Would you drop BJ?

[fibrodreaming]

The fact that a high shot is accidental is irrelevant. His swinging arm made contact with the head and forced one of our best forwards off the field. The player should be suspended?

The NRL make a big song and dance about protecting the head of the players. Yet when a player is laid out they make a subjective distinction between whether the hit was intentional and accidental, which is often an unrealistic distinction.

By that I mean that a players tackling style is often predicated on the fact that if they hit the their opponent in the head they will be excused because it was "accidental", so they have no need to modify their tackling style to minimise the risk of an accidental high-shot.

The difference between Rugby and NRL is stark in this regard. I no longer watch Rugby (too boring) but I get the impression that both Tetevano and Koroisau would have been sent off for their high shots in a Rugby - "accidental" just doesn't cut it. As a consequence one rarely sees "accidental" high shots in that code.

By contrast, NRL is very permissive in this regard. For example, last night on NRL 360 it was agreed that Koroisau's hit on Lucy was "innocuous".

Things will never change while NRL journalists and supporters have this type of "macho" attitudes to high shots.

The NRL talks the talk, but that's all it is - talk !

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The fact that a high shot is accidental is irrelevant. His swinging arm made contact with the head and forced one of our best forwards off the field. The player should be suspended?

The NRL make a big song and dance about protecting the head of the players. Yet when a player is laid out they make a subjective distinction between whether the hit was intentional and accidental, which is often an unrealistic distinction.

By that I mean that a players tackling style is often predicated on the fact that if they hit the their opponent in the head they will be excused because it was "accidental", so they have no need to modify their tackling style to minimise the risk of an accidental high-shot.

The difference between Rugby and NRL is stark in this regard. I no longer watch Rugby (too boring) but I get the impression that both Tetevano and Koroisau would have been sent off for their high shots in a Rugby - "accidental" just doesn't cut it. As a consequence one rarely sees "accidental" high shots in that code.

By contrast, NRL is very permissive in this regard. For example, last night on NRL 360 it was agreed that Koroisau's hit on Lucy was "innocuous".

Things will never change while NRL journalists and supporters have this type of "macho" attitudes to high shots.

The NRL talks the talk, but that's all it is - talk !

Thanks for the reply. Protecting players from concussion should be the no 1 consideration. Losing two players in one game in this manner without punishment is unacceptable.

 

[bptiger]

bJ , only has him self to blame for his woes , but how the hell does he get 4 weeks while fonua only gets 2-3 weeks for his attack in a ref , I can’t work the NRL out , we always seem to get the worst end of the stick .

 

[BZN]

This is where we need to see someone...anyone..in the team take some leadership for the playing group.
Leilua was clearly fired up from the moment his brother went down and none of our players came forward to try and calm or change the situation.
IMO this type of behaviour is against everything we want our team to represent. Or what Madge wants our team to be.

Imo you are 100% correct @Lauren re calming Leilua down.
As @Blacknwhite said "kids got a temper. we knew it when we signed him and I guarantee Madge knew it was coming too, but gambled and lost".
Mbye as Captain should have recognised that if he knows his players.... and communicated with the bench he needs to be given a spell to calm him down.
But Mbye failed to do that so is useless as a Captain and certainly not worth the $$$ we are paying him.
Leilua committed his act of stupidity, and now we are down a player for a few weeks.
From ABC Grandstand on the weekend a caller asked if anyone on the field had the authority to give Leilua a rest on the bench prior to him losing it, and the answer was.... Yes, Mbye as Captain should have recognised Leilua was probably about to lose it and should have been able to communicate with Madge in some way to get him off pronto.

 

[BZN]

BJ would be in my team every week.

His brother copped a high shot and he gave one back.

We've missed a bit of aggression for a very long time.

I love aggression as much as anyone else but there’s a time and place to give one back ...
BJ is a knucklehead

I hear what you're saying, but it's little things like this that build a culture.

You can guarantee that next time one of our blokes cops a cheap shot, one of his team mates will be looking to square the ledger.

This is how winning teams are built.

With the greatest of respect I have to disagree.

I used to play footy (both union and league) at a pretty high level and any player that would get like BJ, we would niggle from the start to try and get penalties and get them sent off.

First grade NRL players aren't intimidated by BJ's antics because it was a one man crusade.

Sure, stand up for yourself and your team mates, but don't give away penalties and get sent off because you can't control yourself.

As a team mate, I'd be furious with Joey for doing that.

Now we've got Jennings to look forward to for the next 4 weeks because of something that occurred with 2 minutes left.

Someone already said it, but that could cost us our season.

Ok, spill the beans @weststigers Who did you play for?

 

[Russell]

if Jennings is fit then he would go to wing and Talau to centres
surely we do not blood a new centre / winger

Jennings is probably gone for the season, please understand that.

