But how do we get good this year?

[watersider]

We're going on about Madge, wanting new players, blaming the referees, going on about our never ending mediocrity, wanting to blow everything up etc....

But what can we do to play better next week?

I think a few have noted that Grant's become a lot less structured in his play, and he needs to pull back a little more and just distribute the ball and be a little more patient.

I've said since Benji was dropped that our best halves combo is Benji-Brooks and I think we need to return to that. if anything, Brooks has gotten worse since dropping to the bench but he's got ability and the best long range kicking game next to benji. I'd like to see Brooks play more of a traditional 5/8 role and have them combine more. They'll be more threatening playing together rather than on opposite sides. But maybe that just doesn't work in the modern game because I don't see it often in other teams.

I'm not sure what to do with Douehi. He tries hard and has pretty good skills but I don't think he has the pace or the sharpness to be that threatening wide running option like paps or Tedddy. I'd like to see him offer a little more support running at least. I don't think we have anyone better to play fullback so he's got to keep on with that role.

In the forwards, I'm fairly happy. You could rest Leuilua, but I don't think we have bench players to warrant it. We need someone to step up on the other edge. Garner's struggling this year but he's our best option.

Defense is an issue because I've said before that we're good defensively until we need to be. The only glaring weakness is when Joey Leuilua comes back in, that side overreads and is vulnerable. We don't have the biggest pack so our defense depends on our defensive line and getting players in tackles. We get exposed when we're a little flat and end up in 1 on 1 tackle situations because we don't match other teams physically. So Madge needs to flog the team a little more to get their fitness up. Doueihi needs to drop behind the defensive line a little more, must be a madge tactic but he's gotten caught out the last few weeks and our defensive line looks vulnerable whether he's there or not.

Last thing is 5th tackle kicking. As inconsistent as they are, I think having brooks and Benji out there improves our last tackle option. Benji needs to be the clear 1st choice in attacking situations.

So, in the end I've actually offered very few ideas. How can we play better with what we have?

 

[cochise]

We're going on about Madge, wanting new players, blaming the referees, going on about our never ending mediocrity, wanting to blow everything up etc....

But what can we do to play better next week?

I think a few have noted that Grant's become a lot less structured in his play, and he needs to pull back a little more and just distribute the ball and be a little more patient.

I've said since Benji was dropped that our best halves combo is Benji-Brooks and I think we need to return to that. if anything, Brooks has gotten worse since dropping to the bench but he's got ability and the best long range kicking game next to benji. I'd like to see Brooks play more of a traditional 5/8 role and have them combine more. They'll be more threatening playing together rather than on opposite sides. But maybe that just doesn't work in the modern game because I don't see it often in other teams.

I'm not sure what to do with Douehi. He tries hard and has pretty good skills but I don't think he has the pace or the sharpness to be that threatening wide running option like paps or Tedddy. I'd like to see him offer a little more support running at least. I don't think we have anyone better to play fullback so he's got to keep on with that role.

In the forwards, I'm fairly happy. You could rest Leuilua, but I don't think we have bench players to warrant it. We need someone to step up on the other edge. Garner's struggling this year but he's our best option.

Defense is an issue because I've said before that we're good defensively until we need to be. The only glaring weakness is when Joey Leuilua comes back in, that side overreads and is vulnerable. We don't have the biggest pack so our defense depends on our defensive line and getting players in tackles. We get exposed when we're a little flat and end up in 1 on 1 tackle situations because we don't match other teams physically. So Madge needs to flog the team a little more to get their fitness up. Doueihi needs to drop behind the defensive line a little more, must be a madge tactic but he's gotten caught out the last few weeks and our defensive line looks vulnerable whether he's there or not.

Last thing is 5th tackle kicking. As inconsistent as they are, I think having brooks and Benji out there improves our last tackle option. Benji needs to be the clear 1st choice in attacking situations.

So, in the end I've actually offered very few ideas. How can we play better with what we have?

Mate decent post and agree with a lot of what you are saying, I'm also not sure if Grant is ready to play 80 mins yet and think it is better if he is given a rest in the middle. I'd prefer Mbye at fullback in attack and Doueihi in the centres, they can swap in defense when they get a chance.

 

[bythebeardofzeus]

Good post. I think we need more support players in motion especially when Grant runs it. I like the idea of Benji @ 7 & Brooks 6 playing off each other rather than one side each. Benji is still a classy ball player & could use someone with Brooks’ pace as a target. Will be good to have Joey back for impact & Packer/Eiso to help strengthen the middle.

You’re right about our lack of size in the middle so our linespeed needs to be consistently aggressive. Get in their face before they get any steam up.

Re. goal kicking, well let’s just try & score closer to the posts.

Hopefully last week was just a hiccup. It’s been a tough month of footy & it’s only going to get tougher so they need to stay focussed.

