Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[2041]

Tim Sheens said as much in his first interview when he took over as coach.

We have also released several players who would still be in our top 13 over the last few years only to end up signing no one. It’s always freeing up space for next year, but next year never came.

I've looked up Sheens's first interview after becoming coach - I assume you mean this one: https://www.2gb.com/podcast/tim-sheens-confident-of-future-success-for-wests-tigers/. He talks with enthusiasm about the juniors coming through, noting that they are 1-3 years out. At no stage does he say the club is sacrificing the present for future success. How would that even work? The club is, and has been, investing in pathways: this is a good thing and it should produce success in the long term. They also just signed a bunch of first graders a year ago. Juniors aren't using salary cap and there's nothing to stop a club having a good first grade side and good juniors - these things aren't mutually exclusive and in fact I'm not sure how it would be possible to make them so.

To your point, freeing up a bit of space in the salary cap for next season is not the same as always looking 2-3 years down the road: it's freeing up a bit of space in the cap for next season. You're more than welcome to say we've recruited badly; I'd agree, of course.

 

[2041]

We're still arguing about the merits of getting a player of Luai's quality after all the years of nothingness in our halves.
This place really is an alternate universe.

No, we're arguing about the merits of getting a player of Luai's quality on $1.2m a year. If Luai was willing to sign for the Tigers for minimum salary I doubt there would be a single person who wouldn't want him. Ditto on $600,000 a year, quite possibly even on $800,000 a year.

There's no such thing as a player in a salary capped league - only player contracts. Jonathan Thurston in his prime would be a bad signing on $5m a year, because it would be literally impossible to build a winning team around him.

 

[hammertime]

Luai is more of a bonus if we can get him. It accelerates our rebuild. We've got some quality youth in those roles.

If we miss out on him, then it's not the end of the world. But don't get me wrong, I hope he signs.

 

[Kaito]

We're still arguing about the merits of getting a player of Luai's quality after all the years of nothingness in our halves.
This place really is an alternate universe.

Nobody is arguing the merits of the signing
TP, would be huge. losing Fainu, Bud, Large
or Galvin in the process is the issue - 4 yrs
on big coin has its blowbacks. Glad we
dropped out of the race 4 AFB too. Dogs
are playing 4D chess, they really want Luai.
I've been hot & cold about this all week.
He could of signed yesterday if he wanted 2

 

[carltonleach]

Bulldogs are going to have team full of centre/utility and 5/8s or wanna be 5/8s. No real fullback and not a great deal of forwards. I can't work out there angle in it all. Going to be interesting where luai ends up one person saying signing with dogs another saying tigers. Odds are he stays at Penrith lol

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Bulldogs are going to have team full of centre/utility and 5/8s or wanna be 5/8s. No real fullback and not a great deal of forwards. I can't work out there angle in it all. Going to be interesting where luai ends up one person saying signing with dogs another saying tigers. Odds are he stays at Penrith lol

Nathan Cleary said that this morning without much conviction. He sounded as though he knew his destination.

 

[Coastie_Tiger]

Common sense prevailed paying a prop way overs when we can pick up an above average or develop one of our own for a third less. I am hearing that Luai is done so at least we are trending in the right direction. If we can add a back or two at least we will be more competitive than previous years.

How solid is your source mate? This is getting interesting now two sides of the fence reckon Luai is onboard with them.

 

[TigerNeddyK]

Until the season was effectively over two thirds through, our forwards were doing a fine job. Our yardage and field position was fine.

Part way through the year we had more play the balls in the opposition 20m than anyone in the comp, so the forwards put us in position. But, we had the lowest tries scored because we just had the worst halves to ever play NRL.

Nice Work Mr Brooks.. thanks for that

 

[Jane the peanut]

I know, but to some extent right. He still identified that Matt Cameron was the man for that job. Whom mind you is their CEO now after originally being brought in as a high performance manager.

Gus also appointed Corey Payne.
Most Penrith fans credit Gus for the first 5 years at the club in turning things around. After that, he made some shocking decisions.

 

[Jane the peanut]

The Penrith Panthers could be in danger of losing another of their young stars, with Taylan May admitting he wants to play with his brothers at the conclusion of his current deal.

The May family have all come through the Panthers, with Tyrone now plying his trade in the English Super League, and young forward Terrell currently at the Sydney Roosters.

