David Nofoaluma #164

[Tim Sheens]

Nofoaluma is off contract at the end of 2021 and the Tigers have tabled a three-year deal for their star winger which would make him one of the best-paid outside backs in the game.

This is a concern...

Yeah I wonder what the exact figure is.... it will hurt us in the final year of his deal most likely

It is a worry. Good news re Madge though.

I’m happy both are extending for sure. With that veteran allowance, if he’s on say $600k (just an example) and we use the $200k allowance, that means he’ll only take $400k from our cap?

That is not how it works.

How does it work then? If it’s an allowance surely it saves us cap Space in some way?

Provides the opportunity for additional cap space, so I suppose if a club qualifies and can afford the extra dollars they can utilise it.

Wondering if Brooks meets the requirements as well now, as he debuted in 2013?

 

[cochise]

Nofoaluma is off contract at the end of 2021 and the Tigers have tabled a three-year deal for their star winger which would make him one of the best-paid outside backs in the game.

This is a concern...

Yeah I wonder what the exact figure is.... it will hurt us in the final year of his deal most likely

It is a worry. Good news re Madge though.

I’m happy both are extending for sure. With that veteran allowance, if he’s on say $600k (just an example) and we use the $200k allowance, that means he’ll only take $400k from our cap?

That is not how it works.

How does it work then? If it’s an allowance surely it saves us cap Space in some way?

It doesn't all of a sudden make a player worth more money, we get $200k in total if we have any players that have been in our top 30 squad for 8 years, any players that has been in top 30 squads at any clubs for 10 years or any players that were contracted by the club for 2 years prior to their 1st NRL contract until they turn 22.

I am not 100% sure but I believe that $200k to be a total across the club and not for each individual player.

 

[Holden]

Idk, I see the club making super good decisions recently. I dont think they would be splashing cash on Nofa unnecessarily at this point and backflipping on all the good work they have done. The media is reporting he would be one of the best paid outside back sure, but there really isnt that many well paid outside backs at this point. JAC only just got an upgrade and only for one year to keep him happy, other than him I think tupou is the only one at good cash.

Lets see how this plays out, wests have always had a clubman to rally behind, whether it was was Farah, Lawrence, Benji, or the brief period where it was the infamous big 4. Right now next year and also 2022 with so much changing I would like to see us retain a popular face. Also highly doubt the big guys getting paid to do this for a living (Haritgan, Pascoe, Madge and etc) would even bother offerring something like that if they didnt think it was worthwhile.

Also on a completely different note, I know our defence has sucked most of 2020 but I feel that wasnt always the case? I mean I rewatched the first panthers vs tigers game this season and we were phenomenal compared to the amount of ball we had, same with one of our souths game.

And most of 2019 we had super decent defence, feels like we went from on extreme to another maybe, and strugglign to find some kind of middle ground

EDIT: Brooks meets criteria but it might not be used on him as his already lcked and loaded after a recent resigning in the last 2 years

 

[851]

I really think we can’t afford Nofa, I love the guy for what he brings but I think he’s too expensive if he’s asking more than $325k. I really do.
**Nofa hasn’t played rep footy or finals**. Take a look at the 2 wingers chosen for the blues ahead of Nofa? Both on much less than he’s asking. JAC $375k and Tupou $220k. Our admin is on track now to deliver a well balanced cap. The horror of 2017 is well behind us now . Let’s leave it there..please?

By that logic Brooks should be gone as well.

If Brooks is on $550k then yeh, I reckon he’s on the upper end of his true value imo.

It’s so frustrating that our CEO signed off on some contracts. Mbye at $950k, and Josh at $850k . We’re going to be paying $350 of his for next season by the sound of it.

I heard that number doesn't start with a 5 for Brooks it's a higher number, so yes he is way over payed for what he is delivering, in saying that I have said many times, the whole team will improve with Benji gone, Brooks being a big benefactor

So madge kept selecting bqm even though he knew the whole team would improve without him? Wow madge hampered us last year! Kept selecting him even though he made us a worse team...

