Where is the Cleanout Line in 2017?

[Tiger_Watto]

the concept many on here dont get is nevilles like above should never of been signed, extended or upgraded.

Hopefully in 2020 Tim Simona has had his breakout year?!

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

C Sironen and Lovett shall be high on the 'expandable' list, Sironen is awful even at NSW cup level :frowning:

 

[Fade_To_Black]

the concept many on here dont get is nevilles like above should never of been signed, extended or upgraded.

Hopefully in 2020 Tim Simona has had his breakout year?!

Who were we to sign up in their place originally? We don't have the spare cash to sign established stars so we make do with mainly depth signings who may or may not rise to another level. Who do you propose we sign? Interested to know who you would have lined up. Reality must be involved at some stage.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

the concept many on here dont get is nevilles like above should never of been signed, extended or upgraded.

Hopefully in 2020 Tim Simona has had his breakout year?!

Who were we to sign up in their place originally? We don't have the spare cash to sign established stars so we make do with mainly depth signings who may or may not rise to another level. Who do you propose we sign? Interested to know who you would have lined up. Reality must be involved at some stage.

reality starts in the front office…

We are beaten financially every year before a ball is kicked. Why? We think we need to have a team in some 5th division competition and we pay overs to retain stock that make us feel good because they are juniors.

We need to invest in consignment stock like Melbourne, Brisbane & Cowboys do!

 

[steve-o]

I'm a big fan of the cleanout threads…

Why cause no one ever comes up with the solution of replacements...When you shop at Go-Lo...the Reject Shop is not a step up...

:dead :dead

We should just throw our hands in the air, and give up ay? Watch the same mediocre squad get the same mediocre result next year. But it's all good, because there's always 2018… and 2019...

 

[Cosimo_Zaretti]

Why would we move littlejohn on? We need depth in the halves and he proves to fill the void well.
I can't remember him doing anything bad on the field.

Because everyone knows when your NRL squad narrowly miss out on the finals, the best solution is to sack the reserve grade halfback.

 

[Flippedy]

Farah and Cherrington are already gone, so now offload Rankin, Sirro, Brooks, Lovett & Lawrence. Bring in Taufua, Idris, Sam Williams, Eastwood, Tagatese & Moa who are all off contract. There ya go, problem solved! :mrgreen:

 

[Nelson]

Farah and Cherrington are already gone, so now offload Rankin, Sirro, Brooks, Lovett & Lawrence. Bring in Taufua, Idris, Sam Williams, Eastwood, Tagatese & Moa who are all off contract. There ya go, problem solved! :mrgreen:

Sam Williams hasn't done any better at NRL level than JLJ…they're both in the same category of decent backup halves.

 

[innsaneink]

the concept many on here dont get is nevilles like above should never of been signed, extended or upgraded.

Hopefully in 2020 Tim Simona has had his breakout year?!

Who were we to sign up in their place originally? We don't have the spare cash to sign established stars so we make do with mainly depth signings who may or may not rise to another level. Who do you propose we sign? Interested to know who you would have lined up. Reality must be involved at some stage.

reality starts in the front office…

We are beaten financially every year before a ball is kicked. Why? We think we need to have a team in some 5th division competition and we pay overs to retain stock that make us feel good because they are juniors.

We need to invest in consignment stock like Melbourne, Brisbane & Cowboys do!

Correct. the focus on a high volume of local juniors keeps members happy, warm & fuzzy….but really we are in a much different position to those teams you mentioned with half a dozen other Sydney teams chasing dollars too.
We struggle here, so juniors is it

 

[cqtiger]

It's only going to get worse for us.
The roosters have already signalled that Teddy is top of their list for 2018 and are prepared to pay >$1M a season for him.

Moses is now in that zone after having a decent year and being picked for the PMs 11\. He'll be chased hard by the top clubs and offered far more than we can match.

This is the problem with producing decent juniors. You pay overs to keep them while they are still developing and just when they start showing their proper wares in first grade, another team pinches them for a princely sum.

If we lose Teddy, Moses, Brooks or Liddle then we need to think long and hard about our junior policy.

The roosters, storm, dogs, manly and others want instant success and won't wait for half a team of juniors to develop. They save all that junior development funding to buy one or two of someone else's pride and joy.

 

[TCL]

Our juniors will and should always be a starting point for us and if we and other clubs along with the nrl don't invest there, the number of kids playing will get smaller. It's already happening.

