Coronavirus Outbreak

[cochise]

You’re completely missing my point. Absolutely nobody needs to die or become ill from covid or a faulty vaccine whatsoever. But the only way to achieve that is by stopping international travel until there is a safer vaccination available. International travel isn’t a necessity if it saves lives. It sounds like you don’t care about those that’ll lose their lives. You said yourself “some people are going to die from it, it sucks but it happens”. Truth be told, they don’t have to die at all so I see that sort of comment as just completely humanely wrong.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/provisional-mortality-statistics/latest-release

People die. As for your faulty vaccine that is complete nonsense. We have a vaccine. Go and get vaccinated.

Don't think that I don't care about people dying. I've lost my brother and it hurts every day.

We have to be rational and you are not viewing this situation rationally.

Of course people die. This is about avoiding unnecessary deaths.

It is faulty, it’s not nonsense. It’s proven to have serious side affects and has killed people. Im not about to stick something in my arm because some bloke on a forum said so or an government that has failed time and time again thinks it’s the best option. I’ve drawn my own opinion and I’ll back it.

You say I’m not rational, but I could argue that your thought process and opinion is selfish and irrational.

I’ve raised a point that avoids all deaths and illness related to covid. You’ve come up with an argument that is basically saying people will die, that’s life, that’s reality.

I’m telling you that doesn’t need to be the case.

And what information have you used to form that opinion?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

With the higher number of infectious in community numbers I am starting to wonder now if people are honestly jack of the government. Are they at the point where they are refusing to take a personal economic hit because the state didn't do what was needed when it was necessary in locking down the Eastern Suburbs?

It is easy for me to comment from my position as I can work from home, have everything I need and am in an area with no recorded cases.

It would be much harder for those living week to week being told that they cannot leave for work and have to take leave, or if they are casual, stay home without pay and try to apply for government support. JobKeeper would likely still not be enough for many, while the areas that started this outbreak (who are the demographic who could handle a hard lockdown,) were flogged with a wet lettuce leaf and not locked down properly and facilitated the spread.

I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home too, but the current situation is unsustainable for most people in my neighbourhood.

The bloke who lives next door to me is a good example. Single Dad who works as a plumber and needs to cover his mortgage, school fees for his kids and normal living expenses.

Dipping into a few weeks of annual leave will get him through but the weekly payment from the government won't.

Not to downplay the potential devastation of covid, but most would take the extremely low chance of death or illness over the very high risk of not being able to pay bills.

If it were me in his shoes I would be probably doing the same. He would be worrying about making sure his kids have a roof and food on the table. It is only natural, we are still animals and still have the survival instinct.

 

[old_man_tiger]

It's a shame that so many people are having trouble facing reality.

It is hard for all of us right now, especially us "sheep" who do the right thing to try and keep our fellow citizens safe, even the misguided ones who freely create their own definitions so they can create straw men.

To the sceptics here, who think they have outsmarted 95% of the world despite having 0 qualifications, no prior experience and largely constructing arguments based on drivel from the web:

Fear is driving you to avoid reality. I hope you realise that before your "opinion" kills you or a loved one. Roll up your sleeve, get a jab, move on.

Any other interaction with you is a waste of everyone's time. It is hard, the rest of us have accepted that no options are ideal. Stop looking for a magical fantasy theory. This isn't lotto, there is no prize for being 1 in a million, only a coffin or urn for you or someone who has the bad luck to know you.

I don't know how you got down voted for this. It's a problem in the world today. Not everyone will die. You just increase your chances of bad stuff happening to you and your loved ones if you don't get vaccinated. That is reality.

I don't think it matters though. It's a personal choice.

I just had my second dose.

Hey mate, I couldn't care less about the downvotes. I expect nothing less when people argue a nonsense position. If anything I think it reinforces my point that engagement on the internet is pointless and
I reject the premise that I have to accept all views as equally valid.

People need to go and talk to their Dr and stop overestimating their knowledge and expertise. I am not calling these people stupid because at some level we all delude ourselves and I have empathy for that. I hope they can find a way around this and help Australia get back on track to a positive, sustainable position.

By the way, I posted this after reading a comment on NSW health's tweet with the numbers today that said "let it rip" or some other nonsense. So this is not a commentary on WTF or any one poster. It is a comment on a broader trend. You can let it rip once enough jabs have gone in arms.

