Alex Seyfarth #232

Stats for an NRL page which included 6 agains/set restarts. Sezer was also in the top 3 and is not in the NRL anymore (rightfully so). You've tried to justify nearly every penalty given... You could give the same analysis of every penalty given by any player. Api does twice as much work in almost double the time on the field. The amount of times Seyfarth gave away a penalty and did his signature head banging was actually comical at times.

That round 24 vs Souths one was horrible and you've definitely undersold that. it was completely poor discipline... He went into that to take Gray out, he had no intention of wrapping his arms, again completely unnecessary. Gray had kicked the ball and it was gone, the play was over (6:50 on the link below). That penalty almost cost us the game, Souths were on the comeback at that stage and he gave away a silly penalty on the last tackle when the ball had been kick and was going dead. If he doesn't do that, its a 7 tackle set with 9minutes to go and the game is essentially wrapped up.

I've used that example specifically because thats one of the biggest issues with Seyfarth and his penalties, they are completely idiotic at times and unnecessary. Its not like hes giving holding penalties on tackle zero to help the defense get set. He's giving away penalties when we are most vulnerable or already on the back foot.

At then end of the day, that many penalties for a 45minute player is unacceptable, especially for a player who doesn't offer much outside of effort and passion. He's not a great defender, slow mover laterally and isn't a try scorer or attacking weapon by any means. If he gives away penalties at the same rate as last year in his new role as an 80min edge backrower, we can expect 23-25 penalties this year which is exactly what we don't need as a team trying to fight its way off the bottom.

I'd love nothing more than for Seyfarth to turn it around and become a reliable starter for us, but he really needs to work on his discipline and defense before he can considered anything other than bench option/depth option.

Ok can you provide a link to this page that you've alluded to twice like I initially asked (exact quote "I would like to see where you got this Top 3 stat from"). You also said that Seyfarth was worse than Sezer but are now saying he was also in the top 3 so is Seyfarth then top 2? Anyway link please. Thanks.

I haven't tried to "justify" nearly every penalty. I'm pretty sure I said he was unlucky in 3 and also the instinctive reaction to his Canberra sin bin. The rest I think it's reasonably clear are all penalties and all due to bad discipline (except first rabbits one, it's a definite penalty but not necessarily due to poor discipline, he just missed his mark a bit). That's 4/13 and yes you could definitely apply this to every player. The stats will show it's one persons fault but in reality others could play a role (Storm penalty is an example, poor communication and too many players on the player for too long, sure Alex can take some blame but he's not the sole contributor).

Not entirely sure what your point is with Api doing double the work. It's pretty obvious he carried the team on his back to anyone. Seyfarth did a lot of work too, but as a 2ndrow/prop you would have a different physique and role to a hooker so it kind of makes sense he played just over half the minutes. Like I'm assuming you are saying Api made penalties because he had to work really hard, but it's not clear.

Head banging is fine. It shows he cares and probably suggests he was trying not to be stupid but did anyway. I'd rather they took the blame themselves than argue with the ref or try blame someone else.

I don't think I've undersold the Souths one, all you have to do is look at his body language. Here I'll show some images from the game video, but first let's do some math and I'll show all my working out for you just in case I make an error and to show where my information comes from.

So how fast is Alex Seyfarth travelling. What I have used is the youtube video (link) of the match replay, at 1:22:00-1:22:10, where the video shown should be going at real time speed as it is "live". So from when Seyfarth gets to the line running parallel to the touchline 10m out from touch until he gets to 5m from touch halfway (see image):
Seyfarth path.png
For that little line at the 10m mark, I've calculated (more on this soon) to be approximately 2.5m. The way I've done this is I've taken a still (below).

Measurement.png
Then what I have done is I've measured the distance from the 20m line along these broken lines to the tryline using the pixels in the image via paint and come out with the result below.
Measurementwithstuff.png
I've attached all of the exact pixel positioning as well. The green (bad colour choice is the line in question). I've figured out the red line (it extends under the yellow line which I realize was pointless but couldn't be bothered to remove) is approximately 656.4944783 pixels long. The green line is approximately 13 x square root of 37 pixels long or 79.07591289 pixels. Then I've divided these numbers to find the ratio of the small line to the whole 20m which was 0.1204517563 and finally multiplied it by 20 to get the length to be 2.409035126m, which due to the perspective of the shot, the closer 10m is extrapolated slightly so we'll round it down to 2.4m which is a lot easier in future.

Subsequently, using a ruler to determine where approximately 5m in from the touchline. The little white line is 10m as per the standard dimensions of a rugby league field. Halfway was just before the slight change in colour gradient, due to perspective I am going to use it as a marker for the halfway though. Now given where he starts and where he finishes, it's approximately 5.54616985m. Since then, I timed with my phone the time it takes from his foot landing on the 10m out line until he gets to the change in gradient at 0.25x speed and repeated it 7 times for accuracy. I got 3.35, 3.33, 3.34, 3.17, 3.45, 3.23, 3.66, discounted the fastest and slowest time and averaged them to get 3.34s which in real time is 0.835s. Then by dividing the time by the distance in km he was approximately running 2:30 per km pace, which is 24km/h average. Now if you watch the video he slowed down a little bit before the end of the run so was probably doing high 20's to begin then low 20's at the end and his line isn't perfectly straight so chances are he runs a tiny bit faster on average (~25km/h). By the time Gray has first let the ball go to kick, Seyfarth is 2-3m from him.
Gray shape to kick.png
Now at 20km/h being 3m away Seyfarth would have 0.45s to react at the very most. However, Gray is also running towards the path of Seyfarth so this would shorten the distance Seyfarth would actually run before hitting him. Furthermore, reaction time must be factored in to this which for most olympic level sprinters is around 0.15s. So he has 0.3s to change his path and miss Gray whilst going 20km/h and also get out the way of Galvin who's right next Gray.

So in the aftermath. If you watch from 1:22:53 slowing down the bunker replay to 0.25x, you can see him come in but actively trying to stop with his step just before Gray landing way in front of the body heel first. He then tries to rotate his body so that he can try bump off the back of Gray and avoid infringing him, but Galvin grabs at Gray and slightly pushes Seyfarth so he can't go behind, not to mention Gray is actually slowing down at this stage as well. As it all goes wrong, you can see Seyfarth is actually grabbing at Gray to try keep him up.
Keep him up.png
This is indicative of an individual who was quite clearly aiming to avoid contact after the kick was made, not of someone trying to take Gray out as you said. If he was really all about taking him out he would have followed through like you see Olam do in some of his big hits, but he quite clearly braked and was in a really unfortunate position that was borderline impossible to avoid. If Seyfarth wasn't there Souths would have almost certainly scored, but it is his effort to never give up on that he got there and saved a try.

Also the ball did not go dead, watch the video. Staines batted it out. It would have been a goal-line drop out which almost produces the exact same result these days with short drop outs.