Tyrone has recently signed for the next two years with Hull KR after being linked to an NRL return, while both Taylan and Terrell are off-contract at the end of 2024 and are now able to negotiate with rival clubs.

As it stands, Terrell has been linked with re-signing with the Roosters but has attracted interest from rival clubs on a market that is skinny for forwards, while Taylan's contract offers and negotiation status remain unclear.

Taylan, who is expected to shift into the centres at the foot of the mountains in 2024, is set to transform himself from a winger into a centre during the upcoming season.

The outside back, who is back training with the Panthers after an ACL injury ruled him out of 2023 in its entirety, said he doesn't know what's happening with his contract, and while he said he'd like to stay, he also wants to play with his brothers.

“I don't know what's happening with the contract because I leave that with my manager,” Taylan said before training on Monday per NCA Newswire.

“Whatever happens, happens.

“I don't mind (what happens).

“If I could then I'd probably (like to stay) but then again, I want to play with my brothers … all of them if I could.

“That's definitely a goal for me.

“We've definitely spoken about it, and whatever that looks like for us is something that I don't know what it looks like.

“I'm just happy to play here and finish off my contract. If they want to re-sign me, then I'll let my manager deal with that stuff.”

The May brothers as a trio have never featured at professional level, either for club or Samoa, in the same game.

May is too young to go to the ESL. Bullgrubs seem more likely.
The Mole is an idiot.

 

[tigertragic]

Gus also appointed Corey Payne.
Most Penrith fans credit Gus for the first 5 years at the club in turning things around. After that, he made some shocking decisions.

Plus when Ivan returned he had a clean out of all the ‘big’ contracts Gus had locked in , resulting in Penrith having to contribute to multiple players contracts at other clubs.

 

[TigerNeddyK]

One rep player, one briefly amazing but chronically injured guy and half a dozen fringe to ok first graders... in a decade? That's what you consider a club that is perpetually building for the future, is it? The Roosters, hardly renowned as a junior development club, have more of their own junior talent in their squad today.

And that's before we even broach the issue that literally none of those players contributed anything of any conseuqence to the Tigers

You stated that we have not produced any players since Tedesco so I named a few that we have , you can’t then pose a completely different question to my response FFs .. I never ever said we have been a renowned junior development club that was constantly building for the future , as I do not think that at all , but we do have a big development area that has the potential to produce NRL talent .. .. 🤨

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

Nobody is arguing the merits of the signing
TP, would be huge. losing Fainu, Bud, Large
or Galvin in the process is the issue - 4 yrs
on big coin has its blowbacks. Glad we
dropped out of the race 4 AFB too. Dogs
are playing 4D chess, they really want Luai.
I've been hot & cold about this all week.
He could of signed yesterday if he wanted 2

Imagine in 2027 everyone is fulfilling their potential & it's something like this @Kaito

1 Bula
2 Willett
3 Makasini / Saukuru
4 Large
5 L Laulilii / Craig
6 Fainu
7 Luai
13 Galvin
12 Fainu / Faagutu
11 Papalii
Kit Laulilii, Uto, Pole, Miller in prop rotation
9 Da Silva

Bud/Mason bench utility

 

[rugbygoated]

We're still arguing about the merits of getting a player of Luai's quality after all the years of nothingness in our halves.
This place really is an alternate universe.

It's the blind faith in juniors for me. There have been heaps of hyped up juniors who don't turn out great in first grade. Fainu I would be willing to give a good chance. But people are acting like Sullivan is going to turn around our fortunes and thus we don't need to sign a marquee. Galvin won't leave.

 

[Demps]

Imagine in 2027 everyone is fulfilling their potential & it's something like this @Kaito

1 Bula
2 Willett
3 Makasini / Saukuru
4 Large
5 L Laulilii / Craig
6 Fainu
7 Luai
13 Galvin
12 Fainu / Faagutu
11 Papalii
Kit Laulilii, Uto, Pole, Miller in prop rotation
9 Da Silva

Bud/Mason bench utility

🔥🔥🔥

 

[Tiger Tarl]

Re. future HALVES.

If we sign Luai it is almost certain it's for halfback. I believe he could be a standout in that position (like Hynes has shown) but also because we have a bunch of talented kids coming through, all of which are primarily 5/8ths. But so far so is Luai.

