Electric bills

Odessa said:
Australia exports gas to Japan very cheap it's apparently it's of national security for Japan Australian gas

So the Japanese buy it much cheaper then Australians buy it for but the Japanese have been greedy they order more then enough then on sell it around the region



I was watching a show a few months ago and a man made a gas stove running on water just a normal looking stove some how he split the water from the gas inside


It reminds me of the guy in America that ran his car on water in the 1970's and after he made it on 60 minutes died two weeks later but that's happened a few times who ever runs cars on water dies


Also the guys who invent things to do with free electricity they all die
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  • Before LNG exports, domestic gas in eastern Australia was significantly cheaper (around $3.63/GJ in 2014-15).
  • After LNG projects, domestic prices surged, reaching over $12/GJ and even $50/GJ during the 2022 energy crisis, while export prices remained high, costing businesses and households billions.
  • I realise there may be some quid pro quo going on here, but why do Australian families need to fund it? Why can’t Australian households and busines get the same lower price?
 
diedpretty said:
Did u watch the whole video or is your attehtion span only a couple of minutes - she waffled on about her mother being diagnosed with covid and how she denied any vaccine to be given to her mother against all medical advice including her sister which almost broke the family. So yea - anti vaxxer - i don't expect to see an apology from a moron like you though.
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Having it emblazoned on her pink t-shirt saved me from listening to a single word, as it already clearly broadcast that everything to come was almost certainly drivel.
 
twentyforty said:
  • Before LNG exports, domestic gas in eastern Australia was significantly cheaper (around $3.63/GJ in 2014-15).
  • After LNG projects, domestic prices surged, reaching over $12/GJ and even $50/GJ during the 2022 energy crisis, while export prices remained high, costing businesses and households billions.
  • I realise there may be some quid pro quo going on here, but why do Australian families need to fund it? Why can’t Australian households and busines get the same lower price?
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I certainly agree with your ultimate sentence, though the disparity pales in significance compared to the LNG deal with China. A 25 year deal signed back in the early 2000's by the coalition government that was widely derided at the time, even by some of their own. Not only because of the supposed ridiculously low (in confidence) price, moreover, the absence of any ratchet clauses at all.

Those LNG exports started several years later when Howard/Costello were still in power, as I recall their fanfare at the time. Which means that those tankers were sailing from the north-west shelf in early 2007 at the absolute latest and still will be for years to come, for peanuts.

Even worse, during that period, the same people acted in an abhorrent manner to rip off the extremely poor fledgling nation of East Timor of it's maritime boundaries and resources, even using aid programs as cover for their operations.
 
LeichhardtTiger said:
Nothing to see here GregJim

https://twitter.com/x/status/2014583112139784269
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Some of these arguments are either straight up false or at the very least grossly overstated when it comes to modern wind turbines.
However in the video you posted the first thing I noted was they were referring specifically to first generation turbines. So the video when it comes to shelf life, land fill and toxins is accurate...for first generation turbines. They have improved a long way since then and will continue to improve.
Be it first generation or modern turbines, no-one is claiming they don't have their own waste or ecological issues. The question is how does this stack up against coal factoring cost and energy produced / waste produced.
There has been a few further issues raised in the thread that I largely agree with in regards to us selling off assets and purchasing foreign made parts for renewables. But when it comes to which energy is cleaner there is absolutely no argument and in most cases renewables will likely be cheaper going forward as well.
 
twentyforty said:
Sincere question.
Do wind turbines need diesel generators to get the blades moving?
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No. Well not really would be more accurate. They are used to power the electrical control systems in the event of a blackout. Some turbines controls run from the very grid they power and some are designed to run straight from power from the turbine itself. But these control systems need to be activated before the energy produced can be harnessed, not to start the actual blade movement.
 
gregjm87 said:
Some of these arguments are either straight up false or at the very least grossly overstated when it comes to modern wind turbines.
However in the video you posted the first thing I noted was they were referring specifically to first generation turbines. So the video when it comes to shelf life, land fill and toxins is accurate...for first generation turbines. They have improved a long way since then and will continue to improve.
Be it first generation or modern turbines, no-one is claiming they don't have their own waste or ecological issues. The question is how does this stack up against coal factoring cost and energy produced / waste produced.
There has been a few further issues raised in the thread that I largely agree with in regards to us selling off assets and purchasing foreign made parts for renewables. But when it comes to which energy is cleaner there is absolutely no argument and in most cases renewables will likely be cheaper going forward as well
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What part of the Concrete base is renewable? Landfill to cover the obsolete blades? You still have to make more fresh concrete to use as a base along with all the new steel to hold it in place for each replacement windmill in a new stable location, which are all made with base load coal / gas energy. But yeah, "renewables" are so cheap. Meanwhile, in the real world Copper producers and other rare earth miners will be running out of the available materials due to the increased transition to EVs and other "renewable" tech. So when it comes to supply & demand that can only mean one thing - Prices are gonna skyrocket.
Cheaper? No one ever said that Chris Bowen had a brain - ever!
 
