cochise
Well-known member
Very well written mate, get feedback on here and send it through to the Fan Representative Group.
Wests Tigers Deep Dive of the Week
- Thread starter Jolls
- Start date
Jolls
Well-known member
There was defintely some interest here pre writing this; which prompted me to pull it together. Interest appears to have died off. I will give it a couple of days after the loss to see if we can prompt some meaningful discussion.
Cheers
BlackWhiteGold
Well-known member
Great work @Jolls , thoroughly enjoy your input.
In terms of the above dive into fan engagement, one area that's been a bug bear of mine in recent years is our club's poor digital communication with members & fans.
It's almost like our club does the bare minimum (team lists, training pics, basic reports, irregular injury updates, player/coach interviews), almost like we don't want any of our football IP getting out there.
I'll preface this to say that the quality (not so much quantity) of our social media content this year is far superior to previous years.
Two areas (not that hard to do) that can improve our digital comms is provide more information on 1, background video features on our players (to build connection) and 2, more info on NSW Cup, Jersey Flegg & junior reps.
Since we are positioned as a development club, it makes sense to build the connection between the fans/members and juniors coming through the ranks. This would also highlight to other juniors at other clubs what it's like at WT/Balmain/Wests etc.
For example, I'm a member of Hawthorn in the AFL and each week at the same time, a write-up comes out with a reviews of each player in the reserves by the coach (how they played, some stats & areas they are being told to work on in that game).
A good start for us would be if the comms team could do this for NSW Cup & Flegg, and even some background interviews on those players.
Food for thought.
Jolls
Well-known member
I defintely agree with your comments and the idea of creating laink between fans and our developemnt players is excellent. I will definitely pull both of those into a final product.
Thanks for the input.
innsaneink
Well-known member
Membership dept is woeful.
When i hear members have purchased seats and then been moved to a lesser seat without consultation, when it appears to benefit the club...thats just false pretences.
The online.process is not clear and very frustrating...been this way for a long long time
When i hear members have purchased seats and then been moved to a lesser seat without consultation, when it appears to benefit the club...thats just false pretences.
The online.process is not clear and very frustrating...been this way for a long long time
Jolls
Well-known member
I recall this being raised previously, I will add it to the membership area.
Cheers
BunganHead Tiger
Well-known member
Once again a well thought out and considered post Jolls. As a Tigers fan since 1969 I see one of our biggest failures of late has been to effectively engage with the young fan base, particularly in our South Western heartland and Inner West. Other clubs such as South Sydney and The Dogs are continually trying to infringe upon our junior catchment. Our fan demographic proves that we aren't engaging the teenagers and 20+ year olds. These will form the fan base of the future and need to be nurtured.
Unfortunately we have failed to capitalise on the success of our junior teams. The 2022 Harold Matts team should have been the catalyst for all young budding footballers that Wests Tigers are a real option for aspiring footballers. We needed to progress the careers of young players such as Large, Galvin, Miller and TDS and use this an example of what a true development club can produce. I understand that we have had changes in management and coaching personnel, and the recent increased leverage of player agents hasn't helped, but we need to show talented local footballers ( and their parents) that we provide a proven pathway to the NRL.
Whilst the emphasis on youth engagement is just the tip of the iceberg in increasing a total improved fan base, it provides our local youth with a sense of identity and aspiration. I know that @Black White Gold has been harping on our inability to do this for years, and our lack of junior player development is cringeworthy.
In short, we need to attempt to identify these youngsters and promote them as ambassadors for the club. Provide them with a sense of inclusion. Because of their youth they can relate directly with our young fan base. I know many will see flaws with this approach. Should we be pushing footballers in their teenage years as mouth pieces for Wests Tigers? Will their parents approve of their lad being utilised to promote Wests Tigers? What if the player still decides to leave the club anyway? There are many pros and cons to this suggestion.
We are in an enviable situation in that out of the Sydney based clubs, only Penrith has a larger junior league nursery. The difference between us and Penrith is that their junior player development is superior, hence their juniors want to stay and play at Penrith. We need to do likewise. Until we can provide our elite junior players with a perceived pathway and reasons to stay with the club, then we will continue to lose our cream of the crop. Once we can nurture and keep a few of our own juniors then we will turn a big corner. Success breeds success. We need our young fan base to have a winning team to follow. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.