So looking at possible NRL halves in our system:

Cezer - started his career as 5/8 and played rep footy in that position but played as first-choice halfback at Canberra and played halfback in Super League.
Sullivan - played 12 games last year, 7 as 5/8, 3 as half-back, 2 as interchange. So primarily a 5/8.
Luai - plays as a 5/8 in NRL
Latu Fainu - plays primarily as 5/8
Galvin - plays primarily at 5/8
Large - Plays primarily at 5/8.

I'm a big believer in plasticity for some players to change position, particularly in the halves. Perhaps any one of these players could make a great halfback but currently only one has shown they can play halfback regularly with some success. But Cezer is just a stopgap.

So who is our long-term 7 (2025 onwards)?

If we get Luai then I'd say it has to be him, leaving the others to fight it out for 5/8. Sezer will play 7 in 2024 and Sullivan 6. Fainu and Galvin could partner in the halves in reserves but who would be 6 and who 7?

However, if Luai doesn't sign with us, then I believe Benji sees Sullivan as our number 7 going forward. In which case, could he give Sullivan the 7 jersey in 2024 with Cezer as 6? This will allow Fainu to understudy Cezer and step in when he can. So 2025 would be Sullivan 7 and Fainu 6. But where does that leave Galvin? He should be ready for NRL by 2025. Some have suggested bringing him in through the centres which I think could work.

But then it's only a few more years until Large is NRL ready. Maybe right when Luai is ready to leave. I guess this is a good problem to have. Getting Luai will definitely help short-term but could cost us at least one of the young guns in the next 3 years.

Is there any way we can keep all these key players or do we have to resign ourselves to the fact that we will lose a possible star?

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

Re. future HALVES.

If we sign Luai it is almost certain it's for halfback. I believe he could be a standout in that position (like Hynes has shown) but also because we have a bunch of talented kids coming through, all of which are primarily 5/8ths. But so far so is Luai.

So looking at possible NRL halves in our system:

Cezer - started his career as 5/8 and played rep footy in that position but played as first-choice halfback at Canberra and played halfback in Super League.
Sullivan - played 12 games last year, 7 as 5/8, 3 as half-back, 2 as interchange. So primarily a 5/8.
Luai - plays as a 5/8 in NRL
Latu Fainu - plays primarily as 5/8
Galvin - plays primarily at 5/8
Large - Plays primarily at 5/8.

I'm a big believer in plasticity for some players to change position, particularly in the halves. Perhaps any one of these players could make a great halfback but currently only one has shown they can play halfback regularly with some success. But Cezer is just a stopgap.

So who is our long-term 7 (2025 onwards)?

If we get Luai then I'd say it has to be him, leaving the others to fight it out for 5/8. Sezer will play 7 in 2024 and Sullivan 6. Fainu and Galvin could partner in the halves in reserves but who would be 6 and who 7?

However, if Luai doesn't sign with us, then I believe Benji sees Sullivan as our number 7 going forward. In which case, could he give Sullivan the 7 jersey in 2024 with Cezer as 6? This will allow Fainu to understudy Cezer and step in when he can. So 2025 would be Sullivan 7 and Fainu 6. But where does that leave Galvin? He should be ready for NRL by 2025. Some have suggested bringing him in through the centres which I think could work.

But then it's only a few more years until Large is NRL ready. Maybe right when Luai is ready to leave. I guess this is a good problem to have. Getting Luai will definitely help short-term but could cost us at least one of the young guns in the next 3 years.

Is there any way we can keep all these key players or do we have to resign ourselves to the fact that we will lose a possible star?

I think we have to keep their positions fluid.

I could actually see each of Fainu, Galvin & Sullivan as halfbacks depending on how they progress. Just because Galvin will be 190cm+, why can't he be a uniquely-built halfback if he maintains his speed & agility.

Can also see Galvin & Large as fullbacks too (they are both athletes & highly-skilled, instinctual and smart footy players).

No reason Fainu couldn't develop into a hooker or Galvin a lock too.

 

[2041]

You stated that we have not produced any players since Tedesco so I named a few that we have , you can’t then state a completely different question to my response as if it’s yo a completely different question FFs .. I never ever said we have been a renowned junior development club that was constantly building for the future , as I do not think that at all , but we do have a big development area that has the potential to produce NRL talent .. .. 🤨

It wasn't really my point, but still, let's go with it. As I noted, the list of players you came up is an absolutely shameful crop for a decade of development. What I actually said was we've "hardly produced any juniors of any quality since Tedesco", which your list of borderline first graders, one season wonders and complete nuffies (plus Addo-Carr) more or less proves. So thanks, I guess.

