Stefano Utoikamanu #241

Tom Shines said:
I like Turiva and particularly Luai … but looking at the squad as a whole … I think their addition is offset to some extent with losing Ice and likely Stef … there is a lot of two steps forward, one step back about it
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Agree. It’s like we play bingo and each year the number of quality players stays the same but the position numbers to which they play shift.
 
Needaname said:
Context is everything. Not saying your wrong but. It does look like Stef joins in to a lot of tackles where others have made the first contact is what I notice.
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Possibly. But to miss an average of one tackle per game while making 30-40 in the middle is pretty strong evidence that he’s a reliable guy on that side of the ball.

In attack, Api looks for him close to the line because he’s a big body who is hard to stop. He almost scored a double v Raiders.

His average metres per game are down a bit this year which is what his critics are desperately clinging to. I argue that’s a stat that’s heavily impacted by how your team is travelling and we all know that’s not great.

As a coach, when you’re playing catch up football, you probably instruct your halves to become more involved and move the ball around. Front rowers aren’t going to be too involved in this scenario.

The reason Stef has an offer of 800K and likely a few higher is because people in the know can see what he is capable of - even if that doesn’t always show up on a bad football team.

Also the reason he wants to play on a good football team.
 
BAGNF05 said:
Possibly. But to miss an average of one tackle per game while making 30-40 in the middle is pretty strong evidence that he’s a reliable guy on that side of the ball.

In attack, Api looks for him close to the line because he’s a big body who is hard to stop. He almost scored a double v Raiders.

His average metres per game are down a bit this year which is what his critics are desperately clinging to. I argue that’s a stat that’s heavily impacted by how your team is travelling and we all know that’s not great.

As a coach, when you’re playing catch up football, you probably instruct your halves to become more involved and move the ball around. Front rowers aren’t going to be too involved in this scenario.

The reason Stef has an offer of 800K and likely a few higher is because people in the know can see what he is capable of - even if that doesn’t always show up on a bad football team.

Also the reason he wants to play on a good football team.
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Unfortunately for us paying $800k (which you’ve got to remember is at the bottom end of his asking) is not going to enable us to add anything further to help Stefano out.
Klem is the one we should be taping but f me we signed him at the start of last year. Hardly even set foot in the joint but unfortunately we are going to be stuck relying on him to get us up field.
 
Needaname said:
Unfortunately for us paying $800k (which you’ve got to remember is at the bottom end of his asking) is not going to enable us to add anything further to help Stefano out.
Klem is the one we should be taping but f me we signed him at the start of last year. Hardly even set foot in the joint but unfortunately we are going to be stuck relying on him to get us up field.
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Its all we got right now. And Klem tries his best.
 
Needaname said:
Unfortunately for us paying $800k (which you’ve got to remember is at the bottom end of his asking) is not going to enable us to add anything further to help Stefano out.
Klem is the one we should be taping but f me we signed him at the start of last year. Hardly even set foot in the joint but unfortunately we are going to be stuck relying on him to get us up field.
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That’s looking more and more like the Packer deal, hopefully he can find something moving forward.
 
Needaname said:
He is fit at least. Look who knows maybe Klem could use some help out there. I could be looking at it completely wrong.
Part of me feels Stef is a bit like RCG at the Panthers to us.
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Klem came on too late yesterday, game was gone. I’ll judge him from next week and see what he does for the rest of the year. Discipline the major issue.
 
I think it's pretty obvious Stef has downed tools, he's efforts this year and particularly of late aren't representative of his ability. That's obviously a now problem for us and i'd be slightly alarmed if i was a club looking to negotiate with him.
I don't see how or why we should leave our offer on the table, he's mugging us and his team mates off. Must be learning the tricks of the trade off Papali'i both cut from the same cloth.
 
Halbrowne61 said:
Wants someone else to make that call, then he can have the “ I was foreced out defence”.
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Still.a kid. Maybe his family wants him out. Big family. We need support. Across 3 countries. We have to be more empathetic and less thinking about ourselves. Without Stef there would be no conversation.
 
I think the current offer for Stef is a good one, maybe a bit on the high end (with potential factored in). However I think we forget that he is still a young player with a long career in front of him. He has been asked to be a forward leader in a poor team from the start without the benefit of building into his career. This may be beneficial for his future.

We compare him to where some of the better front rowers are now, not where they were at a similar stage of their careers. I compared his games in his career to some of the current best front rowers.
Stef has played 69 games and started in the front row for 70% of these games (with poor players around him).

At similar stages a lot of these players were playing less minutes off the bench in strong sides, and able to gain experience with less pressure.
- Moses Leota after 5 years had 81 games, only starting in 17 (21%)
- Christian Welch after 5 years had 77 games, starting in only 14 (18%)
-Lindsey Collins after 5 years, 11 starts out of 49 (22%
-JWH started 37% of his first 46 games
-Fisher Harris started 73% of his first 63 games, however only 2 were in the front row, the rest were starting in the back row.

The exception is Payne Haas who had 3 games off the bench before straight into the starting side.
 
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Dr_Ice said:
I think the current offer for Stef is a good one, maybe a bit on the high end (with potential factored in). However I think we forget that he is still a young player with a long career in front of him. He has been asked to be a forward leader in a poor team from the start without the benefit of building into his career. This may be beneficial for his future.

We compare him to where some of the better front rowers are now, not where they were at a similar stage of their careers. I compared his games in his career to some of the current best front rowers.
Stef has played 69 games and started in the front row for 70% of these games (with poor players around him).

At similar stages a lot of these players were playing less minutes off the bench in strong sides, and able to gain experience with less pressure.
- Moses Leota after 5 years had 81 games, only starting in 17 (21%)
- Christian Welch after 5 years had 77 games, starting in only 14 (18%)
-Lindsey Collins after 5 years, 11 starts out of 49 (22%
-JWH started 37% of his first 46 games
-Fisher Harris started 73% of his first 63 games, however only 2 were in the front row, the rest were starting in the back row.

The exception is Payne Haas who had 3 games off the bench before straight into the starting
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Great stat's on the other players at similar ages.
My problem with Stef is like you said we have given him a great offer for where he is at the moment. We have bought Luai and have some promising young players coming through.

So I am disappointed he wants to leave when we are on the cusp of break through .🙏
 
I am hoping Stef stays (we can do with his size) I wouldn’t be upping his offer though just the opposite reducing it by 10K a week,
If he is serious about staying he should sign,
Let him gamble that he might get more from someone else.
And if he doesn’t we end up with him at a lower price.
If he goes i would like that offer given to that Bronco’s prop willison who I think will end up a better prospect.
 
Vicious said:
Give him some backs that can make line breaks, score tries and be competent enough to catch high balls and defend one on one and it would be very different.
A bit of reward for effort.
Every time our backs have played their part our forwards have finished well on top, it’s not a coincidence.
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What backs.
 
Oldman said:
I am hoping Stef stays (we can do with his size) I wouldn’t be upping his offer though just the opposite reducing it by 10K a week,
If he is serious about staying he should sign,
Let him gamble that he might get more from someone else.
And if he doesn’t we end up with him at a lower price.
If he goes i would like that offer given to that Bronco’s prop willison who I think will end up a better prospect.
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Willison won't leave Brisbane IMO, they rate him and will keep hold of him. Daniel Saifiti would be the guy I would replace Stef with, just hitting his peak age for a prop at 28 and plenty of experience to help mentor the likes of Pole and Miller coming through
 
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