I can but pray he is gone Willow - bane of my life.

 

[Russell]

BJ has a tremendous opportunity during the next few weeks to revisit his goals, both personal and sporting. If the club works with him in managing his emotional well being, he will come back a world class centre and win some games for WT. BJ showed from the kick off how much this game meant to him. He is not a bad person, just a good person who makes mistakes. Can’t wait to see him back in the team. Expect some big things.

Do not hold your breath ..BJ has been doing this type of thing his whole career it is well documented he will not change.

Never say never.

 

[innsaneink]

This is where we need to see someone...anyone..in the team take some leadership for the playing group.
Leilua was clearly fired up from the moment his brother went down and none of our players came forward to try and calm or change the situation.
IMO this type of behaviour is against everything we want our team to represent. Or what Madge wants our team to be.

Imo you are 100% correct @Lauren re calming Leilua down.
As @Blacknwhite said "kids got a temper. we knew it when we signed him and I guarantee Madge knew it was coming too, but gambled and lost".
Mbye as Captain should have recognised that if he knows his players.... and communicated with the bench he needs to be given a spell to calm him down.
But Mbye failed to do that so is useless as a Captain and certainly not worth the $$$ we are paying him.
Leilua committed his act of stupidity, and now we are down a player for a few weeks.
From ABC Grandstand on the weekend a caller asked if anyone on the field had the authority to give Leilua a rest on the bench prior to him losing it, and the answer was.... Yes, Mbye as Captain should have recognised Leilua was probably about to lose it and should have been able to communicate with Madge in some way to get him off pronto.

Blaming Mbye is another extreme and irrational OTT suggestion, he's got enough to worry about himself without needing to keep an eye on teammates potentialyy losing it.
Maybe the trainer could've calmed him down/had a word, those in the box would've known something.could happen with him.... I said to my mate when LL got laid out BJ would probably get himself sent.....as I'm, sure many fans would've thought as well

 

[pawsandclaws1]

This is where we need to see someone...anyone..in the team take some leadership for the playing group.
Leilua was clearly fired up from the moment his brother went down and none of our players came forward to try and calm or change the situation.
IMO this type of behaviour is against everything we want our team to represent. Or what Madge wants our team to be.

Imo you are 100% correct @Lauren re calming Leilua down.
As @Blacknwhite said "kids got a temper. we knew it when we signed him and I guarantee Madge knew it was coming too, but gambled and lost".
Mbye as Captain should have recognised that if he knows his players.... and communicated with the bench he needs to be given a spell to calm him down.
But Mbye failed to do that so is useless as a Captain and certainly not worth the $$$ we are paying him.
Leilua committed his act of stupidity, and now we are down a player for a few weeks.
From ABC Grandstand on the weekend a caller asked if anyone on the field had the authority to give Leilua a rest on the bench prior to him losing it, and the answer was.... Yes, Mbye as Captain should have recognised Leilua was probably about to lose it and should have been able to communicate with Madge in some way to get him off pronto.

Blaming Mbye is another extreme and irrational OTT suggestion, he's got enough to worry about himself without needing to keep an eye on teammates potentialyy losing it.
Maybe the trainer could've calmed him down/had a word, those in the box would've known something.could happen with him.... I said to my mate when LL got laid out BJ would probably get himself sent.....as I'm, sure many fans would've thought as well

It is not irrational at all. There are many examples of leadership under adversity. The stoppage when his brother was lying on the ground and he was carrying on with Penrith players was the moment Mbye could have assessed the situation and sought advice if necessary from the trainer/Maguire. It was clear from the film he was highly agitated. This is a leader's responsibility.

 

[innsaneink]

But the incident with BJ happened what?
5 or 10 minutes later.
Mbye has a bloody game to play and focus on... He's not a childminder out there

 

[JD Tiger]

I don't get why people are saying MBye should have taken Joey off. That's the coach's job. The coach could see what was going on with joey, we all could.

I've never played the game though, not really, so maybe that's expected of a captain on the ground, but I'd never heard of that before so am not sure.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

But the incident with BJ happened what?
5 or 10 minutes later.
Mbye has a bloody game to play and focus on... He's not a childminder out there

Mbye is the captain receiving substantially more $ than a team leader making life or death decisions in Emergency or a section leader in Afghanistan. Time to put his big boy pants on.

 

[rex2ce]

I support BJ but don’t condone dog shots, interesting observation is that Kikau was in the immediate vicinity when he clouted Edwards, so we can’t say that he is stupid lol

 

[BZN]

This is where we need to see someone...anyone..in the team take some leadership for the playing group.
Leilua was clearly fired up from the moment his brother went down and none of our players came forward to try and calm or change the situation.
IMO this type of behaviour is against everything we want our team to represent. Or what Madge wants our team to be.

