Andrew Johns protest over Pole sinbin

The over the top policing of the head high tackle rule has been a stain on the game. We are going down the same path rugby has adopted and their interpretation of what a legal tackle is , and that has nearly killed their game.

Of course the people at HQ will put it back on the old chestnut “duty of care” and the legal mine field that the game may face. Yes there is no place for the stiff arm, the intentional swing arm and the shoulder charge to the head, but when a player hits a player high when they are falling, or the attacking players ducks his head into the defender or a defenders arm bounces off the attacker chest and gets him in the head..it’s play on. The bottom line it is a high contact sport
 
Tucker said:
I love listening to blokes in their 50’s reminiscing about how pissed they used to get. Joey still talks about his nights out….
They are clowns. Good players, but dumb.
As an example, a few years back Joey was jumping up and down, ranting and raving, worse than he is now about the refs, and screaming that we must protect halves at all costs. According to him they were constantly being taken out late and off the ball, whether passing or kicking.
Imagine my surprise to hear him putting shit on halves on the weekend saying they are soft as they don’t even get hit anymore….
Click to expand...
Yes I remember, protect Thurston at all costs.
 
I think in ruling a head high, they need to look at the movement or momentum of the defender, whilst I understand everyone was up in arms re Latrell he did move his head away and continue to drive forwards with his shoulder. If duty of care came into it, he would brace and left Faalogo fall into his shoulder with no issue. Not a Sin Bin but the action def warranted a pen and he is suspended at least 1 match.
whilst a softer play, there really was no need for Pole to lead in and up with his shoulder. Similarly he could have stepped left beforehand and braced for the impact to a similar effect to what he achieved by driving left with his shoulder. Though not suspended I agree with the penalty in the game.
I think for managing careless and reckless efforts. They should look at bringing in a forced interchange / rule out for the remainder of the match instead of the sin bin. (Send offs are still send offs.) I’m talking about a play where a player fails a HIA and is ruled out for the remainder of the match due to the negligence of a player or impact of a foul play. At that time, they could advise the offender they are out of the match. The game stays at 13 a piece but there is still a disadvantage in losing that player and being down to 16 for the remainder of the match, but it does even up the availability in both rosters for the remainder of the match.
 
Thats Joel caines thoughts too
Losing an interchange in the 5th minute instead of a binning is huge....its probably not penalising anyone though in the 70th minute
 
Flippedy said:
I know this probably won’t go down well, but sometimes I feel sorry for the refs as well. They are given an ever changing blueprint week after week from Anusley or some other knob telling them what to do about this, what to do about that, you must crackdown on this, make sure you don’t let this happen blah blah.

I know there is always those refs who support the crackdowns and relish in punishing teams every week, but I’m pretty sure some of them are just as confused as the players and supporters are, when they’re trying to control a game the way they’ve been told to or even ordered to by those above, or perhaps in some cases the betting agencies 😏

What pisses me off most is how quickly and easily the officiating will change back to being a good standard come Origin time. Three almost pointless games a year are officiated well, while the whole comp has to suffer under the insane rulings, incompetence and inconsistencies in just about every game each week for 26 rounds!
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Well said. With the decisions being made, I guarantee that the standards they are following are unclear. And they're unclear because they are being implemented on the fly with not enough time for training of staff nor enough time to compile adequate examples to set a standard.

The Bunker has become overused, no doubt because of pressure from gambling companies. It is now so far from what it's original use was meant to be.

Refs have a very tough job. There should be two of them on the field imo. They'll still make mistakes but players do it all the time, and you don't see refs blowing up at them
 
These head high crackdowns are likely being advised through lawyers.
Everyone needs to realise that head injuries are a global concern and softening the impacts of full contact/collision sports are the easiest ways to mitigate lawsuits in the immediate term.
It’s correct to be worried about how these rules are wrecking the game, but the alternative is we have no game. We’ve known about CTE and it’s affects for years now, yet coaches have refused to adjust tackling styles to help eradicate direct forceful contact with the head.
Dinosaur commentators need to stop bitching about penalties and actually help come up with new strategies and processes to wipe out these tackles.
This is not going away.
 
