Who should Madge's assistant coaches be for 2022?

[jirskyr]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

Also you said this yourself in 2020:

>Does anyone else agree a review needs to be undertaken into what measures were put in place by the Sharks following the peptides saga ? I would imagine if measures were in place, why was their star 19 year old centre able to use this type of drug without being detected by his coach and other professional trainers?
>
The club has a duty of care and potentially this is the end of this teenagers career. The outcome could have been potentially so much better had the club detected the use and voluntarily approached ASADA to make a deal. I think Peter Vlandys has a big decision to make about the.Sharks.

Is this the winning culture you speak of?

And I stand by what I wrote. Behaviour has been altered, their Club has changed significantly, individuals have been punished and those punishments as far as I am aware have been completed.

So when did the "winning culture" start then? Xerri only got suspended in March 2021.

 

[Lauren]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

We were hamstrung but still able to make big offers for Latrell, TPJ, JAC, Finucane etc. They just all turned us down. This ‘no cap’ argument has been created to somehow justify us missing out on pretty much every established player we’ve gone after.

It also has little to do with a coach's competence or their capabilities with man management.
The players are assets, and I would've thought promoting each of their abilities is the central duty of a coach.

(This isn't directed at you Avo) but
Don't think any of us are conveniently forgetting anything in regards to our "marquee" signings and how they've hampered the team's development - we also understand how problematic it is to the team culture and the coach's plans - however the level of professionalism on the field and direction of the club is all that matters, at the end of the day.
People keep saying no player is bigger than a club yet on the other hand will use this as an excuse to why the team isn't progressing as per required.

I agee Madge's gig has been during our most vulnerable period and it was always going to be a mammoth task. However, I believe after how demoralising it was after the IC stuff, the team are lacking the camaraderie which often comes with (team) leadership.

 

[Harvey]

Dean Pay first cab off the rank.

I would be wary of Cayless. Unusual for the roosters to let talented staff walk. They had already lost Fitzgibbon & if Cayless was rated, surely he would have stayed or gone with Fitz.

I would be chasing someone with experience (Catwright, Henry, Furner) or someone up and coming (Gardiner, Head).

 

[avocadoontoast]

Dean Pay first cab off the rank.

I would be wary of Cayless. Unusual for the roosters to let talented staff walk. They had already lost Fitzgibbon & if Cayless was rated, surely he would have stayed or gone with Fitz.

I would be chasing someone with experience (Catwright, Henry, Furner) or someone up and coming (Gardiner, Head).

Agree, I think Pay and Henry would be great

 

[Needaname]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

We were hamstrung but still able to make big offers for Latrell, TPJ, JAC, Finucane etc. They just all turned us down. This ‘no cap’ argument has been created to somehow justify us missing out on pretty much every established player we’ve gone after.

You do realise that the club only had the room to sign just ‘1’ of those mentioned players.
Had we signed Latrell, there would be no room for any others to join. ‘Granted that none of our alternative signings have had similar impact however he would of been on his own more so than at Souths.
Same goes with Finucane and TPJ. This was all before the MBye release. We only had the choice of one and subsequently both players chose to go to clubs that had already added to their recruitment for 2022.
We are no longer hamstrung. Our highest paid is our longest serving so there is the 200k cap reduction applied to either Brooks or Nofa’s salaries.
It’s been dire recruitment for the past couple of years pack but unlike previous years we have a very strong core that are coming through at the same time. A lot like 2013-2014 however the majority of our juniors those years were young props (Lodge, Ava, Sue) with
Akuola being the only backrower.
I liked our 2014 recruitment given we didn’t have a heap of coin to play with however instead of bringing in young bullish players like Taupau, Austin and Gavea we need to bring in larger number of Dean Halataus to help the young guys come through. Finucane would of been my pick over TPJ, but not a 4 year contract which is what he ended up signing.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

We were hamstrung but still able to make big offers for Latrell, TPJ, JAC, Finucane etc. They just all turned us down. This ‘no cap’ argument has been created to somehow justify us missing out on pretty much every established player we’ve gone after.