 

[Blake]

What we are missing is consistent strong performances from the forwards and consistent defensive line speed from the whole team. As someone that manages people, I use a combination of positive and negative reinforcement to change behaviour,

 

[05TIGZZ]

I think Douhei has been one of our better players this year. The last two weeks though he looks busted. I reckon he’s got some injury and not playing 100%.

Grant has not been as effective and with all the media hype I’m sure teams are now ensuring his impact is limited. In saying that he shouldn’t be playing more then 60 minutes.

In terms of halves I would still go Reynolds and brooks, with walters on the bench to cover dummy half for 20 minutes. I love benji but come on, surely our big dollar halves have to eventually step up and earn their pay cheque.

 

[the_third]

First couple of rounds we scored some magic tries - they have dried up
Our line speed is variable week to week
Second phase kills us when we are defending and non existent when attacking
First 16/17 are ok, but an injury kills us
Where are the repeat sets?
Game control. We don’t get it

 

[bbobb]

To my mind it’s pretty simple. We need to build a platform. What was dished upon Saturday was very, very ordinary. One out stuff that was picked easily by the defence. Seemed to me that the game plan was to roll forward up the middle but we didn’t make the yards or dominate the ruck. The halves can’t do much without space aside from throwing up bombs on the last tackle.

 

[TYGA]

The Tigers have been playing well since the Titans game. We backed up the Penrith game with an abysmal performance against Souths and then again against the Warriors after a brutal game against the Eels. Those two performances illustrate we have no chance with our draw.

 

[watersider]

The Tigers have been playing well since the Titans game. We backed up the Penrith game with an abysmal performance against Souths and then again against the Warriors after a brutal game against the Eels. Those two performances illustrate we have no chance with our draw.

Yeah, pretty spot on but there are plenty of complaining threads. How can they play better?

 

[watersider]

To my mind it’s pretty simple. We need to build a platform. What was dished upon Saturday was very, very ordinary. One out stuff that was picked easily by the defence. Seemed to me that the game plan was to roll forward up the middle but we didn’t make the yards or dominate the ruck. The halves can’t do much without space aside from throwing up bombs on the last tackle.

So do we get the forwards running in pairs and force opposition to focus on more than one runner? Whenever we've played decoy runners or encouraged front rowers to pass it seems to muddle their play and lead to errors. I think we generally are okay at metre gaining and momentum, I think what gets us is errors that let teams off the hook. But not sure how to find a solution to that.

 

[cochise]

To my mind it’s pretty simple. We need to build a platform. What was dished upon Saturday was very, very ordinary. One out stuff that was picked easily by the defence. Seemed to me that the game plan was to roll forward up the middle but we didn’t make the yards or dominate the ruck. The halves can’t do much without space aside from throwing up bombs on the last tackle.

So do we get the forwards running in pairs and force opposition to focus on more than one runner? Whenever we've played decoy runners or encouraged front rowers to pass it seems to muddle their play and lead to errors. I think we generally are okay at metre gaining and momentum, I think what gets us is errors that let teams off the hook. But not sure how to find a solution to that.

To be honest, our main issue for years has been momentum, when we have it, we give it up to easy, when we don't have it we struggle to get it back. That hasn't changed this year, we are just defending better so when the game is going against us we are able to fight and stay in the game without gaining control again. That is exactly what happened in the games against the Eels and Panthers.

 

[watersider]

To my mind it’s pretty simple. We need to build a platform. What was dished upon Saturday was very, very ordinary. One out stuff that was picked easily by the defence. Seemed to me that the game plan was to roll forward up the middle but we didn’t make the yards or dominate the ruck. The halves can’t do much without space aside from throwing up bombs on the last tackle.

So do we get the forwards running in pairs and force opposition to focus on more than one runner? Whenever we've played decoy runners or encouraged front rowers to pass it seems to muddle their play and lead to errors. I think we generally are okay at metre gaining and momentum, I think what gets us is errors that let teams off the hook. But not sure how to find a solution to that.

To be honest, our main issue for years has been momentum, when we have it, we give it up to easy, when we don't have it we struggle to get it back. That hasn't changed this year, we are just defending better so when the game is going against us we are able to fight and stay in the game without gaining control again. That is exactly what happened in the games against the Eels and Panthers.

Yes exactly. It's impressive fortitude but ultimately futile.

 

[cochise]

To my mind it’s pretty simple. We need to build a platform. What was dished upon Saturday was very, very ordinary. One out stuff that was picked easily by the defence. Seemed to me that the game plan was to roll forward up the middle but we didn’t make the yards or dominate the ruck. The halves can’t do much without space aside from throwing up bombs on the last tackle.

So do we get the forwards running in pairs and force opposition to focus on more than one runner? Whenever we've played decoy runners or encouraged front rowers to pass it seems to muddle their play and lead to errors. I think we generally are okay at metre gaining and momentum, I think what gets us is errors that let teams off the hook. But not sure how to find a solution to that.

