Referendum 2023

[Magpie_Magic]

I think she was referring to the pre-selection process, in that we have to vote for candidates selected via questionable means.

Yeah personally I don't believe elections are rigged. They don't need too.

Candidates are carefully vetted through pre-selection . Where they can be encouraged, discouraged and sponsored.

There isn't much grass roots democracy only different levels of authoritarianism.

They all think they know what's good for us.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Disagree with this.

It’s too basic. Advisory bodies for indigenous people already exist as has been previously mentioned. I get this is meant to be a centralised one but nevertheless there is little need to change the constitution for an advisory body.

As I said law must have clear parameters.

And as I've said I will be voting yes by post. But I too have misgivings.

Given this is a 50/50 chance if it fails I'm sure that the lack of boundary will be the difference for a good 10% of voters.

There would be no problems with potential perceptions of boundary, if only the Liberal party had allowed a conscience vote. instead, we now have a good proportion of the shadow cabinet endorsing that which they do not believe.

A pretty good minister was in place when they were in government, as was another since firstly in opposition. Sadly the party decided to go down this horrible route, removing a competent player in the former shadow minister, who would not be misleading the community to this day

 

[Tiger-ferret]

Yeah personally I don't believe elections are rigged. They don't need too.

Candidates are carefully vetted through pre-selection . Where they can be encouraged, discouraged and sponsored.

There isn't much grass roots democracy only different levels of authoritarianism.

They all think they know what's good for us.

What’s good for them is good for us

 

[Magpie_Magic]

There would be no problems with potential perceptions of boundary if only the Liberal party had allowed a conscience vote.

A pretty good minister was in place when they were in government, as was another since firstly in opposition. Sadly the party decided to go down this horrible route, removing a competent player in the former shadow minister, who would not be misleading the community to this day

To be honest I haven't been following the political discourse much. I tend to follow the international and business side out of work necessity and personal interest far more. At the end of the day Australian fortunes are very much dictated to from abroad unfortunately.

In any case when this came up I decided to support it for ideological reasons. I get the connection Aboriginals feel with their land. Not for the city dwellers doing well or the activists.

But I would be against reparations, just more targeted help towards access.

I voted for Albanese even though I'm right wing on most issues. But even though steady he didn't deliver in doing much of what was discussed pre election by the ALP. Don't wish to appear insensitive but this wouldn't rank in the top 5 of important issues for most people...........but it will literally take over the political landscape I fear to the detriment of everything else.

More on the housing, cost of living side and as was discussed in the lead up to the election lower immigration to help the average guy catch up so to speak and basically just jumped straight to this big ticket item.

Pretty much done with Australian politics.

It's going to be a struggle to choose a candidate next time around. In any case if this doesn't go through everything else is going to get derailed.

I suppose it just means the other stuff isn't fixable.

 

[cktiger]

Vote yes.. you’ll regret it.

 

[earl]

I watched the video too. She raises some good
points.

I didn't hear any good point. Can you explain the good point. She basically states they want their own government. I mean be my guest. I want to fly like superman.

 

[Enmore_Tiger]

For those interested.

Attempted Aboriginal massacres took place as recently as 1981, historian says

Alice Springs mass poisoning claimed two lives and left many in hospital but details are scarce, showing challenges of verifying frontier killings

www.theguardian.com

 

[Tucker]

I didn't hear any good point. Can you explain the good point. She basically states they want their own government. I mean be my guest. I want to fly like superman.

I thought you cared about Aboriginal issues?

 

[Tucker]

Interesting that the media are tripping over themselves to create a narrative of acceptance and protection for people like Marcia Langton, who continually cry racism and play the victim, yet crucify people like Jacinta Price who draw attention to Aboriginal domestic violence and child sexual assault.

This is a red flag to all Australians about “truth telling” which is a key pillar of the Uluṟu Statement, supported by the current government. It will be a certain truth, told as the only truth. Obviously it won’t be a false narrative and will be verifiable, but it will only focus on two things…historical injustice and inter-generational trauma. There will be no mention of the good done to help, the success stories and triumphs.

These two ladies have demonstrated this week the divide in our community on what we deem important. Whilst Marcia calls the country racist for the umpteenth time publicly and speaks with an air of superiority over the main population of Australia, Jacinta discusses real problems, happening right now, drawing attention to a desperate situation in rural and especially remote communities. The focus of both women is being amplified in the campaigns being put forward for this referendum.