Yes smarty pants, I believe that, the whole side suffered. In defence the whole right side suffered covering for Benji, the forwards suffered because of the extra work load due to 7 tackle sets he gave away and poor 6th tackle options.
In attack he cramped the centre and winger, he over called Brooks, he took very low percentage options, so yes the whole team will improve not having Benji in and around it.
And finally yes I say Madge picked Benji on the run home because he didn’t want to end his time at the club in the grandstand. In other words Madge didn’t have the balls to drop him a second time

 

[cochise]

Idk, I see the club making super good decisions recently. I dont think they would be splashing cash on Nofa unnecessarily at this point and backflipping on all the good work they have done. The media is reporting he would be one of the best paid outside back sure, but there really isnt that many well paid outside backs at this point. JAC only just got an upgrade and only for one year to keep him happy, other than him I think tupou is the only one at good cash.

Lets see how this plays out, wests have always had a clubman to rally behind, whether it was was Farah, Lawrence, Benji, or the brief period where it was the infamous big 4. Right now next year and also 2022 with so much changing I would like to see us retain a popular face. Also highly doubt the big guys getting paid to do this for a living (Haritgan, Pascoe, Madge and etc) would even bother offerring something like that if they didnt think it was worthwhile.

Also on a completely different note, I know our defence has sucked most of 2020 but I feel that wasnt always the case? I mean I rewatched the first panthers vs tigers game this season and we were phenomenal compared to the amount of ball we had, same with one of our souths game.

And most of 2019 we had super decent defence, feels like we went from on extreme to another maybe, and strugglign to find some kind of middle ground

EDIT: Brooks meets criteria but it might not be used on him as his already lcked and loaded after a recent resigning in the last 2 years

I have complete confidence that Nofa will be offered a fair deal, if he takes it fantastic, if not then that is his decision and there is not a lot more anyone can do.

 

[Holden]

I really think we can’t afford Nofa, I love the guy for what he brings but I think he’s too expensive if he’s asking more than $325k. I really do.
**Nofa hasn’t played rep footy or finals**. Take a look at the 2 wingers chosen for the blues ahead of Nofa? Both on much less than he’s asking. JAC $375k and Tupou $220k. Our admin is on track now to deliver a well balanced cap. The horror of 2017 is well behind us now . Let’s leave it there..please?

By that logic Brooks should be gone as well.

If Brooks is on $550k then yeh, I reckon he’s on the upper end of his true value imo.

It’s so frustrating that our CEO signed off on some contracts. Mbye at $950k, and Josh at $850k . We’re going to be paying $350 of his for next season by the sound of it.

I heard that number doesn't start with a 5 for Brooks it's a higher number, so yes he is way over payed for what he is delivering, in saying that I have said many times, the whole team will improve with Benji gone, Brooks being a big benefactor

So madge kept selecting bqm even though he knew the whole team would improve without him? Wow madge hampered us last year! Kept selecting him even though he made us a worse team...


Yes smarty pants, I believe that, the whole side suffered. In defence the whole right side suffered covering for Benji, the forwards suffered because of the extra work load due to 7 tackle sets he gave away and poor 6th tackle options.
In attack he cramped the centre and winger, he over called Brooks, he took very low percentage options, so yes the whole team will improve not having Benji in and around it.
And finally yes I say Madge picked Benji on the run home because he didn’t want to end his time at the club in the grandstand. In other words Madge didn’t have the balls to drop him a second time

As much as I love Benji, I believe that too, think madge was a bit too hesitant to leave him out of the team for too long, shame they could have used a good full season playing without him

 

[Holden]

Idk, I see the club making super good decisions recently. I dont think they would be splashing cash on Nofa unnecessarily at this point and backflipping on all the good work they have done. The media is reporting he would be one of the best paid outside back sure, but there really isnt that many well paid outside backs at this point. JAC only just got an upgrade and only for one year to keep him happy, other than him I think tupou is the only one at good cash.

Lets see how this plays out, wests have always had a clubman to rally behind, whether it was was Farah, Lawrence, Benji, or the brief period where it was the infamous big 4. Right now next year and also 2022 with so much changing I would like to see us retain a popular face. Also highly doubt the big guys getting paid to do this for a living (Haritgan, Pascoe, Madge and etc) would even bother offerring something like that if they didnt think it was worthwhile.

Also on a completely different note, I know our defence has sucked most of 2020 but I feel that wasnt always the case? I mean I rewatched the first panthers vs tigers game this season and we were phenomenal compared to the amount of ball we had, same with one of our souths game.

