Referendum 2023

[Mistymuzzle]

Mate, you misunderstand.
I saw you misunderstand another post as well.
No one is stating they are more prone. I’m stating they are prone. To suggest otherwise is stupid.

Dont think I misunderstood at all.

you literally responded to a post saying
"I don't feel like Aboriginal and Torre Strait Islander people are particularly prone to corruption."

To which you responded....It depends.

Here is your chance...do you think aboriginal people are particularly prone to corruption?

 

[Tucker]

I doubt that they are any more prone to corruption than any other Australians are.

My comment was merely to highlight the naivety of the comment that I quoted and highlighted.

There are criminals in all aspects of society.

Exactly.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

I doubt that they are any more prone to corruption than any other Australians are.

My comment was merely to highlight the naivety of the comment that I quoted and highlighted.

There are criminals in all aspects of society.

So you agreed with the comment that you quoted and highlighted then? Despite it being naive?

 

[Tucker]

Dont think I misunderstood at all.

you literally responded to a post saying
"I don't feel like Aboriginal and Torre Strait Islander people are particularly prone to corruption."

To which you responded....It depends.

Here is your chance...do you think aboriginal people are particularly prone to corruption?

Look before you carry on and embarrass yourself further, you should know one half of my family is indigenous.
I have stated…through experience…that the activists leading this charge are not representative of the communities that I am involved with. They are opportunists, mainly from the cities. And yes…I don’t trust them.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Look before you carry on and embarrass yourself further, you should know one half of my family is indigenous.

So?

I have stated…through experience…that the activists leading this charge are not representative of the communities that I am involved with. They are opportunists, mainly from the cities. And yes…I don’t trust them.

as I have stated, I agree with you about that totally.

However you have also stated that aboriginal and torres strait islanders are particularly prone to corruption due to being aboriginal. I honestly think you probably misread the post you were referring to and didnt actually mean it the way you said it which is why I directly gave you the opportunity to clarify. Interesting that you didnt take the opportunity to clarify.

 

[shiretiger]

So you agreed with the comment that you quoted and highlighted then? Despite it being naive?

No. It is naive in the extreme. The last iteration of the Voice, AKA ATSIC, proves that.

Clark wasn't the only example. Google is your friend:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08...uption-bullying-allegations-supreme/102755920

https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...kings-probes-and-misused-cash-20230203-p5cho0

https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/...riginal-land-council-leaders-acted-corruptly/

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-fraud-deception-charges-20210824-p58lk1.html

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...wasn-t-enough-court-told-20200204-p53xqh.html

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06...ations-investigated-allegations-fraud/7476570

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03...al-land-council-has-first-day-at-icac/9593266

 

[Mistymuzzle]

No. It is naive in the extreme. The last iteration of the Voice, AKA ATSIC, proves that.

Clark wasn't the only example. Google is your friend:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08...uption-bullying-allegations-supreme/102755920

https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...kings-probes-and-misused-cash-20230203-p5cho0

https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/...riginal-land-council-leaders-acted-corruptly/

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-fraud-deception-charges-20210824-p58lk1.html

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...wasn-t-enough-court-told-20200204-p53xqh.html

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06...ations-investigated-allegations-fraud/7476570

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03...al-land-council-has-first-day-at-icac/9593266

The comment you highlighted said that the poster didnt "feel like Aboriginal and Torre Strait Islander people are particularly prone to corruption."

Do you think that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders are particularly prone to corruption?

 

[Mistymuzzle]

No. It is naive in the extreme. The last iteration of the Voice, AKA ATSIC, proves that.

Clark wasn't the only example. Google is your friend:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08...uption-bullying-allegations-supreme/102755920

https://www.afr.com/politics/federa...kings-probes-and-misused-cash-20230203-p5cho0

https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/...riginal-land-council-leaders-acted-corruptly/

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-fraud-deception-charges-20210824-p58lk1.html

https://www.theage.com.au/national/...wasn-t-enough-court-told-20200204-p53xqh.html

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06...ations-investigated-allegations-fraud/7476570

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03...al-land-council-has-first-day-at-icac/9593266

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Do you think that Aboriginals are more prone to corruption than other Australians?

 

[Tucker]

So?

as I have stated, I agree with you about that totally.

However you have also stated that aboriginal and torres strait islanders are particularly prone to corruption due to being aboriginal. I honestly think you probably misread the post you were referring to and didnt actually mean it the way you said it which is why I directly gave you the opportunity to clarify. Interesting that you didnt take the opportunity to clarify.

I did clarify. I’m not talking the whole population and anyone with an ounce of commonsense can see that.
So take the big Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon card you thought you were playing and go place it in that enormous cavity where your head normally resides. You have very little, to nothing, to offer on this topic.

 

[shiretiger]

The comment you highlighted said that the poster didnt "feel like Aboriginal and Torre Strait Islander people are particularly prone to corruption."

Do you think that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders are particularly prone to corruption?

I know what I quoted "I don't feel like Aboriginal and Torre Strait Islander people are particularly prone to corruption."

Such a claim is completely naive.

They are as corruptible as the rest of society.

 

[shiretiger]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Do you think that Aboriginals are more prone to corruption than other Australians?