Lestronge said:
I think the reason he said “we are all in this together/ the players need to be accountable as well” is rhetoric and speech around litigation .
It’s the same as any company . They’re all worried about HSE until they look at the financial impact. My guess is major sponsors and channel 9 have told Abdo to fix it , and he has .
But he can’t come right out and say “ , yes it was a blitz , we spoke to some HSE guys and they’ve said we had to do it “ he has to deflect onto the players and whoever , and speak in riddles .
There would 💯 be in the nrl a section or group who are dedicated to reducing not only the litigation possible, but also counting the collisions and head injuries . But because they’re probably conventional HR people they don’t realise the really bad head injuries are like the defender getting kneed in the head by Tuponuia . Not Hazleton getting a slight rub of the face from a shoulder that’s bounced up off a ball .
I think there’s a whole lot of assumption going on and implied knowledge in the nrl IMO. There’s probably that section in consultation with some doctor who’s adamant this is the way to move forward . Because really optimally these people ,if they were really asked would say “ shut down the nrl” .
And because of this their opinions are going to be biased towards hypochondria. The issue is the elephant in the room is the NFL would basically get opinions of doctors like the guy in Any given Sunday , ehich was proven by those investigations , so now everything is swayed the other way .
It’s a mess and will continue to be , until everyone is intellectually honest , and removes thier biases and agendas .
Click to expand...
Iv no doubt your spot on, someone I saw made a great point I think on 360 funny enough, can't remember which journo, to paraphrase they said the issues and legal issues the N.F.L had to deal with won't affect the N.R.L, they were saying that the N.F.L had the data about CTE and other brain trauma and kept it locked away, where the N.R.L were totally open and transparent with the whole thing. Someone on the forum also made a great point that the players are consenting adults and know the risks. If a player is willing to put their safety on the line to play a sport, mind you that they are mostly well paid to perform, then who is any doctor, lawyer or N.R.L governing body to say no. As long as their of sound mind, they're adults. They said and I totally agree, all juniors by their parents and part of every registered N.R.L contract as an adult should have a stipulation they understand the risks, have a list of issues head trauma, other injuries that may or may not be lifelong, that they know and understand the risks and by signing the contract will not hold the N.R.L liable for any injury or life long illness incurred through their time playing, whilst uncontracted at a club or in retirement. Make it iron clad, it's the only way to fix it. The N.R.L are petrified of the lawyers so they've brought in doctors to help to protect them in a way legally, but the doctors know medicine with no concept of playing an extremely fast sport with massive bodies having huge collisions. By bringing in doctors they're objective is to protect the players, left alone the doctors will just turn it in to Oz tag to meet they're objective because they're objective has no context within the game. I just think that all players from juniors right through should be made to sign iron clad legal documents that accept the risk and won't hold the game or clubs responsible obviously unless of gross negligence, if the players are too young the parents can. Then we can finally bugger the doctors and lawyers off and the game can just be the game again.
 
I can’t believe the NRL has not tried ( maybe they have ) to get ex players like Sterlo or a Johns to do the jobs that some of the dills at the nrl have , they are smart people , Johns was 100% correct with his blow up but we have people running the game who just make shit up on the run , Putting a player in the bin for a high shot I have know problem but what we seen was just stupid stain on the game , a falling player below waist line gets a slap on the way down probable accident, play on , if it is deemed that the defender purposely swung an arm you would be able to see it in most cases ,
2 ). Play the balls again penalty a few weeks back now nothing , players are just rolling it under the leg again , again penalty and it will stop ,
3) forward passes , gee in our game there were min 6 that were just straight up , the coaches are telling players to do flat passes and they are going forward , touch judge should be able to just raise the flag , ref stoos game on next tackle touch judge on mic forward pass , simple go back turn the pill over to the other team and play on , the forward passes will go away real quick ,Hayne let about 4 go in attack so they know when to throw them , it’s when the pressure is on the defending team and the ref when he is trying to watch everything .
Just my thoughts
 