Jolls
Well-known member
Thanks BHT, I think you are right on the mark. It is interesting to do the analysis and see how interconnected the differents strands of being a professional club are. Even the disparate aspects of player and coach development to what the fan's want. I will try to find a way to weave your thoughts into the overall response I send off the the Fan Representative Group, Cheers
Tucker
Well-known member
Its not a reflection on what you wrote mate. It is very good and I agree with it.
People are just disillusioned again currently. We had a good start this year, but its quickly going to mud.
Jolls
Well-known member
Thanks. Sorry if the comment came across as negative; it wasn't meant to be. More reflecting that there was a bit of conversation that prompted me to write it dried up. After the loss, and the Galvin news, there is clear focus elsewhere. When I get some time I will pull together what has been gathered at shoot it off the Fans Representative Group. Perhaps it will be useful to them. Cheers
BlackWhiteGold
Well-known member
You're a champion @Jolls just another thought I had on the fly. With all the disillusionment lately about our pathways given poor results across all grades & question marks on coaching and player development, it would be great for members & fans to get a regular update from Richo or Betsey or whoever on what is happening at the pathways level. Even a BTR to give us a glimpse inside the program, how our academy is set up, what specialist coaching our juniors get, what development our coaches get, which players are in the CUBS program this season ... really help us understand & connect with our pathways program.
Jolls
Well-known member
Good point and definitely worthwhile looking into I'm thinking of adding an ideas piece at the end to pool all of these ideas for the FRG to consider.
Jolls
Well-known member
Hi Team,
Find below the proposed submission, based on the imput here, for the Fan Representative Group. Any final thoughts or corrections before I send it off?
Cheers
Jolls
Engaging the Fanbase: What Do the Fans Want – and What Must Change?
Wests Tigers fans are some of the most passionate and loyal in the NRL. For over a decade, they have endured instability, underperformance, and disappointment — yet they remain. During this period the club has struggled with on-field consistency, front-office cohesion, and identity. Years of underperformance, coaching instability, and boardroom dysfunction have left fans frustrated — but still loyal. Our club continues to rank well in social media engagement and attendance relative to performance, which proves one thing: the fans are still here, still hoping, still hungry. But the cracks are still there, and the patience is waning.
There has been a distinct change of direction with the appointment of new leadership and an independent board. Despite this positive change; engagement with the fan-base is still a contentious issue. The club has historically over-engaged with the media and this was seen as a detriment to the club. While the establishment of the Fan Representative Group is a step in the right direction elements of the fan-base now feel under engaged and that West Tigers Management has under-delivered on its “Members First” approach. So, what do the fans want?
We’re not asking for miracles. We’re asking for connection, direction, transparency, and pride. Here’s what we — the fans — want, and what could change to make this club great again.
1. On-Field Effort and Accountability
We want to believe again.
We want a club that represents us, fights for us, speaks to us, and listens to us.
The heartland is still strong.
The fans are still waiting.
Now it’s time to close the gap between potential and delivery.
Potential Actions
Find below the proposed submission, based on the imput here, for the Fan Representative Group. Any final thoughts or corrections before I send it off?
Cheers
Jolls
Engaging the Fanbase: What Do the Fans Want – and What Must Change?
Wests Tigers fans are some of the most passionate and loyal in the NRL. For over a decade, they have endured instability, underperformance, and disappointment — yet they remain. During this period the club has struggled with on-field consistency, front-office cohesion, and identity. Years of underperformance, coaching instability, and boardroom dysfunction have left fans frustrated — but still loyal. Our club continues to rank well in social media engagement and attendance relative to performance, which proves one thing: the fans are still here, still hoping, still hungry. But the cracks are still there, and the patience is waning.
There has been a distinct change of direction with the appointment of new leadership and an independent board. Despite this positive change; engagement with the fan-base is still a contentious issue. The club has historically over-engaged with the media and this was seen as a detriment to the club. While the establishment of the Fan Representative Group is a step in the right direction elements of the fan-base now feel under engaged and that West Tigers Management has under-delivered on its “Members First” approach. So, what do the fans want?