And most of 2019 we had super decent defence, feels like we went from on extreme to another maybe, and strugglign to find some kind of middle ground

EDIT: Brooks meets criteria but it might not be used on him as his already lcked and loaded after a recent resigning in the last 2 years

I have complete confidence that Nofa will be offered a fair deal, if he takes it fantastic, if not then that is his decision and there is not a lot more anyone can do.

Absolutely! Placing full trust and love into our recruitment and retention this year, if nofa doesnt want the new deal we should definitely not negotiate more than that to keep the brand image u p

 

[rustycage]

I also liked the comments from Lee. Nofa is important to us, we value what we he brings to the club. And of course his agent will try to do what's best for Nofa.

But I only like Nofa because he's a WT player, and yes he has to 'look after himself', but the team comes first. If Nofa wants to get every cent out of us he can, then forget it, he has the wrong attitude, go elsewhere. $450k imo is more than fair, for* his playing ability, and what he brings to the team being a long-standing player. If he wants to try and bleed more out of us, which will hurt the team as it's less money we can spend elsewhere, then personally I would wish him well when he leaves.

I agree that if he was with another club we wouldn't be looking twice at him, but he is a winger at our club and like every single other player will try to squeeze as much money as he can which is his right. I like what he offers to our team despite some questionable defense.
The club is also in their right to put their valuation on what he offers, and if he signs with us, great....but if he gets more coin elsewhere good luck to him. With the time he has spent at the club we should know what his top price would be, and if another club pays overs then that is their problem.

Not look at him twice? He was the winger of the year this season. Its the complete opposite, for some reason a lot of our fans take him for granted.

**> I’d love to see a poll of other teams fans and whether they’d want him at their club. I would wager the results would be a resounding yes.**

I reckon the answer would be meh, maybe for the right money

 

[TYGA]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

 

[Geo]

Very smart from the Club to infer Nofoaluma's value to Wests Tigers..

 

[Holden]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

 

[TYGA]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

We are offering 400k I spoke to a few people today in the know. It’s fair tbh but I wouldn’t lose him over 50k. Hopefully split the difference as it’s peanuts after tax. Nofa is more important to the team than many understand.

 

[rustycage]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

We are offering 400k I spoke to a few people today in the know. It’s fair tbh but I wouldn’t lose him over 50k. Hopefully split the difference as it’s peanuts after tax. Nofa is more important to the team than many understand.

I thought $375k. I can live with $400k. These $500k + suggestions are crazy.

 

[cochise]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

It depends though, maybe we are already at the upper end of our evaluation on him, maybe we have already gone past his onfield worth because of his other off field attributes and then that $50k could be $100k over his true value.

 

[earl]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

We are offering 400k I spoke to a few people today in the know. It’s fair tbh but I wouldn’t lose him over 50k. Hopefully split the difference as it’s peanuts after tax. Nofa is more important to the team than many understand.

I thought $375k. I can live with $400k. These $500k + suggestions are crazy.

This is my take as well. I doubt we are making him take a hair cut which means that is probably a touch above what he is earning now. So maybe he is on 300k-350k.

 

[Holden]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

It depends though, maybe we are already at the upper end of our evaluation on him, maybe we have already gone past his onfield worth because of his other off field attributes and then that $50k could be $100k over his true value.

Maybe! that's actually quite a smart statement.

this following one is just my opinnion please noone jump down my throat about it lol >

I'm a bit wary about losing the Dally M winger of the year in the same 12-24 months where we publically lost out on LM and JAC, got called out by Benji, had the eggshells and losing the "locker room" incident. I guess i'm kind of just thinking that it might go beyond the value of nofa to retain him for future signings??? Idk just a thought

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

We are offering 400k I spoke to a few people today in the know. It’s fair tbh but I wouldn’t lose him over 50k. Hopefully split the difference as it’s peanuts after tax. Nofa is more important to the team than many understand.

That's good, assuming 400k from salary cap and undisclosed in re to veterans, but realistically, there really isnt much people that are eligible to pull from that at the tigers right now, unless somehow Hartigans subisdising brooksies Salary but I just don't see that happening.

 

[cochise]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

It depends though, maybe we are already at the upper end of our evaluation on him, maybe we have already gone past his onfield worth because of his other off field attributes and then that $50k could be $100k over his true value.