liltiger said:
Iv no doubt your spot on, someone I saw made a great point I think on 360 funny enough, can't remember which journo, to paraphrase they said the issues and legal issues the N.F.L had to deal with won't affect the N.R.L, they were saying that the N.F.L had the data about CTE and other brain trauma and kept it locked away, where the N.R.L were totally open and transparent with the whole thing. Someone on the forum also made a great point that the players are consenting adults and know the risks. If a player is willing to put their safety on the line to play a sport, mind you that they are mostly well paid to perform, then who is any doctor, lawyer or N.R.L governing body to say no. As long as their of sound mind, they're adults. They said and I totally agree, all juniors by their parents and part of every registered N.R.L contract as an adult should have a stipulation they understand the risks, have a list of issues head trauma, other injuries that may or may not be lifelong, that they know and understand the risks and by signing the contract will not hold the N.R.L liable for any injury or life long illness incurred through their time playing, whilst uncontracted at a club or in retirement. Make it iron clad, it's the only way to fix it. The N.R.L are petrified of the lawyers so they've brought in doctors to help to protect them in a way legally, but the doctors know medicine with no concept of playing an extremely fast sport with massive bodies having huge collisions. By bringing in doctors they're objective is to protect the players, left alone the doctors will just turn it in to Oz tag to meet they're objective because they're objective has no context within the game. I just think that all players from juniors right through should be made to sign iron clad legal documents that accept the risk and won't hold the game or clubs responsible obviously unless of gross negligence, if the players are too young the parents can. Then we can finally bugger the doctors and lawyers off and the game can just be the game again.
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Agree , there are more hits to the head , nose , jaw , cheek , eye , neck in boxing , and I love boxing , they the boxers know what can happen if hit hard enough , remember our players mostly get up and walk off for a HIA , if a boxer is hit hard enough he / she goes to sleep , if your an adult , you sign up to play , all care taken but responsibilities should remain with the players , bring in rules to protect like dirty high shot , suspend them for 10 matches , that knee shot last weeks game 10 weeks , it will stop the dirty stuff but allow a tough game to still be played
 
Tucker said:
These head high crackdowns are likely being advised through lawyers.
Everyone needs to realise that head injuries are a global concern and softening the impacts of full contact/collision sports are the easiest ways to mitigate lawsuits in the immediate term.
It’s correct to be worried about how these rules are wrecking the game, but the alternative is we have no game. We’ve known about CTE and it’s affects for years now, yet coaches have refused to adjust tackling styles to help eradicate direct forceful contact with the head.
Dinosaur commentators need to stop bitching about penalties and actually help come up with new strategies and processes to wipe out these tackles.
This is not going away.
Click to expand...
But isn’t the biggest cause of CTE not from direct contact but from wiplash of the head causing the brain to rattle within the skull.
Wouldn’t a sound hit to the chest / collar of a player cause more impact as the head falls forward first then back as opposed to direct contact immediately forcing the head backwards?
 
The NRL is reportedly set to recruit a group of experienced former referees in a bid to eradicate inconsistencies in the Bunker and put an end to video refereeing criticisms.

That is according to The Telegraph’s Phil Rothfield and The Australian’s Andrew Webster, who revealed the NRL’s plan to hire ex-officials Matt Cecchin and Ben Cummins.

That seasoned duo will be the first two retired referees targeted in the move to join the Bunker on a full-time basis, responding to backlash after 18 players were sin binned in Round 8.

“It’s a story all rugby league fans will be happy,” Rothfield said on the Off The Record podcast.

“The NRL is taking steps to hire three or four full-time specialists, not current referees, to be Bunker specialists.



“Refs like Matt Cecchin and Ben Cummins retired and were basically lost to the game.

“They’re the sort of people who will be encouraged to take on the Bunker role. There will be intense training to bring these operators up to speed.

“We will get more consistency with fewer people making decisions.”

NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo fronted media on Monday evening, denying there was a high contact crackdown after the staggering amount of players being marched.

However, speaking on NRL360 on Monday night, he did admit the game can get better collectively to protect the players, while maintaining the integrity of the on-field product.

“Let me first say it hasn’t been a crackdown at all. There’s been no policy shift. It’s always been illegal to tackle high and we’ve been sin-binning and penalising high tackles for the game going back decades,” he said.

“We’ve been really consistent around this the last couple of years. We’re not going to apologise or take a backwards step for protecting players from head high shots.

“However, what I will say is that we’ve seen a couple of errors. We’ve seen a couple of judgment calls that perhaps weren’t correct and it was important to acknowledge that.”

For Webster, the NRL’s decision to employ former referees will finally bring the “consistency” fans have been crying out for.

“For a professional code like the NRL it’s been very amateurish,” he said.

“Dedicated Bunker officials will bring consistency. Having people like Cummins and Cecchin involved brings experience that is hard to find.”

While Rothfield added: “They’ve got a major issue with fans losing confidence in the match officiating... We can’t have another weekend with 18 players sin-binned.”
 
liltiger said:
Iv no doubt your spot on, someone I saw made a great point I think on 360 funny enough, can't remember which journo, to paraphrase they said the issues and legal issues the N.F.L had to deal with won't affect the N.R.L, they were saying that the N.F.L had the data about CTE and other brain trauma and kept it locked away, where the N.R.L were totally open and transparent with the whole thing. Someone on the forum also made a great point that the players are consenting adults and know the risks. If a player is willing to put their safety on the line to play a sport, mind you that they are mostly well paid to perform, then who is any doctor, lawyer or N.R.L governing body to say no. As long as their of sound mind, they're adults. They said and I totally agree, all juniors by their parents and part of every registered N.R.L contract as an adult should have a stipulation they understand the risks, have a list of issues head trauma, other injuries that may or may not be lifelong, that they know and understand the risks and by signing the contract will not hold the N.R.L liable for any injury or life long illness incurred through their time playing, whilst uncontracted at a club or in retirement. Make it iron clad, it's the only way to fix it. The N.R.L are petrified of the lawyers so they've brought in doctors to help to protect them in a way legally, but the doctors know medicine with no concept of playing an extremely fast sport with massive bodies having huge collisions. By bringing in doctors they're objective is to protect the players, left alone the doctors will just turn it in to Oz tag to meet they're objective because they're objective has no context within the game. I just think that all players from juniors right through should be made to sign iron clad legal documents that accept the risk and won't hold the game or clubs responsible obviously unless of gross negligence, if the players are too young the parents can. Then we can finally bugger the doctors and lawyers off and the game can just be the game again.
Click to expand...
You make it sound like the doctors and lawyers are the bad guys.
They dont hate the sport. Both professions are risk adverse in nature and are trying to protect interests.
The doctors are also dealing with ex players from all levels in their 50's who are vegetables or are well on their way to being so. They are panicking a bit and the governing bodies are over reacting, but at the heart of it, they are the only ones who really give a shit about player wellfare.

When I came through, if you got knocked out for a few seconds, officially you were a bit dazed....but right to keep trucking on. Later that night youd tell your mates you couldnt remember large parts of the game and theyd all laugh their heads off and praise you for being a madman and as tough as nails.
Now as I approach my half century, I notice things....If I run into someone on the street I havent interracted with for a few months, I have an awkward moment as I try to remember their name. I have wild mood swings not caused by any big events. Im very quick to anger when I was traditionally methodical in assessing a situation before acting. I often choose not to be in large groups anymore as the noise drives me insane. Maybe thats just getting older, maybe its not.

I think something needs to be done. The shoulder charge was banned 12 or 13 years ago yet 3 players were found guilty of it this past weekend, all hitting an attacker in the head and all recieving 3 week bans for it...13 other players were either banned or fined for high contact in the tackle. The week before we saw a few bans and over $12K in fines for the same. The punishments arent working. Coaches and trainers dont give a shit. Clearly they dont. The NRL has to take action and make a stand. Unfortunately we the fans are who suffers as we never get to watch games with full strength teams playing each other.
 