We’re not asking for miracles. We’re asking for connection, direction, transparency, and pride. Here’s what we — the fans — want, and what could change to make this club great again.
1. On-Field Effort and Accountability
- We know success can’t be switched on overnight, but fans want to see effort, pride, and commitment. Even in losses, we want to see players who bleed for the jersey.
- A winning culture isn’t just about trophies — it’s about refusing to accept mediocrity.
- Leadership must own results — good or bad. That means real accountability, not PR spin.
- A vision from the top: Fans want to know what the club stands for and it is great to see Wests Tigers develop and, so far, stick to a plan that is led from the top. This vision has to include building the systems that enable ongoing success.
- Accountability: When things go wrong, fans want someone to front the media and own it. Not generic PR spin — real answers.
- “Members First” must mean more than a slogan:
- If members receive information mere seconds before the media, the principle is hollow.
- If CEO promises to respond to members, respond. If it does not warrant a response from the CEO, have one of the staff respond on his behalf. If this can’t be achieved; don’t make the statement.
- If members pay for seating only to be moved, for the benefit of the club, without consultation, that’s not putting members first.
- Fan frustration is growing — the online ticketing and membership experience remains poor and unclear.
- We need better communication from club leadership, not just on results, but on direction — particularly around player pathways and long-term planning, player injuries and estimated return dates.
- We ask the club to deliver on the simple things. Recently our CEO made a commitment on a high rating podcast to make two or three signing announcements in two to three weeks’ time. That was over five weeks ago. While fans respect that negotiations take time, and that there was a significant player issue in the midst of the process, a simple update from the club would have been enough to resolve angst and doubt as to how genuine the CEO is in relation to communication with the members.
- Social media quality has improved in 2025 — credit where it's due — but it’s still not enough.
- Fans want honest, behind-the-scenes content. Mic’d up players, real interviews, open Q&As — not fluff pieces or rehearsed soundbites.
- Other clubs are producing weekly reserve-grade reviews, junior highlights, and injury updates — why aren’t we?
- If we’re a development club, we should be promoting our juniors, sharing their stories, and showing why WT is the best place to grow.
- Our greatest untapped asset is our junior nursery — second only to Penrith in Sydney.
- Yet other clubs are infringing on our territory because we’re not engaging local youth effectively.
- The success of our 2022 Harold Matthews team should’ve been a springboard — instead, we’ve let it go cold.
- We could:
- Promote our junior stars as ambassadors (with careful support).
- Showcase pathways and progression to the NRL through regular updates and insights.
- Give parents and players reasons to believe that Wests Tigers is the best development pathway in rugby league.
- Fans are confused about our home. Leichhardt? Campbelltown? Parramatta?
- We don’t need world-class stadiums — we need a spiritual home. One that is tribal, emotional, ours.
- A clear long-term plan for home game identity is critical to rebuilding fan passion and connection.
- The Wests Tigers brand must be something we wear with pride again.
- Consistent colours. High-quality merch. Bold, modern designs.
- We need to celebrate Wests Tigers achievements — not just Balmain in ’89 or Wests in the ’70s.
- This is a new era. Let’s build it — and own it.
- The lack of information about our pathways is feeding disillusionment.
- What’s happening in the academy?
- Who’s in the CUBS program?
- What coaching and development is being provided to juniors and staff?
- Regular updates from Brett Kimmorley, Richo or Betsey would go a long way to building fan trust and excitement.
- If juniors don’t feel there’s a clear path to the NRL through Wests Tigers — they’ll leave. And they have.
We want to believe again.
We want a club that represents us, fights for us, speaks to us, and listens to us.
- We don’t need spin — we need honesty.
- We don’t demand perfection — we demand effort and direction.
- We don’t expect to win every year — we expect a club that acts like it wants to.
The heartland is still strong.
The fans are still waiting.
Now it’s time to close the gap between potential and delivery.
Potential Actions
- Monthly fan/member briefings with leadership (even via video).
- Monthly junior team updates and NSW Cup/Flegg player reviews.
- Clear roadmap for home game identity and stadium strategy.
