David Klemmer #264

Tucker said:
That’s all on the coaches.
They made those calls.
No one held a gun to their heads and forced them to start so many total greenhorns
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The terrible form of experienced players like Naden, Staines, Twal & Sullivan and injuries to Paps, Olam, Bateman, Sezer etc. cannot be totally discounted.
 
@Jolls and @BAGNF05,
Im certainly not discounting the points you have both made as they are valid, however what I said is as well and some people (not you guys), are sweeping it under the rug.

There is a lot of revisionism on this forum and its not all helpful. The Wests Tigers Football Department staff in totality, deserve a massive toe up the arse for their work over the past couple of seasons. Those running the pathways and coaching the junior sides are not preparing the players properly. The way they introduce young guys to the top grade is not working. It seems Ad Hoc and without strategy...communication seems awful.
I will forever state that an 18 year old having a mortgage on the 6 jersey all season contributed to our spoon. Yes he had to play many games as there was no one else due to suspensions and injuries, however he was a huge part of the strategic plan BEFORE the season began based solely on his efforts during the pre season training rather than proven results on the field against men. Before they were aware that they had no other choice - he was the choice. I know this sounds like Im blaming him, which Im not..I actually think he was one of very few who cared and tried all year, but the use of him was poorly orchestrated.

Im happy to see that we have picked up some great and experienced talent for 25, Im just warning that for those who think our last 2 spoons were solely roster related, they werent. The 23 spoon was a bad result as we played good enough footy at times to win quite a few of those games that we lost. 24 was more of the same but not quite as bad. Our current roster, as incomplete as it is, should not have gone back to back.
I dont trust what is happening at Concorde nor in the COE. I hope both come under heavy scrutiny in the end of season reviews. They need a lot of work.
 
Tucker said:
@Jolls and @BAGNF05,
Im certainly not discounting the points you have both made as they are valid, however what I said is as well and some people (not you guys), are sweeping it under the rug.

There is a lot of revisionism on this forum and its not all helpful. The Wests Tigers Football Department staff in totality, deserve a massive toe up the arse for their work over the past couple of seasons. Those running the pathways and coaching the junior sides are not preparing the players properly. The way they introduce young guys to the top grade is not working. It seems Ad Hoc and without strategy...communication seems awful.
I will forever state that an 18 year old having a mortgage on the 6 jersey all season contributed to our spoon. Yes he had to play many games as there was no one else due to suspensions and injuries, however he was a huge part of the strategic plan BEFORE the season began based solely on his efforts during the pre season training rather than proven results on the field against men. Before they were aware that they had no other choice - he was the choice. I know this sounds like Im blaming him, which Im not..I actually think he was one of very few who cared and tried all year, but the use of him was poorly orchestrated.

Im happy to see that we have picked up some great and experienced talent for 25, Im just warning that for those who think our last 2 spoons were solely roster related, they werent. The 23 spoon was a bad result as we played good enough footy at times to win quite a few of those games that we lost. 24 was more of the same but not quite as bad. Our current roster, as incomplete as it is, should not have gone back to back.
I dont trust what is happening at Concorde nor in the COE. I hope both come under heavy scrutiny in the end of season reviews. They need a lot of work.
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I won’t criticise the football department too much. I know people who have worked in there and believe that they were working with one arm tied behind their back until Richo joined the club. Madge tried to implement standards and was knifed. Now Benji Is getting the support that his predecessors didn’t.
 
BAGNF05 said:
I won’t criticise the football department too much. I know people who have worked in there and believe that they were working with one arm tied behind their back until Richo joined the club. Madge tried to implement standards and was knifed. Now Benji Is getting the support that his predecessors didn’t.
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3rd time lucky?
 
BAGNF05 said:
I won’t criticise the football department too much. I know people who have worked in there and believe that they were working with one arm tied behind their back until Richo joined the club. Madge tried to implement standards and was knifed. Now Benji Is getting the support that his predecessors didn’t.
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This may be the case, but it doesnt change what I am saying. For whatever reason, the football department has not been doing a good job. The revisionists on here simply put our three peat down to either the roster or the CEO/board. Dont get me wrong, they played their roles as poorly as any...including the football department staff. This staff rolecall must lift their game as they have potentially one of our strongest rosters ever and they cannot waste it.
 
