Who should Madge's assistant coaches be for 2022?

[Snake]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three seasons!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

No no don't move the goal posts.

I wasn't comparing Cronulla to Tigers. Most teams have a better record than Tigers. You said the Sharks have a winning culture. The Sharks by themselves, not compared to Tigers or Cowboys or Dragons.

Any Tigers fan would take borderline finals... for about 3 or 4 seasons. Then we'd all get upset about not being able to improve beyond early finals exits - as the Sharks fans are doing now. They didn't change their coach because their results have been fantastic.

No WTs' fan would no how that feels because we are nowhere near early finals exits.

It amuses me that Tigers supporters here ridicule the Sharks for not being successful , I could only wish that our club could produce a team that competes as well weekly as the Sharks do . The tall poopy syndrome is alive and well in this place this goes with 10 seasons of failure !

 

[GNR4LIFE]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three seasons!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

No no don't move the goal posts.

I wasn't comparing Cronulla to Tigers. Most teams have a better record than Tigers. You said the Sharks have a winning culture. The Sharks by themselves, not compared to Tigers or Cowboys or Dragons.

Any Tigers fan would take borderline finals... for about 3 or 4 seasons. Then we'd all get upset about not being able to improve beyond early finals exits - as the Sharks fans are doing now. They didn't change their coach because their results have been fantastic.

No WTs' fan would no how that feels because we are nowhere near early finals exits.

It amuses me that Tigers supporters here ridicule the Sharks for not being successful , I could only wish that our club could produce a team that competes as well weekly as the Sharks do . The tall poopy syndrome is alive and well in this place this goes with 10 seasons of failure !

Not saying you are wrong, but the Sharks are far from tall Poppy’s.

 

[frullens]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

 

[Russell]

This thread has thrown up some interesting points, particularly with regards to Flanagan but IMO is skirting around the main issue.

What are the roles of the assistant coaches? This is the start and finish if the decision of who we use.

Is it for tactical input? If so I could see merit to Flanagan however there is a point of diminishing returns. How many have tactical input? Madge obviously. Sheens? Assistants? I can imagine there is a point where it’s too many voices.

Defensive structures? Possibly Pay.

Instilling toughness? Opens to pay and a lots of others.

Culture? Not Flanagan.

This is the first question, the answer will flow from there.

depends if you want a winning culture or a running through the daisies with braided hair culture.

What is a winning culture. Win at all costs? Win with integrity and principles?

A "winning" culture starts with the players having the right principles and attitude. An attitude that principles dont matter and success can be short cut by taking a supplement or cheating is not a successful culture. A culture that hard work and excellence will get you there is a winning culture.

Melbourne, Roosters, Souffs, Penrith, Manly to an extent have a "winning" culture. A culture established by principles. How can you tell? Because when things go wrong, they have something solid to fall back to and maintain performance. With someone else instilled in those principles to take the place of the last guy.

How did Cronulla go with that? Did their "winning" culture stand the test of time and adversity?

They won a comp and were always strong when he was there. So, yes.

Did it last? Did it stand the test of time and adversity? No. It ran out slowly after the peptides ran out. Track Gallens minutes. He was consistently an 80minute prop for two years. That coincidentally ended at the end of Flannos reign. Because of hard work?

EDIT: Are you serious Gallagher? You would be happy to achieve the "winning" culture the way Flanagan did?

Maybe he game time/performance went down because he was in his late 30's???

He retired 2019. He was an 80min prop for two years. Guess which years.

So he had 2 good years in his career? Awesome.
We still taking about about Flanagan arnt we? His time at cronulla over 8 seasons was successful . No?

Im not questioning that. I was very specific. Are you happy to accept success at any cost, using Flanagans methods?

To cut in, what methods are you talking about ? People don’t seriously think he’ll come here and start jabbing the players with needles in the first week.

Of course not, I dont think Flanagan would ever again have a system of injecting peptides. This discussion was about what the assistants coaches role would be and what they would add. Gallagher wanted the "winning" culture that Flanagan had at Cronulla. I amerely pointing out that unlike the "winning culture" at Melbourne, Souffs, Penrith or Manly, Flanagans "winning" culture was based on something completely artificial, unsustainable and potentially killed a player. Not exactly what I would sign up for as a culture at the Wests Tigers.