Out of his penalties. 6/13 were in Tigers half, one of them was the sin bin one in which they already had a penalty there the only difference is he's off the field. I don't know how this compares to the rest of the competition but I'd say a 46% inside your own half would probably be about average as teams become a lot more desperate in defence on the tryline (loose arms, tripping etc.). I definitely agree that some of them are very stupid though (dragons first one and warriors first one especially).

Part 1/2
 
Stats for an NRL page which included 6 agains/set restarts. Sezer was also in the top 3 and is not in the NRL anymore (rightfully so). You've tried to justify nearly every penalty given... You could give the same analysis of every penalty given by any player. Api does twice as much work in almost double the time on the field. The amount of times Seyfarth gave away a penalty and did his signature head banging was actually comical at times.

That round 24 vs Souths one was horrible and you've definitely undersold that. it was completely poor discipline... He went into that to take Gray out, he had no intention of wrapping his arms, again completely unnecessary. Gray had kicked the ball and it was gone, the play was over (6:50 on the link below). That penalty almost cost us the game, Souths were on the comeback at that stage and he gave away a silly penalty on the last tackle when the ball had been kick and was going dead. If he doesn't do that, its a 7 tackle set with 9minutes to go and the game is essentially wrapped up.

I've used that example specifically because thats one of the biggest issues with Seyfarth and his penalties, they are completely idiotic at times and unnecessary. Its not like hes giving holding penalties on tackle zero to help the defense get set. He's giving away penalties when we are most vulnerable or already on the back foot.

At then end of the day, that many penalties for a 45minute player is unacceptable, especially for a player who doesn't offer much outside of effort and passion. He's not a great defender, slow mover laterally and isn't a try scorer or attacking weapon by any means. If he gives away penalties at the same rate as last year in his new role as an 80min edge backrower, we can expect 23-25 penalties this year which is exactly what we don't need as a team trying to fight its way off the bottom.

I'd love nothing more than for Seyfarth to turn it around and become a reliable starter for us, but he really needs to work on his discipline and defense before he can considered anything other than bench option/depth option.

Part 2/2
I'd have to disagree on the 2nd last para. Sure his penalty count is pretty high but so are many others within the league as I very quickly showed before. His effort and passion are definitely his best qualities which is why I think we've seen such a positive upturn in all (not penalties) of his statistics last year and playing 23 games in the season. His defence was at a 94.52% efficiency (NRL site), higher than Fainu at 90%, Papali'i at 92% and Bateman at 94.09% who all played backrow. Additionally, he was making more tackles per minute than all of those guys at 0.55 (Papali'i 0.51, Bateman 0.43, Fainu 0.41). In terms of attack, I would agree for sure he's not that big of a threat but he can be. However, when our biggest weakness last year was our defence I'd rather he's a better defender than attacker especially with Sammy on the other side. Anyway, regardless Seyfarth made significant improvements in attack with 4 tries last year compared to 2 in his first 47 games. 21 tackle breaks, 9 more than the previous year at a greater average, 16 offloads (double the previous year) and averaging 75 metres (previously 49, 40, 59 and 39). If we compare some of these stats to the other backrowers:
Tries: Papali'i and Sammy scored 5 tries each (Sam had 500 more minutes than Seyfarth, Paps 100 less), Bateman none.
Line Breaks: Fainu 6, Seyfarth 4, Papali'i 4, Bateman 1
Avg. Run metres: From Legz per minute Papali'i was 1.63, Seyfarth 1.54, Bateman 1.31, Fainu 1.3
Avg. PCM as % of run metres: 44% Fainu, 42.3% Papali'i, 40.2% Seyfarth, Bateman 34.3%
Tackle Breaks (per game): Fainu 35 (1.52), Papali'i 33 (2.09), Seyfarth 21 (0.91), Bateman 19 (1.58)
Offloads (per game): Bateman 23 (1.92), Seyfarth 16 (0.70), Papali'i 12 (0.75), Fainu 11 (0.48)

Also because we are talking stats let's bring in errors. 1st Fainu 12 (0.52 per game), Bateman 11 (0.92 per game), Papali'i 9 (0.56 per game), Seyfarth 6 (0.26 per game).
If we combine with Penalties then Seyfarth has 19 negative plays, Fainu 18, Papali'i 16 and Bateman 17, with Papali'i and Bateman averaging more per game than Seyfarth, although Seyfarth comes 2nd to Bateman per minute.
P.S I didn't initially include Porter as I couldn't find him initially, but he is consistently 4th or 5th in 90% of stats.

Pretty much the stats say that his defence is better than all of our backrowers from last year, and his attack is slightly worse than Fainu and Papali'i but miles better than Bateman.

I think overall Seyfarth is a reliable player and does his job very well, however, his discipline is definitely a concern and a very obvious weakness. If he can sort this out which hopefully shouldn't be too hard then he should be in for a very good season.
Finally, responding to your last message.
Statistically him and TDS are the worst disciplined on our roster currently based on 2024 and the Pre season trials. However, most teams would have at least 1 player with under 90 minutes per penalty in their line up (from check, Dogs, Storm, Roosters, Cowboys, Eels, Dolphins, Raiders, Dragons, Souths and I stopped checking there as that is more than half the teams). So realistically, it's not too bad of a squad position to be in and hopefully these two can work on their discipline.
 
Part 2/2
I'd have to disagree on the 2nd last para. Sure his penalty count is pretty high but so are many others within the league as I very quickly showed before. His effort and passion are definitely his best qualities which is why I think we've seen such a positive upturn in all (not penalties) of his statistics last year and playing 23 games in the season. His defence was at a 94.52% efficiency (NRL site), higher than Fainu at 90%, Papali'i at 92% and Bateman at 94.09% who all played backrow. Additionally, he was making more tackles per minute than all of those guys at 0.55 (Papali'i 0.51, Bateman 0.43, Fainu 0.41). In terms of attack, I would agree for sure he's not that big of a threat but he can be. However, when our biggest weakness last year was our defence I'd rather he's a better defender than attacker especially with Sammy on the other side. Anyway, regardless Seyfarth made significant improvements in attack with 4 tries last year compared to 2 in his first 47 games. 21 tackle breaks, 9 more than the previous year at a greater average, 16 offloads (double the previous year) and averaging 75 metres (previously 49, 40, 59 and 39). If we compare some of these stats to the other backrowers:
Tries: Papali'i and Sammy scored 5 tries each (Sam had 500 more minutes than Seyfarth, Paps 100 less), Bateman none.
Line Breaks: Fainu 6, Seyfarth 4, Papali'i 4, Bateman 1
Avg. Run metres: From Legz per minute Papali'i was 1.63, Seyfarth 1.54, Bateman 1.31, Fainu 1.3
Avg. PCM as % of run metres: 44% Fainu, 42.3% Papali'i, 40.2% Seyfarth, Bateman 34.3%
Tackle Breaks (per game): Fainu 35 (1.52), Papali'i 33 (2.09), Seyfarth 21 (0.91), Bateman 19 (1.58)
Offloads (per game): Bateman 23 (1.92), Seyfarth 16 (0.70), Papali'i 12 (0.75), Fainu 11 (0.48)

Also because we are talking stats let's bring in errors. 1st Fainu 12 (0.52 per game), Bateman 11 (0.92 per game), Papali'i 9 (0.56 per game), Seyfarth 6 (0.26 per game).
If we combine with Penalties then Seyfarth has 19 negative plays, Fainu 18, Papali'i 16 and Bateman 17, with Papali'i and Bateman averaging more per game than Seyfarth, although Seyfarth comes 2nd to Bateman per minute.
P.S I didn't initially include Porter as I couldn't find him initially, but he is consistently 4th or 5th in 90% of stats.