Needaname said:
But isn’t the biggest cause of CTE not from direct contact but from wiplash of the head causing the brain to rattle within the skull.
Wouldn’t a sound hit to the chest / collar of a player cause more impact as the head falls forward first then back as opposed to direct contact immediately forcing the head backwards?
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting its safer for them to be hit directly in the head?
 
innsaneink said:
The NRL is reportedly set to recruit a group of experienced former referees in a bid to eradicate inconsistencies in the Bunker and put an end to video refereeing criticisms.

That is according to The Telegraph’s Phil Rothfield and The Australian’s Andrew Webster, who revealed the NRL’s plan to hire ex-officials Matt Cecchin and Ben Cummins.

That seasoned duo will be the first two retired referees targeted in the move to join the Bunker on a full-time basis, responding to backlash after 18 players were sin binned in Round 8.

“It’s a story all rugby league fans will be happy,” Rothfield said on the Off The Record podcast.

“The NRL is taking steps to hire three or four full-time specialists, not current referees, to be Bunker specialists.



“Refs like Matt Cecchin and Ben Cummins retired and were basically lost to the game.

“They’re the sort of people who will be encouraged to take on the Bunker role. There will be intense training to bring these operators up to speed.

“We will get more consistency with fewer people making decisions.”

NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo fronted media on Monday evening, denying there was a high contact crackdown after the staggering amount of players being marched.

However, speaking on NRL360 on Monday night, he did admit the game can get better collectively to protect the players, while maintaining the integrity of the on-field product.

“Let me first say it hasn’t been a crackdown at all. There’s been no policy shift. It’s always been illegal to tackle high and we’ve been sin-binning and penalising high tackles for the game going back decades,” he said.

“We’ve been really consistent around this the last couple of years. We’re not going to apologise or take a backwards step for protecting players from head high shots.

“However, what I will say is that we’ve seen a couple of errors. We’ve seen a couple of judgment calls that perhaps weren’t correct and it was important to acknowledge that.”

For Webster, the NRL’s decision to employ former referees will finally bring the “consistency” fans have been crying out for.

“For a professional code like the NRL it’s been very amateurish,” he said.

“Dedicated Bunker officials will bring consistency. Having people like Cummins and Cecchin involved brings experience that is hard to find.”

While Rothfield added: “They’ve got a major issue with fans losing confidence in the match officiating... We can’t have another weekend with 18 players sin-binned.”
Click to expand...

Both would be ideal for the bunker,Cecchin was one of the best referees in the last 30 years,sure he would make some mistakes but he was impartial and 1000% fair.
 
Tucker said:
They dont hate the sport. Both professions are risk adverse in nature and are trying to protect interests.
The doctors are also dealing with ex players from all levels in their 50's who are vegetables or are well on their way to being so. They are panicking a bit and the governing bodies are over reacting, but at the heart of it, they are the only ones who really give a shit about player wellfare.

When I came through, if you got knocked out for a few seconds, officially you were a bit dazed....but right to keep trucking on. Later that night youd tell your mates you couldnt remember large parts of the game and theyd all laugh their heads off and praise you for being a madman and as tough as nails.
Now as I approach my half century, I notice things....If I run into someone on the street I havent interracted with for a few months, I have an awkward moment as I try to remember their name. I have wild mood swings not caused by any big events. Im very quick to anger when I was traditionally methodical in assessing a situation before acting. I often choose not to be in large groups anymore as the noise drives me insane. Maybe thats just getting older, maybe its not.