It's a little funny that people are saying the winning culture Flanagan developed isn't good enough, calling it "artificial and unsustainable", whilst in the same breath alluding that Melbournes rise was somehow any different. Bellamy oversaw the greatest salary cap cheating of the modern era to form the foundations of Melbourne. The club was punished however it laid the platform for their culture to this day and allowed them to build upon it into the winning force they are now.

If Flanagans culture had kept Cronulla not just competitive but a powerhouse none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating. Winning culture only involves one thing, winning, to be judging some on their unethical methods to obtain it yet not others is laughable.

Personally I'll take any winning culture at this point for our Tigers as long as there's no danger to the players, staff or club.

Don't include me in the "none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating."

Could not care if we never won another game / or never got to the finals - if the prerequisite is to have "Flanagan" as part of the Tigers.

Do not agree with "drug cheating," "Cap cheating" or "cheating in general.

Flanagan is a cheat! No thanks.

 

[cochise]

This thread has thrown up some interesting points, particularly with regards to Flanagan but IMO is skirting around the main issue.

What are the roles of the assistant coaches? This is the start and finish if the decision of who we use.

Is it for tactical input? If so I could see merit to Flanagan however there is a point of diminishing returns. How many have tactical input? Madge obviously. Sheens? Assistants? I can imagine there is a point where it’s too many voices.

Defensive structures? Possibly Pay.

Instilling toughness? Opens to pay and a lots of others.

Culture? Not Flanagan.

This is the first question, the answer will flow from there.

depends if you want a winning culture or a running through the daisies with braided hair culture.

What is a winning culture. Win at all costs? Win with integrity and principles?

A "winning" culture starts with the players having the right principles and attitude. An attitude that principles dont matter and success can be short cut by taking a supplement or cheating is not a successful culture. A culture that hard work and excellence will get you there is a winning culture.

Melbourne, Roosters, Souffs, Penrith, Manly to an extent have a "winning" culture. A culture established by principles. How can you tell? Because when things go wrong, they have something solid to fall back to and maintain performance. With someone else instilled in those principles to take the place of the last guy.

How did Cronulla go with that? Did their "winning" culture stand the test of time and adversity?

They won a comp and were always strong when he was there. So, yes.

Did it last? Did it stand the test of time and adversity? No. It ran out slowly after the peptides ran out. Track Gallens minutes. He was consistently an 80minute prop for two years. That coincidentally ended at the end of Flannos reign. Because of hard work?

EDIT: Are you serious Gallagher? You would be happy to achieve the "winning" culture the way Flanagan did?

Maybe he game time/performance went down because he was in his late 30's???

He retired 2019. He was an 80min prop for two years. Guess which years.

So he had 2 good years in his career? Awesome.
We still taking about about Flanagan arnt we? His time at cronulla over 8 seasons was successful . No?

Im not questioning that. I was very specific. Are you happy to accept success at any cost, using Flanagans methods?

To cut in, what methods are you talking about ? People don’t seriously think he’ll come here and start jabbing the players with needles in the first week.

Of course not, I dont think Flanagan would ever again have a system of injecting peptides. This discussion was about what the assistants coaches role would be and what they would add. Gallagher wanted the "winning" culture that Flanagan had at Cronulla. I amerely pointing out that unlike the "winning culture" at Melbourne, Souffs, Penrith or Manly, Flanagans "winning" culture was based on something completely artificial, unsustainable and potentially killed a player. Not exactly what I would sign up for as a culture at the Wests Tigers.

It's a little funny that people are saying the winning culture Flanagan developed isn't good enough, calling it "artificial and unsustainable", whilst in the same breath alluding that Melbournes rise was somehow any different. Bellamy oversaw the greatest salary cap cheating of the modern era to form the foundations of Melbourne. The club was punished however it laid the platform for their culture to this day and allowed them to build upon it into the winning force they are now.

If Flanagans culture had kept Cronulla not just competitive but a powerhouse none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating. Winning culture only involves one thing, winning, to be judging some on their unethical methods to obtain it yet not others is laughable.

Personally I'll take any winning culture at this point for our Tigers as long as there's no danger to the players, staff or club.

Don't include me in the "none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating."

Could not care if we never won another game / or never got to the finals - if the prerequisite is to have "Flanagan" as part of the Tigers.

Do not agree with "drug cheating," "Cap cheating" or "cheating in general.

Flanagan is a cheat! No thanks.

Well said!

