Wests Magpies may become extinct

[galahs]

I was always told Wests Leagues Campbelltown didn't put any money in for the junior rep teams and that it was all put in by Ashfield ?

Wests Ashfield + a few loyal sponsors funds all Magpies teams from Harrold Matts to NSW Cup.

Wests Leagues Club at Campbelltown doesn't fund the Wests Magpies at all. They do help support local junior leagues.

Both Wests Ashfield and Wests Campbelltown provide money to the Wests Tigers.

 

[alien]

it still amazes me that after all these years of obvious baiting that ct still drags you all into these debates

big difference between baiting and downright disregard and disrespect for one side of the merger he shouldnt be allowed to post such inflammatory stuff if he has been doing this since 2000 should he.enough already dont you think old wise smeghead.

The fact that he has been to more Magpies State Cup games than the majority of Western Suburbs fans should be a pretty good indicator as to whether he is being deliberatley disrespectful or saying things to get a rise.

You both also know that I have been to more Balmain games than most Balmain fans since the merger. I have an interest in the Balmain NSW Cup side because they are one of the Wests Tigers feeder clubs.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

You said it perfectly <gobbs.<br>All we from the Magpies side want is a little more airplay from the media to help us feel a little more included.

I wasn't saying the Tiger wasn't good for marketing. What I found offensive was what he said about the Magpie

Gobbs wrote:
"The marketing tool of the 'Tiger' was seen as far more enticing compared to a Black and White native Australian bird that was the image of the Western Suburbs Football Club. It was perceived that to ensure that the 'Wests Tigers' product was attractive it had to be threatening, ferocious and appealing to the young generation coming through that could identify with a strong, dominat animal that would defeat it's rivals."

He says he is "as black and white as they come" but he doesn't think the Magpie logo is attractive, threatening, appealing, strong, dominant. When I see the Magpie logo I don't just see a native Australian bird - I see what Western Suburbs stood for. They were the underdogs but they always fought their hardest and we had so many tough players in the past. We had spirit. That's what I see when I see the Magpies logo.

….I stated that from a marketing and business perspective. That wasn't my own personall view. And it's true. You give any new sporting fracnhise that has to become a competitive leader in a saturdated market place the choice to assume the identity of a Tiger or a Magpie and you can bet your bottom dollar what animalistic identity they will choose to represent itself as an organisation amongst its competitors. The commercial aspect weighed heavily in ensuring that the new brand would appeal to potential investors and corporate partners and its subsquently done that with Wests Tigers now most one of the most viable sporting brands in regards to its value in total cumulative sponsorship.

The 'Magpie' to me is unmatched, unrivaled and intangible. For all the reasons you have stated and so much more. However, the Magpies in Rugby League would only ever be a successful brand as the Western Suburbs Football Club, due to it's history and tradition as a Foundation Club. I firmly believe, the Magpies Brand wouldn't of been a wise, nor effective identity for the new Joint Venture entity as it wasn't going to be Western Suburbs. Hence, why the Joint-Venture Club committe went with the Tiger identity, but a new Tiger identity at that, one that did not reflect the old Balmain Tiger emblem/logo . Those responsbile for creating the 'Wests Tigers' name, identity and brand did so, so it could be established with no baggage or reference to Balmain. They went with something new, something fresh, something unique, where a new culture, image and history could be established separate from it's two parent clubs.

The sooner people - the fans, former players and especially the media stop seeing the 'Tigers' as Balmain and 'Wests' as the Magpies, the better off this club and its die hard supporters will be. The Wests Tigers are still seen, linked, though of and referenced as Balmain, when really, they shouldn't be, as it's not the same Tigers. It's a new type, a new breed of Tigers in Rugby League, as as it would have been if the Joint Venture club took on the identity of the Magpies. It would have been a different Magpies brand representing the franchise, to ensure that it was viewed, seen and acknowledged differently than Western Suburbs. But like my original post was trying to highlight from a commercial aspect, a Tiger identity was always going to be far more effective marketing tool for the Joint Venture club

Just a reminder Joint-Venture = New Entity = Wests Tigers. Forging and creating its own future.</gobbs.<br>

 

[crouching_tiger]

big difference between baiting and downright disregard and disrespect for one side of the merger he shouldnt be allowed to post such inflammatory stuff if he has been doing this since 2000 should he.enough already dont you think old wise smeghead.

The fact that he has been to more Magpies State Cup games than the majority of Western Suburbs fans should be a pretty good indicator as to whether he is being deliberatley disrespectful or saying things to get a rise.

