David Klemmer #264

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Tucker said:
I love looking into the stats more than most.
The two stats that mattered the most to me last season was
1. the amount of sin bins we received - absolute self sabotage of a season,
2. the amount of points that were scored against our defence - worst in our 25 year history.
Our discipline and our defence were not elite NRL level quality.
They were an embarrassment.
This needs to change.
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I'd also like to see how closely those two are related. Obviously, more points are most likely to be conceded with 12 or even 11 men in defence but what happens once those players are back on the field? Are we leaking points continually because of fatigue? Are we lifting intensity being a man down?

Another of interest would be number of 6 agains, on what tackle they were conceded and field position when conceded. Same with penalties. That info will never be readily available though as it could be quite revealing when applied to certain teams.
 
Tiger-ferret said:
Genuine question. Who do you think had a worse squad? I think parra underperformed with their squad.
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It’s not about having a worse squad.
In 23 we needed 2 extra wins and if you remember, we dropped a heap of games we should have won. We came last that year because we played scared. Scared to lose, which caused many losses.
In 24 we also needed 2 extra wins, probably 1 extra if we made some god damned tackles.
 
Tucker said:
It’s not about having a worse squad.
In 23 we needed 2 extra wins and if you remember, we dropped a heap of games we should have won. We came last that year because we played scared. Scared to lose, which caused many losses.
In 24 we also needed 2 extra wins, probably 1 extra if we made some god damned tackles.
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I think the squad quality is a huge contributor. No of debutants. No of players used. Average age of player. Rep player experience.

For example, Is there a stat on age/experience per error rate or missed tackles?
 
David Klemmer is going to shut a heap of so called Tigers supporters up in 2025 , this guy come to our club to assist and was sent out with piss week help , now he has some class in May and Hunt along with Pole , he will rise up from where he was to a new high , mark my words , put it down for round 12 to come back and say you were wrong or other , Benji can only afford to play the guys who are winners ,screw the must play 14 games rubbish , if he goes well you keep him, klem is a keeper a silent sleeper m
 
Tiger-ferret said:
I think the squad quality is a huge contributor. No of debutants. No of players used. Average age of player. Rep player experience.

For example, Is there a stat on age/experience per error rate or missed tackles?
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That’s all on the coaches.
They made those calls.
No one held a gun to their heads and forced them to start so many total greenhorns
 
Tucker said:
That’s all on the coaches.
They made those calls.
No one held a gun to their heads and forced them to start so many total greenhorns
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While that is true, it is equally true that the experienced players available weren't delivering. If they continued playing the non performers they would have been hauled over the coals for doing so. Maybe we could have avoided the spoon, but the overall performance from the playing roster was poor.

I unknown, from the outside looking in, is how much of ther teams performance can be lumped on the coaching staff and how much was directly related to the playing roster and the mental/cultural state of the club itself.

2025 will provide some insight. On paper our forward stocks are probably on par with what we had in 2024. Our halves will improve with Luai but there isn't a great deal of quality change outside of that. What we had on paper certainly weren't playing to potential in 2025. Given that, less Luai, there isn't a significant change in player potential. However, they could be the catalyst that change the culture and mindset of the playing group.

If we can go from hoping to win a game (which is what I expect was the mindset has been for the last couple of years) to expecting to win we are a long way towards achiving it.

I have heard a few reputable commentators speak about Benjis knoweldge of the game and his ability to motivate players. I have seen glimpses of that, but not enough to be convinced that he has "it". We only have to look as far back as our last game to see how badly he got that preparation wrong. That alone demonstrates that he still has a bit to learn. A hard way to learn that lesson, but I'm willing to bet he will never forget it.

So I'm not hard over on it all being on the coaches. I think we have had a losing culture embedded in the plying group for a while. Let's trust that our new blood and our young kids bring the energy required to change the mindset of the playing group. That will determine where we finish in 2025 more that the cattle themselves.
 
Tucker said:
That’s all on the coaches.
They made those calls.
No one held a gun to their heads and forced them to start so many total greenhorns
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The terrible form of experienced players like Naden, Staines, Twal & Sullivan and injuries to Paps, Olam, Bateman, Sezer etc. cannot be totally discounted.
 
@Jolls and @BAGNF05,
Im certainly not discounting the points you have both made as they are valid, however what I said is as well and some people (not you guys), are sweeping it under the rug.

