NRL admits bunker mistake

hsvjones said:
A lot on here give it to Lee H but I just listening to his interview on 2GB and it just made me feel proud that someone at the club has had enough and sticking up for us fans.... He is taking this as far as he can and sounds like he is very confident..
TBH I don't care about the points but more the principal
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Listened to Lee as well and I agree with your comments. You'd have to say the odds of our getting the incompetents at the NRL to give us the 2 points are fairly poor but if there's the slightest basis to stick it up these clowns, we have to take it. Enough is enough!
 
Wokk_ said:
Because that opens a Pandora's box - there are dud calls like that multiple times a year and that comes down to how the referee sees it at the time. If Butler had blown the penalty and we challenged and Klein decided our challenge is unsuccessful we can shout robbed till the cows come home. That's how they have interpreted it. We may be able to get it overturned because there is no rule that allows the decision to go to the bunker in the first place.
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Allowing this result to stand is what will open the Pandora's box; many others have posted the potential for this rule (challenge) to now be manipulated and exploited and it is all due to this one instance because they got it wrong.

The rules are not "grey" - there is a rule book for a reason and it is their job to know it cover to cover.

According to anyone who knows the rules (ironically this doesn't seem to include the match ref!) the game was over.

They got it wrong and should reverse the result.

It's as simple as that.

And I couldn't give a flying [INSERT SWEAR WORD HERE] (rhymes with duck) about betting agencies having to pay out to those who bet on the tigers to win (both of them!) as well as honour those for the cowboys.

That has nothing to do with what the outcome should be and honestly, does anyone really think this is going to make even a dent in bet 365's financials?! These companies are massive and if they don't have contingencies in place for this sort of thing they deserve to go broke.

I don't gamble, and have 100% no right to any opinion about people who choose to, but I'd wager (boom boom!) that a large reason these companies are so successful is because so many people have addictions that can have terrible consequences.

Whatever happens, happens, and other than sign the petition there's nothing I can do about it.

But to me it's as clear as this:
1. NRL should right their wrong. 2 points tigers.
2. Betting agencies can cry me a river... Non issue.
 
I’m extremely frustrated by the obvious favouritism by the NRL and free to air commentating to certain teams which the NRL denies. It’s blatant to me and i wouldn’t be surprised if criminal corruption was ever revealed In the future.
‘it’s a sad day after watching that game to hear my daughter who’s a fourth generation supporter say to her dad, “can we stop watching the NRL, it’s never been fair play”

in my opinion the bunker should be scrapped, I don’t have a problem with the ref, I was always ok with the on field ref making the call and sometimes getting it wrong in the heat of the moment. however to have a bunker and review committee (Ainsley) to both get it wrong after an analysis is much worse to me and stinks of something else than a human error!

id be happy to see the club protest during the next game somehow?
 
Telltails said:
Rules on the run. They know clubs can huff and puff as much as they like but it's all on again next week and the majority of fans will be well passed the indiscretions of the week before. If nothing else we may get some favourable calls in the next few weeks.
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We have been on the wrong end of bad decisions all this year and for many years prior and i can't honestly say i have seen too many in our favour(yes i am biased).There has always seemed to be an amount of bias against our JV and also the 2 clubs who created WT (88/89 grandfinals being the worst examples) of referees looking after the opposition,i didn't see the Magpies in 1963 so i can't comment on that.
This bias reached a peak when Turdberg became in charge of the NRL and it has not abated despite him being sacked from the job,Vlandy's has shown very little intent of creating an equal and fair competition and is still allowing the referee junta to rule the roost and decide the winners of games.What happened on the weekend was probably the most blatant example of the degree of incompetence/inbuilt bias that i have ever seen in my 69 years.Klein showed on the weekend why he should never be employed by the NRL in any capacity and Annesley showed yesterday why he should be sacked immediately as he is unfit to hold a position of trust.What happened yesterday was as disgraceful as what happened on Sunday during the game.
Apologies for the rant but i loathe what the game has become and the values that it holds these days.Incompetence/corruption and bum covering seems to rule and sport merely the backdrop
 
He also said the tigers cant get the 2 points because "they lost the game"
I can imagine what he and nrl officials are thinking
Why so much fuss its only the tigers for gods sake
I'm worried officials will double down in next few weeks angry because we've embarrassed them
 
incontrol said:
I also can’t believe they said nothing about the Val Holmes off siide when reviewing the escor. It was right in front of their faces.
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Nothing there bro , we don’t have to act like the NRL have and it’s true , in reality most kick offs have this element but it’s fair as long as the other 12 are behind the line when the ball is struck. We all know that .
When it comes down to clutching at straws , leave the NRL to that l there starting to get good at it.
 