Imo you are 100% correct @Lauren re calming Leilua down.
As @Blacknwhite said "kids got a temper. we knew it when we signed him and I guarantee Madge knew it was coming too, but gambled and lost".
Mbye as Captain should have recognised that if he knows his players.... and communicated with the bench he needs to be given a spell to calm him down.
But Mbye failed to do that so is useless as a Captain and certainly not worth the $$$ we are paying him.
Leilua committed his act of stupidity, and now we are down a player for a few weeks.
From ABC Grandstand on the weekend a caller asked if anyone on the field had the authority to give Leilua a rest on the bench prior to him losing it, and the answer was.... Yes, Mbye as Captain should have recognised Leilua was probably about to lose it and should have been able to communicate with Madge in some way to get him off pronto.

Blaming Mbye is another extreme and irrational OTT suggestion, he's got enough to worry about himself without needing to keep an eye on teammates potentialyy losing it.
Maybe the trainer could've calmed him down/had a word, those in the box would've known something.could happen with him.... I said to my mate when LL got laid out BJ would probably get himself sent.....as I'm, sure many fans would've thought as well

Yep, fair enough @innsaneink but isn't it a pity that 'someone' didn't realise what was very possibly about to happen....as he had been displaying irrational behaviour for a while before his brain explosion....and take the responsibility of getting him of the field to have a calming word with him to cool him down, then send him back out to vent his anger in a positive way by smashing a Penriff player legitimately.
Surely that has to be good and positive player management?
So Imo Madge or someone else is just as responsible as Leilua for us being without an important and very necessary cog in our team.
By the way....Luke Lewis did say Leilua should go for 16 weeks, but later retracted that as he was only reacting to the apparent gravity of the incident occurring at that time.
He went on to say 4 weeks would be sufficient.

 

[Tim Sheens]

… I said to my mate when LL got laid out BJ would probably get himself sent…as I’m, sure many fans would’ve thought as well

And that is why many believe the captain should have had a word to him, if not off his own bat, then upon instructions from off the field. That there was ample opportunity to address his temper after he first became heated with the push and shove when Lucy was being treated long after the incident, for mine makes it even more pertinent as minutes passed.

 

[BZN]

But the incident with BJ happened what?
5 or 10 minutes later.
Mbye has a bloody game to play and focus on... He's not a childminder out there

No he's not a child minder @innsaneink it's called good and responsible man/player and team management....have you never heard of that?

 

[TrueTiger]

But the incident with BJ happened what?
5 or 10 minutes later.
Mbye has a bloody game to play and focus on... He's not a childminder out there

No he's not a child minder @innsaneink it's called good and responsible man/player and team management....have you never heard of that?

To be honest Magpies 1963,as soon as BJ showed aggression toward the players in the manner he was showing, Madge should have hooked him,not Mbye saying things to him because BJ could have told him to get stuffed....

 

[Tigers_Tale]

bJ , only has him self to blame for his woes , but how the hell does he get 4 weeks while fonua only gets 2-3 weeks for his attack in a ref , I can’t work the NRL out , we always seem to get the worst end of the stick .

I cannot work it out either, other players in the past have been given at least 4 weeks for less abusing remarks than what Fonua said. Also, Penrith players were responsible for two Tiger players leaving the field for hits to an opponents head, yet receive no punishment. BJ gets 4 weeks for a dumb act, which actually caused no injury. Edwards faked it , he bounced up as soon as they received the penalty.

 

[innsaneink]

But the incident with BJ happened what?
5 or 10 minutes later.
Mbye has a bloody game to play and focus on... He's not a childminder out there

Mbye is the captain receiving substantially more $ than a team leader making life or death decisions in Emergency or a section leader in Afghanistan. Time to put his big boy pants on.

Its not his role.... Not sure what relevance your comparison has... Just more irrational OTT stuff on this topic

 

[BZN]

But the incident with BJ happened what?
5 or 10 minutes later.
Mbye has a bloody game to play and focus on... He's not a childminder out there

No he's not a child minder @innsaneink it's called good and responsible man/player and team management....have you never heard of that?

To be honest Magpies 1963,as soon as BJ showed aggression toward the players in the manner he was showing, Madge should have hooked him,not Mbye saying things to him because BJ could have told him to get stuffed....

Yes very true @TrueTiger If Mbye as Captain doesn't have the respect of his players....then yes Madge should have hooked Leilua.
Re players that cause trouble on the field....I know there are a few players at least that have reformed, I just can't think of their names atm apart from I think Friend from the Roosters.
I really hope that Madge (who I feel is doing a great job for us) can put a stop to Leilua's madness, and I feel he can and will in the short term, cause we just bloomin well need him if we are to get where we deserve to be this year, and that is at least 8th spot
Then if we get there, I am confident we will knock over a couple of the pretty boy teams.