Completely unacceptable: ramifications

[gallagher]

The performance was unacceptable. It was expected it will happen every time on dry tracks against the top sides. We don’t have the players. The only way we will get them is through development. The league made a huge mistake with rule changes and not doing anything about funding junior development and a draft spreading talent.

A draft is the best idea. Or two leagues (the division of power, money and talent is that clear!).
Otherwise we are just like the premier league, but without the relegation.

I favour the draft. Make it happen PVL.

I'm not a fan of the draft, but that is just me being an old fogey.


I really see it as the option to even out the teams so that every team gets a crack at good players.

Yeah, I just love watching youngsters come thru the grade at a club, watching them from juniors to rep players. I'd prefer we just get better than need a artificial assistance through a draft.

But it’s not happening mate they just end up at the Roosters

Then we need to get better.

Better or richer?

What comes 1st, the chicken or the egg?

A draft works to assist clubs who don’t have the power or finances, you will always have a big disparity particularly when some clubs are owned by super rich media moguls. If the gap between the haves and have nots keeps growing the NRL is going to become a niche sport followed by a few big corporates and nuffies from Victoria who don’t know the rules.

But fans scream at me all the time
' we're one of the few profitable clubs '.
A draft wouldn't help us, like the salary cap didn't help us.
You can only help yourself

A draft would help us because it would help us keep our own young talent. Would Teddy or Paps have left if they might have ended up a the wooden spoon club rather than roosters/storm?

Won’t happen anyway. Needs the players association to agree

Yeah, possibly in Teddys case. Paps would have been low enough in the draft for any club to land him. In his case the draft wouldn't have stopped us keeping him.

 

[cochise]

The performance was unacceptable. It was expected it will happen every time on dry tracks against the top sides. We don’t have the players. The only way we will get them is through development. The league made a huge mistake with rule changes and not doing anything about funding junior development and a draft spreading talent.

A draft is the best idea. Or two leagues (the division of power, money and talent is that clear!).
Otherwise we are just like the premier league, but without the relegation.

I favour the draft. Make it happen PVL.

I'm not a fan of the draft, but that is just me being an old fogey.


I really see it as the option to even out the teams so that every team gets a crack at good players.

Yeah, I just love watching youngsters come thru the grade at a club, watching them from juniors to rep players. I'd prefer we just get better than need a artificial assistance through a draft.

But it’s not happening mate they just end up at the Roosters

Then we need to get better.

Better or richer?

What comes 1st, the chicken or the egg?

A draft works to assist clubs who don’t have the power or finances, you will always have a big disparity particularly when some clubs are owned by super rich media moguls. If the gap between the haves and have nots keeps growing the NRL is going to become a niche sport followed by a few big corporates and nuffies from Victoria who don’t know the rules.

But fans scream at me all the time
' we're one of the few profitable clubs '.
A draft wouldn't help us, like the salary cap didn't help us.
You can only help yourself

A draft would help us because it would help us keep our own young talent. Would Teddy or Paps have left if they might have ended up a the wooden spoon club rather than roosters/storm?

Won’t happen anyway. Needs the players association to agree

How does it help you keep your own talent?

 

[Harvey]

I think it might be time to consider having our edge defenders switch sides....................................................................................................................again.

 

[tbones10]

I think it might be time to consider having our edge defenders switch sides....................................................................................................................again.

Or at least get them to number up like the under 12's.

 

[jirskyr]

There is such a large step up that’s the issue. Guys are putting up good numbers and winning in reggies, that’s really all they can do. Madge and co have so much invested in some of the “first graders” they can’t afford to drop them. It’s a face saving exercise because the club’s reputation is so weak already. Surely now you just elevate tuki and tuilagi and one of the outside backs and hope one or two of them are up to it.

It's got nothing to do with "saving face". You are compelled to play from your Top 30 and you can't just introduce whomever you please from other sources. You also can't just chuck 5 kids in and expect the team to excel - the team is young enough as it is, and Penrith have already showed what happens when you remove experience from a side.