jadtiger said:
We have been on the wrong end of bad decisions all this year and for many years prior and i can't honestly say i have seen too many in our favour(yes i am biased).There has always seemed to be an amount of bias against our JV and also the 2 clubs who created WT (88/89 grandfinals being the worst examples) of referees looking after the opposition,i didn't see the Magpies in 1963 so i can't comment on that.
This bias reached a peak when Turdberg became in charge of the NRL and it has not abated despite him being sacked from the job,Vlandy's has shown very little intent of creating an equal and fair competition and is still allowing the referee junta to rule the roost and decide the winners of games.What happened on the weekend was probably the most blatant example of the degree of incompetence/inbuilt bias that i have ever seen in my 69 years.Klein showed on the weekend why he should never be employed by the NRL in any capacity and Annesley showed yesterday why he should be sacked immediately as he is unfit to hold a position of trust.What happened yesterday was as disgraceful as what happened on Sunday during the game.
Apologies for the rant but i loathe what the game has become and the values that it holds these days.Incompetence/corruption and bum covering seems to rule and sport merely the backdrop
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I agree with you whole heartedly. I am hearing from others around me that people who were staunch rugby league fans are now no longer watching the game anymore. The game will never be the same all because of money, that ultimately has ruined the game from what we once knew.
 
jirskyr said:
Well he's re-writing the interpretation of the text, in my opinion.

I watched first half of Annesley's presser and Chammas (I think it is) presses him on how a challenge was awarded when no decision was made. Annesley says "there was a structured restart - the penalty" and Chammas says "yeah the bunker awarded that, but prior to that the referee just says "held", so where is the structured restart before the player raises the challenge?"

Annesley then says "look we can debate the semantics about this all day, but you will not find a black and white written interpretation that covers every incident, including yesterday".

So contrary to what 100% of fans and players have believed the past 2.5 years of captain's challenge, you can in fact challenge any play - not just a ref's decision - any play that finishes in an "end of play" or, in their words, "a structured restart".

This means you can challenge any try and the final play before any of half-time or full-time, regardless of whether or not there has been an indiscretion.

It also asks - what exactly qualifies as a structured restart? Kicks that go dead? Touch-finders? Can you challenge the play leading up to any time the ball exits the field? Are we all to now become experts on what "structured restarts" are and are not?

This therefore means any team behind by a small margin will challenge the final play of 100% of matches, because the NRL has just confirmed that there does not need to be an indiscretion to justify a challenge. If you run your final play, throw the ball out the back, put it on the toe, if it bounces around the place... if the opposition ends up with the footy and the ref calls FT, you are within your rights to challenge that entire play, so long as you have a reason that you can identify, that now compels the video ref to review the entire play back to the previous PTB.

What boggles my mind is how the NRL cannot see far enough ahead to understand the implications of what they are saying. In my profession, a significant amount of what I do is risk-management and interpretation of protocols. What this means is I am given written guidelines / instructions and part of my job is to predict the risks, the frequently-asked-questions, the inconsistencies, the probably outcomes of those instructions.

The NRL has to do the same thing, they have to think very long and hard about the implications of 16 teams, 16 coaches and some 400 players who will do anything to exploit a loophole.

And I guarantee you now, 95% of matches that conclude, so long as the losing side has a challenge, they will challenge the final "hectic" play just in case there was some unobserved infringement that might be picked up. You could say "I challenge that there was a knock-on in that play", but then technically speaking, if the bunker observes a penalisable infringement they need to blow that penalty, even if they were directed to look for knock-ons?

It's an absolute pandora's box. Teams will also now save their challenges for these last-ditch hail mary challenges.

They'll also challenge tries, which result in a structured restart, even if awarded by the ref. Because the bunker looks at the final moments of the try, but I am pretty sure the bunker does not go all the way back to the PTB to check for every possible infringement.
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Its interesting there is an article in the SMH saying that Holmes should have been penalised for the illegal kickoff. They also say that Tamou asked for a challenge to look at it and the ref told him the bunker had cleared it. So maybe technically they should penalise any previous infringement but in reality they will just do what they want to get the result they desire.
 