We know the team and coach we have for 2017, some minor changes will take place but we aren't going to see any big moves? So when do we make a call on the future of the players. If we win our 8 of the 10 are we happy to see this team in 2018? Or if we then follow it up with a 6 game losing streak then what? When is the coaching and player decision made?

 

[Geo]

he call will be made on the 22nd June 2017 as it's my birthday..

:dead

 

[TCL]

he call will be made on the 22nd June 2017 as it's my birthday..

:dead

Happy birthday from now! That way should i miss it next year you won't be upset.

 

[timmings01]

It's crucial that the juniors continue to be a focus.

If tigers do well next year then there is every chance that Tedesco and others will want to stay. It isn't always about money. There is such a thing as pride in your club. Something that seems to be missing in some posters here, so you probably don't get it. lol

 

[jirskyr]

I'm a big fan of the cleanout threads…

Why cause no one ever comes up with the solution of replacements...When you shop at Go-Lo...the Reject Shop is not a step up...

:dead :dead

But the reject shop has nevile nobodies on $75k… We have our nevilles on $250-$300k contracts!

You still have to pay the Nevilles under contract and you want to replace them with cheaper Nevilles…while paying the current Nevilles to play elsewhere...you might get away with 1-2 players but not 10...

Solid recruitment strategy...By 2021 we should have a competitive side...put your hand up...there could be a job opening up in recruitment soon..

again.. :dead

I agree, some people think you can run a football club with 15 players and no Nevilles.

The reality is that Nevilledom is just opinion. Some people would argue Naiqama is actually quite a good depth buy, others would say he's played for 4 clubs and not reached any heights.

The value of contracts - pure speculation. We know that the days of back-ended super contracts are probably over, so we should see a more balanced amount of depth, but there isn't enough talent or salary cap to have top-flight options in all positions.

Re a clean-out:
Akauola
Anasta
Austin
Blair
Buchanan
Farah
Fine
Fulton
Galloway
Gavet
Halatau
Hitchcox
Koroibete
Lodge
Lulia
Paterson
Richards
Rowe
Santi
Taupau
Thompson
Cherrington
Drinkwater
Hoeter
Liolevave
Milone
Addo-Carr

All of these players (27) played since JT became coach (i.e. were contracted at least until end of 2014) and are not at the club in 2017\. How much more cleaning out does the OP want? Another 27 players over the next two seasons?

 

[galea_11]

If we cant supply the players to support Tedesco and moses how can we expect to keep em

They are topclass finals players that want to be in big games next 10yrs
storm roosters need moses big time he would lead them through next generation .

 

[TCL]

I'm a big fan of the cleanout threads…

Why cause no one ever comes up with the solution of replacements...When you shop at Go-Lo...the Reject Shop is not a step up...

:dead :dead

But the reject shop has nevile nobodies on $75k… We have our nevilles on $250-$300k contracts!

You still have to pay the Nevilles under contract and you want to replace them with cheaper Nevilles…while paying the current Nevilles to play elsewhere...you might get away with 1-2 players but not 10...

Solid recruitment strategy...By 2021 we should have a competitive side...put your hand up...there could be a job opening up in recruitment soon..

again.. :dead

I agree, some people think you can run a football club with 15 players and no Nevilles.

The reality is that Nevilledom is just opinion. Some people would argue Naiqama is actually quite a good depth buy, others would say he's played for 4 clubs and not reached any heights.

The value of contracts - pure speculation. We know that the days of back-ended super contracts are probably over, so we should see a more balanced amount of depth, but there isn't enough talent or salary cap to have top-flight options in all positions.

Re a clean-out:
Akauola
Anasta
Austin
Blair
Buchanan
Farah
Fine
Fulton
Galloway
Gavet
Halatau
Hitchcox
Koroibete
Lodge
Lulia
Paterson
Richards
Rowe
Santi
Taupau
Thompson
Cherrington
Drinkwater
Hoeter
Liolevave
Milone
Addo-Carr

All of these players (27) played since JT became coach and are not at the club in 2017\. How much more cleaning out does the OP want? Another 27 players over the next two seasons?

Wow the list is comprehensive, but not all of these players were let go, some left for other reasons ( new deals, retirement etc. and some are not even proper first graders - granted trey were in our top 25). Also just because we cleared out 27 doesn't mean that there isn't more to clean out or the leadership is wrong or our buying/selection is wrong?