For example BJ and JTJ - were opportunity year-end signings (not part of long-term planning). They were bought because we were light-on in the backs and there's a general lack of junior talent in the league at the moment. Neither player has worked out except in bursts. But that hasn't been keeping other kids from getting a shot in the backs, if good enough. But there's barely anyone to push BJ or JTJ out.

You look at Souths, once Campbell Graham or Gagai are down, they get into very lean territory very quickly - Braidon Burns, Jaxson Paulo, Taane Milne, Tautai Moga, Steven Marsters.

 

[jirskyr]

I dont understand how sacking Madge will do anything? He is a proven winner with the right cattle. How many of our current squad would make the starting team in any of the top 8 sides? Hardly any if any. Here in lies the problem.

For years WT have only ever attracted has-beens and the odd plodder. Unfortunately we are not yet to see any youth come through that are quality 1st grade material. I really believe WT are doomed, and as an entity, cannot dig themselves out of the hole the club is in. Relocation offers the only hope as I do not think we will survive too much longer whilst praying and witing for the next crop of superstar juniors come through.

Would Flanagan/Morris & Co turn the career of James Roberts around? Could they make Garner a superstar? Could they get the best out of Moses & Brooks? I can't see it unfortunately. The problem is 100% the players. This I'm certain of.

We have very little speed, players that cannot read defence and we are rudderless in attack. No coach in the NRL (including Bellamy) could fix what we disg out on the field week in week out.

We've gone backwards under Maguire. Many of the squad you've described are his selections.

Correct, but who else can he use? We have very little depth in the club.

Our depth is better than a lot of clubs.

Full of average players at best. Why do you think most of our plodders keep their position every week? There sin't anyone pushing to take their place.

Reserve grade is running 2nd, but I actually think that is part of the problem, a lot of players too good for reserve grade but not good enough for 1sts


No one in KOEC is actually pushing for a first grade spot. That's a major issue.

Cos we paid too much for duds so we have to pick them or management looks bad.


Well partly true but the KOEC team doesn't actually inspire you to pick them for NRL. Sure they are doing well in the KOEC but there are no real stand-outs that you would say he has to be in first grade. They all have deficiencies in one area or another.

There is such a large step up that’s the issue. Guys are putting up good numbers and winning in reggies, that’s really all they can do. Madge and co have so much invested in some of the “first graders” they can’t afford to drop them. It’s a face saving exercise because the club’s reputation is so weak already. Surely now you just elevate tuki and tuilagi and one of the outside backs and hope one or two of them are up to it.


Sink or swim time?

Chuck a debut to some blokes

Whats the worst that could happen? We losd bg 60


The worse that can happen is you could put the young blokes in too early and destroy their career. It's not about us losing in this case but bring juniors through when you know they can handle it.

We need a poster put up of Matt Groat, as a reminder.

 

[BAGNF05]

I think it might be time to consider having our edge defenders switch sides....................................................................................................................again.

Your talking about going to Tarsha Gale cup yeah? Makes sense.

 

[jirskyr]

After getting destroyed 66 to 16 it’s now clear as day. He needs to go and Ben Gardiner should be given a go as interim coach asap.

I will point out that Wayne Bennett's side got done 56-12 the other week and 50-nil two weeks before that. I don't really think it's about a single bad result, it's about whether Madge can eventually turn a young team around given another 2 years.

Melbourne have scored more than 40 points 9/15 matches this season.

 

[BAGNF05]

There is such a large step up that’s the issue. Guys are putting up good numbers and winning in reggies, that’s really all they can do. Madge and co have so much invested in some of the “first graders” they can’t afford to drop them. It’s a face saving exercise because the club’s reputation is so weak already. Surely now you just elevate tuki and tuilagi and one of the outside backs and hope one or two of them are up to it.

It's got nothing to do with "saving face". You are compelled to play from your Top 30 and you can't just introduce whomever you please from other sources. You also can't just chuck 5 kids in and expect the team to excel - the team is young enough as it is, and Penrith have already showed what happens when you remove experience from a side.