LeichhardtTiger said:
What part of the Concrete base is renewable? Landfill to cover the obsolete blades? You still have to make more fresh concrete to use as a base along with all the new steel to hold it in place for each replacement windmill in a new stable location, which are all made with base load coal / gas energy. But yeah, "renewables" are so cheap. Meanwhile, in the real world Copper producers and other rare earth miners will be running out of the available materials due to the increased transition to EVs and other "renewable" tech. So when it comes to supply & demand that can only mean one thing - Prices are gonna skyrocket.
Cheaper? No one ever said that Chris Bowen had a brain - ever!
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The concrete bases are not renewable but with appropriate design they can be reused by building new turbines on the bases of previously decommissioned turbines. Most current blades are not recyclable. But new blades are being designed out of recyclable materials such as Biopolymers thermoplastic resins.
Renewables will likely be cheaper as tech improves and in some cases already is. But more importantly once established there is no fuel costs.
Yes building more new turbines or solar panels is an expensive operation. But so is building more coal power stations, which also have a shelf life like the renewables plus the ongoing fuel costs.
Rising copper costs amongst other raw materials is a concern both now and going forward. Most projections still suggest renewables will be the cheaper option long term.
 
Last count China has 1700 coal power plants and are bringing online another 100 this year

Indian has around 1300 and have plans to build and 300 online in the next 5 years


What Australia has 2 or is it 3 and they are cutting one this year it's just crazy this green scam
 
gregjm87 said:
The concrete bases are not renewable but with appropriate design they can be reused by building new turbines on the bases of previously decommissioned turbines. Most current blades are not recyclable. But new blades are being designed out of recyclable materials such as Biopolymers thermoplastic resins.
Renewables will likely be cheaper as tech improves and in some cases already is. But more importantly once established there is no fuel costs.
Yes building more new turbines or solar panels is an expensive operation. But so is building more coal power stations, which also have a shelf life like the renewables plus the ongoing fuel costs.
Rising copper costs amongst other raw materials is a concern both now and going forward. Most projections still suggest renewables will be the cheaper option long term.
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I think used concrete is being crushed and recycled for various uses already.
Considering these windmills are 80% recyclable?
Does Australia decommission them and do the recycling or stack them into 40 footers off to China for reconstruction and eventual returning to Australia as new and we deal with the 20% ?
The life expectancy of a windmill is apparently the same as a solar panel? 20 years. So does that mean at some time in the future we’ll be sending them to China as fast as they’re sending them to us? Or are there plans to create our own recycling industry?
 
twentyforty said:
I think used concrete is being crushed and recycled for various uses already.
Considering these windmills are 80% recyclable?
Does Australia decommission them and do the recycling or stack them into 40 footers off to China for reconstruction and eventual returning to Australia as new and we deal with the 20% ?
The life expectancy of a windmill is apparently the same as a solar panel? 20 years. So does that mean at some time in the future we’ll be sending them to China as fast as they’re sending them to us? Or are there plans to create our own recycling industry?
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The bases are significantly thicker with a lot more steel reinforcement than your standard steel rebar, hence it cannot be crushed. This is why reuse is being investigated and proven possible, but only with appropriate design. If Governments aren't doing the work now to plan ahead then the concerns about excess concrete are somewhat justified.
Modern wind turbines should last closer to 40 years than 20, typically somewhere between 30 and 40. As for the plans for where and how they will go about recycling them, I don't know. Knowing our Gov I'd assume recycled into raw materials here that are then sent overseas for manufacturing and bought back but I don't know if they have any plans in place at this stage or what those plans are. I'm working overnight but I'll speak to the Mrs tomorrow and see if she knows. Shes actually a scientist (all be it a different field) but her knowledge is far greater than my rudimentary understanding. She's also far more passionate about the subject so has looked into it further than I ever have.
 
Odessa said:
Mr Loon to you

But what part was wrong ?
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Let us start with basic mathematics on power station numbers, as I write whilst looking north out of my cathedral front window. Through which I no longer see the pair of stacks from the Lake Munmorah power station that were felled back in 2017, having already been half decommissioned a decade prior and shut down in 2012.

What remains can be seen as a patch of dirt just south of the still operational 4 gas turbine Colongra power station on basic Google Earth (a screenshot of which I am not able to attach for some reason), that was built to partially make up for the failing stations shortfall. It is now replaced by the Waratah Super Battery.

If one opens it they will look upwards and see the Vales Point and then Erarang coal fired power stations, respectively some 7 and 18 kilometres north on the shores of Lake Macquarie. Basically, I can walk up the hill and see the stacks of a pair of your "What Australia has 2 or is it 3" operating right now.

Also, China only has about two thirds, and India less than a quarter of your other declarations. Please ask yourself if your ideology is clouding your reality.
 
Odessa said:
The Australian government are in bed with the banks and the green scam

Next time I vote it's One Nation honestly they could not do a worst job

Interest rates going up again bad times ahead
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Not a crack at you but something tells me you have never voted labor in your life Odessa.

Luckily we will never have to find what Hansen could do to the country. Thank god for preferential voting.
 
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