To be honest, our main issue for years has been momentum, when we have it, we give it up to easy, when we don't have it we struggle to get it back. That hasn't changed this year, we are just defending better so when the game is going against us we are able to fight and stay in the game without gaining control again. That is exactly what happened in the games against the Eels and Panthers.

Yes exactly. It's impressive fortitude but ultimately futile.

That is exactly how I felt in both those games, liked the fight but never felt like we were in with a chance of getting it back under control.

 

[Hangonaminute]

Simple
Run harder
Tackle harder
Kick better
Chase better

 

[hank37w]

Resulting in scoring more points than the opposition.

 

[Needaname]

Our defensive efforts for our entire team have improved dramatically when we are defending our goal line. However in the middle third we are still extremely weak.
And we try and compensate for that by holding the players down a bit longer, pushing or twisting after the tackles are made. I’m not saying we aren’t the only ones doing that. The Warriors has quite a few in ruck tactics that slowed our play the ball right down but in most cases they were in complete control of each tackle.
Take the Gutherson incident with packer. That occurred because two front rowers couldn’t get the fullback to the ground to slow the play.
Our first contract is most important.
First guy needs to be high. If we can’t make a tackle in that position they should not be in first grade.
If they are feeling like they are going to be palmed or bumped off, grab the shirt and fall back and let their momentum get them down.
We need to.
A hit smarter (not harder) in defence.
B control the time between when we tackle the player and allow the player to play the ball.
C twist, place hands, pull. Whatever we need to do, don’t do it on the ground - because with the new rules that is a complete tackle.
D in attack, fight to play the ball, wiggle, push, punch, whatever show some urgency to get on your front.

 

[Telltails]

Maguire believes it all comes down to "attitude", particularly in being prepared to aim up in defence. He seems confident that he has the players to be more consistent and successful than they currently are.

But, does he know the reason for the "attitude" that some display? Does he look at himself, for instance, and his man-management methods?

Does he truly understand the dynamics/personalities/character of the individuals that make up the team? By getting the best "attitude" from 17 individuals is how the team will be more successful.

A ranting, screaming and chair kicking half-time pep talk (when they are leading) might change the attitude of "some", but not "all" of them.

So, while we are all having our say on players that are letting us down (and, isn't it weird that we don't agree who they are?), the form of this team sits squarely with the coaching staff and their ability to get the best attitude from each individual. I'm more hopeful than confident that they have the talents to do it.

You could slot any or all coaches into that summation and a thousand other questions and still not have the answers why some weeks they just don't fire.
It is a taxing game physically and mentally with a short turn around - sometimes the mind and body are just not in tune - regardless of what the coach says or how he delivers it.
The best players are those that can consistently produce it every week, and they are a rare breed.

 

[Telltails]

Maguire believes it all comes down to "attitude", particularly in being prepared to aim up in defence. He seems confident that he has the players to be more consistent and successful than they currently are.

But, does he know the reason for the "attitude" that some display? Does he look at himself, for instance, and his man-management methods?

Does he truly understand the dynamics/personalities/character of the individuals that make up the team? By getting the best "attitude" from 17 individuals is how the team will be more successful.

A ranting, screaming and chair kicking half-time pep talk (when they are leading) might change the attitude of "some", but not "all" of them.

So, while we are all having our say on players that are letting us down (and, isn't it weird that we don't agree who they are?), the form of this team sits squarely with the coaching staff and their ability to get the best attitude from each individual. I'm more hopeful than confident that they have the talents to do it.

You could slot any or all coaches into that summation and a thousand other questions and still not have the answers why some weeks they just don't fire.
It is a taxing game physically and mentally with a short turn around - sometimes the mind and body are just not in tune - regardless of what the coach says or how he delivers it.
The best players are those that can consistently produce it every week, and they are a rare breed.

Fair comment, but, what's the answer to the original post ...."how do we get good this year"?

My opinion is that it will require honest reflection and flexibility in the way that the coaching staff do their job.

What's yours? Or can it just not happen?

No easy answer. Still think it comes back to the ability of the squad.
The one obvious difference in our team to others going better is the difference in the ability of the playing group. I don't think Maguire or any coach for that manner can make ordinary squads perform week in.week out and rise to the level of other teams if they are simply not good enough.
There is a reason that the Roosters go after the best players if they can't produce their own it keeps them camped at the top of the comp.
The one thing I can see from this squad which is a motley crue is that Maguire has got them competing every week, some weeks better than others but that will happen with all teams - hence some very ordinary performances from the some of the more fancied teams this week.
I think he his a good coach but his biggest test will be recruiting and retention and that seems to be a club problem and will take more than one man to change that perception - but he will only get so long.