Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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CloudyGlock said:
Your cool with the laws in australia Earl. Thats nice.

Who enacted the laws in Australia?

Was is....

a. Doctors
b Government
c. God
d. The Stork?
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D

I'm cool with the laws being rational though. It's like you are arguing against a position that I haven't made.
 
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Winston Churchill said:
So what you are really saying is you have no answers for your side denying elections. Got it.

Should I go ahead now and post the 200 videos from YouTube of Democrats denying elections and clips of Hillary denying it for years afterwards or are we good just to leave your exposure as is?
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You can post a thousand of them if it gets you off, but it won't change the fact that she conceded the election the morning after the polls closed.

If you want to live in the fantasy land that Russia had nothing to do with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon getting elected, with Paul Manafort also heavily involved, plus the FBI getting involved in the lead up to the election had no effect, that is your choice.

Presidents normally pardon those that are deserving or have reasonably served their penalty, and most importantly, removed from any relationship with them. Whereas Trumped basically pardoned those close and/or ones that were involved in plots and scams.
 
Winston Churchill said:
There is literally a trillion videos of her saying this -

....and now she's already getting a head start on 2024......we all know how the lefties love their conspiracy theories.
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There is nothing at all like what Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon did. It's a bit bizarre what you are implying here.

Can you try and make a rational point or is that beyond you ?
 
formerguest said:
it won't change the fact that she conceded the election the morning after the polls closed.
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I want facts. If not it's just irrational dribble but that is why I can't stand Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. He does this type of stuff.

Cloudy made his point in relation to an extreme position of say a 33 week abortion. I get that there needs to be a degree of grey. I don't think he realizes he made a good point but he did.

This guy can't make rational points.

Off to bed now.
 
Earl said:
I want facts. If not it's just irrational dribble but that is why I can't stand Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon. He does this type of stuff.

Cloudy made his point in relation to an extreme position of say a 33 week abortion. I get that there needs to be a degree of grey. I don't think he realizes he made a good point but he did.

This guy can't make rational points.

Off to bed now.
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I guess its not extreme if youre a lunatic lefty. Its right down the middle of their world view. Women's rights are human rights yet a lefty cant even define what a women is, trust the science, unless its biology, BLM, except in the womb. Yeah kid, lefties arent that extreme at all. Im yet to see you make any point at all, even as illogical and irrational as an ultra far lefty can be just any point would be good for a change.

300,000 abortions a year.

"sometimes a little face comes back and stares back at you"

 
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Earl said:
D

I'm cool with the laws being rational though. It's like you are arguing against a position that I haven't made.
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Your position, which you have clearly made more than once is "Why is abortion something that the government controls" and "I don't understand why the government has to get involved in these decisions".

Then you go on and make the perfect case why Government gets involved. In 33 out of 50 states in the US doctors carry out abortions from 24 weeks up until birth. 13 states ban it and 4 states have laws similar to Aus.

If the government wasnt involved, doctors would be conducting abortions up until birth. So unless you are happy with a woman killing a full term 5kg baby, government needs to be involved.

You have further said that you like the Aussie laws (as do I). THAT IS WHY THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO BE INVOLVED.
 
Yossarian said:
I’m confused as to what your position is. At what point do you not support a woman’s right to seek a termination?
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That is the toughest question and to be completely honest its not an easy answer for me (nor IMO should it be for anyone). Most laws in Aus are between 15-22 weeks. If I had a gun held to my head and had to make a decision I'd say 12-15 weeks. Im not sure if you have kids Yoss but if you have seen the 12 week ultrasound, its a little person, beating heart, all parts formed. If I had to pick the point it would be earliest point where it becomes almost impossible for the mother not to know.

You are confused as to my position? Let me try to clarify. My point is that there IS a point at which a woman should not be able to seek an abortion for any reason other than the health of the baby or mother. Im glad I dont have the job of determining that point but IMO it should exist. It is a separate life growing inside the mother and should be protected from some point.