 

[tigertye]

In the meantime though, I’ll just sit at home, unable to support my family with absolutely zero business support financially from the government and ponder how I’m going to keep my family fed thanks to this latest lockdown that never had to happen.

Is this true ? My son is getting over $300 into his account each week and the most he has earned as a 17 yo would be say $50 per week.

I also don't mean to be a real pain in the backside but why not save money.

There is currently zero business support grants for new businesses whatsoever in NSW. You need previous years tax records as evidence of business downturn. The $600 disaster payment is an individual grant, not a business one and won’t cover the start of our weekly expenses.

My savings isn’t really your concern, but I invested around $80k of savings into equipment needed for my business which left us pretty dry. Money I’d spent years saving in order to get the business going. A case of having to spend money to make money. I’ve just had to fork out the large majority of our remaining savings of around $10k yesterday because my dog had to have emergency surgery that our insurance didn’t cover. On top of that I’ve got a $700k mortgage which is around 3k a month, no other loans luckily, personal bills, business bills, cost of living etc. it adds up.

I personally just find it shocking that there is literally nothing for NSW new small businesses. It just goes to show the holes in the policies. We’ll survive but it’s taking it’s toll that’s for sure.

 

[old_man_tiger]

In the meantime though, I’ll just sit at home, unable to support my family with absolutely zero business support financially from the government and ponder how I’m going to keep my family fed thanks to this latest lockdown that never had to happen.

Is this true ? My son is getting over $300 into his account each week and the most he has earned as a 17 yo would be say $50 per week.

I also don't mean to be a real pain in the backside but why not save money.

There is currently zero business support grants for new businesses whatsoever in NSW. You need previous years tax records as evidence of business downturn. The $600 disaster payment is an individual grant, not a business one and won’t cover the start of our weekly expenses.

My savings isn’t really your concern, but I invested around $80k of savings into equipment needed for my business which left us pretty dry. Money I’d spent years saving in order to get the business going. A case of having to spend money to make money. I’ve just had to fork out the large majority of our remaining savings of around $10k yesterday because my dog had to have emergency surgery that our insurance didn’t cover. On top of that I’ve got a $700k mortgage which is around 3k a month, no other loans luckily, personal bills, business bills, cost of living etc. it adds up.

I personally just find it shocking that there is literally nothing for NSW new small businesses. It just goes to show the holes in the policies. We’ll survive but it’s taking it’s toll that’s for sure.

I disagree with you on many covid issues. On the unevenness of economic relief I agree 100%. I can't help but think that if the government was more even handed in their response from day 1, a lot of people wouldn't be so desperate to find advocate poorly considered solutions.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

In the meantime though, I’ll just sit at home, unable to support my family with absolutely zero business support financially from the government and ponder how I’m going to keep my family fed thanks to this latest lockdown that never had to happen.

Is this true ? My son is getting over $300 into his account each week and the most he has earned as a 17 yo would be say $50 per week.

I also don't mean to be a real pain in the backside but why not save money.

There is currently zero business support grants for new businesses whatsoever in NSW. You need previous years tax records as evidence of business downturn. The $600 disaster payment is an individual grant, not a business one and won’t cover the start of our weekly expenses.

My savings isn’t really your concern, but I invested around $80k of savings into equipment needed for my business which left us pretty dry. Money I’d spent years saving in order to get the business going. A case of having to spend money to make money. I’ve just had to fork out the large majority of our remaining savings of around $10k yesterday because my dog had to have emergency surgery that our insurance didn’t cover. On top of that I’ve got a $700k mortgage which is around 3k a month, no other loans luckily, personal bills, business bills, cost of living etc. it adds up.

I personally just find it shocking that there is literally nothing for NSW new small businesses. It just goes to show the holes in the policies. We’ll survive but it’s taking it’s toll that’s for sure.

You all have to suck eggs while Amazon, eBay, Woolworths Group and Wesfarmers virtually 100% of retail business in NSW.

That's why I don't even get mad at the small business owners who have been opening during the 'half cocked' part of the lockdown period. There's no safety net for them, most retail businesses employee a large amoung of casual labour, so it is in the SBO's and employee's interests to turn up to work.

This outbreak has been mismanaged from day 1, and now a lot of the country is hurting as a result, including the two largest cities which are the economic powerhouses of the nation as they are both in lockdown.

