ARLC scraps anthem

[bptiger]

Funny how they don’t mind taking there money. And they wonder why this country is divided, they want every thing there way.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Lets shut this thread down now lads,so far its been fairly civil for such a divisive topic, the only thing that happens from here is the idiot fringe, from both sides get involved.
Respect their right to protest, think that they are wrong, won't be watching it.

And there it is .... are you the direct descendant of Nostradamus?

 

[twentyforty]

Advance Australia Fair, Waltzing Matilda or Song of Australia? When one of those songs was chosen by all Australians we were told by Gough Whitlam that the anthem would be a "symbolic expression of our national pride and dignity".
We obviously believed that to be the case at least until the last 20 years or so.
So what has happened since then?

 

[watersider]

The National Anthem arguments are dumb. It should only be played when two countries face off or a national day of significance ie Anzac Day.

But isn't this discussion about a certain race not singing the anthem ? So that won't change if it's a match of significance or not. They won't be singing on Anzac day mate.

Yet many aboriginal Australians volunteers served their nation in major wars and disembarked to so often be treated very differently to their service brothers in arms upon returning across our wide land. This occurred in many ways, including segregation (apartheid) and not being able to vote until about half way through our nation's involvement in the Vietnam war. This is not ancient history, as I am now 54 and as with the above, even first contact with some remote indigenous peoples has occurred during my time.

If you are going to bring up prejudices against the indigenous, then I think it only fair that I bring up the prejudices for the indigenous. If you have the time to read the list, I will find out all the entitlements . . . from 100% indigenous, all the way down to 1/128th part indigenous. I will have to find out everything they are entitled to, because I am unaware of the full list of handouts, because, well, I'm not indigenous.
That's not racist, is it ?

I don't think it's racist, but I think it ignores the many disadvantages that Indigenous people have endured and continue to endure. Maybe that last part is contentious but I think everyone (including the government) has acknowledged significant mistreatment of the past which continues to have ramifications today. I suppose your point would be valid if these policies had somehow created some Indigenous elite class which ruled it over all of us. Unfortunately, the reality is nothing like that.

 

[watersider]

My issue with this is that before Colin Kap started taking a knee, none of these protesting Johnny come lately’s had the foresight to think of this themselves. Instead they are riding on Kap’s coattails, and worst of all, trying to make out that the idea is original.

Even if that is true, which the Joe Williams post proves wrong, I don't think protest has to be original to be valid. If people can't do anything valid unless it is completely without precedent then there would be no valid actions. We all copy, we're all influenced by others, unfortunately we're all too influenced by Americans.

 

[watersider]

To me it’s not the use or overuse that’s the issue. It’s that yet again we appease the loud voice. I won’t be watching.
Maybe I could protest about ‘welcome to country’ being rammed down my throat at every opening of an envelope

The event has lost me as a viewer. It's just divisive bulldust to me.

100% agree and it’s just a pity that these young indigenous players are too naive to realise they are being used as pawns in a game. A game that is creating ill will that does not need to exist

Mate it’s not just indigenous. It’s LGBT , women’s movement , various ethnicities, religious sects . Political parties , anti Vaxers , climate change .etc.
Just by simply asking the question . How come you’re considered racist ,prejudice , homophobe ,climate denier .... just because you believe everyone should be included . It just leads to perpetual screaming matches where the info goes straight over everyone’s head. Zero desire for common ground and true reconciliation. Everyone wasn’t thier time in the sun . And because it this , it becomes a war of attrition , where any ground lost or won , however trivial ,is considered a Huge victory or defeat.
Unfortunately the inmates have started to get control of the asylum.

I think that argument is like saying people who want lower levels of migration in Australia are racist or wrong because there are also right wing racist nationalists who make that argument. You have to take arguments and people as they are, not try and group them with others and dismiss them all. Both the left and the right do this sort of generalising and dismissing of arguments too often (as racist or prejudicial on the right, and as socialist PC on the left), this is what gets people upset. We're not talking about LGBTQI, feminism, 'various ethnicities', religious groups, anti-vaxers; we're talking about the Indigenous protest of the national anthem and they have valid reasons for protesting. The merit of the other protests isn't something I know about and I don't think it's relevant to this protest. Better to avoid generalising.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

To me it’s not the use or overuse that’s the issue. It’s that yet again we appease the loud voice. I won’t be watching.
Maybe I could protest about ‘welcome to country’ being rammed down my throat at every opening of an envelope

The event has lost me as a viewer. It's just divisive bulldust to me.

