LIVE GAME Round 16 v Raiders

[watersider]

The good wingers offer something extra e.g. elite speed, aerial ability, repeat carries with tackle breaks and quick PTB, power running, acrobatics. The elite wingers often tick multiple boxes.
I don't think Turuva is particularly lacking in any of the listed areas (except acrobatics which is probably the least useful) but he is also not excelling in any either.
His strongest asset is power running but he is still not in the top 5 powerful wingers and has few other real assets with it.
Without offering that something extra he will always need those inside to create more for him rather than say JAC capitalising on more of a half chance due to his pace or Lomax with his leap and catch.
There have also been plenty of instances where I've been really unimpressed with his defence. Often he will shoot out of the line and take no-one, unnecessarily jam in, be retreating inside his own 10 or even just be so wrong footed he will just slip over. I get a lot of that comes down to what happens inside but he makes a lot of wrong decisions. He was dropped for a period at Penrith due to poor defence and it looks to remain a weakness.

I agree with most of that. I would say he is pretty elite in play the ball speed, though. Playing for the tigers, we're always under the pump with no time when we receive the ball yet he still creates a quick play the ball. Other wingers around the league have the great benefit of momentum from the first tackle rather than us who are usually catching bombs and getting smashed because our defenders can't control ruck speed.

Defensively he makes errors at times, but it's a pretty tough assessment given the way he's often isolated out wide and on the back foot. I just think his errors are pretty typical of wingers in losing teams, and in fact he does it better than almost any winger I've seen for us. In fact, can we name a better defensive wingers who has played for us?

I also think you're just underestimating competitiveness and work rate. You're basically saying he's above average at everything but not adding that he's one of the hardest working wingers in the league and has to do all that above average play on a team that sits 5-9. It's so hard as a winger to look good on losing teams. I love watching addo-carr but he's a great example of a player who would be getting dominated if he played for us. Not enough attacking opportunity, defending on the back foot, all gritty hit ups and no space. Turuva is doing all this with endless energy and strength.

I dunno, I think you should re-evaluate your view on turuva because I think it's important to appreciate the good play amid all the bad. Even by your own assessment it sounds like he's going really well. For context consider our history of wingers and how many of them have looked good. Few and far between.

 

[Tucker]

Why?

Turuva is de-evolving as a player.
His defence sucks and he is hopeless under a highball.
He started the year on fire but has not been anywhere near those levels for a while now.

 

[watersider]

Turuva is de-evolving as a player.
His defence sucks and he is hopeless under a highball.
He started the year on fire but has not been anywhere near those levels for a while now.

You see that with Skelton a little too. I don't really see it that way. In my opinion it's very hard to look good as a winger when constantly under pressure and never getting space and time. At the tigers, the wingers job is to receive the ball and get smashed, take a hit up and get smashed, get into attacking position and quickly have to turn and chase down an opposition player due to an error or poor kick. Every touch is under pressure, there's never ANY space, they never get to break out, it's grind grind grind, take a hit, turn and chase, get hit again, contested bomb again and again.

Our defense needs to be better at tackling before we start pointing the finger at our high work rate eager wingers.

 

[Vicious]

Turuva is de-evolving as a player.
His defence sucks and he is hopeless under a highball.
He started the year on fire but has not been anywhere near those levels for a while now.

You can’t have Turuva and Skelton as wingers in the one team UNLESS you have genuine x-factor on your edges which we do not currently have.
They are both hard running tradesman type metre eaters without any real x-factor themselves.

 

[Tucker]

You see that with Skelton a little too. I don't really see it that way. In my opinion it's very hard to look good as a winger when constantly under pressure and never getting space and time. At the tigers, the wingers job is to receive the ball and get smashed, take a hit up and get smashed, get into attacking position and quickly have to turn and chase down an opposition player due to an error or poor kick. Every touch is under pressure, there's never ANY space, they never get to break out, it's grind grind grind, take a hit, turn and chase, get hit again, contested bomb again and again.

Our defense needs to be better at tackling before we start pointing the finger at our high work rate eager wingers.