Pretty much the stats say that his defence is better than all of our backrowers from last year, and his attack is slightly worse than Fainu and Papali'i but miles better than Bateman.

I think overall Seyfarth is a reliable player and does his job very well, however, his discipline is definitely a concern and a very obvious weakness. If he can sort this out which hopefully shouldn't be too hard then he should be in for a very good season.
Finally, responding to your last message.
Statistically him and TDS are the worst disciplined on our roster currently based on 2024 and the Pre season trials. However, most teams would have at least 1 player with under 90 minutes per penalty in their line up (from check, Dogs, Storm, Roosters, Cowboys, Eels, Dolphins, Raiders, Dragons, Souths and I stopped checking there as that is more than half the teams). So realistically, it's not too bad of a squad position to be in and hopefully these two can work on their discipline.
This is phenomenal analysis whether I agree or not is irrelevant well done
 
Part 2/2
I'd have to disagree on the 2nd last para. Sure his penalty count is pretty high but so are many others within the league as I very quickly showed before. His effort and passion are definitely his best qualities which is why I think we've seen such a positive upturn in all (not penalties) of his statistics last year and playing 23 games in the season. His defence was at a 94.52% efficiency (NRL site), higher than Fainu at 90%, Papali'i at 92% and Bateman at 94.09% who all played backrow. Additionally, he was making more tackles per minute than all of those guys at 0.55 (Papali'i 0.51, Bateman 0.43, Fainu 0.41). In terms of attack, I would agree for sure he's not that big of a threat but he can be. However, when our biggest weakness last year was our defence I'd rather he's a better defender than attacker especially with Sammy on the other side. Anyway, regardless Seyfarth made significant improvements in attack with 4 tries last year compared to 2 in his first 47 games. 21 tackle breaks, 9 more than the previous year at a greater average, 16 offloads (double the previous year) and averaging 75 metres (previously 49, 40, 59 and 39). If we compare some of these stats to the other backrowers:
Tries: Papali'i and Sammy scored 5 tries each (Sam had 500 more minutes than Seyfarth, Paps 100 less), Bateman none.
Line Breaks: Fainu 6, Seyfarth 4, Papali'i 4, Bateman 1
Avg. Run metres: From Legz per minute Papali'i was 1.63, Seyfarth 1.54, Bateman 1.31, Fainu 1.3
Avg. PCM as % of run metres: 44% Fainu, 42.3% Papali'i, 40.2% Seyfarth, Bateman 34.3%
Tackle Breaks (per game): Fainu 35 (1.52), Papali'i 33 (2.09), Seyfarth 21 (0.91), Bateman 19 (1.58)
Offloads (per game): Bateman 23 (1.92), Seyfarth 16 (0.70), Papali'i 12 (0.75), Fainu 11 (0.48)

Also because we are talking stats let's bring in errors. 1st Fainu 12 (0.52 per game), Bateman 11 (0.92 per game), Papali'i 9 (0.56 per game), Seyfarth 6 (0.26 per game).
If we combine with Penalties then Seyfarth has 19 negative plays, Fainu 18, Papali'i 16 and Bateman 17, with Papali'i and Bateman averaging more per game than Seyfarth, although Seyfarth comes 2nd to Bateman per minute.
P.S I didn't initially include Porter as I couldn't find him initially, but he is consistently 4th or 5th in 90% of stats.

Pretty much the stats say that his defence is better than all of our backrowers from last year, and his attack is slightly worse than Fainu and Papali'i but miles better than Bateman.

I think overall Seyfarth is a reliable player and does his job very well, however, his discipline is definitely a concern and a very obvious weakness. If he can sort this out which hopefully shouldn't be too hard then he should be in for a very good season.
Finally, responding to your last message.
Statistically him and TDS are the worst disciplined on our roster currently based on 2024 and the Pre season trials. However, most teams would have at least 1 player with under 90 minutes per penalty in their line up (from check, Dogs, Storm, Roosters, Cowboys, Eels, Dolphins, Raiders, Dragons, Souths and I stopped checking there as that is more than half the teams). So realistically, it's not too bad of a squad position to be in and hopefully these two can work on their discipline.
Take a bow ,hell ,take two
 
Great reply @Charred, that is an excellent analysis strongly backed up with data. There is a logical trail to follow if people want to debate.
We as Tigers fans have been conditioned to use emotion more than data due to the shocking performances of our club over the past quarter century. Objective analysis is better for our sanity.
 
Part 2/2
I'd have to disagree on the 2nd last para. Sure his penalty count is pretty high but so are many others within the league as I very quickly showed before. His effort and passion are definitely his best qualities which is why I think we've seen such a positive upturn in all (not penalties) of his statistics last year and playing 23 games in the season. His defence was at a 94.52% efficiency (NRL site), higher than Fainu at 90%, Papali'i at 92% and Bateman at 94.09% who all played backrow. Additionally, he was making more tackles per minute than all of those guys at 0.55 (Papali'i 0.51, Bateman 0.43, Fainu 0.41). In terms of attack, I would agree for sure he's not that big of a threat but he can be. However, when our biggest weakness last year was our defence I'd rather he's a better defender than attacker especially with Sammy on the other side. Anyway, regardless Seyfarth made significant improvements in attack with 4 tries last year compared to 2 in his first 47 games. 21 tackle breaks, 9 more than the previous year at a greater average, 16 offloads (double the previous year) and averaging 75 metres (previously 49, 40, 59 and 39). If we compare some of these stats to the other backrowers:
Tries: Papali'i and Sammy scored 5 tries each (Sam had 500 more minutes than Seyfarth, Paps 100 less), Bateman none.
Line Breaks: Fainu 6, Seyfarth 4, Papali'i 4, Bateman 1
Avg. Run metres: From Legz per minute Papali'i was 1.63, Seyfarth 1.54, Bateman 1.31, Fainu 1.3
Avg. PCM as % of run metres: 44% Fainu, 42.3% Papali'i, 40.2% Seyfarth, Bateman 34.3%
Tackle Breaks (per game): Fainu 35 (1.52), Papali'i 33 (2.09), Seyfarth 21 (0.91), Bateman 19 (1.58)
Offloads (per game): Bateman 23 (1.92), Seyfarth 16 (0.70), Papali'i 12 (0.75), Fainu 11 (0.48)

Also because we are talking stats let's bring in errors. 1st Fainu 12 (0.52 per game), Bateman 11 (0.92 per game), Papali'i 9 (0.56 per game), Seyfarth 6 (0.26 per game).
If we combine with Penalties then Seyfarth has 19 negative plays, Fainu 18, Papali'i 16 and Bateman 17, with Papali'i and Bateman averaging more per game than Seyfarth, although Seyfarth comes 2nd to Bateman per minute.
P.S I didn't initially include Porter as I couldn't find him initially, but he is consistently 4th or 5th in 90% of stats.