100% agree and it’s just a pity that these young indigenous players are too naive to realise they are being used as pawns in a game. A game that is creating ill will that does not need to exist

Mate it’s not just indigenous. It’s LGBT , women’s movement , various ethnicities, religious sects . Political parties , anti Vaxers , climate change .etc.
Just by simply asking the question . How come you’re considered racist ,prejudice , homophobe ,climate denier .... just because you believe everyone should be included . It just leads to perpetual screaming matches where the info goes straight over everyone’s head. Zero desire for common ground and true reconciliation. Everyone wasn’t thier time in the sun . And because it this , it becomes a war of attrition , where any ground lost or won , however trivial ,is considered a Huge victory or defeat.
Unfortunately the inmates have started to get control of the asylum.

I think that argument is like saying people who want lower levels of migration in Australia are racist or wrong because there are also right wing racist nationalists who make that argument. You have to take arguments and people as they are, not try and group them with others and dismiss them all. Both the left and the right do this sort of generalising and dismissing of arguments too often (as racist or prejudicial on the right, and as socialist PC on the left), this is what gets people upset. We're not talking about LGBTQI, feminism, 'various ethnicities', religious groups, anti-vaxers; we're talking about the Indigenous protest of the national anthem and they have valid reasons for protesting. The merit of the other protests isn't something I know about and I don't think it's relevant to this protest. Better to avoid generalising.

? Pardon ? I don't follow . You've done exactly what I said people do , and projected your own ideas on to what I said . And not actually read my point. Way to go ! This is what I've been saying . Nothing gets heard . It's all just noise in the atmosphere. And now you dismiss this idea and notion , that the search for common ground is becoming a waste of time. It is all linked .
People are tribalistic by nature , and with social media , it has become extremely easy for everybody to find Thier applicable echo chamber . My point is directly related to a larger cultural issue where common ground is impossible to find . Of which , the anthem is just 1 of many issues .

 

[Deleted member 3518]

To me it’s not the use or overuse that’s the issue. It’s that yet again we appease the loud voice. I won’t be watching.
Maybe I could protest about ‘welcome to country’ being rammed down my throat at every opening of an envelope

The event has lost me as a viewer. It's just divisive bulldust to me.

100% agree and it’s just a pity that these young indigenous players are too naive to realise they are being used as pawns in a game. A game that is creating ill will that does not need to exist

Mate it’s not just indigenous. It’s LGBT , women’s movement , various ethnicities, religious sects . Political parties , anti Vaxers , climate change .etc.
Just by simply asking the question . How come you’re considered racist ,prejudice , homophobe ,climate denier .... just because you believe everyone should be included . It just leads to perpetual screaming matches where the info goes straight over everyone’s head. Zero desire for common ground and true reconciliation. Everyone wasn’t thier time in the sun . And because it this , it becomes a war of attrition , where any ground lost or won , however trivial ,is considered a Huge victory or defeat.
Unfortunately the inmates have started to get control of the asylum.

I think that argument is like saying people who want lower levels of migration in Australia are racist or wrong because there are also right wing racist nationalists who make that argument. You have to take arguments and people as they are, not try and group them with others and dismiss them all. Both the left and the right do this sort of generalising and dismissing of arguments too often (as racist or prejudicial on the right, and as socialist PC on the left), this is what gets people upset. We're not talking about LGBTQI, feminism, 'various ethnicities', religious groups, anti-vaxers; we're talking about the Indigenous protest of the national anthem and they have valid reasons for protesting. The merit of the other protests isn't something I know about and I don't think it's relevant to this protest. Better to avoid generalising.

Also . This isn't an argument mate . It's a huge cultural shift that has plenty of smarter people than me extremely worried. People like Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson. And like most things , as you said , a lot of it originated in the US. The lack of intelligent debate , replaced with grotesque accusations that distort any truth . And both those dudes are highly controversial. I don't agree with everything they say , but the desire for true freedom of speech is 1 of them .
Only through conversation and learning can we ever hope to evolve. This swings both ways. Aboriginals and leftists need to understand , some of these things are important to many people , despite the atrocities that happened to them.
It has been proven beyond a shadow of doubt that it's extremely rare for anybody to truely care about anyone else outside of Thier existence. You can have a strong view on concepts sure , but I mean actually care. This would be crippling if it was so . To have the empathy to mourn everyone else's loss.
So how can anyone just assume that because they've had a tough go , that people will care . And should care ? It's not realistic . This is where these movements fall down . They're missing this fundamental fact . Which is basic empathy is hugely important . But everyone just has the "my stuff is more important than your stuff " idea. And around and around we go .

 

[happy_tiger]

The late Peter Norman 200 metres 1968
Shows where Australian athletics is at …52 years later and it is still our national record

Not just athletics happy.

The late Ken Irvine was probably the fastest Australian to play rugby league and he debuted 62 years ago. He ran 100 yards in 9.3 seconds in 1961. Still holds the try scoring record.

