talking immediate changes. As in immediate accountability for the same old rubbish.

I saw Jirskyr's posts, as always its well written and he makes some good points. However he completely fails to mention that we are in that position because we have had some dead average coaches who have screwed this club. The recruitment has been below par. The place has been a mess. Give the recruitment to someone who knows what they are doing and have a little stability around the place and we might suddenly sign a better quality of player.

Lets hope Maguire gives these guys a one or two chances to improve then simply draws a line through their names and finds someone better.

Enough of finishing 9th. Its a losers mentality.

 

[Geo]

Im talking immediate changes. As in immediate accountability for the same old rubbish.

OK I get that now but hasn't Maguire dropped Packer Mikaele for a game Reynolds started the year in reserve grade Nofoaluma yet to play a game...shows to me he is a coach not afraid to make changes where he sees fit or is it because he's not dropping the players the fans want dropped..Mbye Marsters Jennings this week Brooks every other week..?

Finding someone better is not as simple as clicking the trade button in fantasy league..

Matterson I think everyone agrees was a good signing that was pre-Maguire tho..Jennings on the other hand not so much..

I agree whole heartily with your last sentence but as I said the squad has shown they are capable this year when they turn up...enough of the squad is not good enough crap..bugger next year..

 

[The_Patriot]

Im talking immediate changes. As in immediate accountability for the same old rubbish.

Finding someone better is not as simple as clicking the trade button in fantasy league..


The thing is it isnt about finding someone better. its about finding someone who will listen better or who is more deserving.

We have had enough of the same old mistakes and players putting in half efforts.

Yes im talking about Mybe, Fonua, and Brooks.

At some point the coach has to drop the so called good players too, not just the guys who make up the numbers.

 

[851]

The thing is it isnt about finding someone better. its about finding someone who will listen better or who is more deserving.
We have had enough of the same old mistakes and players putting in half efforts.
Yes im talking about Mybe, Fonua, and Brooks.
At some point the coach has to drop the so called good players too, not just the guys who make up the numbers.

Spot on, Bellamy told his players he thinks they are not up to it, and he will tap blokes on the shoulder to leave the club, and he will go find players with the hunger and passion for the club, hell that is what I want from our coach.
He expects players to have a go and follow instructions, not miss tackles and give away possession and penalties, if players can't or won't do it, then out the gate for you.
An absolutely great philosophy, accountability that's all I want, bring in young players, reserve graders, doesn't matter, sooner or later the players will get the message, coasting through games will see you moved on.

 

[Kev]

@happy_tiger he wasnt far from happy, he said it was their most complete performance all year. The only poor performer for them was Radley at 9. He killed their go forward with dreadful passing.

 

[The_Patriot]

The thing is it isnt about finding someone better. its about finding someone who will listen better or who is more deserving.
We have had enough of the same old mistakes and players putting in half efforts.
Yes im talking about Mybe, Fonua, and Brooks.
At some point the coach has to drop the so called good players too, not just the guys who make up the numbers.

Spot on, Bellamy told his players he thinks they are not up to it, and he will tap blokes on the shoulder to leave the club, and he will go find players with the hunger and passion for the club, hell that is what I want from our coach.
He expects players to have a go and follow instructions, not miss tackles and give away possession and penalties, if players can't or won't do it, then out the gate for you.
An absolutely great philosophy, accountability that's all I want, bring in young players, reserve graders, doesn't matter, sooner or later the players will get the message, coasting through games will see you moved on.

I really hope that is the direction Maguire will take us in. This club needs it

 

[jirskyr]

I think the maxim I saw some time ago here remains pretty good- replace someone leaving with someone just a little bit better. I think that is where WT falls down- that little bit better each time doesnt often get really used. Plodders to replace plodders or even worse rushed buys or contract extensions to fill hopes without thinking it through such as way too long contracts or just as bad way too expensive contracts.

Recent players in that trait- Mbye, Reynolds, Packer, McQueen, Nofuoloma, possibly Brooks.

There's more to it than that, I think.

Not just gradually purchase more quality, but have the setup and capacity to increase the talent you have/buy.

Plenty of teams buy talented footballers who do not show that talent on the field. Roosters aren't just a side with elite footballers, they are a side with all players firing at the same time, many of the supporting players who are fairly standard first-graders. I mean their bench is tradesman like at best, but they all do their job well and there's no obvious drop in standard. Hell you have this Tupouniua fellow running on, fielding bombs and throwing round-corner passes in his 3rd or 4th match.

Can anyone say with authority that Tigers have the setup to improve the players we blood or sign from other clubs? I do trust Madge I really do, but he's just started and we all know that our financials, stability, resources, facilities etc. are only just starting to trend upwards.

We've otherwise been running on the scent of an oily rag for 10 years, with cut-price coaches and Centrelink facilities. Sure running and weights are easy to come by, and players need to put in, but we also know that the difference between best and worst on-field is sometimes is not that huge a % difference off-field.

 

[happy_tiger]

There needs to be a proper clean out of the deadwood that has infected this team for far to long and I mean contracted players as well

Cool another clean out!!!

Point me in the direction of all the good players that will come to Tigers for reasons unknown, to replace the rubbish players we chucked out.

Since 2016, the following players have LEFT Wests Tigers:
Addo-Carr
Ballin
Buchanan
Cherrington
Edwards
Felise
Fine
Grant
Halatau
Justin Hunt
Littlejohn
Lovett
Milone
Slimey Fart
Frozone
Rankin
Ava
Tim Simona
Curtis Siro
Jesse Sue
Tedesco
Woods
Idris
Lolohea
McIlwrick
JMK
Bayley Siro
MWZ
Moses Suli
Godinet

That's 29 players in 3 seasons gone. You only would have kept JAC, Tedesco and Woods if you had a say in it.

There are only 10 players remaining from the 30 players that played FG in 2017. That's literally 20 players removed between the end of 2017 and the start of 2019 seasons.

Now by all means do another clean out, call it what you will, and then point me in the direction of the magical 20 new players we sign to get our roster back to the 30 as mandated by the NRL.

Probably add Curtis Sironen to the list

I think he has played pretty well at Manly ....we obviously couldn't get the best out of him