 

[shiretiger]

Some pertinent questions from Ben Fordham today on 2GB

“We don’t know how many people will sit on the Voice.

“We don’t know if they will be appointed or if they will be elected.

“We don’t know if the Voice will have a headquarters in Canberra.

“We don’t know if the Voice needs its own support staff.

“We don’t know if it will have an annual budget.

“We don’t know if members of the Voice will be paid.

“If members of the Voice are divided on a particular issue, we don’t know which opinion the government will listen to.

“If the Voice is to advise on policies impacting Indigenous Aussies, we don’t know what law or policy doesn’t impact Indigenous Australians.

“We don’t know if some issues are off-limits to the Voice.

“We don’t know if the government is expected to consult the Voice on all major decisions.

“We don’t know if the Voice has to be consulted on routine changes to legislation that affects Indigenous people.

“We don’t know if the Treasurer is expected to brief the Voice on what’s included in an upcoming budget.

“We don’t know what constitutes proper notice for the Voice to consider each issue that comes before it.

“We don’t know what would be regarded as sufficient information to provide the Voice so it can make informed representation.

“We don’t know if the Voice will be expected to respond to each proposal in a set period of time.

“We don’t know if the Voice would have to be heard before a decision is made.

“We don’t know if the Voice will speak directly to ministers or individual departments.

“We don’t know if public servants are expected to consult the Voice because they are part of the executive government.

“We don’t know what happens if the Voice is consistently ignored and whether this may lead to a legal challenge.

“We don’t know which former High Court judge is going to be proven right when it comes to potential legal issues.

“We don’t know if the Voice will be expected to achieve targets when it comes to closing the gap.

“We don’t know if the Voice can better direct the billions of dollars we’re already spending on Indigenous affairs.

“We don’t know how the Voice will interact with other Indigenous bodies.

“We don’t know if the Voice will make representations on issues such as changing the flag or moving the date of Australia Day.

“And we don’t know if the Voice is going to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians.”

 

[Tucker]

Some pertinent questions from Ben Fordham today on 2GB

“We don’t know how many people will sit on the Voice.

“We don’t know if they will be appointed or if they will be elected.

“We don’t know if the Voice will have a headquarters in Canberra.

“We don’t know if the Voice needs its own support staff.

“We don’t know if it will have an annual budget.

“We don’t know if members of the Voice will be paid.

“If members of the Voice are divided on a particular issue, we don’t know which opinion the government will listen to.

“If the Voice is to advise on policies impacting Indigenous Aussies, we don’t know what law or policy doesn’t impact Indigenous Australians.

“We don’t know if some issues are off-limits to the Voice.

“We don’t know if the government is expected to consult the Voice on all major decisions.

“We don’t know if the Voice has to be consulted on routine changes to legislation that affects Indigenous people.

“We don’t know if the Treasurer is expected to brief the Voice on what’s included in an upcoming budget.

“We don’t know what constitutes proper notice for the Voice to consider each issue that comes before it.

“We don’t know what would be regarded as sufficient information to provide the Voice so it can make informed representation.

“We don’t know if the Voice will be expected to respond to each proposal in a set period of time.

“We don’t know if the Voice would have to be heard before a decision is made.

“We don’t know if the Voice will speak directly to ministers or individual departments.

“We don’t know if public servants are expected to consult the Voice because they are part of the executive government.

“We don’t know what happens if the Voice is consistently ignored and whether this may lead to a legal challenge.

“We don’t know which former High Court judge is going to be proven right when it comes to potential legal issues.

“We don’t know if the Voice will be expected to achieve targets when it comes to closing the gap.

“We don’t know if the Voice can better direct the billions of dollars we’re already spending on Indigenous affairs.

“We don’t know how the Voice will interact with other Indigenous bodies.

“We don’t know if the Voice will make representations on issues such as changing the flag or moving the date of Australia Day.

“And we don’t know if the Voice is going to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians.”

All relevant questions, most of which have been raised in this thread, to minimal attempts at providing answers - due to the fact there are none presently.

 

[bptiger 0]

All relevant questions, most of which have been raised in this thread, to minimal attempts at providing answers - due to the fact there are none presently.

And it all goes back to ALBO, he knows what it’s all about and that’s why he refuses to answer questions or give details, because if he does then it would never ever have a chance to succeed,

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Some pertinent questions from Ben Fordham today on 2GB

“We don’t know how many people will sit on the Voice.