N.B. I hope everything works out for you mate.

 

[Devon Head]

Anothony Mundine 'fighting the power' by going to Bunnings without a mask and refusing to check in. Who would have thought a man of such profound intelligence would have boarded the covid conspiracy theory train.


Love the sarcasm

He has good form in refusing to sign in at venues. I work in corporate security and visitors into the building are required to sign in via an iPad and print a visitor sticker. He visited the building twice within a few weeks a while back to meet with the CEO and refused to sign in both times. His manager pulled the 'Don't you know who he is' card both times.

Found the guy to be extremely arrogant and he refused to speak to me personally. He turned his back to me and only spoke to his manager who in turn relayed his messages of disgust.

 

[Papacito]

In the meantime though, I’ll just sit at home, unable to support my family with absolutely zero business support financially from the government and ponder how I’m going to keep my family fed thanks to this latest lockdown that never had to happen.

Is this true ? My son is getting over $300 into his account each week and the most he has earned as a 17 yo would be say $50 per week.

I also don't mean to be a real pain in the backside but why not save money.

There is currently zero business support grants for new businesses whatsoever in NSW. You need previous years tax records as evidence of business downturn. The $600 disaster payment is an individual grant, not a business one and won’t cover the start of our weekly expenses.

My savings isn’t really your concern, but I invested around $80k of savings into equipment needed for my business which left us pretty dry. Money I’d spent years saving in order to get the business going. A case of having to spend money to make money. I’ve just had to fork out the large majority of our remaining savings of around $10k yesterday because my dog had to have emergency surgery that our insurance didn’t cover. On top of that I’ve got a $700k mortgage which is around 3k a month, no other loans luckily, personal bills, business bills, cost of living etc. it adds up.

I personally just find it shocking that there is literally nothing for NSW new small businesses. It just goes to show the holes in the policies. We’ll survive but it’s taking it’s toll that’s for sure.

You all have to suck eggs while Amazon, eBay, Woolworths Group and Wesfarmers virtually 100% of retail business in NSW.

That's why I don't even get mad at the small business owners who have been opening during the 'half cocked' part of the lockdown period. There's no safety net for them, most retail businesses employee a large amoung of casual labour, so it is in the SBO's and employee's interests to turn up to work.

This outbreak has been mismanaged from day 1, and now a lot of the country is hurting as a result, including the two largest cities which are the economic powerhouses of the nation as they are both in lockdown.

Not to mention that the economic leaches like Amazon, Netflix, Foxtel and Uber do really well during lockdowns while also paying virtually zero tax.

 

[tigertye]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

 

[earl]

There is currently zero business support grants for new businesses whatsoever in NSW. You need previous years tax records as evidence of business downturn. The $600 disaster payment is an individual grant, not a business one and won’t cover the start of our weekly expenses.

I get this and I get it's tough for you.

I though 100% support the governments decision. No money should be given out to any business that has not paid tax for a certain number of years. They should only be compensated to a level that corresponds to the P&L statement.

I can't support a government who would give money away in other circumstances.

I'd also suggest that if anyone started a business last year you need a lot of money set aside to survive. It's just good business practice.

I know I'm being tough and I know it's tough on you. I get it. I feel you. I wish you the best.

 

[cochise]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

It wasn't an emergency approval, we have had provisional approvals in Australia since 2018.

Closing the border while every other country is opening back up will have dramatic consequences for this country for a very long time.

 

[earl]

You can let it rip once enough jabs have gone in arms.

This is the only option. I'd change it a little though. We offer it to everyone. If people don't want to take it that is their call.

 

[cochise]

You can let it rip once enough jabs have gone in arms.

This is the only option. I'd change it a little though. We offer it to everyone. If people don't want to take it that is their call.

The issue with that is there is a decent % of the population that through no fault of their own are unable to be vaccinated. That is why having a high percentage of the population vaccinated is important because it also protects the vulnerable. That is my biggest issue with anti vaxxers in general.

 

[tigertye]

I’m telling you that doesn’t need to be the case.

Read the posts above about people having too work. We cannot close our country down completely for years. The effects would be devastating to us.

It's like you can't see that there are consequences to your actions.

I'm trying to find the approach forward with the least consequences to society.

Your approach has significant costs to society. It is unworkable.