You do realise that the club only had the room to sign just ‘1’ of those mentioned players.
Had we signed Latrell, there would be no room for any others to join. ‘Granted that none of our alternative signings have had similar impact however he would of been on his own more so than at Souths.
Same goes with Finucane and TPJ. This was all before the MBye release. We only had the choice of one and subsequently both players chose to go to clubs that had already added to their recruitment for 2022.
We are no longer hamstrung. Our highest paid is our longest serving so there is the 200k cap reduction applied to either Brooks or Nofa’s salaries.
It’s been dire recruitment for the past couple of years pack but unlike previous years we have a very strong core that are coming through at the same time. A lot like 2013-2014 however the majority of our juniors those years were young props (Lodge, Ava, Sue) with
Akuola being the only backrower.
I liked our 2014 recruitment given we didn’t have a heap of coin to play with however instead of bringing in young bullish players like Taupau, Austin and Gavea we need to bring in larger number of Dean Halataus to help the young guys come through. Finucane would of been my pick over TPJ, but not a 4 year contract which is what he ended up signing.

We are still in that situation. We have $1.1m to spend next year yet we could offer (reportedly) $1.2m to Latrell. How were we hamstrung then but not now?

 

[Needaname]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

We were hamstrung but still able to make big offers for Latrell, TPJ, JAC, Finucane etc. They just all turned us down. This ‘no cap’ argument has been created to somehow justify us missing out on pretty much every established player we’ve gone after.

You do realise that the club only had the room to sign just ‘1’ of those mentioned players.
Had we signed Latrell, there would be no room for any others to join. ‘Granted that none of our alternative signings have had similar impact however he would of been on his own more so than at Souths.
Same goes with Finucane and TPJ. This was all before the MBye release. We only had the choice of one and subsequently both players chose to go to clubs that had already added to their recruitment for 2022.
We are no longer hamstrung. Our highest paid is our longest serving so there is the 200k cap reduction applied to either Brooks or Nofa’s salaries.
It’s been dire recruitment for the past couple of years pack but unlike previous years we have a very strong core that are coming through at the same time. A lot like 2013-2014 however the majority of our juniors those years were young props (Lodge, Ava, Sue) with
Akuola being the only backrower.
I liked our 2014 recruitment given we didn’t have a heap of coin to play with however instead of bringing in young bullish players like Taupau, Austin and Gavea we need to bring in larger number of Dean Halataus to help the young guys come through. Finucane would of been my pick over TPJ, but not a 4 year contract which is what he ended up signing.

We are still in that situation. We have $1.1m to spend next year yet we could offer (reportedly) $1.2m to Latrell. How were we hamstrung then but not now?

We’ve invested more in the younger players since start of 2020 including signing Doueihi as an offset of missing out on Latrell.
We wanted Latrell when we had MBye, Reynolds, Packer on the books there was only room for the 1 high paid player and at the time I would of said we had an imbalance of quality and age in the team and I’m not convinced that Latrell would of shined in that environment.
Yes we are in the same position money wise and with 3 spots available but I don’t think just 1 high paid player with 2 min wage players will improve us, we need 3 mid range senior players to complement the young talent in this squad.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

We were hamstrung but still able to make big offers for Latrell, TPJ, JAC, Finucane etc. They just all turned us down. This ‘no cap’ argument has been created to somehow justify us missing out on pretty much every established player we’ve gone after.

You do realise that the club only had the room to sign just ‘1’ of those mentioned players.
Had we signed Latrell, there would be no room for any others to join. ‘Granted that none of our alternative signings have had similar impact however he would of been on his own more so than at Souths.
Same goes with Finucane and TPJ. This was all before the MBye release. We only had the choice of one and subsequently both players chose to go to clubs that had already added to their recruitment for 2022.
We are no longer hamstrung. Our highest paid is our longest serving so there is the 200k cap reduction applied to either Brooks or Nofa’s salaries.
It’s been dire recruitment for the past couple of years pack but unlike previous years we have a very strong core that are coming through at the same time. A lot like 2013-2014 however the majority of our juniors those years were young props (Lodge, Ava, Sue) with
Akuola being the only backrower.
I liked our 2014 recruitment given we didn’t have a heap of coin to play with however instead of bringing in young bullish players like Taupau, Austin and Gavea we need to bring in larger number of Dean Halataus to help the young guys come through. Finucane would of been my pick over TPJ, but not a 4 year contract which is what he ended up signing.