Pretty much the stats say that his defence is better than all of our backrowers from last year, and his attack is slightly worse than Fainu and Papali'i but miles better than Bateman.

I think overall Seyfarth is a reliable player and does his job very well, however, his discipline is definitely a concern and a very obvious weakness. If he can sort this out which hopefully shouldn't be too hard then he should be in for a very good season.
Finally, responding to your last message.
Statistically him and TDS are the worst disciplined on our roster currently based on 2024 and the Pre season trials. However, most teams would have at least 1 player with under 90 minutes per penalty in their line up (from check, Dogs, Storm, Roosters, Cowboys, Eels, Dolphins, Raiders, Dragons, Souths and I stopped checking there as that is more than half the teams). So realistically, it's not too bad of a squad position to be in and hopefully these two can work on their discipline.
I know I’m against the majority here, and that’s mainly because people want to be optimistic and hopeful which is fair and understandable, but I stick by my views. Credit to you, you’ve done some great analysis but you have cherry picked some stats to suit the argument without giving full context and there’s some big flaws that you probably should acknowledge.

Comparing backrowers like Fainu and Papali’i who generally play 80mins against a player who averaged 45mins and played out on the edge and middle is misleading. Really need to look at stats based on minutes not per game and consider where those minutes were played. Once you factor in average minutes and acknowledge reps (runs) the error averages are all fairly even. I don’t think errors are a big part of his game so I don’t even know why we are talking about them anyway. His issues are defense and discipline. I think most fans would agree these are his weak points.

We’ve acknowledge that he is the worst disciplined currently in the squad even by your own metrics. Talyn is just behind but he’s also 19 and only had one full year in first grade. Seyfarth has been around long enough.

I hate the tackle efficiency stat, it’s the most misleading stat in the entire game and fans seem to love it. Tackle efficiency doesn’t take into account tackles that you miss completely or bad reads that create overlaps.

Seyfarth is a poor edge defender due to his decision making and poor lateral movement. Specifically he rushes out of the line and often gets beaten completely by halves which then results in a 4 on 3 overlap. Often the winger scores and people blame the winger but it’s actually the men inside making poor decisions which create the overlap. He also does this on the line, rushing out and the forward or dummy half will go in in touched. These don’t count as “misses tackles” because a tackle wasn’t attempted. Even in your earlier post you mention a couple of his penalties were high shots because he had a stray arm, that’s because he’s rushing up and getting caught on the inside or outside by quicker players.

I’ve spoken to a friend who is a player a rival club about this (what they look at in defensive lines and structures) and he’s said specifically that his team identified that tendency with Seyfarth (along with some other players in the league). They have targeted him and had success with this. Also spoke about another player who they target a specific shoulder and line. But he mentioned that Seyfarth and the other player are the two easiest to exploit.

Defense is the hardest to assess stat wise because there is so much more to it than just a tackle attempt. It’s more to do with the eye test. You’ll find some of the players that are know for being terrible defenders have decent tackle efficiencies, while some of the better defenders have worst efficiencies than you’d think.

Like I said, he needs to work on decision making (not rushing, making bad reads) and work on his lateral movement, as backrowers require quick side to side movement to account for the quicker players on the edge.

As always, you’re entitled to your opinion. I’d like to be as optimistic about Seyfarth as you but I’m just going off what I’ve personally seen over his 4-5 years. Would love for him to prove me wrong this season!
 
Part 2/2
I'd have to disagree on the 2nd last para. Sure his penalty count is pretty high but so are many others within the league as I very quickly showed before. His effort and passion are definitely his best qualities which is why I think we've seen such a positive upturn in all (not penalties) of his statistics last year and playing 23 games in the season. His defence was at a 94.52% efficiency (NRL site), higher than Fainu at 90%, Papali'i at 92% and Bateman at 94.09% who all played backrow. Additionally, he was making more tackles per minute than all of those guys at 0.55 (Papali'i 0.51, Bateman 0.43, Fainu 0.41). In terms of attack, I would agree for sure he's not that big of a threat but he can be. However, when our biggest weakness last year was our defence I'd rather he's a better defender than attacker especially with Sammy on the other side. Anyway, regardless Seyfarth made significant improvements in attack with 4 tries last year compared to 2 in his first 47 games. 21 tackle breaks, 9 more than the previous year at a greater average, 16 offloads (double the previous year) and averaging 75 metres (previously 49, 40, 59 and 39). If we compare some of these stats to the other backrowers:
Tries: Papali'i and Sammy scored 5 tries each (Sam had 500 more minutes than Seyfarth, Paps 100 less), Bateman none.
Line Breaks: Fainu 6, Seyfarth 4, Papali'i 4, Bateman 1
Avg. Run metres: From Legz per minute Papali'i was 1.63, Seyfarth 1.54, Bateman 1.31, Fainu 1.3
Avg. PCM as % of run metres: 44% Fainu, 42.3% Papali'i, 40.2% Seyfarth, Bateman 34.3%
Tackle Breaks (per game): Fainu 35 (1.52), Papali'i 33 (2.09), Seyfarth 21 (0.91), Bateman 19 (1.58)
Offloads (per game): Bateman 23 (1.92), Seyfarth 16 (0.70), Papali'i 12 (0.75), Fainu 11 (0.48)

Also because we are talking stats let's bring in errors. 1st Fainu 12 (0.52 per game), Bateman 11 (0.92 per game), Papali'i 9 (0.56 per game), Seyfarth 6 (0.26 per game).
If we combine with Penalties then Seyfarth has 19 negative plays, Fainu 18, Papali'i 16 and Bateman 17, with Papali'i and Bateman averaging more per game than Seyfarth, although Seyfarth comes 2nd to Bateman per minute.
P.S I didn't initially include Porter as I couldn't find him initially, but he is consistently 4th or 5th in 90% of stats.

Pretty much the stats say that his defence is better than all of our backrowers from last year, and his attack is slightly worse than Fainu and Papali'i but miles better than Bateman.