IMO the "her body her choice" mantra is bullshit. There is the life of the baby to consider as well (to a lesser degree probably) as the father.
 
CloudyGlock said:
You have further said that you like the Aussie laws (as do I). THAT IS WHY THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO BE INVOLVED.
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I get it. I've changed my opinion after reading what you posted. That is the point of a debate.

In stating that the point you are making is not clear cut which I like. You are focusing on the outlier cases whereas most cases don't fall into that category as per the stats provided earlier in this thread.

So we need some guidelines and those guidelines should be made into law. The problem with the extremist right wing is that don't want any abortions.

I'm hopeful you aren't that extreme.
 
CloudyGlock said:
That is the toughest question and to be completely honest its not an easy answer for me (nor IMO should it be for anyone). Most laws in Aus are between 15-22 weeks. If I had a gun held to my head and had to make a decision I'd say 12-15 weeks. Im not sure if you have kids Yoss but if you have seen the 12 week ultrasound, its a little person, beating heart, all parts formed. If I had to pick the point it would be earliest point where it becomes almost impossible for the mother not to know.

You are confused as to my position? Let me try to clarify. My point is that there IS a point at which a woman should not be able to seek an abortion for any reason other than the health of the baby or mother. Im glad I dont have the job of determining that point but IMO it should exist. It is a separate life growing inside the mother and should be protected from some point.

IMO the "her body her choice" mantra is bullshit. There is the life of the baby to consider as well (to a lesser degree probably) as the father.
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15 weeks is too early for the availability to some testing, along with the consideration of the results of such for common issues. Down Syndrome being a reasonably well known reason, with the definitive amniocentesis sample test being a key one.

Just as late terminations are rare, cases of both lives being lost due to suicide of a troubled mother also exist. Basically, whilst the father deserves some input in decisions, it should always come down to the mother and her doctors for mine.

Governments should provide guidelines, religion butt out completely and anyone that wishes to force birth, should never ever whinge about single mothers and social security.
 
CloudyGlock said:
That is the toughest question and to be completely honest its not an easy answer for me (nor IMO should it be for anyone). Most laws in Aus are between 15-22 weeks. If I had a gun held to my head and had to make a decision I'd say 12-15 weeks. Im not sure if you have kids Yoss but if you have seen the 12 week ultrasound, its a little person, beating heart, all parts formed. If I had to pick the point it would be earliest point where it becomes almost impossible for the mother not to know.

You are confused as to my position? Let me try to clarify. My point is that there IS a point at which a woman should not be able to seek an abortion for any reason other than the health of the baby or mother. Im glad I dont have the job of determining that point but IMO it should exist. It is a separate life growing inside the mother and should be protected from some point.

IMO the "her body her choice" mantra is bullshit. There is the life of the baby to consider as well (to a lesser degree probably) as the father.
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Look I respect your right to hold that position, I just don’t share it and I think your opinion on how another rational human treats their body should be just that. An incest or rape survivor for instance should have accessible and affordable abortion options. I understand what you’re saying but I’m comfortable with a woman having the rights they enjoy in Australia. You may think that’s bullshit but I believe her rights are paramount and for me that exceeds those of the father and even the fetus. I don’t think you or I or the government have any business telling a woman she has to carry a fetus to delivery if she chooses not to.

Yes I have one child. He’s awesome.
 
hugh1954 said:
Gabbard or De Santis , Joe will be in a home by then
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Ignoring the second bit, I doubt it will be De Santis. I think that relationship is in the can. Assuming Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon indeed runs and wins the nomination I’d imagine it will be another middle aged white guy like Pence. I’d doubt he wants to put off the good ole boys base.
 
Winston Churchill said:
Do you actively try to be ignorant when it comes to your lefties acting the way they do or are you genuinely uneducated on how the left has behaved for the last 6 years? Smelling a fish either way.
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Come on man. Do you want to have a civil respectful conversation or do you want to do this?

Treating the “left” as a block is ridiculous. There are a lot of people on the left. Not all of them behave rationally or responsibly.
 
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