There is a lot of revisionism on this forum and its not all helpful. The Wests Tigers Football Department staff in totality, deserve a massive toe up the arse for their work over the past couple of seasons. Those running the pathways and coaching the junior sides are not preparing the players properly. The way they introduce young guys to the top grade is not working. It seems Ad Hoc and without strategy...communication seems awful.
I will forever state that an 18 year old having a mortgage on the 6 jersey all season contributed to our spoon. Yes he had to play many games as there was no one else due to suspensions and injuries, however he was a huge part of the strategic plan BEFORE the season began based solely on his efforts during the pre season training rather than proven results on the field against men. Before they were aware that they had no other choice - he was the choice. I know this sounds like Im blaming him, which Im not..I actually think he was one of very few who cared and tried all year, but the use of him was poorly orchestrated.

Im happy to see that we have picked up some great and experienced talent for 25, Im just warning that for those who think our last 2 spoons were solely roster related, they werent. The 23 spoon was a bad result as we played good enough footy at times to win quite a few of those games that we lost. 24 was more of the same but not quite as bad. Our current roster, as incomplete as it is, should not have gone back to back.
I dont trust what is happening at Concorde nor in the COE. I hope both come under heavy scrutiny in the end of season reviews. They need a lot of work.
 
Tucker said:
@Jolls and @BAGNF05,
Im certainly not discounting the points you have both made as they are valid, however what I said is as well and some people (not you guys), are sweeping it under the rug.

There is a lot of revisionism on this forum and its not all helpful. The Wests Tigers Football Department staff in totality, deserve a massive toe up the arse for their work over the past couple of seasons. Those running the pathways and coaching the junior sides are not preparing the players properly. The way they introduce young guys to the top grade is not working. It seems Ad Hoc and without strategy...communication seems awful.
I will forever state that an 18 year old having a mortgage on the 6 jersey all season contributed to our spoon. Yes he had to play many games as there was no one else due to suspensions and injuries, however he was a huge part of the strategic plan BEFORE the season began based solely on his efforts during the pre season training rather than proven results on the field against men. Before they were aware that they had no other choice - he was the choice. I know this sounds like Im blaming him, which Im not..I actually think he was one of very few who cared and tried all year, but the use of him was poorly orchestrated.

Im happy to see that we have picked up some great and experienced talent for 25, Im just warning that for those who think our last 2 spoons were solely roster related, they werent. The 23 spoon was a bad result as we played good enough footy at times to win quite a few of those games that we lost. 24 was more of the same but not quite as bad. Our current roster, as incomplete as it is, should not have gone back to back.
I dont trust what is happening at Concorde nor in the COE. I hope both come under heavy scrutiny in the end of season reviews. They need a lot of work.
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I won’t criticise the football department too much. I know people who have worked in there and believe that they were working with one arm tied behind their back until Richo joined the club. Madge tried to implement standards and was knifed. Now Benji Is getting the support that his predecessors didn’t.
 
BAGNF05 said:
I won’t criticise the football department too much. I know people who have worked in there and believe that they were working with one arm tied behind their back until Richo joined the club. Madge tried to implement standards and was knifed. Now Benji Is getting the support that his predecessors didn’t.
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3rd time lucky?
 
BAGNF05 said:
I won’t criticise the football department too much. I know people who have worked in there and believe that they were working with one arm tied behind their back until Richo joined the club. Madge tried to implement standards and was knifed. Now Benji Is getting the support that his predecessors didn’t.
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This may be the case, but it doesnt change what I am saying. For whatever reason, the football department has not been doing a good job. The revisionists on here simply put our three peat down to either the roster or the CEO/board. Dont get me wrong, they played their roles as poorly as any...including the football department staff. This staff rolecall must lift their game as they have potentially one of our strongest rosters ever and they cannot waste it.
 
Tucker said:
This may be the case, but it doesnt change what I am saying. For whatever reason, the football department has not been doing a good job. The revisionists on here simply put our three peat down to either the roster or the CEO/board. Dont get me wrong, they played their roles as poorly as any...including the football department staff. This staff rolecall must lift their game as they have potentially one of our strongest rosters ever and they cannot waste it.
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I’m with you there, 10 wins is probably around par with this roster unless we have a cursed year with injuries.

I’m a firm believer that front office & roster are more important than coaching, players worth their salt play for the jersey, I don’t think we’ve had players worth their salt for a long time.
 
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