I think something needs to be done. The shoulder charge was banned 12 or 13 years ago yet 3 players were found guilty of it this past weekend, all hitting an attacker in the head and all recieving 3 week bans for it...13 other players were either banned or fined for high contact in the tackle. The week before we saw a few bans and over $12K in fines for the same. The punishments arent working. Coaches and trainers dont give a shit. Clearly they dont. The NRL has to take action and make a stand. Unfortunately we the fans are who suffers as we never get to watch games with full strength teams playing each other.
Click to expand...
thanks for sharing
 
Tucker said:
You make it sound like the doctors and lawyers are the bad guys.
They dont hate the sport. Both professions are risk adverse in nature and are trying to protect interests.
The doctors are also dealing with ex players from all levels in their 50's who are vegetables or are well on their way to being so. They are panicking a bit and the governing bodies are over reacting, but at the heart of it, they are the only ones who really give a shit about player wellfare.

When I came through, if you got knocked out for a few seconds, officially you were a bit dazed....but right to keep trucking on. Later that night youd tell your mates you couldnt remember large parts of the game and theyd all laugh their heads off and praise you for being a madman and as tough as nails.
Now as I approach my half century, I notice things....If I run into someone on the street I havent interracted with for a few months, I have an awkward moment as I try to remember their name. I have wild mood swings not caused by any big events. Im very quick to anger when I was traditionally methodical in assessing a situation before acting. I often choose not to be in large groups anymore as the noise drives me insane. Maybe thats just getting older, maybe its not.

I think something needs to be done. The shoulder charge was banned 12 or 13 years ago yet 3 players were found guilty of it this past weekend, all hitting an attacker in the head and all recieving 3 week bans for it...13 other players were either banned or fined for high contact in the tackle. The week before we saw a few bans and over $12K in fines for the same. The punishments arent working. Coaches and trainers dont give a shit. Clearly they dont. The NRL has to take action and make a stand. Unfortunately we the fans are who suffers as we never get to watch games with full strength teams playing each other.
Click to expand...
I pray that it doesn't get any worse for you Tuck, you should get checked out immediately, thank F my choice of sport was soccer.
 
innsaneink said:
The NRL is reportedly set to recruit a group of experienced former referees in a bid to eradicate inconsistencies in the Bunker and put an end to video refereeing criticisms.

That is according to The Telegraph’s Phil Rothfield and The Australian’s Andrew Webster, who revealed the NRL’s plan to hire ex-officials Matt Cecchin and Ben Cummins.

That seasoned duo will be the first two retired referees targeted in the move to join the Bunker on a full-time basis, responding to backlash after 18 players were sin binned in Round 8.

“It’s a story all rugby league fans will be happy,” Rothfield said on the Off The Record podcast.

“The NRL is taking steps to hire three or four full-time specialists, not current referees, to be Bunker specialists.



“Refs like Matt Cecchin and Ben Cummins retired and were basically lost to the game.

“They’re the sort of people who will be encouraged to take on the Bunker role. There will be intense training to bring these operators up to speed.

“We will get more consistency with fewer people making decisions.”

NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo fronted media on Monday evening, denying there was a high contact crackdown after the staggering amount of players being marched.

However, speaking on NRL360 on Monday night, he did admit the game can get better collectively to protect the players, while maintaining the integrity of the on-field product.

“Let me first say it hasn’t been a crackdown at all. There’s been no policy shift. It’s always been illegal to tackle high and we’ve been sin-binning and penalising high tackles for the game going back decades,” he said.

“We’ve been really consistent around this the last couple of years. We’re not going to apologise or take a backwards step for protecting players from head high shots.

“However, what I will say is that we’ve seen a couple of errors. We’ve seen a couple of judgment calls that perhaps weren’t correct and it was important to acknowledge that.”

For Webster, the NRL’s decision to employ former referees will finally bring the “consistency” fans have been crying out for.

“For a professional code like the NRL it’s been very amateurish,” he said.

“Dedicated Bunker officials will bring consistency. Having people like Cummins and Cecchin involved brings experience that is hard to find.”

While Rothfield added: “They’ve got a major issue with fans losing confidence in the match officiating... We can’t have another weekend with 18 players sin-binned.”
Click to expand...
I'd be shocked if Cecchin was to come back to the game. He left as he was disillusioned with many of the directives from above. Why some of those above him have moved on, some are also still there.
 
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