My op is about when we make the call not so much about who? Early threads on the forum indicated that if we don't make the top 8 JT is out, we didn't and he is still here? (i know that it was just forum guff but this is no different.)
What I'm saying is do we have a see saw season not achieve the "sustainable football" we are going for, finish just in or outside the 8 and then make a play for a new coach and players or do we say by round X we are under performing so lets make a call, GEO suggested his Bday as the DDay, I'm cool with that.

 

[Flippedy]

Farah and Cherrington are already gone, so now offload Rankin, Sirro, Brooks, Lovett & Lawrence. Bring in Taufua, Idris, Sam Williams, Eastwood, Tagatese & Moa who are all off contract. There ya go, problem solved! :mrgreen:

Sam Williams hasn't done any better at NRL level than JLJ…they're both in the same category of decent backup halves.

Fair enough, what about Jeff Robson then? He has experience, a decent kicking and game and has been the perfect stable half foil for a couple of good play making five eighths over the years. I think he would be better paired with Moses then Brooks, tbh. They just seem to negate each other at times.

 

[Geo]

Wow the list is comprehensive, but not all of these players were let go, some left for other reasons ( new deals, retirement etc. and some are not even proper first graders - granted trey were in our top 25). Also just because we cleared out 27 doesn't mean that there isn't more to clean out or the leadership is wrong or our buying/selection is wrong?

My op is about when we make the call not so much about who? Early threads on the forum indicated that if we don't make the top 8 JT is out, we didn't and he is still here? (i know that it was just forum guff but this is no different.)
What I'm saying is do we have a see saw season not achieve the "sustainable football" we are going for, finish just in or outside the 8 and then make a play for a new coach and players or do we say by round X we are under performing so lets make a call, GEO suggested his Bday as the DDay, I'm cool with that.

Oh..it was a pseudo Sack the Coach Thread …nothing like getting in early....

If the season starts poorly the decision will be made early on I would imagine...It is difficult to put a time frame as a poor start to a season does not necessarily mean a poor end ...just as a great start does not guarantee great finish you only have to look at 2015 where the Knights were 4/4 ended with the spoon and the Cows starring at 0/4 and won the Comp...

As for the playing roster ..well as with most Clubs going into 2018 with the uncertainty of what the Salary Cap will be and a substantial amount players off contract not only at Wests Tigers but all Clubs those decisions will need to be start being made from November 1 this year...

 

[TCL]

Wow the list is comprehensive, but not all of these players were let go, some left for other reasons ( new deals, retirement etc. and some are not even proper first graders - granted trey were in our top 25). Also just because we cleared out 27 doesn't mean that there isn't more to clean out or the leadership is wrong or our buying/selection is wrong?

My op is about when we make the call not so much about who? Early threads on the forum indicated that if we don't make the top 8 JT is out, we didn't and he is still here? (i know that it was just forum guff but this is no different.)
What I'm saying is do we have a see saw season not achieve the "sustainable football" we are going for, finish just in or outside the 8 and then make a play for a new coach and players or do we say by round X we are under performing so lets make a call, GEO suggested his Bday as the DDay, I'm cool with that.

Oh..it was a pseudo Sack the Coach Thread …nothing like getting in early....

If the season starts poorly the decision will be made early on I would imagine...It is difficult to put a time frame as a poor start to a season does not necessarily mean a poor end ...just as a great start does not guarantee great finish you only have to look at 2015 where the Knights were 4/4 ended with the spoon and the Cows starring at 0/4 and won the Comp...

As for the playing roster ..well as with most Clubs going into 2018 with the uncertainty of what the Salary Cap will be and a substantial amount players off contract not only at Wests Tigers but all Clubs those decisions will need to be start being made from November 1 this year...

Your right, good results early doesn't mean you will finish well and visa versa and hand on heart my intention was not a "sack the coach thread". It's no secret that I'm not JT's biggest fan but I am a Tigers fan and if he gets us the results we crave then he will have earnt our support and I will be his fan.

I think the landscape may change in 2018 for a lot of the clubs and if we play our cards right it could be the platform to long term success, if we falter or don't then we could be left behind and remain where we are middle to bottom of the ladder.

My thought is by round 8 if we are not at least 5 wins then decisions need to be made. If we are geniunly aiming for top 4 then what other result is acceptable? I'm not sure what the stats are but I'm sure not many teams with a less than 50% win ratio at the start of the year go on to be in the top 4?