Comprehension is hard I know.

 

[Betterdays22]

Look before you carry on and embarrass yourself further, you should know one half of my family is indigenous.
I have stated…through experience…that the activists leading this charge are not representative of the communities that I am involved with. They are opportunists, mainly from the cities. And yes…I don’t trust them.

I admire your advocacy for aboriginal people in remote regions. There are no doubts the negative impacts of colonialism are felt most intensely by people out there. I will make the point though the majority of Aboriginal people actually live in cities and their suburbs. In my role I work very closely with these communities and can tell you, they do not have it easy either.

I agree with your point about Lidia Thorpe. She has done damage to the reconciliation process. I think you are being harsh on Thomas Mayo. He has historically had a pretty extreme viewpoint which has been moderated of late. I don't agree with the charactisation of educated and well spoken aboriginal people as "elites", as some mainstream media outlets and politicians have said.

I think you speak of a broader problem of people in the regions not feeling represented by those in power (which is ironic because the Nats have actually had huge amounts of politcial power over the last 20-30 years).

 

[Mistymuzzle]

I did clarify. I’m not talking the whole population and anyone with an ounce of commonsense can see that.
So take the big Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon card you thought you were playing and go place it in that enormous cavity where your head normally resides. You have very little, to nothing to offer on this topic.

not playing any Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon card mate. For me its very straightforward. I do not believe that aboriginal or torres strait islanders are any more prone to corruption than any other Australian.

You think it depends......

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Comprehension is hard I know.

Seems to be for you. Did you actually read the post you responded to? If you believe that aboriginals are no more prone to corruption than the rest of the Australian population, what is the point you are trying to prove with the Geoff Clarke and other links? That some aboriginal people are corrupt? Righto....

 

[Mistymuzzle]

I know what I quoted "I don't feel like Aboriginal and Torre Strait Islander people are particularly prone to corruption."

Such a claim is completely naive.

They are as corruptible as the rest of society.

Turns out comprehension is hard....

The word particularly means "in particular" meaning exceptional, so exception to society. You have agreed repeatedly with the claim and the claim isnt naive, its 100% accurate and correct.

The claim "I dont feel aboriginal people are prone to corruption" would be naive and worthy of a list of Geoff Clarke links.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

A better analogy is that all members get to vote for the Wests Tigers Board but only members who were previous members of Balmain/ Western Suburbs Football Clubs get to vote for a second group that tells the board what to do. That is the equivalent analogy.

It's not analogous.

The Wests Tigers are privately owned with with a constitution in place. Members are season ticket holders. Members never had the ability to vote for the composition of the Wests Tigers board.

The Voice referendum is an attempt to alter one part of Australia's constitution where citizens already have voting rights.

 

[krissy]

I will be voting yes. I try to avoid discussing anything political because it seldom ends well but I have been really disappointed to see & hear some of the absolute rubbish that has been spread about the voice, mostly by the tin foil hat wearers. Just a few of the gems include the voice being a way that the indigenous people can take everyone’s houses or farms or that it is a ploy so the UN can take over & force us to join the new world order oh and of course what’s in it for me.
Indigenous people have a greater infant mortality rate along with a lower life expectancy rate than other Australians, we need to address this issue. The voice can advise the areas of health issues that need help and where the funding is most needed. In the past committees etc have been changed from one government to the next and usually it sets any advances back to square one, by including the voice it ensures continuity and accountability.
The voice is to advise Parliament, it does not have a veto over Parliament.
Sure there has been some corruption in the past regarding indigenous funds but corruption in any funding in politics is not something limited to the indigenous people.
Anyway that is my abridged view and my basic outline of a yes vote.
I don’t believe in telling anyone how to vote, I just want people to try to block out the ridiculous noise when they make their decision.

 

[full80]

I cant see why the Labor Government cant just legislate for a group called the Voice to do the same job as proposed. Less divisive and can be just as effective.

I suppose it's because future governments can abolish a legislated voice - as the Howard Govt did with ATSIC in 2005. And if it won a referendum then it would demonstrate that a majority of voters are in favour of it. The status quo of non-Aboriginal experts making policy is something the majority of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have stated through the Uluru Dialogues isn't working.

 

[TillLindemann]

The voice can advise the areas of health issues that need help and where the funding is most needed.

So you raise health issues: will the voice to parliament include trained, specialist health experts? If no, will its advice be seen as being more important than that from existing health experts? If yes, is that a good thing? If no, what's the point if it?

In the past committees etc have been changed from one government to the next and usually it sets any advances back to square one

Are you suggesting members of the voice to parliament are there for life? If no and they routinely change (through elections? through government appointments? How? Who knows?) then they will change just as frequently as other committees that have already been trailed and failed.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

It's not analogous.

The Wests Tigers are privately owned with with a constitution in place. Members are season ticket holders. Members never had the ability to vote for the composition of the Wests Tigers board.

The Voice referendum is an attempt to alter one part of Australia's constitution where citizens already have voting rights.

Thank you captain obvious. Its not analogous.....its an analogy.

The analogy I put forward that if members voted for the wests tigers board but the original members got to elected a group that advised the board is correct.