We are still in that situation. We have $1.1m to spend next year yet we could offer (reportedly) $1.2m to Latrell. How were we hamstrung then but not now?

We’ve invested more in the younger players since start of 2020 including signing Doueihi as an offset of missing out on Latrell.
We wanted Latrell when we had MBye, Reynolds, Packer on the books there was only room for the 1 high paid player and at the time I would of said we had an imbalance of quality and age in the team and I’m not convinced that Latrell would of shined in that environment.
Yes we are in the same position money wise and with 3 spots available but I don’t think just 1 high paid player with 2 min wage players will improve us, we need 3 mid range senior players to complement the young talent in this squad.

The investment in youth is because we missed out on players like Latrell. We weren’t in a rebuild until we realised we couldn’t attract anyone else. I’m not saying this isn’t a good way to do things moving forward, but it was forced out of necessity.

We still have bad contracts on our books like any club. Nofo, , Tamou, Brooks and Musgrove all take up valuable cap space and they were all extended/signed under the current coach

 

[Deleted member 3518]

It’s not really scapegoating , more just an acknowledgment that at the very least Collins should never have been here in the first place , especially when the word out of south’s 5 YEARS AGO , that the game had passed him by.
Madge needs young guys with fresh ideas . The tried and true teams got demolished this year , and the ones with newly retired assistants , demolished teams .
The Peachey signing , IMO, is foreshadowing where I think most teams will move towards in the next few years , and as such hopefully , with a body shape and type of player change , this will lead to lower scoring games .
As another year of 50 point drubbings from the 1st team in the comp to the 5th team in the Comp, will lead me to probably becoming a casual fan unfortunately. I hate it . I hated super league when it came in , and I hate Vlandys ball .
I’m staying positive , but even before the Melbourne game , I was out on it . That Titans game where they went up by 24 and we came back , all in a half , is straight bollocks . That was considering a hurculean feat 5 years ago , now it’s round 16.
This is all to say I hope we hire young, hungry , and most importantly clever students of the game , otherwise I think we are in trouble . Vlandys ball is going to lead to the NRLs destruction if there isn’t a shift .

So we signed up Sheens instead?

Nah , he’s more for pathways I think . Our most proaperous period was when he was here . Even Teddy , brooks, Moses etc were all him , just residual . The last 5 years are what happens when guys who are meh at development are in charge IMO. Even if he spots the next benji at 14 years old , it’s another 4 years before we are any chance of seeing him . If that.
I think they’re 2 separate issues . One is an old eye to spit talent , the other is young ideas to maximise first grade tactics and strategies .
But hey what do I know right ?

 

[cochise]

It’s not really scapegoating , more just an acknowledgment that at the very least Collins should never have been here in the first place , especially when the word out of south’s 5 YEARS AGO , that the game had passed him by.
Madge needs young guys with fresh ideas . The tried and true teams got demolished this year , and the ones with newly retired assistants , demolished teams .
The Peachey signing , IMO, is foreshadowing where I think most teams will move towards in the next few years , and as such hopefully , with a body shape and type of player change , this will lead to lower scoring games .
As another year of 50 point drubbings from the 1st team in the comp to the 5th team in the Comp, will lead me to probably becoming a casual fan unfortunately. I hate it . I hated super league when it came in , and I hate Vlandys ball .
I’m staying positive , but even before the Melbourne game , I was out on it . That Titans game where they went up by 24 and we came back , all in a half , is straight bollocks . That was considering a hurculean feat 5 years ago , now it’s round 16.
This is all to say I hope we hire young, hungry , and most importantly clever students of the game , otherwise I think we are in trouble . Vlandys ball is going to lead to the NRLs destruction if there isn’t a shift .

So we signed up Sheens instead?

Nah , he’s more for pathways I think . Our most proaperous period was when he was here . Even Teddy , brooks, Moses etc were all him , just residual . The last 5 years are what happens when guys who are meh at development are in charge IMO. Even if he spots the next benji at 14 years old , it’s another 4 years before we are any chance of seeing him . If that.
I think they’re 2 separate issues . One is an old eye to spit talent , the other is young ideas to maximise first grade tactics and strategies .
But hey what do I know right ?

Sheens is now the director of coaching.