I think overall Seyfarth is a reliable player and does his job very well, however, his discipline is definitely a concern and a very obvious weakness. If he can sort this out which hopefully shouldn't be too hard then he should be in for a very good season.
Finally, responding to your last message.
Statistically him and TDS are the worst disciplined on our roster currently based on 2024 and the Pre season trials. However, most teams would have at least 1 player with under 90 minutes per penalty in their line up (from check, Dogs, Storm, Roosters, Cowboys, Eels, Dolphins, Raiders, Dragons, Souths and I stopped checking there as that is more than half the teams). So realistically, it's not too bad of a squad position to be in and hopefully these two can work on their discipline.
As great as all this was there are a couple points id contend. All the players noted spent varying time in the middle, where tackling (efficiently) is easier. This skews all their tackle efficiencies, some more than others.
Also whilst Stats lend weight to an argument they do not tell the whole story. Who they were defending against, defending next to, running off all matters.
What is there defensive role? E.g. a player leading the line speed will typically have more missed tackles. A player who wrestles exceptionally well will have a high efficiency but so to will a player who wrestles poorly as the opposition will take the tackle and the quick play the ball.

I don't want to criticise as I think you've done a great job and I agree with all your conclusions. I'm also always a fan of sticking it to people who make blatantly wrong claims. I just think there is also more than what the raw data shows when analysing a game.
 
I know I’m against the majority here, and that’s mainly because people want to be optimistic and hopeful which is fair and understandable, but I stick by my views. Credit to you, you’ve done some great analysis but you have cherry picked some stats to suit the argument without giving full context and there’s some big flaws that you probably should acknowledge.

Comparing backrowers like Fainu and Papali’i who generally play 80mins against a player who averaged 45mins and played out on the edge and middle is misleading. Really need to look at stats based on minutes not per game and consider where those minutes were played. Once you factor in average minutes and acknowledge reps (runs) the error averages are all fairly even. I don’t think errors are a big part of his game so I don’t even know why we are talking about them anyway. His issues are defense and discipline. I think most fans would agree these are his weak points.

We’ve acknowledge that he is the worst disciplined currently in the squad even by your own metrics. Talyn is just behind but he’s also 19 and only had one full year in first grade. Seyfarth has been around long enough.

I hate the tackle efficiency stat, it’s the most misleading stat in the entire game and fans seem to love it. Tackle efficiency doesn’t take into account tackles that you miss completely or bad reads that create overlaps.

Seyfarth is a poor edge defender due to his decision making and poor lateral movement. Specifically he rushes out of the line and often gets beaten completely by halves which then results in a 4 on 3 overlap. Often the winger scores and people blame the winger but it’s actually the men inside making poor decisions which create the overlap. He also does this on the line, rushing out and the forward or dummy half will go in in touched. These don’t count as “misses tackles” because a tackle wasn’t attempted. Even in your earlier post you mention a couple of his penalties were high shots because he had a stray arm, that’s because he’s rushing up and getting caught on the inside or outside by quicker players.

I’ve spoken to a friend who is a player a rival club about this (what they look at in defensive lines and structures) and he’s said specifically that his team identified that tendency with Seyfarth (along with some other players in the league). They have targeted him and had success with this. Also spoke about another player who they target a specific shoulder and line. But he mentioned that Seyfarth and the other player are the two easiest to exploit.

Defense is the hardest to assess stat wise because there is so much more to it than just a tackle attempt. It’s more to do with the eye test. You’ll find some of the players that are know for being terrible defenders have decent tackle efficiencies, while some of the better defenders have worst efficiencies than you’d think.

Like I said, he needs to work on decision making (not rushing, making bad reads) and work on his lateral movement, as backrowers require quick side to side movement to account for the quicker players on the edge.

As always, you’re entitled to your opinion. I’d like to be as optimistic about Seyfarth as you but I’m just going off what I’ve personally seen over his 4-5 years. Would love for him to prove me wrong this season!
In regards to him rushing I think others around him should be showing more urgency
 
I know I’m against the majority here, and that’s mainly because people want to be optimistic and hopeful which is fair and understandable, but I stick by my views. Credit to you, you’ve done some great analysis but you have cherry picked some stats to suit the argument without giving full context and there’s some big flaws that you probably should acknowledge.

Comparing backrowers like Fainu and Papali’i who generally play 80mins against a player who averaged 45mins and played out on the edge and middle is misleading. Really need to look at stats based on minutes not per game and consider where those minutes were played. Once you factor in average minutes and acknowledge reps (runs) the error averages are all fairly even. I don’t think errors are a big part of his game so I don’t even know why we are talking about them anyway. His issues are defense and discipline. I think most fans would agree these are his weak points.

We’ve acknowledge that he is the worst disciplined currently in the squad even by your own metrics. Talyn is just behind but he’s also 19 and only had one full year in first grade. Seyfarth has been around long enough.

I hate the tackle efficiency stat, it’s the most misleading stat in the entire game and fans seem to love it. Tackle efficiency doesn’t take into account tackles that you miss completely or bad reads that create overlaps.

Seyfarth is a poor edge defender due to his decision making and poor lateral movement. Specifically he rushes out of the line and often gets beaten completely by halves which then results in a 4 on 3 overlap. Often the winger scores and people blame the winger but it’s actually the men inside making poor decisions which create the overlap. He also does this on the line, rushing out and the forward or dummy half will go in in touched. These don’t count as “misses tackles” because a tackle wasn’t attempted. Even in your earlier post you mention a couple of his penalties were high shots because he had a stray arm, that’s because he’s rushing up and getting caught on the inside or outside by quicker players.

I’ve spoken to a friend who is a player a rival club about this (what they look at in defensive lines and structures) and he’s said specifically that his team identified that tendency with Seyfarth (along with some other players in the league). They have targeted him and had success with this. Also spoke about another player who they target a specific shoulder and line. But he mentioned that Seyfarth and the other player are the two easiest to exploit.

Defense is the hardest to assess stat wise because there is so much more to it than just a tackle attempt. It’s more to do with the eye test. You’ll find some of the players that are know for being terrible defenders have decent tackle efficiencies, while some of the better defenders have worst efficiencies than you’d think.

Like I said, he needs to work on decision making (not rushing, making bad reads) and work on his lateral movement, as backrowers require quick side to side movement to account for the quicker players on the edge.

As always, you’re entitled to your opinion. I’d like to be as optimistic about Seyfarth as you but I’m just going off what I’ve personally seen over his 4-5 years. Would love for him to prove me wrong this season!
Good respectful debate between CC and Charred with good opinion and stats to back up the argument.
Some others on this forum could learn from this and understand not everyone will always agree with each others opinions, but you can still have a good strong debate while remaining respectful towards each other.
 