You also aren't getting that people die all the time. They die from the flu. They die from eating McDonalds and steaks and ice cream. Do we ban that ? Do we all stay in a bubble so we don't get the flu ?

On top of that we have vaccines available.

It's like there are massive massive holes in your argument but you can't see them. I shouldn't respond to this anymore. If you can't see the flaws in your reasoning please raise these points to your local politician. Maybe I am seeing flaws that aren't there and you've got this right.

I think there’s massive holes in your argument. Ones that are going to end up killing people unnecessarily.

You could stop international travellers for a long period of time and you’d put a plan in place to mitigate the losses from tourism.

You’d probably find it would make Australia a stronger nation and give jobs back to our countrymen.

You’ve got your ideas mate and I’ve got mine. I’m trying to keep this constructive and share thoughts because I believe ideas and thoughts shared are a great way to deal with common issues at hand. Not turn this into a slanging match because there’s always going to be people who don’t share the same mentality on how things should work.

 

[Guest]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

I daresay it would be deemed unconstitutional to prevent Australian citizens from returning home.

 

[tigertye]

There is currently zero business support grants for new businesses whatsoever in NSW. You need previous years tax records as evidence of business downturn. The $600 disaster payment is an individual grant, not a business one and won’t cover the start of our weekly expenses.

I get this and I get it's tough for you.

I though 100% support the governments decision. No money should be given out to any business that has not paid tax for a certain number of years. They should only be compensated to a level that corresponds to the P&L statement.

I can't support a government who would give money away in other circumstances.

I'd also suggest that if anyone started a business last year you need a lot of money set aside to survive. It's just good business practice.

I know I'm being tough and I know it's tough on you. I get it. I feel you. I wish you the best.

Id be fine if I was allowed to work. I want to work. If I’m not allowed to work because of a government decision I should be compensated fairly as I take total loss for that decision. I’ve paid tax every year of my life as an employee and never taken a handout.

If I wanted a bank loan, the bank isn’t going to care if I had zero income because of a government decision. They look at the numbers and the money isn’t there. That’s business and the government has made a business decision for me that’s outside my control to reduce my earning to zero.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

The clot risks from contraceptives are higher than that of the AZ vaccine. Clot risk is 1 in 1,000 women, versus 1 in 250,000 from the AZ vaccine.

Complications from Warfarin are well known. Brain bleeds, gastrointestinal bleeding, bloody urine, hepatic failure, stomach ulcers. I've had gastrointestinal bleeding and blood in my urine previously.

Not sure on the figures regarding flu vaccines etc. Would have to do some searching for that.

I do however also agree that opening international borders is ludicrous at this point.

 

[tigertye]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

I daresay it would be deemed unconstitutional to prevent Australian citizens from returning home.

I originally said give them the opportunity to be flown home but the choice ultimately lies with them and the country they reside in.

 

[earl]

There is currently zero business support grants for new businesses whatsoever in NSW. You need previous years tax records as evidence of business downturn. The $600 disaster payment is an individual grant, not a business one and won’t cover the start of our weekly expenses.

I get this and I get it's tough for you.

I though 100% support the governments decision. No money should be given out to any business that has not paid tax for a certain number of years. They should only be compensated to a level that corresponds to the P&L statement.

I can't support a government who would give money away in other circumstances.

I'd also suggest that if anyone started a business last year you need a lot of money set aside to survive. It's just good business practice.

I know I'm being tough and I know it's tough on you. I get it. I feel you. I wish you the best.

Id be fine if I was allowed to work. I want to work. If I’m not allowed to work because of a government decision I should be compensated fairly as I take total loss for that decision. I’ve paid tax every year of my life as an employee and never taken a handout.

If I wanted a bank loan, the bank isn’t going to care if I had zero income because of a government decision. They look at the numbers and the money isn’t there. That’s business and the government has made a business decision for me that’s outside my control to reduce my earning to zero.

I get it. I honestly feel sorry for you. I reckon it's crap. I think people like you contribute a lot more than people like me who just accept an easy wage. I understand banking decisions.

It's just to me handouts are always going to lead to scams and I couldn't administer policies that target the right people.

It's not a personal comment towards you at all. I understand your frustration as well.