- Regular video content with players, pathways coaches, and behind-the-scenes access.
- Better membership support and customer service.
- Identify junior ambassadors to inspire our young fan base.
WOW!!
Thanks champion @Jolls
Thanks champion @Jolls
- Monthly fan/member briefings with leadership (even via video).
- Monthly junior team updates and NSW Cup/Flegg player reviews.
- Clear roadmap for home game identity and stadium strategy.
- Regular video content with players, pathways coaches, and behind-the-scenes access.
- Better membership support and customer service.
- Identify junior ambassadors to inspire our young fan base.
Jolls
Well-known member
Hi Team,
The submission is with the FRG now. Let's see what, if any, action they take with it.
The submission is with the FRG now. Let's see what, if any, action they take with it.
Jolls
Well-known member
@Needaname, @Rock Hopper Steve you asked for it, you got it. This weeks Deep dive is on TPA's. Doing the research was quite interesting - I didn't realise how much players like Ponga and Cleary make outside of the game. The salary cap and TPAs are pretty much enforcing inequality and the only way to work your way out of it is slowly but surely. This is what I found from the Deep Dive and my conclusions. Would love to hear others thoughts.
Deep Dive 7. Third Party Agreements in the NRL. Do they promote Parity or Inequality?
The NRL has a strict but nuanced policy regarding Third Party Agreements (TPAs), designed to ensure salary cap integrity while allowing elite players to earn additional income from endorsements and personal sponsorships. Here's a deep dive into the rules, rationale, and real-world applications — including breaches.
What Are Third Party Agreements (TPAs)?
TPAs are commercial arrangements between players and companies or individuals that are not directly connected to the player's NRL club. These payments are not counted under the salary cap, provided they meet specific criteria.
NRL's Official Policy on TPAs
For a TPA to be excluded from the salary cap, it must:
Real World Examples of Legitimate TPAs
1. Johnathan Thurston – Toyota
1. Melbourne Storm (2010) – Dual Contracts & Secret TPAs
Summary
Despite the NRL’s intention to maintain a level playing field through its TPA regulations, the system disproportionately disadvantages struggling or lower-profile clubs. While TPAs are meant to operate independently of clubs and reward players for their marketability, the reality is that elite players at high-performing or high-visibility teams—like Nathan Cleary at the Penrith Panthers—are far more likely to attract lucrative deals.
This creates a cycle where successful clubs with star players attract more TPAs, allowing them to sign top talent for less and remain “under the cap”. As players can supplement their income through endorsements underperforming clubs struggle to secure or retain marquee players because they lack the commercial ecosystem to support comparable TPAs.
As a result, the very mechanism designed to preserve parity is entrenching inequality: rewarding success and marketability while concurrently punishing clubs with fewer resources or less on-field success.
Deep Dive 7. Third Party Agreements in the NRL. Do they promote Parity or Inequality?
The NRL has a strict but nuanced policy regarding Third Party Agreements (TPAs), designed to ensure salary cap integrity while allowing elite players to earn additional income from endorsements and personal sponsorships. Here's a deep dive into the rules, rationale, and real-world applications — including breaches.
What Are Third Party Agreements (TPAs)?
TPAs are commercial arrangements between players and companies or individuals that are not directly connected to the player's NRL club. These payments are not counted under the salary cap, provided they meet specific criteria.
NRL's Official Policy on TPAs
For a TPA to be excluded from the salary cap, it must:
- Be genuinely independent of the club.
- The third party cannot be a club sponsor, owner, director, or staff member.
- The club cannot negotiate, facilitate, or influence the deal.
- Be a bona fide commercial arrangement.
- The player must provide services or value to the third party (e.g. appearances, endorsements).
- Be registered with and approved by the NRL.
- Clubs must disclose known TPAs.
- Players must declare them and submit contracts for review.
- Not be used to induce or retain a player at a club.
- Level playing field: Prevent rich clubs from stockpiling talent through off-cap deals.
- Transparency: Ensures fairness and trust among clubs and fans.
- Player development: Prevents over-reliance on external money for retention.