A lot of it is on the spine and Ive been banging on about it for months now. I dont know what they do at training, but they look as clunky as hell.
I like Turuva - he is our best finisher. Id back him 99/100 to score when on the end of a backline sweep receiving the ball 10m out. He doesnt shirk the hardwork carting it out of yardage either. He has his faults and I hope we are working on them.

 

[GCfan]

Well if he s out the door, why was he selected?
Either way it’s spun, Benji looks bad from a coaching perspective on this issue.

Maybe Benji was worried about Jarome and was planning on shifting api to 7 and TDS to 9. Something don’t smell right and if you believe the press he’s likely going.
Agree, not the first time we’ve not used a bench player this year and I don’t get it when we’ve had so many plays in their 20 and
Nothing. Surely you’d try your fresh, quick, and dangerous 9

 

[Squater]

What a stupid post! Api was a constant threat in last night's game, is he going to get worse with age like Cameron Smith? How do you know this? Benji has this side showing fight and vast improvements but don't let the facts stop you bagging Benji. Maybe we should bring Madge back and get regular 40 point thrashings and lose the quality players we have, who are here because of Benji. Hate to break it to you but if you think TDS is better than Api and will be in a few years your bubble will be burst sooner rather than later.

Agree. TDS is no where near as ready as he thinks he is. I like him but he still a solid year or 2 from being a good 90min player

 

[Vicious]

Agree. TDS is no where near as ready as he thinks he is. I like him but he still a solid year or 2 from being a good 90min player

No but he is very close to being ready to be a 40-50 minute starting player and Api is very close to being ready to becoming a 30-40min number 14.

 

[weststigerman]

Yes. We are definitely better. Starford is amazing. Players play for him and are improving. But like every Benji year, our redzone attack is terrible and there have to be questions about his in-game management.

He's a smart guy and it'll come together. I just think he needs some outside help with their attack.

I think if this is going to work he needs at least 1 gun assistant coach with some first grade experience that’s not a former teammate.

Problem is I don’t think we can afford them.

 

[Tiger_Yoshi]

Was out at Cambelltown again last night, I've been to 3 of the 4 games there this year...all losses!!!

I hope Richo follows through with his threat to leave that stadium!!...

It's not a fortess for our home games, offers no real advantage to our side, it lacks ANY atmosphere, our players dont react or play as if its a home ground..

.As I walked out of the ground I said to myself "see ya later". hope to never come back to this ground...same applies to Commbank BTW...

I'd like to see all home games at Leichhardt or if we absolutly need the corporate $$$ split 50/50 with Accor and Leichhardt.

 

[weststigers]

Maybe, but is scoring 2 tries with all that possession good enough ?
We cannot realistically expect to win games by scoring only 2 tries each week.
We seem tj focus on our defensive lapses, but not worry about how bad our attack is.
We are well past the halfway mark in the season, our attack should be humming, but it’s getting worse and that’s a major issue.

Mate, Canberra only scored 16. You can't expect to win games scoring 3 tries each week either. It was a game where their defence was very good and we were denied by last ditch efforts on Luai and Bula...even Fainu got real close.

We dominated one of the best teams in the comp yesterday for a full half of footy and who knows what could have been were it nit for a few iffy calls in the first half.

Watching the 2 teams, I wouldn't swap our performance for theirs in a million years.

It was a tight game. We lost. Don't confuse the 5 losses in a row with bad performances. Things to work on sure, but we are always in the game this season bar 2 games. 3 losses in a row by 4 points or less. Getting close.

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

Mate, Canberra only scored 16. You can't expect to win games scoring 3 tries each week either. It was a game where their defence was very good and we were denied by last ditch efforts on Luai and Bula...even Fainu got real close.

We dominated one of the best teams in the comp yesterday for a full half of footy and who knows what could have been were it nit for a few iffy calls in the first half.

Watching the 2 teams, I wouldn't swap our performance for theirs in a million years.

It was a tight game. We lost. Don't confuse the 5 losses in a row with bad performances. Things to work on sure, but we are always in the game this season bar 2 games. 3 losses in a row by 4 points or less. Getting close.