 

[tigertye]

LOCK AUSTRALIA DOWN. Forget about the vaccinations and wait until we have a safe and approved vaccination until we consider reopening the country. The government pushing this lab rat vaccination agenda is an absolute disgrace.

Back to reality.

1. You can't shut the country down completely.
2. We vaccinate. We let it rip. People will die but it will save the vast majority of people. The ones who choose not to vaccinate will suffer from this much more than they need too but that is the cost of letting people make their own decisions.

It would have been good to have some special quarantine facility but the reality is we've kept it until control up until the home run and it's only the delta strain that is really giving it to us. I think by Christmas we will probably be in the let it rip phase.

Unfortunately, it’s this mentality of what reality should be is what I shake my head at. You’re literally saying you’re accepting people to die from this when it doesn’t have to be that way at all.

It actually does. You don't have a choice. Do we stop everyone from talking to each other to stop people dying from the flu ? Do we still drive cars ? Do we still fly in planes ?

Reality. You can't avoid it. People die. It sucks.

Get vaccinated. Don't eat too much meat and junk food. Exercise. Don't smoke. Put the odds in your favor.

That is all you get in this life.

“You don’t have a choice” We all have choices and a voice. People flock to much around an accepted version of what reality is. Look at the protesting overseas, people have had enough of their “reality”

The fact is though, Australia can stay safe from this virus for years if we have to. Simply by closing our borders and only reopening them once there is a safe and approved vaccine.

We’re basically doing it now, but just a band aid version.

There is no way we could stay locked down for years. It would be a disaster. You also didn't state what we should do about the flu and poor diet and smoking and cars and planes and millions of other things.

It isn’t a disaster already? What you see in the UK, India, US, etc isn’t a disaster? Australia will be no different if we keep the current path. A vaccine with side affects isn’t the answer either.

I didn’t mention anything about what else you said because it was just stupid and nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

Just answer me this? Is Australia impacted more by closing the international border permanently until there’s an approved and safe vaccine, which secured the safety of the majority or by vaccinating as many who choose and letting the virus in completely or living with a lockdown style nation for the next few decades?

That’s the 2 options I see Australia living with?

***Every*** medicine comes with side effects. Contraceptive pills have a risk of stroke. Warfarin can cause liver problems, Sotalol increases your LDL cholesterol. Got a headache? Don't take paracetemol, they can cause liver complications and create bleed risks. Everyday people take medication without questioning the risks of it.

The flu vaccination has side effects. Tetanus shots, triple antigen boosters, whooping cough vaccines. Why is it all of a sudden a problem with the COVID vaccines? The medical experts are all still saying get vaccinated. There is obviously overwhelming evidence to support that being vaccinated is overwhelmingly better than contracting COVID without any immunity, especially now that the virus has mutated to the point where it is no longer just picking off the infirm and elderly. It's making younger people sick. They are ending up in the ICU.

The general scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe. We have someone on this forum whose specialty is in drug analysis and they are saying there's nothing to indicate that the vaccines are any more dangerous than any other vaccine.

What are the stats for severe illness and death from the ones you’ve mentioned? That’s why people are questioning the covid vaccine compared to others. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any stretch. But I just don’t think the current options are worth the risk and an temporary emergency approval doesn’t cut it.

My argument here isn’t necessarily about a vaccine. My argument is that we should protect our country (even if it means completely blocking overseas/return travel) until proper testing on a vaccine is completed. Then by all means encourage the jab and reopen the country. I’m just astounded by the impatience of people to have international borders reopened. IMO there’s just alternative ways of managing this virus that overall will save more Australians whether it be from covid itself, or potential side affects from the current vaccinations available.

In regards to the general scientific consensus, the facts of the large number of adverse and deadly reactions goes against that. So we can disagree both ways on that.

The clot risks from contraceptives are higher than that of the AZ vaccine. Clot risk is 1 in 1,000 women, versus 1 in 250,000 from the AZ vaccine.

Complications from Warfarin are well known. Brain bleeds, gastrointestinal bleeding, bloody urine, hepatic failure, stomach ulcers. I've had gastrointestinal bleeding and blood in my urine previously.

Not sure on the figures regarding flu vaccines etc. Would have to do some searching for that.

I do however also agree that opening international borders is ludicrous at this point.

There’s been over a million adverse reactions to the vaccines already and 12000 deaths in a 6 month period in the states with the majority linked to vaccines.