For example BJ and JTJ - were opportunity year-end signings (not part of long-term planning). They were bought because we were light-on in the backs and there's a general lack of junior talent in the league at the moment. Neither player has worked out except in bursts. But that hasn't been keeping other kids from getting a shot in the backs, if good enough. But there's barely anyone to push BJ or JTJ out.

You look at Souths, once Campbell Graham or Gagai are down, they get into very lean territory very quickly - Braidon Burns, Jaxson Paulo, Taane Milne, Tautai Moga, Steven Marsters.

All those Souths players have adequately filled rolls in some pretty big games. Difference is they’re coming into a team of proven first graders. We signed too many guys who were struggling to make the 17 where they were -expecting some miracle turnaround.

 

[Crucible]

Anybody who seriously suggests that Gardner be given the job, should check out the Reggies performance over the past three weeks.
Clearly some people have zero knowledge of the game. Good evening to all those that fit into this category (I suspect you're all related).

 

[GCfan]

After getting destroyed 66 to 16 it’s now clear as day. He needs to go and Ben Gardiner should be given a go as interim coach asap.

I will point out that Wayne Bennett's side got done 56-12 the other week and 50-nil two weeks before that. I don't really think it's about a single bad result, it's about whether Madge can eventually turn a young team around given another 2 years.

Melbourne have scored more than 40 points 9/15 matches this season.

Sometimes our emotions as Tigers fans take over our ability to recall these type of facts so thanks for the reminder. That said, I want to see a gradual progression in our sides performance each week and we seem to be going backwards with games like last night.

 

[JC99]

The Tigers are coming off a shameful loss but the club is manoeuvring to ensure a better future, writes @BuzzRothfield:

https://t.co/jNyps2m9XJ

Can't read the whole thing if anyone wants to post

 

[mike]

https://t.co/jNyps2m9XJ

Can't read the whole thing if anyone wants to post

Phil Rothfield: How Wests Tigers plan to dig out of current slump

The Tigers are coming off a shameful loss, but the club is manoeuvring to ensure it doesn’t happen again, writes PHIL ROTHFIELD.

NRL: The Melbourne Storm have scored 12 tries and beaten the West Tigers by a 50 point margin in their round 15 clash at the Sunshine Coast Stadium.

Michael Maguire will not be sacked and there are no crisis meetings happening at the Wests Tigers despite one of the most shameful performances in the club’s history over the weekend.

As much as the club is embarrassed and ashamed by the 66-16 defeat to Melbourne Storm on the Sunshine Coast, chairman Lee Hagipantelis insists the coaching role is not even being discussed.

“I’m embarrassed personally and I’m embarrassed for the club and our fans,” Hagipantelis told News Corp.

Stream selected Fox League shows on Kayo Freebies completely free this June including NRL 360, Sunday Night with Matty Johns, Big League Wrap & more. No Credit Card. No-brainer. Register Free Now >

“Look, 66 points is embarrassing. You can’t sugar coat it and no one is shirking away from it. It’s just embarrassing. Effort, attitude and a combination of things.

“It’s beyond my level of rugby league expertise to tell you how and why it happened. But we understand the pain that our fans are feeling.”

The Wests Tigers boss was on the Sunshine Coast for the game. He spoke to Maguire on Sunday morning about the performance.

“We were taught a really tough lesson by the preeminent team in the competition,” he said.

“That’s the standard we aspire to. Given our more recent performances, this result was inexplicable and difficult to accept. The players own it and the club owns it. We’re all hurting.

“We’re striving for consistency from top to bottom. There has erratic form across the competition, not just from us. Melbourne also put 50 on Souths a few weeks ago.”

Saturday night was the equal most points conceded by Wests Tigers. They lost 66-12 to the Eels way back in 2001.

They were so bad in the first half that Maguire refused to address the team at half-time.

There was nothing he could say.

This is a club that has no choice but to play a patient game.

They won’t be winning comps any time soon and the fans have to accept that.

Dare I say it but a ‘five-year-plan’ is what’s needed, just like the Panthers.

They have the longest finals drought in the NRL, having not played in the semis for 10 years.

Yet two great men are soon to arrive in four-time premiership coach Tim Sheens and former halfback champion Brett Kimmorley.