A positive out of all of this ... we did not concede any points for 55 minutes. Coincidentally Latu came on one a minute after their last try.

I thought our middle defence in the 2nd half was exceptional, hit with vigour & in numbers, Raiders rarely made it out of their half in yardage sets.

 

[gregjm87]

I agree with most of that. I would say he is pretty elite in play the ball speed, though. Playing for the tigers, we're always under the pump with no time when we receive the ball yet he still creates a quick play the ball. Other wingers around the league have the great benefit of momentum from the first tackle rather than us who are usually catching bombs and getting smashed because our defenders can't control ruck speed.

Defensively he makes errors at times, but it's a pretty tough assessment given the way he's often isolated out wide and on the back foot. I just think his errors are pretty typical of wingers in losing teams, and in fact he does it better than almost any winger I've seen for us. In fact, can we name a better defensive wingers who has played for us?

I also think you're just underestimating competitiveness and work rate. You're basically saying he's above average at everything but not adding that he's one of the hardest working wingers in the league and has to do all that above average play on a team that sits 5-9. It's so hard as a winger to look good on losing teams. I love watching addo-carr but he's a great example of a player who would be getting dominated if he played for us. Not enough attacking opportunity, defending on the back foot, all gritty hit ups and no space. Turuva is doing all this with endless energy and strength.

I dunno, I think you should re-evaluate your view on turuva because I think it's important to appreciate the good play amid all the bad. Even by your own assessment it sounds like he's going really well. For context consider our history of wingers and how many of them have looked good. Few and far between.

I think you are right with our wingers being up against it but I do think you are also overstating by how much. We are certainly a part of a clear bottom 4 in this regard but it is also not as though we are continuously pinned in our own end every game.
I also think poor team having limited attacking opportunities isn't really an excuse when we do see the wingers with that something extra showcase this in other poor teams. AKP at Titans just became the quickest winger to 50 tries in a perennially poor team. Lomax would likely have (I haven't checked) more carries per game and probably more metres per carry at another poor team.

I also don't think he is at all one of the hardest working wingers in the comp. He is outside the top 15 for average runs per game and average hit up metres per game. In fact on averages he sits behind both Skelton and Staines. He doesn't shirk his work but he is just another winger that does his job here but nothing more.

 

[Tucker]

Yes. We are definitely better. Starford is amazing. Players play for him and are improving. But like every Benji year, our redzone attack is terrible and there have to be questions about his in-game management.

He's a smart guy and it'll come together. I just think he needs some outside help with their attack.

Its crazy to me that such a brilliant attacking genius of a player cant get the team's attack flowing as a coach. Thats his bread and butter.

• Round 1...Gave up an 8-0 halftime lead to not score for the final 74 minutes and find a kill shot against a Knights team who were all at sea.
• Round 4...fought back to take the lead against the Warriors and had 28 minutes to close the game out, but couldnt put them away.
• Round 11...fought back well against an undermanned Rabbits but despite playing against 12 men for the majority of the last 12 minutes, couldnt ice the win.
• Round 14...fought back to be trailing by 4 against Penrith with 11 minutes remaining and couldnt find the try to seal it.
• Round 16...fought back to be trailing the Raiders by 4 with 27 minutes to orchestrate a win. Failed to get it done despite lots of opportunities.

Thats 5 games we should have won considering we apparently have one of the best spines in the comp and one of the best halves in the world. When we play unstructured footy chasing down a lead, we are unstoppable. When it comes to putting the final nail in the coffin....we choke.

 

[watersider]

I think you are right with our wingers being up against it but I do think you are also overstating by how much. We are certainly a part of a clear bottom 4 in this regard but it is also not as though we are continuously pinned in our own end every game.
I also think poor team having limited attacking opportunities isn't really an excuse when we do see the wingers with that something extra showcase this in other poor teams. AKP at Titans just became the quickest winger to 50 tries in a perennially poor team. Lomax would likely have (I haven't checked) more carries per game and probably more metres per carry at another poor team.