“We don’t know if they will be appointed or if they will be elected.

“We don’t know if the Voice will have a headquarters in Canberra.

“We don’t know if the Voice needs its own support staff.

“We don’t know if it will have an annual budget.

“We don’t know if members of the Voice will be paid.

“If members of the Voice are divided on a particular issue, we don’t know which opinion the government will listen to.

“If the Voice is to advise on policies impacting Indigenous Aussies, we don’t know what law or policy doesn’t impact Indigenous Australians.

“We don’t know if some issues are off-limits to the Voice.

“We don’t know if the government is expected to consult the Voice on all major decisions.

“We don’t know if the Voice has to be consulted on routine changes to legislation that affects Indigenous people.

“We don’t know if the Treasurer is expected to brief the Voice on what’s included in an upcoming budget.

“We don’t know what constitutes proper notice for the Voice to consider each issue that comes before it.

“We don’t know what would be regarded as sufficient information to provide the Voice so it can make informed representation.

“We don’t know if the Voice will be expected to respond to each proposal in a set period of time.

“We don’t know if the Voice would have to be heard before a decision is made.

“We don’t know if the Voice will speak directly to ministers or individual departments.

“We don’t know if public servants are expected to consult the Voice because they are part of the executive government.

“We don’t know what happens if the Voice is consistently ignored and whether this may lead to a legal challenge.

“We don’t know which former High Court judge is going to be proven right when it comes to potential legal issues.

“We don’t know if the Voice will be expected to achieve targets when it comes to closing the gap.

“We don’t know if the Voice can better direct the billions of dollars we’re already spending on Indigenous affairs.

“We don’t know how the Voice will interact with other Indigenous bodies.

“We don’t know if the Voice will make representations on issues such as changing the flag or moving the date of Australia Day.

“And we don’t know if the Voice is going to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians.”

sums it up
Perhaps the PM might like to start answering some questions

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

And it all goes back to ALBO, he knows what it’s all about and that’s why he refuses to answer questions or give details, because if he does then it would never ever have a chance to succeed,

Albo and Labor along with teals and greens got across the line in the last election.
Thankfully the public will not be fooled twice with vague promises and scarce detail

 

[Kaito]

I didn't hear any good point. Can you explain the good point. She basically states they want their own government. I mean be my guest. I want to fly like superman.

I should have said interesting rather than good!
Was referring to the legalities/law side of things

 

[Kaito]

All relevant questions, most of which have been raised in this thread, to minimal attempts at providing answers - due to the fact there are none presently.

Mostly been answered. Both here and elsewhere.
When all you do is happy clap no voters' posts,
and thumb up Jacinta & Ben Fordham posts
you kind of give yourself away. Stop saying you
have yet to decide on how you will vote, please!

 

[Tucker]

And it all goes back to ALBO, he knows what it’s all about and that’s why he refuses to answer questions or give details, because if he does then it would never ever have a chance to succeed,

I don’t understand why he has chosen this hill to die on.
His career is going to be over once this fails.

 

[Tucker]

Mostly been answered. Both here and elsewhere.
When all you do is happy clap no voters' posts,
and thumb up Jacinta & Ben Fordham posts
you kind of give yourself away. Stop saying you
have yet to decide on how you will vote, please!

Show me where any of this is answered.
You can’t just bullshit and people will accept it.
Your contributions to this thread have been passive aggressive and largely useless.
How about you get off your high horse and try and provide some answers?
These issues will decide the referendum, not racism like you so lazily and moronically claim.

 

[Tucker]

I find it funny that a guy sooking about Australia wants to move back to a part of the world that is far worse in every aspect that he so readily cries about.
Well, don’t let us stop you going…this country will be better off being 1 more race baiter and full time victim less.

 

[Kaito]

Show me where any of this is answered.
You can’t just bullshit and people will accept it.
Your contributions to this thread have been passive aggressive and largely useless.
How about you get off your high horse and try and provide some answers?
These issues will decide the referendum, not racism like you so lazily and moronically claim.

Cut the charades Tucker. At least I've put my
flag in the sand. You think you're always right,
you get off 'proving' others wrong. Your only
contribution to this thread is rebuting anyone
from the Yes side of the ledger. Cut the BS,
you're a card carrying liberal and that's okay!