This will fix the area of recruitment where this club has been found wanting for too long.

The days of paying $800,000 for bum players are over.

**Sheens and Kimmorley will reopen the pipeline and pathways from Campbelltown to ensure the next Israel Folau, James Tedesco or Jarryd Hayne is wearing their jersey.**

 

[TillLindemann]

Buzz is being awfully nice to us ever since we signed Kimmorley haha. A welcome change.

 

[JC99]

https://t.co/jNyps2m9XJ

Can't read the whole thing if anyone wants to post


Phil Rothfield: How Wests Tigers plan to dig out of current slump

The Tigers are coming off a shameful loss, but the club is manoeuvring to ensure it doesn’t happen again, writes PHIL ROTHFIELD.

NRL: The Melbourne Storm have scored 12 tries and beaten the West Tigers by a 50 point margin in their round 15 clash at the Sunshine Coast Stadium.

Michael Maguire will not be sacked and there are no crisis meetings happening at the Wests Tigers despite one of the most shameful performances in the club’s history over the weekend.

As much as the club is embarrassed and ashamed by the 66-16 defeat to Melbourne Storm on the Sunshine Coast, chairman Lee Hagipantelis insists the coaching role is not even being discussed.

“I’m embarrassed personally and I’m embarrassed for the club and our fans,” Hagipantelis told News Corp.

Stream selected Fox League shows on Kayo Freebies completely free this June including NRL 360, Sunday Night with Matty Johns, Big League Wrap & more. No Credit Card. No-brainer. Register Free Now >

“Look, 66 points is embarrassing. You can’t sugar coat it and no one is shirking away from it. It’s just embarrassing. Effort, attitude and a combination of things.

“It’s beyond my level of rugby league expertise to tell you how and why it happened. But we understand the pain that our fans are feeling.”

The Wests Tigers boss was on the Sunshine Coast for the game. He spoke to Maguire on Sunday morning about the performance.

“We were taught a really tough lesson by the preeminent team in the competition,” he said.

“That’s the standard we aspire to. Given our more recent performances, this result was inexplicable and difficult to accept. The players own it and the club owns it. We’re all hurting.

“We’re striving for consistency from top to bottom. There has erratic form across the competition, not just from us. Melbourne also put 50 on Souths a few weeks ago.”

Saturday night was the equal most points conceded by Wests Tigers. They lost 66-12 to the Eels way back in 2001.

They were so bad in the first half that Maguire refused to address the team at half-time.

There was nothing he could say.

This is a club that has no choice but to play a patient game.

They won’t be winning comps any time soon and the fans have to accept that.

Dare I say it but a ‘five-year-plan’ is what’s needed, just like the Panthers.

They have the longest finals drought in the NRL, having not played in the semis for 10 years.

Yet two great men are soon to arrive in four-time premiership coach Tim Sheens and former halfback champion Brett Kimmorley.

This will fix the area of recruitment where this club has been found wanting for too long.

The days of paying $800,000 for bum players are over.

**Sheens and Kimmorley will reopen the pipeline and pathways from Campbelltown to ensure the next Israel Folau, James Tedesco or Jarryd Hayne is wearing their jersey.**

Nothing we don't already know then, thanks for the post

 

[MarySt]

i just hope this event acts as a real line in the sand moment for the club.

do they choose to continue being mediocre, a team so down on self-belief they just choose to play without an effort, or do they use it as a turning point

watching the bulldogs in the first half vs the eels i was jealous of their grit and determination in defense. they got up in the eels faces and smothered them. unfortunately their attack was so bad they couldnt capitalise on their hard work...

i feel if we only had that same grit in defense, with proper leadership during tough times, we could start to turn the tide

 

[Tiger5150]

The performance was unacceptable. It was expected it will happen every time on dry tracks against the top sides. We don’t have the players. The only way we will get them is through development. The league made a huge mistake with rule changes and not doing anything about funding junior development and a draft spreading talent.

A draft is the best idea. Or two leagues (the division of power, money and talent is that clear!).
Otherwise we are just like the premier league, but without the relegation.

I favour the draft. Make it happen PVL.