 

[gallagher]

This thread has thrown up some interesting points, particularly with regards to Flanagan but IMO is skirting around the main issue.

What are the roles of the assistant coaches? This is the start and finish if the decision of who we use.

Is it for tactical input? If so I could see merit to Flanagan however there is a point of diminishing returns. How many have tactical input? Madge obviously. Sheens? Assistants? I can imagine there is a point where it’s too many voices.

Defensive structures? Possibly Pay.

Instilling toughness? Opens to pay and a lots of others.

Culture? Not Flanagan.

This is the first question, the answer will flow from there.

depends if you want a winning culture or a running through the daisies with braided hair culture.

What is a winning culture. Win at all costs? Win with integrity and principles?

A "winning" culture starts with the players having the right principles and attitude. An attitude that principles dont matter and success can be short cut by taking a supplement or cheating is not a successful culture. A culture that hard work and excellence will get you there is a winning culture.

Melbourne, Roosters, Souffs, Penrith, Manly to an extent have a "winning" culture. A culture established by principles. How can you tell? Because when things go wrong, they have something solid to fall back to and maintain performance. With someone else instilled in those principles to take the place of the last guy.

How did Cronulla go with that? Did their "winning" culture stand the test of time and adversity?

They won a comp and were always strong when he was there. So, yes.

Did it last? Did it stand the test of time and adversity? No. It ran out slowly after the peptides ran out. Track Gallens minutes. He was consistently an 80minute prop for two years. That coincidentally ended at the end of Flannos reign. Because of hard work?

EDIT: Are you serious Gallagher? You would be happy to achieve the "winning" culture the way Flanagan did?

Maybe he game time/performance went down because he was in his late 30's???

He retired 2019. He was an 80min prop for two years. Guess which years.

So he had 2 good years in his career? Awesome.
We still taking about about Flanagan arnt we? His time at cronulla over 8 seasons was successful . No?

Im not questioning that. I was very specific. Are you happy to accept success at any cost, using Flanagans methods?

To cut in, what methods are you talking about ? People don’t seriously think he’ll come here and start jabbing the players with needles in the first week.

Of course not, I dont think Flanagan would ever again have a system of injecting peptides. This discussion was about what the assistants coaches role would be and what they would add. Gallagher wanted the "winning" culture that Flanagan had at Cronulla. I amerely pointing out that unlike the "winning culture" at Melbourne, Souffs, Penrith or Manly, Flanagans "winning" culture was based on something completely artificial, unsustainable and potentially killed a player. Not exactly what I would sign up for as a culture at the Wests Tigers.

It's a little funny that people are saying the winning culture Flanagan developed isn't good enough, calling it "artificial and unsustainable", whilst in the same breath alluding that Melbournes rise was somehow any different. Bellamy oversaw the greatest salary cap cheating of the modern era to form the foundations of Melbourne. The club was punished however it laid the platform for their culture to this day and allowed them to build upon it into the winning force they are now.

If Flanagans culture had kept Cronulla not just competitive but a powerhouse none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating. Winning culture only involves one thing, winning, to be judging some on their unethical methods to obtain it yet not others is laughable.

Personally I'll take any winning culture at this point for our Tigers as long as there's no danger to the players, staff or club.

Don't include me in the "none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating."

Could not care if we never won another game / or never got to the finals - if the prerequisite is to have "Flanagan" as part of the Tigers.

Do not agree with "drug cheating," "Cap cheating" or "cheating in general.

Flanagan is a cheat! No thanks.

Cap cheating?

 

[Russell]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

We were hamstrung but still able to make big offers for Latrell, TPJ, JAC, Finucane etc. They just all turned us down. This ‘no cap’ argument has been created to somehow justify us missing out on pretty much every established player we’ve gone after.

Who wants those jerks

We did, but they didn’t want us.


Except for Mitchell who went to souffs because of the perceived culture the other 3 went to other clubs for more money(Overs).Our club has decided not to pay overs for players after paying overs for our entire existence with terrible results.At least we are trying something different

Where was it reported we offered less? That is a narrative that was created on here as an excuse for missing out.

Where was it reported we offered more? I do think the club have been frightened by paying more then the perceived value for a player and that has hindered our negotiations.

Payments to players are confidential, so everyone is guessing.

From memory, JAC pulled out of negotiations with us and went the Dogs.

TPJ was similar I believe, he was going to sign, but went to Dogs at the last minute?