I should add that Mike Cleary who played for Souths and Australia is supposed to have run 100 yards in the same time and is reported to have beaten Irvine in a match race. Again he was playing in the early 1960s.

Unfortunately ..those gents tan in the time of yards and not metres

My Grandfather used to tell me stories of Hector Hogan as well

 

[happy_tiger]

The late Peter Norman 200 metres 1968
Shows where Australian athletics is at …52 years later and it is still our national record

Not just athletics happy.

The late Ken Irvine was probably the fastest Australian to play rugby league and he debuted 62 years ago. He ran 100 yards in 9.3 seconds in 1961. Still holds the try scoring record.

I should add that Mike Cleary who played for Souths and Australia is supposed to have run 100 yards in the same time and is reported to have beaten Irvine in a match race. Again he was playing in the early 1960s.

Unfortunately ..those gents tan in the time of yards and not metres

My Grandfather used to tell me stories of Hector Hogan as well

Died before his prime at 29 of Leukaemia

 

[Geo]

To sing or not sing the Anthem really is an issue blown out of all proportion IMO...it's become a thing...

Wasn't so long ago that teams representing there country stood in silence while it was being played or only a few sung..no big deal..

Then it became vogue..The Australian cricket team for eg not as far back as Steve Waugh hardly ever sung or just hummed along...but they stood there shoulder to shoulder ..did that make them any less proud or Un Australian...don't think so..

 

[happy_tiger]

To sing or not sing the Anthem really is an issue blown out of all proportion IMO...it's become a thing...

Wasn't so long ago that teams representing there country stood in silence while it was being played or only a few sung..no big deal..

Then it became vogue..The Australian cricket team for eg not as far back as Steve Waugh hardly ever sung or just hummed along...but they stood there shoulder to shoulder ..did that make them any less proud or Un Australian...don't think so..

They were out of this world ...that's why

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Well if we're talking changing the anthem for accuracy, I'd go for Snouts in the Trough or Hungry Jack's Carpark by Frenzal Rhomb.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

To sing or not sing the Anthem really is an issue blown out of all proportion IMO...it's become a thing...

Wasn't so long ago that teams representing there country stood in silence while it was being played or only a few sung..no big deal..

Then it became vogue..The Australian cricket team for eg not as far back as Steve Waugh hardly ever sung or just hummed along...but they stood there shoulder to shoulder ..did that make them any less proud or Un Australian...don't think so..

That's because it's Un-Australian to dump on winners. You wait until they bottle it and then lay the boot in.

 

[tbones10]

Lets shut this thread down now lads,so far its been fairly civil for such a divisive topic, the only thing that happens from here is the idiot fringe, from both sides get involved.
Respect their right to protest, think that they are wrong, won't be watching it.


You want to stop discussion? Fair enough. But remember today they come after your anthem , tomorrow they’ll come after your t bone steak mate.

Mate if writing 100,000 posts on this website would change a cultural view point, I would, I for one like our anthem, I believe in equality, I cherish our flag and I love my wife and kids. But this website is a fan forum for followers of the mighty West Tigers.
I also read The Roar, some good articles, most better than than hack Crawley and his unbridled Bunnies fetish. Any who that site doesn't have a common thread that holds them together (West Tigers) and the bile and narrow mindedness from both sides is distressing to say the least, and I would hate to see that spread to this site and drive a wedge between us and what we share.
West Tigers to win 2020 at $26,00 I'm putting my money where my mouth is, I also forgot to mention I love a punt.

 

[TCL]

To sing or not sing the Anthem really is an issue blown out of all proportion IMO...it's become a thing...

Wasn't so long ago that teams representing there country stood in silence while it was being played or only a few sung..no big deal..

Then it became vogue..The Australian cricket team for eg not as far back as Steve Waugh hardly ever sung or just hummed along...but they stood there shoulder to shoulder ..did that make them any less proud or Un Australian...don't think so..

True and still true with many athletes today however, none of them made a statement to the media about it.

 

[OzLuke]

where's the respect for the people that do want to sing it?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

where's the respect for the people that do want to sing it?

I have no problem with people wanting sing it, just as I have no issue with those who don't want to. It means different things to different people.

 

[OzLuke]

where's the respect for the people that do want to sing it?

I have no problem with people wanting sing it, just as I have no issue with those who don't want to. It means different things to different people.

I agree.....but those that support the non-singers seem to shame those that do from the conversations I have been having

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

where's the respect for the people that do want to sing it?

I have no problem with people wanting sing it, just as I have no issue with those who don't want to. It means different things to different people.

I agree.....but those that support the non-singers seem to shame those that do from the conversations I have been having

And that's a shame. There just needs to be a mutual respect. No one is necessarily right.