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Great reply @Charred, that is an excellent analysis strongly backed up with data. There is a logical trail to follow if people want to debate.
We as Tigers fans have been conditioned to use emotion more than data due to the shocking performances of our club over the past quarter century. Objective analysis is better for our sanity. said mate

Great reply @Charred, that is an excellent analysis strongly backed up with data. There is a logical trail to follow if people want to debate.
We as Tigers fans have been conditioned to use emotion more than data due to the shocking performances of our club over the past quarter century. Objective analysis is better for our sanity.
Well said, hopefully 2025 is a new era for our club. No longer will we be the laughing stock of the NRL, the spooners nobody is threatened by, 2 easy points for every NRL club.
I’m excited but also wary. Bring on 2025 and beyond
 
I know I’m against the majority here, and that’s mainly because people want to be optimistic and hopeful which is fair and understandable, but I stick by my views. Credit to you, you’ve done some great analysis but you have cherry picked some stats to suit the argument without giving full context and there’s some big flaws that you probably should acknowledge.

Comparing backrowers like Fainu and Papali’i who generally play 80mins against a player who averaged 45mins and played out on the edge and middle is misleading. Really need to look at stats based on minutes not per game and consider where those minutes were played. Once you factor in average minutes and acknowledge reps (runs) the error averages are all fairly even. I don’t think errors are a big part of his game so I don’t even know why we are talking about them anyway. His issues are defense and discipline. I think most fans would agree these are his weak points.

We’ve acknowledge that he is the worst disciplined currently in the squad even by your own metrics. Talyn is just behind but he’s also 19 and only had one full year in first grade. Seyfarth has been around long enough.

I hate the tackle efficiency stat, it’s the most misleading stat in the entire game and fans seem to love it. Tackle efficiency doesn’t take into account tackles that you miss completely or bad reads that create overlaps.

Seyfarth is a poor edge defender due to his decision making and poor lateral movement. Specifically he rushes out of the line and often gets beaten completely by halves which then results in a 4 on 3 overlap. Often the winger scores and people blame the winger but it’s actually the men inside making poor decisions which create the overlap. He also does this on the line, rushing out and the forward or dummy half will go in in touched. These don’t count as “misses tackles” because a tackle wasn’t attempted. Even in your earlier post you mention a couple of his penalties were high shots because he had a stray arm, that’s because he’s rushing up and getting caught on the inside or outside by quicker players.
... Note: Post continues but I (Charred) deleted to fit 10000 character limit.
Can you please elaborate what stats I have cherry-picked, as I used every useful metric I could find on the website Legz and the NRL site. I’m assuming it probably has something to do with using per game rather than per minute or whatever. The reason I did that was because the stat was already provided for me but the "[insert stat] per minute" was a really low number (as in 0.01) and needs to be more like "minute per [insert stat]", and I couldn't be bothered doing that at the time, but I'll do it now to be transparent.

However, before I begin I will address your second point. Seyfarth played most of the second half of the year in the second row with injuries to Papali'i and Bateman's loan deal. Upon return Papali'i proceeded to play the rest of the year at Lock or in the middle, so realistically the comparison between Papali'i and Seyfarth should be pretty fair overall given they both played right 2nd row and in the middle throughout the year. Personally, I think Seyfarth is probably best used off the bench due to his versatility to play middle and edge, however, there is no suitable replacement at 2nd row as the squad currently stands.

So here were the per game stats altered to minutes.
Minutes Played: Fainu 1626, Seyfarth 1102, Papali'i 1009, Bateman 858
Minutes per try: Papali'i 201.8, Seyfarth 275.5, Fainu 352.2, Bateman (infinity as he never scored)
Minutes per line break: Papali'i 252.25, Fainu 271, Seyfarth 275.5, Bateman 858
Minutes per tackle break: Papali'i 30.6, Bateman 45.16, Fainu 46.46, Seyfarth 52.48
Minutes per offload: Bateman 37.3, Seyfarth 68.88, Papali'i 84.08, Fainu 147.82
Minutes per error: Bateman 78, Papali'i 112.1, Fainu 135.5, Seyfarth 183.67.
You said you wanted minutes per whatever stats because they are more reliable, however, this literally just makes Seyfarth look better as he averaged less minutes per game than the others.

I talked about errors as I decided to include as many data points as I thought worthwhile. Errors are similar to a penalty in giving the opposition more possession, except a penalty allows the opposition to gain 10-30m on top of what they've already gained (depending on field position). An error early in the set would pretty much give the opponent a similar field position to what they might have got in the first couple tackles + a penalty . Obviously a much greater analysis of the metres lost per error or penalty would be a better metric to use but I've only got this, so will go off that. And to clarify, yes a penalty is more detrimental than an error in almost all cases. The point of bringing in errors is while he gets a bad wrap for his penalties, he makes it up to some extent with a low error count. I agree discipline is his weak point, but I can't say for certainty I agree with the defence part (I'll elaborate later).

Yeah, 100% agree he is our worse disciplined player in the current roster. However, my main argument is that his poor discipline is comparable to many other teams worst disciplined player so I don't think we are significantly disadvantaged by it, particularly as he didn't get suspended last year and as Tucker said the two years prior to that. Every team will have a worst disciplined player.

Also in relation to your age/experience comment. JWH was old and had played 300 NRL games and he was the worst player in the comp for discipline by far, but that's the way he plays the game trying to hit hard and be an enforcer, obviously that comes with a lot of risk. Seyfarth being the workhorse and big-hearted player he is was very visibly frustrated at the performance of the team last year which contributed to his overall penalty count, same goes for Api. The penalties he conceded against our Dragons drubbing are clear examples of getting too emotional during the game, but I believe given his personality it's something he will probably try to work on over the season and something that should hopefully wane slightly with better team performances.
P.S this does not excuse some of the other downright stupid penalties he's given away but it's an explanation for why his numbers along with Api's are quite high as this would have contributed to some of the penalties.

Yeah fair enough take on the tackle efficiency stats. Typically, I don't like to solely rely on statistical analysis for NRL as it is very much a team game with so many variables. Numerous times last year I was looking at the stats (couldn't watch the game as I'm free to air only) and it showed someone playing really well, but everyone on the forum was saying how bad they were playing. However, I'm not about to review up to 2000 minutes of footage and the stats are can provide a decent generalized view of how a player performed. I'll be honest I haven't been taking notes on exactly what Seyfarth has done in every game, but I watched pretty much every highlights replay and can't remember many times seeing Seyfarth as the cause of the try for the specific reason you mentioned (admittedly, I don't remember that much), but I do remember seeing Jayden Sullivan and Adam Doueihi repeatedly rush wayyyy out of the line throughout the season. You bring up a good point with the stray arm but each time this was on his inside (you said in and out). I am very open to you providing specific examples of where we may have conceded a try as a result of this rushing, because I would like to see and I'm sure it probably has happened.

As for your NRL playing friend. I can't verify this story myself and you have made other claims without evidence (i.e top 3 for poor discipline, asked for link twice but never given), so I won't just take it at face value and accept it. However, if it is true then I would implore you to contact the club in some way so we can gain an advantage in knowing what they know and potential strategies they may have (and also so we can target this other player he talked of).