I guess there is a bit of reading between the lines?

Finucane, did we actually make an offer? He was supposedly asking for a lot over 4 years (again from memory)?

Doesn't there appear to be a pattern?

Yes, we weren’t prepared to pay inflated prices?

History will decide if that was correct or not?

We just payed $400000 for a 31 year old bench player that played his best footy years ago. Isn't Nofo on $600000 also. So between a winger and a bench player we have lost 1 million out of our 9 million cap. Its crazy.

Nofo is not on 600k - do you just make this stuff up.

 

[Russell]

This thread has thrown up some interesting points, particularly with regards to Flanagan but IMO is skirting around the main issue.

What are the roles of the assistant coaches? This is the start and finish if the decision of who we use.

Is it for tactical input? If so I could see merit to Flanagan however there is a point of diminishing returns. How many have tactical input? Madge obviously. Sheens? Assistants? I can imagine there is a point where it’s too many voices.

Defensive structures? Possibly Pay.

Instilling toughness? Opens to pay and a lots of others.

Culture? Not Flanagan.

This is the first question, the answer will flow from there.

depends if you want a winning culture or a running through the daisies with braided hair culture.

What is a winning culture. Win at all costs? Win with integrity and principles?

A "winning" culture starts with the players having the right principles and attitude. An attitude that principles dont matter and success can be short cut by taking a supplement or cheating is not a successful culture. A culture that hard work and excellence will get you there is a winning culture.

Melbourne, Roosters, Souffs, Penrith, Manly to an extent have a "winning" culture. A culture established by principles. How can you tell? Because when things go wrong, they have something solid to fall back to and maintain performance. With someone else instilled in those principles to take the place of the last guy.

How did Cronulla go with that? Did their "winning" culture stand the test of time and adversity?

They won a comp and were always strong when he was there. So, yes.

Did it last? Did it stand the test of time and adversity? No. It ran out slowly after the peptides ran out. Track Gallens minutes. He was consistently an 80minute prop for two years. That coincidentally ended at the end of Flannos reign. Because of hard work?

EDIT: Are you serious Gallagher? You would be happy to achieve the "winning" culture the way Flanagan did?

Maybe he game time/performance went down because he was in his late 30's???

He retired 2019. He was an 80min prop for two years. Guess which years.

So he had 2 good years in his career? Awesome.
We still taking about about Flanagan arnt we? His time at cronulla over 8 seasons was successful . No?

Im not questioning that. I was very specific. Are you happy to accept success at any cost, using Flanagans methods?

To cut in, what methods are you talking about ? People don’t seriously think he’ll come here and start jabbing the players with needles in the first week.

Of course not, I dont think Flanagan would ever again have a system of injecting peptides. This discussion was about what the assistants coaches role would be and what they would add. Gallagher wanted the "winning" culture that Flanagan had at Cronulla. I amerely pointing out that unlike the "winning culture" at Melbourne, Souffs, Penrith or Manly, Flanagans "winning" culture was based on something completely artificial, unsustainable and potentially killed a player. Not exactly what I would sign up for as a culture at the Wests Tigers.

It's a little funny that people are saying the winning culture Flanagan developed isn't good enough, calling it "artificial and unsustainable", whilst in the same breath alluding that Melbournes rise was somehow any different. Bellamy oversaw the greatest salary cap cheating of the modern era to form the foundations of Melbourne. The club was punished however it laid the platform for their culture to this day and allowed them to build upon it into the winning force they are now.

If Flanagans culture had kept Cronulla not just competitive but a powerhouse none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating. Winning culture only involves one thing, winning, to be judging some on their unethical methods to obtain it yet not others is laughable.

Personally I'll take any winning culture at this point for our Tigers as long as there's no danger to the players, staff or club.

Don't include me in the "none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating."

Could not care if we never won another game / or never got to the finals - if the prerequisite is to have "Flanagan" as part of the Tigers.

Do not agree with "drug cheating," "Cap cheating" or "cheating in general.

Flanagan is a cheat! No thanks.

Cap cheating?

Was waiting for your post - guess you are bringing up Pascoe / Farah AGAIN!

 

[gallagher]

This thread has thrown up some interesting points, particularly with regards to Flanagan but IMO is skirting around the main issue.

What are the roles of the assistant coaches? This is the start and finish if the decision of who we use.