- Star players and high performing teams attract more TPAs: Clubs in Sydney or major markets have access to more sponsors. The better preforming clubs attract more TPA’s which enable players to go to clubs on “unders” while also seeking premiership glory. This undermines the level playing field aim that the salary cap and TPA regulations set out to achieve.
- Player managers blur lines: TPAs appear independent but are club-driven in practice. Where proven these breaches are punished. However, there is a significant imposition to enforcement as the NRL relies on voluntary disclosure and whistleblowers to commence an investigation.
Type | Description | Cap Impact |
Club Contract | Salary, match payments, bonuses from the club. | Inside Cap |
Club-Sourced TPA | Commercial deal brokered or facilitated by the club. | Inside Cap |
Independent TPA | Sponsorship deal made by the player without club involvement. | Outside Cap |
1. Johnathan Thurston – Toyota
- Thurston had a personal endorsement deal with Toyota, independent of the Cowboys.
- Toyota was not a major club sponsor at the time.
- He featured in commercials and made appearances.
- Approved by the NRL as a legitimate independent TPA.
- Smith had multiple endorsements e.g. Powerade and Gillette).
- These deals were personal brand-driven, negotiated through his management.
- Counted as independent.
- Under Armour – $96 Million Brand Ambassador Deal. In August 2024, Cleary signed a landmark $96 million contract with global sportswear giant Under Armour, positioning him as their latest brand ambassador.
- EA Sports – Multimillion-Dollar Video Game Endorsement. In March 2025, Cleary secured a multimillion-dollar endorsement deal with EA Sports, becoming the face of the upcoming NRL 2026 video game.
- $66 Million Endorsement Deal with $10 Million Donation. In May 2025, Cleary finalised a $66 million endorsement contract with a prominent global brand. While specific details about the brand remain undisclosed, the deal is structured to span multiple years, encompassing various promotional activities and brand ambassador roles. This is one of the most significant TPAs in Australian rugby league history. Cleary has pledged $10 million of this sum to support a youth development initiative aimed at nurturing underprivileged athletes in Western Sydney.
- Adidas – NSW State of Origin Sponsorship Alignment. Cleary is associated with Adidas, which became the official apparel and footwear partner for the New South Wales State of Origin teams in late 2024. This partnership aligns with his role in the team and his personal brand.
- Drink West Brewery – Co-Ownership. Beyond endorsements, Cleary is a co-owner of Drink West Brewery, alongside UFC fighters Tai Tuivasa and Tyson Pedro.
1. Melbourne Storm (2010) – Dual Contracts & Secret TPAs
- Created two sets of books to hide over $3 million in payments.
- Paid players via undisclosed TPAs and side letters.
- Gross breach of cap and TPA rules.
- Result: Stripped of 2007 & 2009 premierships, fined $1.6 million, no points for season.
- Club officials arranged under-the-table TPA deals to retain players.
- They disguised club involvement and used connected parties to fund players.
- Violated transparency, independence, and inducement rules.
- Result: $1 million fine, 12-point deduction, and officials were deregistered.
- Investigated for undisclosed TPAs arranged by club figures.
- 13 breaches found involving $1.5 million over five years.
- Result: $750k fine, officials suspended.
- A former Cronulla director allegedly established a company to provide third-party agreements for players, which breached NRL rules due to its direct connection to the club.
- Outcome: $750k fine, with $500,000 suspended due to self-reporting.
Red Flag | Reason |
TPA sponsor is also a club sponsor | Creates conflict of interest |
No service provided by the player | Looks like disguised salary |
Negotiation done via club management | Club involvement taints independence |
Undeclared agreements | Breach of disclosure requirements |
Despite the NRL’s intention to maintain a level playing field through its TPA regulations, the system disproportionately disadvantages struggling or lower-profile clubs. While TPAs are meant to operate independently of clubs and reward players for their marketability, the reality is that elite players at high-performing or high-visibility teams—like Nathan Cleary at the Penrith Panthers—are far more likely to attract lucrative deals.
This creates a cycle where successful clubs with star players attract more TPAs, allowing them to sign top talent for less and remain “under the cap”. As players can supplement their income through endorsements underperforming clubs struggle to secure or retain marquee players because they lack the commercial ecosystem to support comparable TPAs.