I also don't think he is at all one of the hardest working wingers in the comp. He is outside the top 15 for average runs per game and average hit up metres per game. In fact on averages he sits behind both Skelton and Staines. He doesn't shirk his work but he is just another winger that does his job here but nothing more.

I'm surprised by those stats. I don't really look at them much and I guess I'm over valuing effort and enthusiasm. I just think he's really refreshing in bringing that to the team. So often wingers of the past look stuck in mud or intimidated where he looks really sharp and pushes through contact well. The way he cuts at the line and his ability to get to the ground on his stomach is impressive.

You cite workrate of Skelton and Staines, but I think they're really high effort players as well. Staines just is under strength and has nowhere near the impact of Turuva, while Skelton has a much more incomplete game. But in terms of workrate, yeah they have that.

You also have used addo-carr's elite speed and lomax's workrate as examples of players who have attributes better than Turuva. And while I concede on both of those comparisons in the areas you mention, you're still talking about one of the fastest, most exciting wingers to play and the current Australian winger.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Was out at Cambelltown again last night, I've been to 3 of the 4 games there this year...all losses!!!

I hope Richo follows through with his threat to leave that stadium!!...

It's not a fortess for our home games, offers no real advantage to our side, it lacks ANY atmosphere, our players dont react or play as if its a home ground..

.As I walked out of the ground I said to myself "see ya later". hope to never come back to this ground...same applies to Commbank BTW...

I'd like to see all home games at Leichhardt or if we absolutly need the corporate $$$ split 50/50 with Accor and Leichhardt.

Unfortunately for you, our tenure there won’t be decided on our win/loss record there. That’s on the players/club to embrace the stadium/area, and not treat the place as a glorified away game they play 4 times a year. It’s not the playing surface, or the hill, or the rock wall who loses the games. That’s on the club to do better.

 

[innsaneink]

That’s how it looks, but I don’t think that’s the problem.
To give an example Terrell went out of his way to have a good chat with Talyn while he was off the field tonight and you could see they were getting along just fine.
I’m convinced it’s Benji’s arrogance that is the problem, I don’t think his ego allows him to have proper conversations with any players that are unhappy or disillusioned with his decisions and anyone who’s coached teams in any sport at any level or managed teams or people in a workplace would know this is a big problem.

Gee thats a big call...arrogance...are you there when you make this observation between coach and.player?
What are you basing it on....Benji in the media?

I do kno one thing people here take thing that the club say very very literally without reading beyween the lines. What they tell the media and whats really going on are often two very different things

 

[mtd#2]

On the line looks like. TRY. Refs killing us.

It would have been pulled back for a double movement

 

[weststigers]

A positive out of all of this ... we did not concede any points for 55 minutes. Coincidentally Latu came on one a minute after their last try.

I thought our middle defence in the 2nd half was exceptional, hit with vigour & in numbers, Raiders rarely made it out of their half in yardage sets.

Agree mate. Defence was very good after we conceded and our fans act like no other team ever concedes tries. We are going to concede, but it's how we respond. At 16-0, you'd have expected us to fold, but we turned the screws on them and totally dominated.

We lack a little polish at times, but we have also had a patchy halves combo and the Galvin disruption mid-season. Unfortunately, we have to go through that period of adjustment, but Latu looks the goods and I'm positive he is going to be the better half in the long run.

 

[Flippedy]

Mate, Canberra only scored 16. You can't expect to win games scoring 3 tries each week either. It was a game where their defence was very good and we were denied by last ditch efforts on Luai and Bula...even Fainu got real close.

We dominated one of the best teams in the comp yesterday for a full half of footy and who knows what could have been were it nit for a few iffy calls in the first half.

Watching the 2 teams, I wouldn't swap our performance for theirs in a million years.

It was a tight game. We lost. Don't confuse the 5 losses in a row with bad performances. Things to work on sure, but we are always in the game this season bar 2 games. 3 losses in a row by 4 points or less. Getting close.

Getting close, but fast losing confidence. There are only so many games you can be the better team and still lose by a whisker before your confidence becomes shot. It’s demoralising and this team has to face this situation more than most others. Expect a blow out score line to come soon.