Maybe! that's actually quite a smart statement.

this following one is just my opinnion please noone jump down my throat about it lol >

I'm a bit wary about losing the Dally M winger of the year in the same 12-24 months where we publically lost out on LM and JAC, got called out by Benji, had the eggshells and losing the "locker room" incident. I guess i'm kind of just thinking that it might go beyond the value of nofa to retain him for future signings??? Idk just a thought

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

We are offering 400k I spoke to a few people today in the know. It’s fair tbh but I wouldn’t lose him over 50k. Hopefully split the difference as it’s peanuts after tax. Nofa is more important to the team than many understand.

That's good, assuming 400k from salary cap and undisclosed in re to veterans, but realistically, there really isnt much people that are eligible to pull from that at the tigers right now, unless somehow Hartigans subisdising brooksies Salary but I just don't see that happening.

Tamou qualifies

 

[Holden]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

It depends though, maybe we are already at the upper end of our evaluation on him, maybe we have already gone past his onfield worth because of his other off field attributes and then that $50k could be $100k over his true value.

Maybe! that's actually quite a smart statement.

this following one is just my opinnion please noone jump down my throat about it lol >

I'm a bit wary about losing the Dally M winger of the year in the same 12-24 months where we publically lost out on LM and JAC, got called out by Benji, had the eggshells and losing the "locker room" incident. I guess i'm kind of just thinking that it might go beyond the value of nofa to retain him for future signings??? Idk just a thought

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

We are offering 400k I spoke to a few people today in the know. It’s fair tbh but I wouldn’t lose him over 50k. Hopefully split the difference as it’s peanuts after tax. Nofa is more important to the team than many understand.

That's good, assuming 400k from salary cap and undisclosed in re to veterans, but realistically, there really isnt much people that are eligible to pull from that at the tigers right now, unless somehow Hartigans subisdising brooksies Salary but I just don't see that happening.

Tamou qualifies

Oh he does! But i doubt his benefitting from it with his price tag already low and declining (mmind you I highly rate the guy)

 

[cochise]

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

It depends though, maybe we are already at the upper end of our evaluation on him, maybe we have already gone past his onfield worth because of his other off field attributes and then that $50k could be $100k over his true value.

Maybe! that's actually quite a smart statement.

this following one is just my opinnion please noone jump down my throat about it lol >

I'm a bit wary about losing the Dally M winger of the year in the same 12-24 months where we publically lost out on LM and JAC, got called out by Benji, had the eggshells and losing the "locker room" incident. I guess i'm kind of just thinking that it might go beyond the value of nofa to retain him for future signings??? Idk just a thought

Nofalopoulos the legend has to be signed. It will be the most bone headed move if we play hardball for small change. The club has to get its act together if you don’t sign Nofa no player of any stature will go near the joint. Every player looks at how clubs treat their long term players.

Hard negotiation is fair and tigers should be applauded lose him for 50k then it’s ridiculous.

Agree if its like a 50k debacle we should just pay, it will like you said go towards showing other players we can retain talent. But we gotta be a bit more wary about going overboard, I just think in this case there is little to no chance of that actually being able to happen due to his eligibility of the veterans discount, and the fact that we dont have too many retained juniours, mainly pouched, and that brooks isnt really going to affect this even if he is eligible, his not the one coming off contract looking for a pay bump.

We are offering 400k I spoke to a few people today in the know. It’s fair tbh but I wouldn’t lose him over 50k. Hopefully split the difference as it’s peanuts after tax. Nofa is more important to the team than many understand.

That's good, assuming 400k from salary cap and undisclosed in re to veterans, but realistically, there really isnt much people that are eligible to pull from that at the tigers right now, unless somehow Hartigans subisdising brooksies Salary but I just don't see that happening.

Tamou qualifies

Oh he does! But i doubt his benefitting from it with his price tag already low and declining (mmind you I highly rate the guy)

Its not about benefiting the players, its about benefiting the entire squad

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Nofoaluma is off contract at the end of 2021 and the Tigers have tabled a three-year deal for their star winger which would make him one of the best-paid outside backs in the game.

This is a concern...

nobody can blow a war chest quiet like the tigers
go to it boys