Agree with your point on assessing skill from stats. I think what you can find is their work-rate with tackles per minute and how effective they are at tackling when they actually lay a hand on the player at the very least. When you mention eye test, is this the rugby league eye test stats page? I'm sure they probably would have some good defensive analysis so I might check them out.

Agree re; decision making and lateral movement. He doesn't seem particularly fast to me, but most forwards aren't.

One final point which I find important is I think we can both agree that his effort is probably his strongest quality. However, I believe it's typically undervalued. This drive to perform and help your team out should transfer into the training paddock, which is why I believe we have seen an almost linear progression in Seyfarth's overall game year after year. This hopefully means that during the off-season and pre-season he would be working hard to improve again and take his game even further. This will only be aided by the club's faith to play him 23 games and extend him, and also his selection in Governor General's XIII (I know it's not too prestigious but you still have to be quality to get a go). His passion for the game and the club makes him a leader (evidenced by being given captaincy duties for the trial), which will give the younger players a positive role model and drive others to train at similar standards. Obviously, this is all assumption based on circumstantial evidence, but I genuinely believe he has the drive to keep improving his game for as long as he can and would have a substantial positive influence on the playing squad.
 
As great as all this was there are a couple points id contend. All the players noted spent varying time in the middle, where tackling (efficiently) is easier. This skews all their tackle efficiencies, some more than others.
Also whilst Stats lend weight to an argument they do not tell the whole story. Who they were defending against, defending next to, running off all matters.
What is there defensive role? E.g. a player leading the line speed will typically have more missed tackles. A player who wrestles exceptionally well will have a high efficiency but so to will a player who wrestles poorly as the opposition will take the tackle and the quick play the ball.

I don't want to criticise as I think you've done a great job and I agree with all your conclusions. I'm also always a fan of sticking it to people who make blatantly wrong claims. I just think there is also more than what the raw data shows when analysing a game.
Yes, I agree with all of this and expanded on it in my response to CanadianClub. Video is by far the best analytical tool, however, it requires a lot of time to sufficiently analyze so statistics are the next best thing.
Good respectful debate between CC and Charred with good opinion and stats to back up the argument.
Some others on this forum could learn from this and understand not everyone will always agree with each others opinions, but you can still have a good strong debate while remaining respectful towards each other.
Thank you, I believe it's been very constructive and insightful. CanadianClub has brought up some great points.

I typically find it hard to side with someone being belittling and insulting even if their overall argument I would support, so I try to mould myself in the way I believe is most effective.

Also thanks to everyone for their kind words on my analysis, I had a lot of fun making it.
 
Can you please elaborate what stats I have cherry-picked, as I used every useful metric I could find on the website Legz and the NRL site. I’m assuming it probably has something to do with using per game rather than per minute or whatever. The reason I did that was because the stat was already provided for me but the "[insert stat] per minute" was a really low number (as in 0.01) and needs to be more like "minute per [insert stat]", and I couldn't be bothered doing that at the time, but I'll do it now to be transparent.

However, before I begin I will address your second point. Seyfarth played most of the second half of the year in the second row with injuries to Papali'i and Bateman's loan deal. Upon return Papali'i proceeded to play the rest of the year at Lock or in the middle, so realistically the comparison between Papali'i and Seyfarth should be pretty fair overall given they both played right 2nd row and in the middle throughout the year. Personally, I think Seyfarth is probably best used off the bench due to his versatility to play middle and edge, however, there is no suitable replacement at 2nd row as the squad currently stands.

So here were the per game stats altered to minutes.
Minutes Played: Fainu 1626, Seyfarth 1102, Papali'i 1009, Bateman 858
Minutes per try: Papali'i 201.8, Seyfarth 275.5, Fainu 352.2, Bateman (infinity as he never scored)
Minutes per line break: Papali'i 252.25, Fainu 271, Seyfarth 275.5, Bateman 858
Minutes per tackle break: Papali'i 30.6, Bateman 45.16, Fainu 46.46, Seyfarth 52.48
Minutes per offload: Bateman 37.3, Seyfarth 68.88, Papali'i 84.08, Fainu 147.82
Minutes per error: Bateman 78, Papali'i 112.1, Fainu 135.5, Seyfarth 183.67.
You said you wanted minutes per whatever stats because they are more reliable, however, this literally just makes Seyfarth look better as he averaged less minutes per game than the others.

I talked about errors as I decided to include as many data points as I thought worthwhile. Errors are similar to a penalty in giving the opposition more possession, except a penalty allows the opposition to gain 10-30m on top of what they've already gained (depending on field position). An error early in the set would pretty much give the opponent a similar field position to what they might have got in the first couple tackles + a penalty . Obviously a much greater analysis of the metres lost per error or penalty would be a better metric to use but I've only got this, so will go off that. And to clarify, yes a penalty is more detrimental than an error in almost all cases. The point of bringing in errors is while he gets a bad wrap for his penalties, he makes it up to some extent with a low error count. I agree discipline is his weak point, but I can't say for certainty I agree with the defence part (I'll elaborate later).

Yeah, 100% agree he is our worse disciplined player in the current roster. However, my main argument is that his poor discipline is comparable to many other teams worst disciplined player so I don't think we are significantly disadvantaged by it, particularly as he didn't get suspended last year and as Tucker said the two years prior to that. Every team will have a worst disciplined player.

Also in relation to your age/experience comment. JWH was old and had played 300 NRL games and he was the worst player in the comp for discipline by far, but that's the way he plays the game trying to hit hard and be an enforcer, obviously that comes with a lot of risk. Seyfarth being the workhorse and big-hearted player he is was very visibly frustrated at the performance of the team last year which contributed to his overall penalty count, same goes for Api. The penalties he conceded against our Dragons drubbing are clear examples of getting too emotional during the game, but I believe given his personality it's something he will probably try to work on over the season and something that should hopefully wane slightly with better team performances.
P.S this does not excuse some of the other downright stupid penalties he's given away but it's an explanation for why his numbers along with Api's are quite high as this would have contributed to some of the penalties.

Yeah fair enough take on the tackle efficiency stats. Typically, I don't like to solely rely on statistical analysis for NRL as it is very much a team game with so many variables. Numerous times last year I was looking at the stats (couldn't watch the game as I'm free to air only) and it showed someone playing really well, but everyone on the forum was saying how bad they were playing. However, I'm not about to review up to 2000 minutes of footage and the stats are can provide a decent generalized view of how a player performed. I'll be honest I haven't been taking notes on exactly what Seyfarth has done in every game, but I watched pretty much every highlights replay and can't remember many times seeing Seyfarth as the cause of the try for the specific reason you mentioned (admittedly, I don't remember that much), but I do remember seeing Jayden Sullivan and Adam Doueihi repeatedly rush wayyyy out of the line throughout the season. You bring up a good point with the stray arm but each time this was on his inside (you said in and out). I am very open to you providing specific examples of where we may have conceded a try as a result of this rushing, because I would like to see and I'm sure it probably has happened.