 

[Needaname]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

We were hamstrung but still able to make big offers for Latrell, TPJ, JAC, Finucane etc. They just all turned us down. This ‘no cap’ argument has been created to somehow justify us missing out on pretty much every established player we’ve gone after.

You do realise that the club only had the room to sign just ‘1’ of those mentioned players.
Had we signed Latrell, there would be no room for any others to join. ‘Granted that none of our alternative signings have had similar impact however he would of been on his own more so than at Souths.
Same goes with Finucane and TPJ. This was all before the MBye release. We only had the choice of one and subsequently both players chose to go to clubs that had already added to their recruitment for 2022.
We are no longer hamstrung. Our highest paid is our longest serving so there is the 200k cap reduction applied to either Brooks or Nofa’s salaries.
It’s been dire recruitment for the past couple of years pack but unlike previous years we have a very strong core that are coming through at the same time. A lot like 2013-2014 however the majority of our juniors those years were young props (Lodge, Ava, Sue) with
Akuola being the only backrower.
I liked our 2014 recruitment given we didn’t have a heap of coin to play with however instead of bringing in young bullish players like Taupau, Austin and Gavea we need to bring in larger number of Dean Halataus to help the young guys come through. Finucane would of been my pick over TPJ, but not a 4 year contract which is what he ended up signing.

We are still in that situation. We have $1.1m to spend next year yet we could offer (reportedly) $1.2m to Latrell. How were we hamstrung then but not now?

We’ve invested more in the younger players since start of 2020 including signing Doueihi as an offset of missing out on Latrell.
We wanted Latrell when we had MBye, Reynolds, Packer on the books there was only room for the 1 high paid player and at the time I would of said we had an imbalance of quality and age in the team and I’m not convinced that Latrell would of shined in that environment.
Yes we are in the same position money wise and with 3 spots available but I don’t think just 1 high paid player with 2 min wage players will improve us, we need 3 mid range senior players to complement the young talent in this squad.

The investment in youth is because we missed out on players like Latrell. We weren’t in a rebuild until we realised we couldn’t attract anyone else. I’m not saying this isn’t a good way to do things moving forward, but it was forced out of necessity.

We still have bad contracts on our books like any club. Nofo, , Tamou, Brooks and Musgrove all take up valuable cap space and they were all extended/signed under the current coach

No for me it was an investment in youth regardless. Our average squad age was extremely high in 2018/2019.
I understand not everyone sees it the same way but mid way through 2019 it was clear the team assembled by Ivan Cleary had a very limited window. Start of 2020 we would of started a rebuilding of sorts regardless.
One way would of been by spending the money to sign Latrell to add a young superstar to the team. The other way was to bring younger potential superstars in. Which we did my signing up most clubs up and coming best talents.
Sure we were forced into the second way by missing out on Latrell I accept that we failed in recruiting him. I’m just saying we wouldn’t of had any coin remaining if we ended up signing him in the first place.

 

[Needaname]

Ryan Carr is one of my choices. I get a lot of Ben Gardiner vibes about him but just has that level more of experience. A good ‘young’ voice i think would complement the playing group.
In terms of the second assistant I’d go Henry, Pay or even Flanagan.
Feel we need a balance of both new age style and old age style though.

 

[JC99]

Ryan Carr is one of my choices. I get a lot of Ben Gardiner vibes about him but just has that level more of experience. A good ‘young’ voice i think would complement the playing group.
In terms of the second assistant I’d go Henry, Pay or even Flanagan.
Feel we need a balance of both new age style and old age style though.

That's a good point I didn't think of. A younger coach might be good for the young playing group

 

[WT2K]

Ryan Carr is one of my choices. I get a lot of Ben Gardiner vibes about him but just has that level more of experience. A good ‘young’ voice i think would complement the playing group.
In terms of the second assistant I’d go Henry, Pay or even Flanagan.
Feel we need a balance of both new age style and old age style though.

Agree. Pay/Flanno + Carr or Gardiner himself if he's interested.

 

[Needaname]

Ryan Carr is one of my choices. I get a lot of Ben Gardiner vibes about him but just has that level more of experience. A good ‘young’ voice i think would complement the playing group.
In terms of the second assistant I’d go Henry, Pay or even Flanagan.
Feel we need a balance of both new age style and old age style though.

