Referendum 2023

[AmericanHistoryX]

Yeah that's not cool. You didn't invade anything.



It's alright bro.. Ideally I can spend my time both
here and over there. That would be my preference

It was the sandunes for myself under a night sky full of stars crammed against one another - with beautiful people indulging us in their folklore and traditions as the bells from their waists saturated another Arabian night . It was magical.

 

[Tiger-ferret]

Who's calling you an invader mate?

Has someone said it's not your country, or it's not going to still be your country if there is a permanent advisory body for indigenous people?

Australia Day has turned into invasion day…

 

[Tiger-ferret]

Truthfully, I can't stand Australia sometimes.
from the backward mentalities woven through
colonialism, 2 the Americanisation of our poltics/
media. It's a beautiful country and it's my 'home' but
I've been seriously considering emigrating again

Edit: I forgot to quote Spartan's post

Back to the country with the best women’s and humans rights for workers right?

 

[TillLindemann]

Back to the country with the best women’s and humans rights for workers right?

No no, Gulf states basically using south Asians as slave labour in 2023 is fine, it's only things western countries did centuries ago that are important.

 

[Tucker]

It seems corporate Australia has really bought into the YES campaign narrative with quite a few of our largest companies contributing donations worth millions each to the cause.
Albo has been very busy, making a lot of promises it would seem.
Qantas appear to have been paid back already with the favourable decision over Qatar Airways. I wonder what the rest are getting?

 

[Tucker]

No no, Gulf states basically using south Asians as slave labour in 2023 is fine, it's only things western countries did centuries ago that are important.

This is very true. Especially in construction.

 

[Curly_Tiger]

Don’t look to government to make things better for you, they don’t care about any of us

 

[Kaito]

No no, Gulf states basically using south Asians as slave labour in 2023 is fine, it's only things western countries did centuries ago that are important.

Geez man haha. You've drawn a long bow there

Back to the country with the best women’s and humans rights for workers right?

Could be better TBH. They've made good
progress... Particularly with the labour laws.
Woman are treated like royalty over there FYI.
Doesn't matter whether they're expat or local

 

[twentyforty]

We currently have 11 Indigenous Parliamentary reps - all fighting for their piece of the pie for their areas, issues and constituents. If this new organisation is introduced, what becomes of their voices? Do they work in conjunction with it? Do they work under its umbrella? Will it undo their current initiatives for the “greater good”?
So many questions and zero answers.

We already have the National Indigenous Australians Agency, which is an executive agency of the Prime Ministers department and cabinet. An internal government agency responsible for policy development, program design and service delivery to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island people. They have 1400 staff with about 22% identifying as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islanders.
The NIAA was announced by the Morrison Government in 2019.
So I guess my question is..have we found this agency ineffective in such a short time? Or. do we expect this agency to report to a newly formed “voice”?

 

[Kaito]

I have had a friend living in Dubai for about 15 years now.
Crazy city and bloody hot. I live in Cairns and am saying it’s hot there lol…
Incredible engineering and construction going on over there.

Dunno bro Cairns is pretty bloody hot too haha.
Middle East has a different type of sun though,
not as unforgiving as it is here I've noticed...
Get a fair amount of sand cover there but
still quite humid. A/C pumps everywhere

Crazy city indeed. It transforms each time I visit.
My old mans been there for 25+ years. First time
I went it was pretty much only Sheikh Zayed Rd
& a few hotels. Amazing what money could buy

 

[Kaito]

It was the sandunes for myself under a night sky full of stars crammed against one another - with beautiful people indulging us in their folklore and traditions as the bells from their waists saturated another Arabian night . It was magical.

Amazing. Glad you enjoyed it, very hospitable ppl!

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

Beautiful people Kaito!!!!!!!!. But I don't have to tell you.

 

[watersider]

ATSIC acheived absolutely nothing in terms of improving life for indigenous Australians, and ended up being an expensive gravy train led by a serial rapist.
And you want such a thing to be in the constitution, permanent and unremovable?

Fair enough, ATSIC wasn't a success but I'm hopeful that a new advisory board would be so.

Somebody else brought ATSIC up and I explained why I thought it wasn't good enough to create an advisory body in that model in future, I wasn't suggesting it was a good thing. Just like there are bad governments and good ones, I don't think we get rid of democracy just because one doesn't work so well.

If the voice isn't working the parliament has the power to change it.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Don’t look to government to make things better for you, they don’t care about any of us

That's true.

Wish that they'd stop making things worse though.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Probably back to the UAE I've lived there before
and have family there. It would be work related
though haha, I don't hate Australia just better
opportunity. Family has a business over there

UAE looks after their nationals better than here.

Education, work ,business and capital formation.

 

[jadtiger]

UAE looks after their nationals better than here.

Education, work ,business and capital formation.

UAE has more money that just about any other country can ever hope to have to achieve their objectives,however i would still rather live here than there

 

[Magpie_Magic]

This current obsession with dividing the country into special racial categories is the absolute perfect example of Americanisation of politics.

Very true, divide and conquer.

Easier that way to continuously change things around in ways that benefit few and alienate many while we argue amongst ourselves and they throw it back on us.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

UAE has more money that just about any other country can ever hope to have to achieve their objectives,however i would still rather live here than there

That's true.

But the UAE isn’t our country.

But I wish some of the initiatives they have for their nationals were taken up here.

Here, a wealthy migrant gets more breaks than indigenous and other nationals while we get to argue for and vote in the referendum.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Fair enough, it's definitely a significant change. But what 'dangers' do you anticipate with the parliamentary power point?

First off......congratulations to you for your balanced and informed response. its a pleasure to actually discuss on afactual basis.

The 'dangers' I foresee is that the proposal is completely open ended with regards to the power of the goverment of the day and as such poses the danger that the government of the day could neuter the Voice or conversely give it (IMO) too much power as the right to make legislation for indigenous people, the power to be involved on forming legislation etc. You and I dont know what future governments might do with it.

I would be more inclined to vote for it if the powers of the Voice were established. The body is going to be enshrined in the Constitution, then the powers of that body should be as well.

I've stated why I think constitutional change is necessary but I can see you're not convinced! Certainly either party could (and has) created advisory boards like the voice in the past. The trouble is that they've been dissolved in the past, and there's been no ATSIC like body since 2005. The third point in the constitutional change is important because parliament should have the power to change the voice. Say for instance it is found to only represent the 'inner city indigenous academia', then government may wish to change the advisory body to make it more representative of wider indigenous population. Another situation may be there's issues with corruption.

The constitution is not meant to be a "law" it is meant to be the core basis of values and principles that formthe basis of our nation and on which basis all laws are made (judicial and legislative). IMO if something isnt intrinsic, defined and timeless enough that it doesnt stand without constant change by the Govt, then it has no place in the Constitution and can and should be legislated by the Govt.

Parliamentary power over the voice is very important and this amendment would be much more controversial and significant without that. I wouldn't vote no against it for that point. Although if you believe in indigenous sovereignty and want a more powerful voice that isn't held to account, you'd definitely get rid of that one.

If parliamentary power is very important for the Voice, then it has no place in the Constitution and should be legislated instead.. That is not what the Constitution is for.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

All initiatives are corruptible.
I’ve watched Governments release hundreds of Billions of dollars over the years to help/support/aid our communities for little result.
This will be no different.

This will be VERY different, it will be enshrined in the Constitution forever.