Tucker said:
This may be the case, but it doesnt change what I am saying. For whatever reason, the football department has not been doing a good job. The revisionists on here simply put our three peat down to either the roster or the CEO/board. Dont get me wrong, they played their roles as poorly as any...including the football department staff. This staff rolecall must lift their game as they have potentially one of our strongest rosters ever and they cannot waste it.
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I’m with you there, 10 wins is probably around par with this roster unless we have a cursed year with injuries.

I’m a firm believer that front office & roster are more important than coaching, players worth their salt play for the jersey, I don’t think we’ve had players worth their salt for a long time.
 
Tucker said:
@Jolls and @BAGNF05,
Im certainly not discounting the points you have both made as they are valid, however what I said is as well and some people (not you guys), are sweeping it under the rug.

There is a lot of revisionism on this forum and its not all helpful. The Wests Tigers Football Department staff in totality, deserve a massive toe up the arse for their work over the past couple of seasons. Those running the pathways and coaching the junior sides are not preparing the players properly. The way they introduce young guys to the top grade is not working. It seems Ad Hoc and without strategy...communication seems awful.
I will forever state that an 18 year old having a mortgage on the 6 jersey all season contributed to our spoon. Yes he had to play many games as there was no one else due to suspensions and injuries, however he was a huge part of the strategic plan BEFORE the season began based solely on his efforts during the pre season training rather than proven results on the field against men. Before they were aware that they had no other choice - he was the choice. I know this sounds like Im blaming him, which Im not..I actually think he was one of very few who cared and tried all year, but the use of him was poorly orchestrated.

Im happy to see that we have picked up some great and experienced talent for 25, Im just warning that for those who think our last 2 spoons were solely roster related, they werent. The 23 spoon was a bad result as we played good enough footy at times to win quite a few of those games that we lost. 24 was more of the same but not quite as bad. Our current roster, as incomplete as it is, should not have gone back to back.
I dont trust what is happening at Concorde nor in the COE. I hope both come under heavy scrutiny in the end of season reviews. They need a lot of work.
Click to expand...
Good insights, I fuly understand where you are coming from. There was definitely a bit of roster, a bit of coaching and a bit of poor culture that has got us to where we are. Benji drawing a line in the sand with the kids not achieving their agreed goals is a start.

I'm not convinced that the boys club in the coaching ranks is based on the best that was available - but they are what we have now. If they can't turn our trajectory around they will be without jobs. I guess what I have seen in patches, and what has been reported by some people with a bit of nouse, is that Benji is heading in the right direction. I trust that with the right leadership and a couple of good ball bounces we shake off our culture of hoping to win and become a team that has to be beaten!

The trinity as I see it is Roster, Leadership (Front Office, Football Department and Players) and Culture (Attitude). It is just like a three legged stool - lack any one of them and you fall over.
 
Jolls said:
Good insights, I fuly understand where you are coming from. There was definitely a bit of roster, a bit of coaching and a bit of poor culture that has got us to where we are. Benji drawing a line in the sand with the kids not achieving their agreed goals is a start.

I'm not convinced that the boys club in the coaching ranks is based on the best that was available - but they are what we have now. If they can't turn our trajectory around they will be without jobs. I guess what I have seen in patches, and what has been reported by some people with a bit of nouse, is that Benji is heading in the right direction. I trust that with the right leadership and a couple of good ball bounces we shake off our culture of hoping to win and become a team that has to be beaten!

The trinity as I see it is Roster, Leadership (Front Office, Football Department and Players) and Culture (Attitude). It is just like a three legged stool - lack any one of them and you fall over.
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Out of the trinity - and well noticed - which is the first from 1 2 3? For you.
 
AmericanHistoryX said:
Out of the trinity - and well noticed - which is the first from 1 2 3? For you.
Click to expand...
While they are all important for mine Leadership is the key. Leadership is what develops or maintains culture and attitude. Poor leadership = poor culture and performance is affected.

An average team with good leaderhsip and belief will beat a team of stars who don't have belief in the leadership. A good roster helps - but is not the be all and end all.

Let me introduce you to the Brisbane Broncos; a prime example of what happens when the leadership is poor. On the opposite end of the scale the the Penny Panthers; they have the balance right!
 
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