Chee-Kam

[jirskyr]

I posted in the team thread, I think it's about minutes. JT's bench rotation requires a long-minute player in case of injuries, because he cannot leave Halatau on for the whole match.

MCK doesn't have those kind of long minutes in him.

Chee Kam played 55 odd minutes against the Warriors, made good metres and made his tackles. He did well for a bloke you think doesn't have the minutes in him. It's not only that, but Lovett doesn't dominate in any area. Yes he has improved but he is dominated in 95% of tackles, and when he tackles, yes he makes them but doesn't really dominate in those either.

What I am saying is a guess based on what JT has previously said about his bench in press conferences, plus the odd TigerTorch comment.

I personally think MCK has much more to offer than Lovett, and I believe he can only improve his fitness by playing more regularly.

But I am trying to understand the coach's decision / mindset rather than just throwing my arms up in frustration.

Firstly, I doubt very much MCK can play 70+ minutes in the forwards in the case of an injury, which is more likely to occur with the current concussion rule. Lovett has been used for more than 69 minutes in 6/22 games this year.

Specifically in the previous match, MCK played 51 mins according to NRL.com but he spent a good amount of that in the centres (esp when Rankin went to DH), not in the middle. He mad 80 metres from 8 runs, with 19 tackles (2 missed).

Lovett's last game against Penrith was 50 mins, with 77m from 11 runs and 28 tackles (2 missed).

Therefore the offensive output was roughly the same - MCK took better runs but Lovett made more tackles. But again Lovett is usually stuck in the middle and MCK tends to get played out wide or in the centre slot.

There is also the question of whether MCK can provide those 50 minutes every week and how he pulls up, because Lovett has played 22 NRL games with that kind of output, MCK has played 3.

I would still choose MCK because in my opinion you choose the team with the greatest impact possible. But I also understand that there is a very fine line about having toiler-type players in your team who do ugly long-minute work without ever being flashy. Maybe earlier in the year I would support Lovett's inclusion, but I feel that role is better filled by ET (high tackle count) and Edwards (effective tackles), which allows us to select MCK.

 

[cqtiger]

I'm ok with keeping Lovett in the team over Chee-Kam.
Lovett is an improving first grader who has been in the team most of the year and I see no real value in replacing him with another bog average player who has only played a few first grade games this year.

I think it will be a good fight to see who gets the nod next year for a spot. Maybe not either of them?

 

[barra]

Based on his performance against the Warriors, I'd have Chee-Kam for sure. He brought a lot of energy, ran effectively with the ball and was looking to defend with some sting. Pretty mobile for a player his size and obviously offers versatility… what's not to like about that??

He really looked like he was playing for a position and it was great to see that sort of enthusiasm, should be rewarded IMO.

Chee-Kam> Lovett and Sirro.

 

[avocadoontoast]

I don't get the sudden attraction for him. He's yet to cement a fg position at any club he's played. He's a fringe first grader at best.

The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I don't get the sudden attraction for him. He's yet to cement a fg position at any club he's played. He's a fringe first grader at best.

The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..

That's debateable

 

[avocadoontoast]

I don't get the sudden attraction for him. He's yet to cement a fg position at any club he's played. He's a fringe first grader at best.

The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..

That's debateable

After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :smiley:

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I don't get the sudden attraction for him. He's yet to cement a fg position at any club he's played. He's a fringe first grader at best.

The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..

That's debateable

After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :smiley:

What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..

That's debateable

After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :smiley:

What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.

Ok. Whatever you say champ.

 

[851]

The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..

That's debateable

After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :smiley:

What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.

Like Lovett, Rankin and a few others who get picked every week.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

That's debateable

After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :smiley:

What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.

Like Lovett, Rankin and a few others who get picked every week.

They aren't being used as depth players though. MCK is.

 

[avocadoontoast]

After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :smiley:

What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.

Like Lovett, Rankin and a few others who get picked every week.

They aren't being used as depth players though. MCK is.

And that's what's so frightening.

 

[Tigerboy]

Taylor must be stopped. Nah I kid, he's done what he could with CL X Lovett as we both know they're probably well below ability wise to other packs' second rowers, but after a week off for the both of them they might just be our energy in D for this game
Changes will be made next year you better believe it

 

[Tim Sheens]

As I posted elsewhere, MCK is obviously rated, though having only played a few games due to our lack of injuries and probably has only played reserves as he is basically our eighteenth player and has to get match fitness some time. Bottom line is the guy knows his value, having recently extended his WT stay.

Lovett has been doing his job, simple as that, as has a resurgent Edwards. Sirro, well I thought he was going okay for one that was asked to play pretty well eighty each week and was given a shot at redemption last week, but didn't get to state his case after waking up crook and only playing a cameo

 

[Geo]

Like Lovett, Rankin and a few others who get picked every week.

A few…Which few..?

 

[Born_tiger]

Siro > MCK > Lovett

Definitely rate MCK more than Lovett, but Lovett has played majority of games this year and has done nothing wrong to be dropped..

Thing I like about Lovett is that he always takes the tough hit ups, the ones most forwards don't want to take, inside the red zone.

Next year will definitely have to lift his game to get a spot but deserves his spot for the rest of the year..

 

[Tigerboy]

As I posted elsewhere, MCK is obviously rated, though having only played a few games due to our lack of injuries and probably has only played reserves as he is basically our eighteenth player and has to get match fitness some time. Bottom line is the guy knows his value, having recently extended his WT stay.

Lovett has been doing his job, simple as that, as has a resurgent Edwards. Sirro, well I thought he was going okay for one that was asked to play pretty well eighty each week and was given a shot at redemption last week, but didn't get to state his case after waking up crook and only playing a cameo

Who's fault is it that he got sick ?

 

[coopy]

MCK and Lovett are bench players. While noting the fact that a bench player may be asked to replace an injured player, I think a bench player's primary role is to provide impact. For mine, MCK provides more impact.

It's interesting to note that a few posters have mentioned Lovett's development. He has undoubtedly improved however given the same game time (and latitude), I wonder where MCK's game would be right now.

 

[stevied]

Siro MCK Lovett

Definitely rate MCK more than Lovett, but Lovett has played majority of games this year and has done nothing wrong to be dropped..

Thing I like about Lovett is that he always takes the tough hit ups, the ones most forwards don't want to take, inside the red zone.

Next year will definitely have to lift his game to get a spot but deserves his spot for the rest of the year..

 

[stevied]

Deserves his spot because he tries hard in the red zone and that he's been there all year? The fact of the matter is that he gets dominated in virtually every run and every tackle. End of the season or not, MCK is in much better form, has far greater talent and deserves to be promoted. We need to pick the best team available so we can win, not show appreciation to nice guys. I don't get GNR's stubborn attitude and loyalty towards Lovett at all. We want to win and we need to pick the best players. It's this critical stage of the season that justifies the change more than anything!

 

[tigermac88]

Deserves his spot because he tries hard in the red zone and that he's been there all year? The fact of the matter is that he gets dominated in virtually every run and every tackle. End of the season or not, MCK is in much better form, has far greater talent and deserves to be promoted. We need to pick the best team available so we can win, not show appreciation to nice guys. I don't get GNR's stubborn attitude and loyalty towards Lovett at all. We want to win and we need to pick the best players. It's this critical stage of the season that justifies the change more than anything!

100% spot on, well said