 

[2041]

Re. future HALVES.

If we sign Luai it is almost certain it's for halfback. I believe he could be a standout in that position (like Hynes has shown) but also because we have a bunch of talented kids coming through, all of which are primarily 5/8ths. But so far so is Luai.

So looking at possible NRL halves in our system:

Cezer - started his career as 5/8 and played rep footy in that position but played as first-choice halfback at Canberra and played halfback in Super League.
Sullivan - played 12 games last year, 7 as 5/8, 3 as half-back, 2 as interchange. So primarily a 5/8.
Luai - plays as a 5/8 in NRL
Latu Fainu - plays primarily as 5/8
Galvin - plays primarily at 5/8
Large - Plays primarily at 5/8.

I'm a big believer in plasticity for some players to change position, particularly in the halves. Perhaps any one of these players could make a great halfback but currently only one has shown they can play halfback regularly with some success. But Cezer is just a stopgap.

So who is our long-term 7 (2025 onwards)?

If we get Luai then I'd say it has to be him, leaving the others to fight it out for 5/8. Sezer will play 7 in 2024 and Sullivan 6. Fainu and Galvin could partner in the halves in reserves but who would be 6 and who 7?

However, if Luai doesn't sign with us, then I believe Benji sees Sullivan as our number 7 going forward. In which case, could he give Sullivan the 7 jersey in 2024 with Cezer as 6? This will allow Fainu to understudy Cezer and step in when he can. So 2025 would be Sullivan 7 and Fainu 6. But where does that leave Galvin? He should be ready for NRL by 2025. Some have suggested bringing him in through the centres which I think could work.

But then it's only a few more years until Large is NRL ready. Maybe right when Luai is ready to leave. I guess this is a good problem to have. Getting Luai will definitely help short-term but could cost us at least one of the young guns in the next 3 years.

Is there any way we can keep all these key players or do we have to resign ourselves to the fact that we will lose a possible star?

I'd look at it this way. If we get Luai - and it's still a biiig "if" - he's presumably going to play for the duration of his contract. So there's a vacancy for one half from 2025-28. Large will still only be 21 and is another contender to at least start playing first grade in another position, so I really wouldn't worry about him at this stage. Sezer will presumably only get one season - if he's even a contender to be extended I'd call that a high-quality problem.

So we're talking about Sullivan, Fainu and Galvin. Realistically, the chance of all three of them hitting their potential and remaining largely injury free is next to nothing. If we're lucky, we'll be talking about two into one. Then, as you say, there's the option of Galvin playing centre to start with. It has also been suggested that Sullivan could be a good 14 in a strong side. On $500k a year that wouldn't be the worst contract in the comp, either - especially by 2026-27.

Honestly I would be shocked if this ever turns into a major issue. In fact it's probably more likely that Luai signs elsewhere, neither Sullivan nor Fainu deliver on their promise, and by 2026 we've got a million dollars plus on the cap that we can't readily shift and our starting halves are Kyle Flanagan and Anthony Milford.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

I'd look at it this way. If we get Luai - and it's still a biiig "if" - he's presumably going to play for the duration of his contract. So there's a vacancy for one half from 2025-28. Large will still only be 21 and is another contender to at least start playing first grade in another position, so I really wouldn't worry about him at this stage. Sezer will presumably only get one season - if he's even a contender to be extended I'd call that a high-quality problem.

So we're talking about Sullivan, Fainu and Galvin. Realistically, the chance of all three of them hitting their potential and remaining largely injury free is next to nothing. If we're lucky, we'll be talking about two into one. Then, as you say, there's the option of Galvin playing centre to start with. It has also been suggested that Sullivan could be a good 14 in a strong side. On $500k a year that wouldn't be the worst contract in the comp, either - especially by 2026-27.

Honestly I would be shocked if this ever turns into a major issue. In fact it's probably more likely that Luai signs elsewhere, neither Sullivan nor Fainu deliver on their promise, and by 2026 we've got a million dollars plus on the cap that we can't readily shift and our starting halves are Kyle Flanagan and Anthony Milford.

Groundhog day might be the movie of choice tonight.

We have seen this story soooooo many times & yet still live in hope the ending is different haven’t we.