Is it for tactical input? If so I could see merit to Flanagan however there is a point of diminishing returns. How many have tactical input? Madge obviously. Sheens? Assistants? I can imagine there is a point where it’s too many voices.

Defensive structures? Possibly Pay.

Instilling toughness? Opens to pay and a lots of others.

Culture? Not Flanagan.

This is the first question, the answer will flow from there.

depends if you want a winning culture or a running through the daisies with braided hair culture.

What is a winning culture. Win at all costs? Win with integrity and principles?

A "winning" culture starts with the players having the right principles and attitude. An attitude that principles dont matter and success can be short cut by taking a supplement or cheating is not a successful culture. A culture that hard work and excellence will get you there is a winning culture.

Melbourne, Roosters, Souffs, Penrith, Manly to an extent have a "winning" culture. A culture established by principles. How can you tell? Because when things go wrong, they have something solid to fall back to and maintain performance. With someone else instilled in those principles to take the place of the last guy.

How did Cronulla go with that? Did their "winning" culture stand the test of time and adversity?

They won a comp and were always strong when he was there. So, yes.

Did it last? Did it stand the test of time and adversity? No. It ran out slowly after the peptides ran out. Track Gallens minutes. He was consistently an 80minute prop for two years. That coincidentally ended at the end of Flannos reign. Because of hard work?

EDIT: Are you serious Gallagher? You would be happy to achieve the "winning" culture the way Flanagan did?

Maybe he game time/performance went down because he was in his late 30's???

He retired 2019. He was an 80min prop for two years. Guess which years.

So he had 2 good years in his career? Awesome.
We still taking about about Flanagan arnt we? His time at cronulla over 8 seasons was successful . No?

Im not questioning that. I was very specific. Are you happy to accept success at any cost, using Flanagans methods?

To cut in, what methods are you talking about ? People don’t seriously think he’ll come here and start jabbing the players with needles in the first week.

Of course not, I dont think Flanagan would ever again have a system of injecting peptides. This discussion was about what the assistants coaches role would be and what they would add. Gallagher wanted the "winning" culture that Flanagan had at Cronulla. I amerely pointing out that unlike the "winning culture" at Melbourne, Souffs, Penrith or Manly, Flanagans "winning" culture was based on something completely artificial, unsustainable and potentially killed a player. Not exactly what I would sign up for as a culture at the Wests Tigers.

It's a little funny that people are saying the winning culture Flanagan developed isn't good enough, calling it "artificial and unsustainable", whilst in the same breath alluding that Melbournes rise was somehow any different. Bellamy oversaw the greatest salary cap cheating of the modern era to form the foundations of Melbourne. The club was punished however it laid the platform for their culture to this day and allowed them to build upon it into the winning force they are now.

If Flanagans culture had kept Cronulla not just competitive but a powerhouse none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating. Winning culture only involves one thing, winning, to be judging some on their unethical methods to obtain it yet not others is laughable.

Personally I'll take any winning culture at this point for our Tigers as long as there's no danger to the players, staff or club.

Don't include me in the "none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating."

Could not care if we never won another game / or never got to the finals - if the prerequisite is to have "Flanagan" as part of the Tigers.

Do not agree with "drug cheating," "Cap cheating" or "cheating in general.

Flanagan is a cheat! No thanks.

Cap cheating?

Was waiting for your post - guess you are bringing up Pascoe / Farah AGAIN!

Funny thing is, I'm never the one who brings up cap cheating. But I'm happy to reply to posts that do.

 

[happy_tiger]

This thread has thrown up some interesting points, particularly with regards to Flanagan but IMO is skirting around the main issue.

What are the roles of the assistant coaches? This is the start and finish if the decision of who we use.

Is it for tactical input? If so I could see merit to Flanagan however there is a point of diminishing returns. How many have tactical input? Madge obviously. Sheens? Assistants? I can imagine there is a point where it’s too many voices.

Defensive structures? Possibly Pay.

Instilling toughness? Opens to pay and a lots of others.

Culture? Not Flanagan.

This is the first question, the answer will flow from there.

depends if you want a winning culture or a running through the daisies with braided hair culture.

What is a winning culture. Win at all costs? Win with integrity and principles?

A "winning" culture starts with the players having the right principles and attitude. An attitude that principles dont matter and success can be short cut by taking a supplement or cheating is not a successful culture. A culture that hard work and excellence will get you there is a winning culture.