I'm not a fan of the draft, but that is just me being an old fogey.


I really see it as the option to even out the teams so that every team gets a crack at good players.

Yeah, I just love watching youngsters come thru the grade at a club, watching them from juniors to rep players. I'd prefer we just get better than need a artificial assistance through a draft.

But it’s not happening mate they just end up at the Roosters

Then we need to get better.

Better or richer?

What comes 1st, the chicken or the egg?

A draft works to assist clubs who don’t have the power or finances, you will always have a big disparity particularly when some clubs are owned by super rich media moguls. If the gap between the haves and have nots keeps growing the NRL is going to become a niche sport followed by a few big corporates and nuffies from Victoria who don’t know the rules.

But fans scream at me all the time
' we're one of the few profitable clubs '.
A draft wouldn't help us, like the salary cap didn't help us.
You can only help yourself

A draft would help us because it would help us keep our own young talent. Would Teddy or Paps have left if they might have ended up a the wooden spoon club rather than roosters/storm?

Won’t happen anyway. Needs the players association to agree

How does it help you keep your own talent?

Because if one of you players is off contract, he can negotiate to stay at your club, but if he leaves he doesnt get to pick where he goes, he goes into the draft and could end up at a club he isnt keen on.

 

[Geo]

I think it might be time to consider having our edge defenders switch sides....................................................................................................................again.

Lol and the winger/centre combos

 

[jirskyr]

There is such a large step up that’s the issue. Guys are putting up good numbers and winning in reggies, that’s really all they can do. Madge and co have so much invested in some of the “first graders” they can’t afford to drop them. It’s a face saving exercise because the club’s reputation is so weak already. Surely now you just elevate tuki and tuilagi and one of the outside backs and hope one or two of them are up to it.

It's got nothing to do with "saving face". You are compelled to play from your Top 30 and you can't just introduce whomever you please from other sources. You also can't just chuck 5 kids in and expect the team to excel - the team is young enough as it is, and Penrith have already showed what happens when you remove experience from a side.

For example BJ and JTJ - were opportunity year-end signings (not part of long-term planning). They were bought because we were light-on in the backs and there's a general lack of junior talent in the league at the moment. Neither player has worked out except in bursts. But that hasn't been keeping other kids from getting a shot in the backs, if good enough. But there's barely anyone to push BJ or JTJ out.

You look at Souths, once Campbell Graham or Gagai are down, they get into very lean territory very quickly - Braidon Burns, Jaxson Paulo, Taane Milne, Tautai Moga, Steven Marsters.

All those Souths players have adequately filled rolls in some pretty big games. Difference is they’re coming into a team of proven first graders. We signed too many guys who were struggling to make the 17 where they were -expecting some miracle turnaround.

Not the night Storm beat them 50-blot

I agree Souths have a better platform to introduce nuffies or juniors. I also don't think anyone at Tigers expected a miracle turnaround with the recruitment. I think they knew Blore, Laurie, Stefano were long-term projects.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

After getting destroyed 66 to 16 it’s now clear as day. He needs to go and Ben Gardiner should be given a go as interim coach asap.

I will point out that Wayne Bennett's side got done 56-12 the other week and 50-nil two weeks before that. I don't really think it's about a single bad result, it's about whether Madge can eventually turn a young team around given another 2 years.

Melbourne have scored more than 40 points 9/15 matches this season.

Sadly Jirskyr, I think the game has now passed Madge by. I was really excited when he came onboard, an actual premiership winning coach, I was thinking he would turn things around for us really quickly, but in all honesty after 2 years he seems clueless as to how to improve this side.

The fact that there seems to be no real structure to any of our plays, or particularly to our defensive line is a real concern, imo. I mean what is going on at training, what is he teaching them? Or do they all just have short term memory loss on game day and can’t remember anything that he coached them during the week?

Unfortunately, with all the rule changes and mucking around with stuff over the past few years, the game has changed so much and not for the better, imo. I just think Madge hasn’t kept up with it and his coaching methods are a tad outdated. It’s showing in our lacklustre performances on the field each week, either that or the players are just not listening.