Fresh twist in Tigers saga: Holmes should’ve been penalised for illegal kick-off​

By Michael Chammas and Caden Helmers​

Updated July 25, 2022 — 6.24pmfirst published at 3.07pm




As the Wests Tigers await a response from the NRL over the drama that surrounded the controversial finish to Sunday’s game, a fresh twist to the saga has riled the frustrated club.
The Herald can reveal Cowboys centre Valentine Holmes should have been penalised for an illegal kick-off in the moments leading up to the controversial obstruction that decided the game.

Valentine Holmes steps over the halfway mark while kicking off.
To compound the issue, Wests Tigers skipper James Tamou tried to use their captain’s challenge to expose the breach of the rules but referee Chris Butler would not allow him the opportunity to do so.
Under the Rugby League Laws of the Game, it states: “A player who kicks off or drops-out shall be penalised if he advances in front of the appropriate line before kicking the ball”.

After the Cowboys were successful in their contentious challenge, Tamou approached referee Butler.
“Can I challenge that?” Tamou asks.

“You can’t challenge the bunker,” Butler responds.
“Challenge offside, I have a spare challenge,” Tamou said.

“They already cleared that, mate,” Butler then says.
Earlier on Monday the NRL admitted the bunker got it wrong with the contentious escort call that denied the Wests Tigers what would have been a stunning win over North Queensland on Sunday.
NRL head of football Graham Annesley has stood firm in the belief the Cowboys were within their rights to issue a captain’s challenge on the last play of the game, but conceded the final call made by the bunker was incorrect.

The Tigers had the game taken from them after the siren when the Cowboys were handed a controversial penalty.
The Cowboys trailed by one point when they claimed Tigers centre Asu Kepaoa had run winger Kyle Feldt off the ball from a kick-off with one second remaining on the clock. No penalty was awarded on the field but North Queensland captain Chad Townsend was allowed a challenge.

Bunker official Ashley Klein then opted to award a penalty to North Queensland, in turn giving Valentine Holmes a shot at a match-winning penalty goal, in a decision that has left Tigers officials seething.
“We’re just not satisfied there is enough in that incident to warrant the decision of the bunker to award a penalty,” Annesley said.
“Yes, there was contact, yes, there was a collision. We believe the Wests Tigers players involved was heading towards the ball, he didn’t look over his shoulder to see who was coming behind him. Yes, he ran a slightly strange line to head towards the ball but he was heading towards the ball.
“These are matters of judgement for the officials, but on review this morning we just don’t believe there was enough in that to award a penalty. The captain’s challenge, at that point, should have been dismissed by the bunker as an unsuccessful challenge.”
Annesley remained adamant the Cowboys were within their rights to challenge, despite no call being made by the referee on the field.

​

“You won’t find anywhere in black and white a specific rule that talks about whether you can make a challenge after time has expired on the last tackle of the game,” Annesley said.
“There is nothing in the rule that refers specifically to what took place. [Clubs] have all got a copy of the interpretations document that is updated and sent out to the clubs at the start of each year.
“I’m reading directly from it, it says ‘The captain can challenge decisions by the referee from the point of the stoppage, back to the previous play the ball or restart of play’. That element is in black and white, and they’ve all got a copy of that.”
Klein’s position will be under scrutiny before the NRL decides on its match officials for round 20, with appointments to be published on Tuesday.

“He’s been our No. 1 referee over recent months. He refereed all three Origins, he’s been operating in the bunker now for many years, he performs to a very high standard. We just don’t agree with the decision he made [on Sunday],” Annesley said.
“There is no more accountable job than officiating in the NRL. We have a history of putting our hands up when things go wrong. Where we feel there is a justification for officials to be accountable for their decisions through demotion, then those sorts of decisions will be taken.”
Tigers officials want two competition points and have told the NRL they will “explore all options” after they were denied victory in the dying seconds of Sunday’s game against the Cowboys.
“We believe the officials got it wrong, plain and simple,” Wests Tigers chief executive Justin Pascoe said.
“That decision has cost us victory and we want answers. Our players worked their backsides off all night to celebrate [James Tamou’s] 300th game, and they are to be applauded for their efforts.

“I know officials also work hard to get it right, but this in our opinion was just so wrong. I have spoken to a number of very experienced players, former players, media commentators, and our own coaching staff, and everyone agrees it was the wrong call.
“I’m not here to bash officials, I know they are doing their best, but the Bunker is there to avoid ‘howlers’. We would like an explanation from the NRL, and our members and fans deserve that.”
 
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