As for your NRL playing friend. I can't verify this story myself and you have made other claims without evidence (i.e top 3 for poor discipline, asked for link twice but never given), so I won't just take it at face value and accept it. However, if it is true then I would implore you to contact the club in some way so we can gain an advantage in knowing what they know and potential strategies they may have (and also so we can target this other player he talked of).

Agree with your point on assessing skill from stats. I think what you can find is their work-rate with tackles per minute and how effective they are at tackling when they actually lay a hand on the player at the very least. When you mention eye test, is this the rugby league eye test stats page? I'm sure they probably would have some good defensive analysis so I might check them out.

Agree re; decision making and lateral movement. He doesn't seem particularly fast to me, but most forwards aren't.

One final point which I find important is I think we can both agree that his effort is probably his strongest quality. However, I believe it's typically undervalued. This drive to perform and help your team out should transfer into the training paddock, which is why I believe we have seen an almost linear progression in Seyfarth's overall game year after year. This hopefully means that during the off-season and pre-season he would be working hard to improve again and take his game even further. This will only be aided by the club's faith to play him 23 games and extend him, and also his selection in Governor General's XIII (I know it's not too prestigious but you still have to be quality to get a go). His passion for the game and the club makes him a leader (evidenced by being given captaincy duties for the trial), which will give the younger players a positive role model and drive others to train at similar standards. Obviously, this is all assumption based on circumstantial evidence, but I genuinely believe he has the drive to keep improving his game for as long as he can and would have a substantial positive influence on the playing squad.
that post reminded me of Derryn Hinch
 
Yeah and you need to consider the fact Aidan Sezer played 6 less games.

According to Legz:
Sezer played 1241 minutes for 18 penalties, averaging 1 penalty per 69 minutes
Seyfarth played 1102 minutes for 13 penalites, averaging 85 minutes.
Koroisau 1631 minutes for 13 penalties, 1 per 125 minutes.
Utoikamanu 1204 minutes for 13 penalties, 1 per 92 minutes.
Klemmer 850 minutes for 7 penalties (incl. 3 in one game), 1 per 121 minutes.
Naden 637 minutes for 5 penalties, 1 per 127 minutes.
Porter 457 minutes for 4 penalties, 1 per 114 minutes
TDS 257 minutes for 3 penalties, 1 per 89 minutes
Kepaoa 109 minutes for 2 penalties, 1 per 54.5 minutes.
Johannsen 26 minutes for 1 penalty.

So he came 4th, but you could probably excuse the low minutes of Johannsen and Kepaoa. Additionally, he's only a little better than TDS and Utoikamanu.
In the trial he conceded one penalty, but so did Mason, Samuela, Latu and Kit. TDS had 3!!! His penalty was for offside as well and I went and watched it back. The angle was pretty bad so I couldn't see anything but Pole and TDS were in a straight line with Seyfarth when the camera pans to them.

I would like to see where you got this Top 3 stat from because I could quite quickly find some who played a majority of matches in the season with a worse average than 84.77.
Sezer (68.9)
Townsend (83.6)
S.Walker (84.2)
JWH (45.4)
NAS (59.9)
Jake Clifford* (58.3) (8 games)
Hopgood (79.1)
There is probably many more.

Obviously, yeah you can argue that it's still not good and that's a fair enough take but there is no need to exaggerate.

I then decided lets watch every single penalty he has received last year.
Round 4 vs Eels, Dangerous tackle. Apparently high contact but he has a loose arm which grabs the shoulder of the halfback trying to step him. Another angle may be better but commentators said "not a lot in it"
Round 4 vs Eels - Grapple. I'm assuming this is putting his hand on the players head after the tackle.
Round 6 vs Dragons - Slow Peel. His arm actually got stuck under the Dragons player you can see, but he got up as quick as he could, but not quick enough for the ref.
Round 10 vs Knights - Dangerous Tackle. Loose arm again, grabs the shoulder but hits his head while he's at it.
Round 14 vs Dragons - Other. Flanagan pushed Seyfarth and Seyfarth got angry.
Round 14 vs Dragons - Other. Double movement looking to score a try, would classify this as more of an error. Showed immediate regret and slapped himself in the head multiple times.
Round 16 vs Raiders - Offside + Sin Bin. Galvin gave away a penalty, there was a quick tap and Seyfarth instinctively reacts to the movement out the corner of his eye but then pulls away immediately. I'd classify this similar to Samuela Fainu's bin earlier in the year.
Round 18 vs Storm - Slow Peel, he was kind of held down by number 12 (fainu?) but got up as soon as the ref said so.
Round 21 vs Warriors - Late Tackle. Definite poor discipline
Round 21 vs Warriors - Offside (from kick). Yeah a bit silly here, he was like 5m offside.
Round 24 vs Rabbits - Dangerous Tackle. Definitely high, but not intentional. Hit the shoulder first then bounced up, couple cm lower and he would have hit the sweet spot.
Round 24 vs Rabbits - Shoulder Charge. Jye Gray is in space, Seyfarth comes to make the tackle, last second Gray kicks, Seyfarth tries to pull out but ends up in an awkward position as he was running it fast and tries to hug/deflect off Gray. I remember being at the game and being annoyed at the refs for that. Not poor discipline just unfortunate.
Round 25 vs Manly - Dangerous Tackle. Player runs and ducks slightly into his arm. But that's like the 3rd time I've seen a lazy arm cause a high tackle from a player stepping back on the inside.

So out of the penalties I'd say 1, 2, 4, 5, 9, 10, 13 are due to poor discipline as well as his sin bin against the dogs. He was probably unlucky with 3 of them (3, 8, 12) which will happen to everyone and double movement is a kind of annoying penalty due to him trying too hard. His penalties overall weren't that bad either which is why he was only on report 3 times (less than Api, Sezer, Klemmer).

His discipline, particularly with the lazy arms and also his responses to getting provoked (dogs, dragons games) needs improvement but I don't think it's too bad or too hard to improve overall.
Is there also a stat for stupid penalties?
 
Good respectful debate between CC and Charred with good opinion and stats to back up the argument.
Some others on this forum could learn from this and understand not everyone will always agree with each others opinions, but you can still have a good strong debate while remaining respectful towards each other.
Thanks dad!
 
Watching Alex Seyfarth and Alex Twal play is almost the same as watching a Laurel and Hardy episode. In the last game, not to mention throughout the season, Seyfarth's Laurel and Hardy tendencies were on full display. He managed to injure himself and two of his own teammates in a single tackle with his huge, Azog-orc-like head. Now, whenever I see Seyfarth get the ball, I immediately assume he will drop it he consistently proves me right.
 

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