You both also know that I have been to more Balmain games than most Balmain fans since the merger. I have an interest in the Balmain NSW Cup side because they are one of the Wests Tigers feeder clubs.

:laughing:

You come to the BRET games because you suffer from "loser syndrome"….
Because your crap team gets knocked out, you jump on the BRET bandwagon. You do it every year..
Bit like the dopes who have a 2nd and 3rd team to go for when their team don't make the finals...

 

[alien]

The fact that he has been to more Magpies State Cup games than the majority of Western Suburbs fans should be a pretty good indicator as to whether he is being deliberatley disrespectful or saying things to get a rise.

You both also know that I have been to more Balmain games than most Balmain fans since the merger. I have an interest in the Balmain NSW Cup side because they are one of the Wests Tigers feeder clubs.

:laughing:

You come to the BRET games because you suffer from "loser syndrome"….
Because your crap team gets knocked out, you jump on the BRET bandwagon. You do it every year..
Bit like the dopes who have a 2nd and 3rd team to go for when their team don't make the finals...

You know that doesn't make sense.

And it doesn't make sense because I go to alot of Balmain games BEFORE the finals.

 

[alien]

So if Wests and Balmain merge at NSW Cup level and Wests Magpies enter the Bundaberg Cup then would that mean the Campbelltown Eagles would be kicked out?

 

[Gobbs]

The NSW Cup needs to be abolished. The standard is poor, the coverage is abysmal and it just doesn't have the support nor interest to be a successful independent competition that can rival the NRL. Hopefully the Independent Commission can be established and sweep a broom through the joint, and re-install what worked best for close to 100 years. A 3 Grade Format of First Grade,Second (Reserve) Grade and Third (U/20's) Grade which will allow your Reserve Grade players being seen before a First Grade game, allowing them to actual play infront of a decent audience for what i'm sure would be a welcomed change by the players.

 

[cunno]

I remember the 3 grade approach with First grade, reserve grade, third grade then under 23's but why was this approach scrapped? was it the salary cap, the cost of travel or something else?

 

[alien]

The NSW Cup needs to be abolished. The standard is poor, the coverage is abysmal and it just doesn't have the support nor interest to be a successful independent competition that can rival the NRL. Hopefully the Independent Commission can be established and sweep a broom through the joint, and re-install what worked best for close to 100 years. A 3 Grade Format of First Grade,Second (Reserve) Grade and Third (U/20's) Grade which will allow your Reserve Grade players being seen before a First Grade game, allowing them to actual play infront of a decent audience for what i'm sure would be a welcomed change by the players.

I don't think some of the clubs want that because it means they will have to spend more money. Alot of NRL Clubs are already doing it tough financially. If we merge our 2 feeder clubs it means we will have an extra cost too.

 

[alien]

Cunno why would we need an Under 23's comp? An Under 20's comp is fine. A player who is too old for the Under 20's next year can play for Wests Magpies or Balmain Ryde Eastwood in the NSW Cup.

 

[Gobbs]

I remember the 3 grade approach with First grade, reserve grade, third grade then under 23's but why was this approach scrapped? was it the salary cap, the cost of travel or something else?

Super League and the major emphasis upon Broadcasting buggered everything up. Time to get the game under 'one' banner and let the game return to it's past glory of the 3 Grade system which will allow for a better transition for players to develop rather than being exposed and burned out too early by the rigors of First Grade which is what we are currently witnessing now.

alien, remembering that the Independent Commission is set to save the game Millions of dollars, putting an end to the numerous levels of hierachy through various bodies and competitions, making the game more streamlined with much more transperancey. the NSWRL is wasting big bucks on an imitation 'Reserve Grade' competition that lacks expsoure and support. This should have never been allowed to happen, but to the nature, ego's and stubbornness of particular individuals in respective governing bodies, it did and it continues to be a farce. Hence why the NRL, established the NYC U/20's competition.

Like i said, the sooner this Independent Commission takes shape and place, the sooner Rugby League can get back to normality, structure and benefit from returning back to a common sense approach and format of a 3 Grade System.

 

[alien]

Fair enough but Wests Tigers will still have the extra cost. That's why alot of NRL clubs in NSW use other clubs as a reserve grade side because they don't have to pay for it.

 

[Gobbs]

Fair enough but Wests Tigers will still have the extra cost. That's why alot of NRL clubs in NSW use other clubs as a reserve grade side because they don't have to pay for it.

That's where the extra or current Leagues Club funding from Balmain (Ryde-Eastwood) and Wests Ashfield may come in, rather than both licensed club's forking out Half a Million each, both may only be required to pour in around 250K each, taking pressure off both financial benefactors of the current NSW Cup sides and Wests Tigers.