Melbourne, Roosters, Souffs, Penrith, Manly to an extent have a "winning" culture. A culture established by principles. How can you tell? Because when things go wrong, they have something solid to fall back to and maintain performance. With someone else instilled in those principles to take the place of the last guy.

How did Cronulla go with that? Did their "winning" culture stand the test of time and adversity?

They won a comp and were always strong when he was there. So, yes.

Did it last? Did it stand the test of time and adversity? No. It ran out slowly after the peptides ran out. Track Gallens minutes. He was consistently an 80minute prop for two years. That coincidentally ended at the end of Flannos reign. Because of hard work?

EDIT: Are you serious Gallagher? You would be happy to achieve the "winning" culture the way Flanagan did?

Maybe he game time/performance went down because he was in his late 30's???

He retired 2019. He was an 80min prop for two years. Guess which years.

So he had 2 good years in his career? Awesome.
We still taking about about Flanagan arnt we? His time at cronulla over 8 seasons was successful . No?

Im not questioning that. I was very specific. Are you happy to accept success at any cost, using Flanagans methods?

To cut in, what methods are you talking about ? People don’t seriously think he’ll come here and start jabbing the players with needles in the first week.

Of course not, I dont think Flanagan would ever again have a system of injecting peptides. This discussion was about what the assistants coaches role would be and what they would add. Gallagher wanted the "winning" culture that Flanagan had at Cronulla. I amerely pointing out that unlike the "winning culture" at Melbourne, Souffs, Penrith or Manly, Flanagans "winning" culture was based on something completely artificial, unsustainable and potentially killed a player. Not exactly what I would sign up for as a culture at the Wests Tigers.

It's a little funny that people are saying the winning culture Flanagan developed isn't good enough, calling it "artificial and unsustainable", whilst in the same breath alluding that Melbournes rise was somehow any different. Bellamy oversaw the greatest salary cap cheating of the modern era to form the foundations of Melbourne. The club was punished however it laid the platform for their culture to this day and allowed them to build upon it into the winning force they are now.

If Flanagans culture had kept Cronulla not just competitive but a powerhouse none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating. Winning culture only involves one thing, winning, to be judging some on their unethical methods to obtain it yet not others is laughable.

Personally I'll take any winning culture at this point for our Tigers as long as there's no danger to the players, staff or club.

Don't include me in the "none of us would be hesitating on his potential signing as an assistant, regardless of his cheating."

Could not care if we never won another game / or never got to the finals - if the prerequisite is to have "Flanagan" as part of the Tigers.

Do not agree with "drug cheating," "Cap cheating" or "cheating in general.

Flanagan is a cheat! No thanks.

Cap cheating?

I don't think they exceeded the cap from memory ...but they exceeded what they reported they were spending from memory ....

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.

 

[jadtiger]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.

You really need to let it go,you are like an old dog with a bone

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.


You really need to let it go,you are like an old dog with a bone

I was replying to a post! Unbelievable.

 

[jadtiger]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.


You really need to let it go,you are like an old dog with a bone

I was replying to a post! Unbelievable.

Your obsession is quite sad

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.


You really need to let it go,you are like an old dog with a bone

I was replying to a post! Unbelievable.


Your obsession is quite sad

I was replying to a post directed to me. If you don't want to read my reply, that's fine. I won't be offended.

 

[frullens]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.

If the board had no confidence in madge they would of sacked him. Can't be half in or half out. He's our coach and the only way we succeed this year is if the club backs the coach

 

[jadtiger]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.


You really need to let it go,you are like an old dog with a bone

I was replying to a post! Unbelievable.


Your obsession is quite sad

I was replying to a post directed to me. If you don't want to read my reply, that's fine. I won't be offended.

I read all posts and do not have or ever will have anyone on my ignore list(i would even read Alien's posts).It is a public forum and everyone is entitled to their beliefs even if i dont agree with them

 

[supercoach]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.

If the board had no confidence in madge they would of sacked him. Can't be half in or half out. He's our coach and the only way we succeed this year is if the club backs the coach

Maybe maybe not. Personally I think two things saved Madge’s bacon.
1..The replacement they wanted did not want the gig

2..The financial consideration of having to make a payout. Could be wrong but if we flicked Madge we were up for a substantial payout, but if we do it next year the payout is much less.