That's a good point I didn't think of. A younger coach might be good for the young playing group

Cayless could be good though. Tasked with readying the full time squad players of the roosters in 2020 without any lower tier games. Going off how well the Roosters covered for injuries and forced retirement over the past 2 years id say he did a good job with that.
Not being retained though is an issue but who knows why?

 

[Needaname]

Ryan Carr is one of my choices. I get a lot of Ben Gardiner vibes about him but just has that level more of experience. A good ‘young’ voice i think would complement the playing group.
In terms of the second assistant I’d go Henry, Pay or even Flanagan.
Feel we need a balance of both new age style and old age style though.

Agree. Pay/Flanno + Carr or Gardiner himself if he's interested.

Remember Gardiner is still involved as our KOE cup coach. If he prefers juggling part time coaching with his teaching career that’s only more beneficial for us.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Ryan Carr is one of my choices. I get a lot of Ben Gardiner vibes about him but just has that level more of experience. A good ‘young’ voice i think would complement the playing group.
In terms of the second assistant I’d go Henry, Pay or even Flanagan.
Feel we need a balance of both new age style and old age style though.

I don’t know anything about Carr but your other suggestions of Gardiner, Henry, Pay I agree with completely. Flanagan is a very good coach but he comes with a lot of baggage.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

Also you said this yourself in 2020:

>Does anyone else agree a review needs to be undertaken into what measures were put in place by the Sharks following the peptides saga ? I would imagine if measures were in place, why was their star 19 year old centre able to use this type of drug without being detected by his coach and other professional trainers?
>
The club has a duty of care and potentially this is the end of this teenagers career. The outcome could have been potentially so much better had the club detected the use and voluntarily approached ASADA to make a deal. I think Peter Vlandys has a big decision to make about the.Sharks.

Is this the winning culture you speak of?

And I stand by what I wrote. Behaviour has been altered, their Club has changed significantly, individuals have been punished and those punishments as far as I am aware have been completed.

So when did the "winning culture" start then? Xerri only got suspended in March 2021.

The Sharks are in and around the 8. They seem to be able to attract quality players and play a nice game of footy. I'd like WTs to be in that position.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three seasons!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

No no don't move the goal posts.

I wasn't comparing Cronulla to Tigers. Most teams have a better record than Tigers. You said the Sharks have a winning culture. The Sharks by themselves, not compared to Tigers or Cowboys or Dragons.

Any Tigers fan would take borderline finals... for about 3 or 4 seasons. Then we'd all get upset about not being able to improve beyond early finals exits - as the Sharks fans are doing now. They didn't change their coach because their results have been fantastic.

No WTs' fan would no how that feels because we are nowhere near early finals exits.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

It’s not really scapegoating , more just an acknowledgment that at the very least Collins should never have been here in the first place , especially when the word out of south’s 5 YEARS AGO , that the game had passed him by.
Madge needs young guys with fresh ideas . The tried and true teams got demolished this year , and the ones with newly retired assistants , demolished teams .
The Peachey signing , IMO, is foreshadowing where I think most teams will move towards in the next few years , and as such hopefully , with a body shape and type of player change , this will lead to lower scoring games .
As another year of 50 point drubbings from the 1st team in the comp to the 5th team in the Comp, will lead me to probably becoming a casual fan unfortunately. I hate it . I hated super league when it came in , and I hate Vlandys ball .
I’m staying positive , but even before the Melbourne game , I was out on it . That Titans game where they went up by 24 and we came back , all in a half , is straight bollocks . That was considering a hurculean feat 5 years ago , now it’s round 16.
This is all to say I hope we hire young, hungry , and most importantly clever students of the game , otherwise I think we are in trouble . Vlandys ball is going to lead to the NRLs destruction if there isn’t a shift .

So we signed up Sheens instead?

Nah , he’s more for pathways I think . Our most proaperous period was when he was here . Even Teddy , brooks, Moses etc were all him , just residual . The last 5 years are what happens when guys who are meh at development are in charge IMO. Even if he spots the next benji at 14 years old , it’s another 4 years before we are any chance of seeing him . If that.
I think they’re 2 separate issues . One is an old eye to spit talent , the other is young ideas to maximise first grade tactics and strategies .
But hey what do I know right ?

Sheens is now the director of coaching.

Lol see I know nothing .