 

[Geo]

Fair enough but Wests Tigers will still have the extra cost. That's why alot of NRL clubs in NSW use other clubs as a reserve grade side because they don't have to pay for it.

That's where the extra or current Leagues Club funding from Balmain (Ryde-Eastwood) and Wests Ashfield may come in, rather than both licensed club's forking out Half a Million each, both may only be required to pour in around 250K each, taking pressure off both financial benefactors of the current NSW Cup sides and Wests Tigers.

Exactly Gobbs…As far as I know only contibution Wests Tigers will make is what they currently do..ie Top 25 contracted players that play state cup are covered by a Wests Tigers contract....

Young Alien lets emotion get in the way of sense...

 

[alien]

I'm not that young. I am 30\. As far as I know Wests Ashfield are doing well and aren't having any problems funding the Wests Magpies side. If Wests Tigers aren't spending any money on the feeder clubs now and they would have to if there was to be a Wests Tigers NSW Cup team then how is that a good thing? I don't know if Ryde Eastwood wants to keep spending as much on the Balmain Ryde Eastwood side but that isn't Wests' problem. If Balmain can't afford a side in the NSW Cup then keep Wests Magpies in the NSW Cup and let that be the 1 feeder club for Wests Tigers. You know it makes sense.

 

[Gobbs]

No, what makes sense is to do away with the factional segmentation and bickering of the club's board and more importantly the fans and finally after 11 years take another solid step to becoming 'one club' a united front, rather than continuing with the hidden agenda's and worse, having fans still thinking and supporting the Joint Venture club as if it was still Balmain or Western Suburbs _(which let's be honest, is still extremely rife with individuals still refusing to acknowledge or respect either side or the Joint Venture itself as a new entity)._ Take away the stiumulus and allow this Joint Vernture club to prosper. It's important to remember, the discontinuation of Balmain and Western Suburbs in a Reserve Grade level does not spell the end to their Football Club. Both will still exist and still be 50% shareholders in the Wests Tigers Rugby League Football Pty Ltd. which to me is the most important aspect in all of this, as it will take the financial pressure off both Football Club's which can only be a positive thing for the future of both Club's and their NRL investment in Wests Tigers.

 

[alien]

I do see advantages in the 2 NSW Cup teams merging but I see more disadvantages of them merging. Financially Wests Tigers would be worse off if they merged because they would have to fund it and at the moment they aren't spending money on the feeder clubs. We will also have less room for the players that will be too old for the Under 20's next year. I guess we agree to disagree.

 

[system]

The biggest and only true advantage I see is that the combined Wests Tigers State Cup team is being touted as a complete squad of full time footballers. This obviously better defines the path to the NRL and allows players to achieve their best and have access to the best facilities

 

[mxchris69]

I'm not that young. I am 30\. As far as I know Wests Ashfield are doing well and aren't having any problems funding the Wests Magpies side. If Wests Tigers aren't spending any money on the feeder clubs now and they would have to if there was to be a Wests Tigers NSW Cup team then how is that a good thing? I don't know if Ryde Eastwood wants to keep spending as much on the Balmain Ryde Eastwood side but that isn't Wests' problem. If Balmain can't afford a side in the NSW Cup then keep Wests Magpies in the NSW Cup and let that be the 1 feeder club for Wests Tigers. You know it makes sense.

would u be saying that if wests could not afford a team? u should support both teams. balmain will never go broke we have balmain leagues club, ryde eastwood leagues club, and if we were desperate for cash im sure meriton will help out. you seem to be forgetting that we are now 2 clubs not just the magpies

 

[magpie_mania]

no, what makes sense is to do away with the factional segmentation and bickering of the club's board and more importantly the fans and finally after 11 years take another solid step to becoming 'one club' a united front, rather than continuing with the hidden agenda's and worse, having fans still thinking and supporting the joint venture club as if it was still balmain or western suburbs _(which let's be honest, is still extremely rife with individuals still refusing to acknowledge or respect either side or the joint venture itself as a new entity)._ take away the stiumulus and allow this joint vernture club to prosper. It's important to remember, the discontinuation of balmain and western suburbs in a reserve grade level does not spell the end to their football club. Both will still exist and still be 50% shareholders in the wests tigers rugby league football pty ltd. Which to me is the most important aspect in all of this, as it will take the financial pressure off both football club's which can only be a positive thing for the future of both club's and their nrl investment in wests tigers.

good post and in addition it might free up more cash for wests leagues ashfield and campbelltown to free up more cash for there harold matthews and sg ball teamsthat would still play in the magpies jersey.