Anyway poor Madge is on a hiding to nothing next year without at least two more very good signings and even if that happened top eight would be still a pipe dream

 

[Tiger-ferret]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.

If the board had no confidence in madge they would of sacked him. Can't be half in or half out. He's our coach and the only way we succeed this year is if the club backs the coach

Maybe maybe not. Personally I think two things saved Madge’s bacon.
1..The replacement they wanted did not want the gig

2..The financial consideration of having to make a payout. Could be wrong but if we flicked Madge we were up for a substantial payout, but if we do it next year the payout is much less.

Anyway poor Madge is on a hiding to nothing next year without at least two more very good signings and even if that happened top eight would be still a pipe dream

I can only imagine if we are 0-5 next season…

 

[TheDaBoss]

The Cronulla winning culture is also based upon a very strong junior recruitment, identification, retention and development system. The Sharks also have an excellent junior training facility at Cronulla High, relocated from the grounds upon which the Woolooware Bay development was built.

To attribute the success at the Sharks soley to the use of whatever they used is incorrect. They are still a strong club in and around the top 8.

The Sharks don't have a winning culture, I'm sorry, not any more. They had a good period under Flanagan, but it's since been shown they were not only substance abusing but they were also cheating the salary cap. That's the lengths they had to go to to achieve some sustained success.

Since the peptides were turned off and they stopped cheating the cap, they are a borderline finals side who haven't won a finals match since 2018. Their previous sustained performance was under Johnny Lang, and after he left they made the finals only 5 times in 13 attemps including one wooden spoon.

Also borderline bankrupt except for last-minute sale of their swamp land for unit development. Regular unrest at head office including several CEO sackings (at one point they had appointed 3 CEOs in 12 months); on top of when their chairman got done for possession.

In fact they are so ordinary they remain Wests Tigers' second-best head-to-head opponent, despite us winning only 3 of the last 12 against them.

I'd take their 'borderline finals' finishes all the time over where we have been for the last three season!

Before you start throwing stones at other clubs, take a look at our own club.

It’s the last 10 seasons, not 3?

But don’t let facts get in the way of your bias.

We've been appalling for the last 3 season all due to the Maguire plan.

It seems the club also has very real concerns bringing in Sheens and new assistants appointed by other than Maguire.

You conveniently forget that Madge was hamstrung by cap issues, not of his doing, except BJ (who as a collaborative effort with recruitment), who most thought was a good signing at the time?

Madge is the coach, we are yet to see what role Sheens will play in it all, he won’t be taking over the team if that’s what you think? I think Madge will have a say in his new assistants, but not the only say?

When do the excuses stop! He has only had three years. It's a great gig if you can get it!

There are those that have contributed to our failure that have been at the club longer than three years. If you applied the same principles to all the stakeholders then your argument may look more rational than the vendetta you appear to have with Maguire as being the sole reason for our failure.

Accountability is now a vendetta! Three years of appalling failure which the team regressing. The club with Sheens and new assistants (appointed by other than Maguire) also appear to have very real concerns.

I think the narrative that the team is regressing is overly simple and has even be used by Lee. Yes we have gone backwards on ladder from 9th to 13th which is technically going backwards.

But when you look at our 2019 team compared to 2021 you'll see we are undergoing a full rebuild. We have gone from the oldest team in nrl to the youngest.

The young crew are progressing well (not regresisng).

Our senior players though are regressing and have been slowly been turned over (mybe packer etc). We need more astute quality senior players signings such as peachy and hastings and we'll start progressing on the ladder.

This is a results driven business and his results are extremely poor to be kind.

I would accept losses if I could see improvement in the team. We've regressed and it is time for change. The Board obviously believe change is needed so they have brought in Sheens as Director of Coaching and will appoint two new assistants. That to me is not a vote of confidence in Maguire.

If the board had no confidence in madge they would of sacked him. Can't be half in or half out. He's our coach and the only way we succeed this year is if the club backs the coach

Maybe maybe not. Personally I think two things saved Madge’s bacon.
1..The replacement they wanted did not want the gig

2..The financial consideration of having to make a payout. Could be wrong but if we flicked Madge we were up for a substantial payout, but if we do it next year the payout is much less.

Anyway poor Madge is on a hiding to nothing next year without at least two more very good signings and even if that happened top eight would be still a pipe dream

I can only imagine if we are 0-5 next season…

Dats our new signing

Owen Fyve