As a result, the very mechanism designed to preserve parity is entrenching inequality: rewarding success and marketability while concurrently punishing clubs with fewer resources or less on-field success.
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Thanks Jolls.
Nathan Cleary also appears to have some sort of contract with Rexona. He appears in an add filmed at Leichhardt oval. Could be the undisclosed one you mentioned?
I guess if we see Lachie Galvin pop up on commercials in the near future we’ll know his manager managed to make up the contract difference between what we offered and he signed with the Dogs with TPAs.
For the record; I have no problems with players using their own profile to get their own endorsements; in my opinion that should be encouraged by the league not discouraged. Good on Nathan Cleary for getting those deals, after 4 rings he probably deserves it.
I’ve also noticed Luai pop up in a few more events plain clothed then what he did at the Panthers. Dare say that could be something his manager has found him since leaving the Tigers. (Westpac, Binge)
I think we all are a little concerned and unsure when the media run with stories (take Ben Hunt) for example where it is mentioned he is signed to the Broncos for $500k but it could be more with TPAs.
TPAs unless club approved (ie from a club sponsor) should not be used to beef up a players salary.
Not saying Ben Hunt is being paid this way, just it always gets suss in situations like these.
Jolls
Well-known member
I aggree, as long as the TPAs are legitimate. I suspect that many aren't though, arranged at arms length by a third party; eg, a sponsor putting an agent in contact with someone looking for a deal. Given self reporting or whistle blowers are the only mechanism for an investigation to commence it is open to being misused.
It certainly isn't a level playing field - but we only have ourselves to blame as a result of the ridiculous infighting and petty rivalries that have inhibited the club's growth. The only way off the bottom is slowly and surely.
G'day Jolls , love your work buddy. Are 3rd party deals now not capped as a % of the salary cap?. Which in the past seemed fair as all clubs played on a level playing field . If i've got it right N Cleary (rubbery figures) is pocketing at least 32 million per year on a guesstimated 5 year x 3rd party contracts. Under Armour and global brand 96 + 66 mill , etc,please explain. Find any info on WT's 3rd p/deals while doing your research for this deep dive .Don't do your head in but some feed back would be appreciated
Jolls
Well-known member
Hi @Merlot,
all of the research I have done is open source and from what I can find, as of June 2025,there is no publicly disclosed TPAs for our NRL or NRLW players. Strictly speaking TPAs are private arrangements between players and external entities, and while they must be registered with the NRL to ensure compliance with salary cap regulations, the specifics are usually confidential. The TPAs I was able to find information on come from what has been disclosed in the media. That is why I couldn't find much more on Cleary's recent $66M deal.
Luai obviously has a couple of deals going and given his personality he will probably be able to carry them through even though the Tigers aren't performing that well.
As far as I know there is no restriction on a % of salary cap, although it is an idea that has been floated, along with a limit on the number of players with TPAs in each club, as a means to try an manage the cap better.
I don't think either of those measures could be legally enforced as it is restricting the ability of a player to trade outside of the NRL. I'm certainly not up to speed at that depth on the law but that sounds right from a pub test to me.
How much Cleary earns outside of football staggered me - it is definitely not a level playing field for the clubs lower down the pecking order.
all of the research I have done is open source and from what I can find, as of June 2025,there is no publicly disclosed TPAs for our NRL or NRLW players. Strictly speaking TPAs are private arrangements between players and external entities, and while they must be registered with the NRL to ensure compliance with salary cap regulations, the specifics are usually confidential. The TPAs I was able to find information on come from what has been disclosed in the media. That is why I couldn't find much more on Cleary's recent $66M deal.
Luai obviously has a couple of deals going and given his personality he will probably be able to carry them through even though the Tigers aren't performing that well.
As far as I know there is no restriction on a % of salary cap, although it is an idea that has been floated, along with a limit on the number of players with TPAs in each club, as a means to try an manage the cap better.
I don't think either of those measures could be legally enforced as it is restricting the ability of a player to trade outside of the NRL. I'm certainly not up to speed at that depth on the law but that sounds right from a pub test to me.
How much Cleary earns outside of football staggered me - it is definitely not a level playing field for the clubs lower down the pecking order.
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